What do we still need? Post Summer 2015 edition.

Invictus said:
You know what - one of the benefits if we appoint Mourinho will be access to his stash of ex-players, a lot of whom swear allegiance to him even now. One particular player will see his contract expire at the end of the season, and despite turning 34 quite recently, his overall level of play (average of ~1 goal per match) still puts him among the Top 5 strikers in Europe (was league top scorer and POTY under José too). One might argue that we need young players, but building a team takes a bit of time, and it's always wise to surround youngsters with world class players they can learn from - instead of having zero leaders (especially on offense) and too many spring chickens that are hella inconsistent. We could always get younger players, but in terms of where we are right now - this particular player's presence might allow Martial to develop slowly at wider positions (Mourinho has experience playing Eto'o wide too even though he was a natural striker), and then Martial can take over at #9 in a couple of seasons.

Bit of a short term deal, but it just might be perfect for the club in terms of timing, and we'll get a very productive, experienced striker whose overall link-up play, and holdup ability is still very good; and I'm pretty sure the fans would absolutely love him. It'll be a Bosman transfer so no transfer fee, but we might have to part with a decent chunk of wages on top of a minor sign-on bonus. Would make a lot of sense, Barcelona signed his international team-mate at 33 too - and he was quite important for them for a couple of seasons (won 2 La Liga titles, and helped change the complexion of the 2006 European Cup final after coming on as a substitute), after which he joined United on a short term loan deal and helped with the progression of Ronaldo and Rooney (who were about Martial's age then), and he helped us win the league after a gap of 3 seasons.

We would do well with a couple of players of his stature because our team lacks character aside from Fußballgott, and characters don't come much grander than Ibrahimović. You put him in a Mourinho team, and he'll be ready to take on the world because he genuinely believes there's no one better than him (said so himself), which is what we need for a squad that gives up too easily. Really think he could be a catalyst for something substantial, even towards the end of his career. Comparisons will be made with Falcao in terms of not signing a world class striker from Ligue 1 because we've been burnt before, but Zlatan isn't recovering from a major injury right now, and for the past 3-4 seasons people have been waiting for him to become poor with age - but he just keeps going. Even this season he was supposed to regress heavily, but he's been arguably the best player for a Top 4 team in Europe. We could do much worse in fairness, atleast for a 2-3 year deal.
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I like Ibra but I watch Ligue 1 quite often and playing for PSG is like playing for the Harlem Globetrotters in a league filled with journeymen and prospects, he'd find it a lot harder getting kicked, elbowed and pressed here than he does sauntering around in Ligue 1 with all the time in the world to do as he wants.

If you were suggesting bringing him in to come off the bench then yeah, it might work, but he'll be 35 just 6 weeks into next season, Schweinsteiger is struggling here at 31, the PL is not the right league for old players coming in from a football culture that is totally different in tempo and style, it takes too much time to adapt and adapting is not something suited to a 35 year old IMO.

Did Mourinho have any time for Morata at Real?
 
Do not sign Mané ever, like never ever ever. The same people who fought with me in the Mané thread also fought with me when they wanted Benteke in the summer for £30+ million because he was earth-shattering for Villa, and look how that worked out (you know who you are). I'd rather Santi Mina than Mané, not as good right now but he has incredible potential and maybe Gary will do us a solid an make his life miserable at Valencia - forcing him to hand in a transfer request. Mané is a basic Premier League footballer, yes he has a decent skillset and a bit of pace, but you shouldn't rebuild your team with players like that.
 
Devil may care said:
I like Ibra but I watch Ligue 1 quite often and playing for PSG is like playing for the Harlem Globetrotters in a league filled with journeymen and prospects, he'd find it a lot harder getting kicked, elbowed and pressed here than he does sauntering around in Ligue 1 with all the time in the world to do as he wants.

If you were suggesting bringing him in to come off the bench then yeah, it might work, but he'll be 35 just 6 weeks into next season, Schweinsteiger is struggling here at 31, the PL is not the right league for old players coming in from a football culture that is totally different in tempo and style, it takes too much time to adapt and adapting is not something suited to a 35 year old IMO.

Did Mourinho have any time for Morata at Real?
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I personally feel that the physicality or athletic level of the Ligue 1 is up there with probably any other league in the world. Zlatan seems to be in acres of space because he has the ability to create space for himself, and if you carefully watch the way he moves it's really clever - something we don't often see with some of our forwards because they don't know how to lose a man. You watch the Madrid game for example, and even against a Benitez managed team, he was open really frequently, dropping deep, going wide and just trying to influence things in the final third.

I'm not suggesting him as a bench option, but as the #9 starter for the next 2 seasons. You get Zlatan and maybe Greizmann for the forward 3, and between them and Martial the quality of the starting attack improves significantly. 2 years down the line, part ways with Zlatan and promote Martial to #9. This is the kind of methodical planning that can go a long way instead of chucking money at strikers who will hinder Martial's progression when he's ready to be the #9.

I just think that sometimes timing is everything in football, and we're crying out for not just a player like Zlatan, but a personality and ego like Zlatan in terms of him being a galvanizing force. And I still think he can be a 25+ goal per season player, even in England, and his experience cannot be matched by a lot of others, and his name and aura will not be matched by others. It makes sense on a lot of levels, and he has a history with José to boot. Which I think is a very important factor because with new managers, ideally you should sign 1 or 2 players to be 'their guys' - a lot of managers do this. In the age of player power, Zlatan can be huge for the dressing room.

As for Morata, Mourinho gave him a lot of sub appearances in his last season at the club when Morata was 19, and he was the one who gave him his debut after picking him out as a 17 year old from Castilla. But Morata felt he needed more starting football (which he wasn't going to get in the presence of Benzema) under Ancelotti, which is why he joined Juventus. Infact, Morata still thinks he owes a lot to José:

"Mourinho could have chosen some other player, but he chose me and I'll be grateful to him for the rest of my life," the Spaniard
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http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/alvaro-mor...ourinho-handing-him-real-madrid-debut-1493664

José helped both Morata and Varane (sidelined Pepe too which led to a falling out because he felt Mourinho was undermining him) at Madrid even with all the circus, and the likes of Balotelli and Santon at Internazionale (IIRC a lot of people were calling him the new Bergomi or Maldini when José at at Inter), so he does help young players if they're good, and that's a decent record for 2 clubs that don't have a recent history of promoting young players. But he's expected to just promote everyone, and there are always these names or those names that are brought up because they feel aggrieved.
 
Invictus said:
Do not sign Mané ever, like never ever ever. The same people who fought with me in the Mané thread also fought with me when they wanted Benteke in the summer for £30+ million because he was earth-shattering for Villa, and look how that worked out (you know who you are). I'd rather Santi Mina than Mané, not as good right now but he has incredible potential and maybe Gary will do us a solid an make his life miserable at Valencia - forcing him to hand in a transfer request. Mané is a basic Premier League footballer, yes he has a decent skillset and a bit of pace, but you shouldn't rebuild your team with players like that.
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If we went as young as that I'd go for Sane from Shalke, I've watched him quite a few times recently and he just has a great mix of technique, skill and speed, and I honestly feel he'd be a goal scoring wide forward once it all clicks for him.

Invictus said:
I personally feel that the physicality or athletic level of the Ligue 1 is up there with probably any other league in the world. Zlatan seems to be in acres of space because he has the ability to create space for himself, and if you carefully watch the way he moves it's really clever - something we don't often see with some of our forwards because they don't know how to lose a man. You watch the Madrid game for example, and even against a Benitez managed team, he was open really frequently, dropping deep, going wide and just trying to influence things in the final third.

I'm not suggesting him as a bench option, but as the #9 starter for the next 2 seasons. You get Zlatan and maybe Greizmann for the forward 3, and between them and Martial the quality of the starting attack improves significantly. 2 years down the line, part ways with Zlatan and promote Martial to #9. This is the kind of methodical planning that can go a long way instead of chucking money at strikers who will hinder Martial's progression when he's ready to be the #9.

I just think that sometimes timing is everything in football, and we're crying out for not just a player like Zlatan, but a personality and ego like Zlatan in terms of him being a galvanizing force. And I still think he can be a 25+ goal per season player, even in England, and his experience cannot be matched by a lot of others, and his name and aura will not be matched by others. It makes sense on a lot of levels, and he has a history with José to boot. Which I think is a very important factor because with new managers, ideally you should sign 1 or 2 players to be 'their guys' - a lot of managers do this. In the age of player power, Zlatan can be huge for the dressing room.
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I have to be honest mate, I simply can't agree, I'd say the Bundesliga is more physical than Ligue 1 but in truth nothing prepares a player for this league, almost every player to come here has said that, it's a huge change and takes a much greater toll on the body than the other leagues, it may not be better but it's a league that takes the most out of players IMO.

If Ibra was 30 rather than 35 I'd be with you, but I just don't think this is the league for old players anymore, and certainly not ones that have never played in it before. I am also not seeing Martial as a font man that would suit Mourinho, if you look at his ideal strikers he likes the target man, a forward pivot, Martial will play from wide under him IMO, only if we got Pep or Klopp would we get a proper fluid front 3 in the Barca mold IMO, as no matter how much Martial learns I don't think he'll ever want to play the #9 role the way guys like Jose and LvG like it played, he's got too much free spirit in his game.

As for Morata, Mourinho gave him a lot of sub appearances in his last season at the club when Morata was 19, and he was the one who gave him his debut after picking him out as a 17 year old from Castilla. But Morata felt he needed more starting football (which he wasn't going to get in the presence of Benzema) under Ancelotti, which is why he joined Juventus. Infact, Morata still thinks he owes a lot to José:


http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/alvaro-mor...ourinho-handing-him-real-madrid-debut-1493664

José helped both Morata and Varane (sidelined Pepe too which led to a falling out because he felt Mourinho was undermining him) at Madrid even with all the circus, and the likes of Balotelli and Santon at Internazionale (IIRC a lot of people were calling him the new Bergomi or Maldini when José at at Inter), so he does help young players if they're good, and that's a decent record for 2 clubs that don't have a recent history of promoting young players. But he's expected to just promote everyone, and there are always these names or those names that are brought up because they feel aggrieved.
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Hmmmm, so Morata would be an option perhaps? I mean he doesn't seem to be in favour with Allegri at Juve, and if he has a good relationship with Mourinho we could build something pretty special with him, Martial and Griezmann IMO.

On a side note do you think Mourinho would have an interest in Neves?
 
Devil may care said:
I have to be honest mate, I simply can't agree, I'd say the Bundesliga is more physical than Ligue 1 but in truth nothing prepares a player for this league, almost every player to come here has said that, it's a huge change and takes a much greater toll on the body than the other leagues, it may not be better but it's a league that takes the most out of players IMO.

If Ibra was 30 rather than 35 I'd be with you, but I just don't think this is the league for old players anymore, and certainly not ones that have never played in it before. I am also not seeing Martial as a font man that would suit Mourinho, if you look at his ideal strikers he likes the target man, a forward pivot, Martial will play from wide under him IMO, only if we got Pep or Klopp would we get a proper fluid front 3 in the Barca mold IMO, as no matter how much Martial learns I don't think he'll ever want to play the #9 role the way guys like Jose and LvG like it played, he's got too much free spirit in his game.
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I personally feel that the whole physicality premise of the Premier League is overplayed at times, and a player like Ibrahimović will be perfectly fine. How many defenders in the league are bigger and stronger than Zlatan, and how will they wear him down? The man is maybe an inch shorter than Per Mertesacker (one of the tallest players in the Premier League) and atleast a stone heavier. I mean just look at him here against Ronaldo:
Zlatan-Ronaldo-Action-Images-Alex-Morton.jpg
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The rules that apply to a lot of other players do not apply to Ibrahimović because he's a genetic marvel, and shouldn't be judged by average standards. I'd be really surprised if he's not playing at a world class level even 2 years from now, and you could not ask for a better striker for that period than him because the ones that are better or at the same level (Suárez, Lewandowski, Agüero, Aubameyang) will not be available. We need someone who can score maybe 25 goals in a season, we need someone who can lead the attack, we need someone who will allow Martial to develop, and we need someone with character to lift our team. Zlatan fits the bill on almost every front, and he would be superb on a 2-3 year deal by which time Martial should be about to enter his prime if he develops well, and he will be able to take on the lead role.

I don't agree with the stereotypical argument that Mourinho won't play a #9 like Martial either because he played Benny McCarthy, Derlei, Carlos Alberto at Porto who are all about as tall or even slightly shorter than Martial. He doesn't just need a target like Drogba up front, he can and does use fluid 9½ forwards - like Benzema who is only slightly taller than Martial and played wide at Lyon when he was younger. Even Milito wasn't all that strong, what made him really good at Zaragoza, Genoa and Internazionale was his movement and mental acuity more than physical targetman traits. Martial would be fine as a #9 under Mourinho, the problem right now is maybe we are putting too much pressure on him. With Zlatan, all the pressure goes away because Zlatan attracts half of the attention of opposition defenders towards him, and even this season, he has been one of the top players in Europe. That will not change for the next 2 years atleast.
 
Invictus said:
I personally feel that the whole physicality premise of the Premier League is overplayed at times, and a player like Ibrahimović will be perfectly fine. How many defenders in the league are bigger and stronger than Zlatan, and how will they wear him down? The man is maybe an inch shorter than Per Mertesacker (one of the tallest players in the Premier League) and atleast a stone heavier. I mean just look at him here against Ronaldo:
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I know he's a big guy but so are Drogba and Dzeko and it took both a season to get used to this league. The physicality issue isn't so much about your size, as about your body getting used to getting hit a lot more and about your limbs getting used to the frenetic pace the PL moves at.

The rules that apply to a lot of other players do not apply to Ibrahimović because he's a genetic marvel, and shouldn't be judged by average standards. I'd be really surprised if he's not playing at a world class level even 2 years from now, and you could not ask for a better striker for that period than him because the ones that are better or at the same level (Suárez, Lewandowski, Agüero, Aubameyang) will not be available. We need someone who can score maybe 25 goals in a season, we need someone who can lead the attack, we need someone who will allow Martial to develop, and we need someone with character to lift our team. Zlatan fits the bill on almost every front, and he would be superb on a 2-3 year deal by which time Martial should be about to enter his prime if he develops well, and he will be able to take on the lead role.
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That's fair enough mate but I just don't see it, he might get another 2 years in La Liga for Real, but the PL in my view is not cut out for a guy of 35 who has never played in it before. I can see the train of thought you are following, I just don't think things ever work as smoothly as that.

I don't agree with the stereotypical argument that Mourinho won't play a #9 like Martial either because he played Benny McCarthy, Derlei, Carlos Alberto at Porto who are all about as tall or even slightly shorter than Martial. He doesn't just need a target like Drogba up front, he can and does use fluid 9½ forwards - like Benzema who is only slightly taller than Martial and played wide at Lyon when he was younger. Even Milito wasn't all that strong, what made him really good at Zaragoza, Genoa and Internazionale was his movement and mental acuity more than physical targetman traits. Martial would be fine as a #9 under Mourinho, the problem right now is maybe we are putting too much pressure on him. With Zlatan, all the pressure goes away because Zlatan attracts half of the attention of opposition defenders towards him, and even this season, he has been one of the top players in Europe. That will not change for the next 2 years atleast.
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To clarify myself, Mourinho likes a #9 who plays like a traditional #9, back to goal, good hold up play, sticking close to the CB's. Martial is not that kind of #9, he likes to drift out wide and stopping him doing that would neuter him IMO. I don't see Mourinho playing a revolving front 3, if you look at both his Chelsea's tenures and his Real and Inter reigns, he played his #9 as a traditional #9.
 
Devil may care said:
I know he's a big guy but so are Drogba and Dzeko and it took both a season to get used to this league. The physicality issue isn't so much about your size, as about your body getting used to getting hit a lot more and about your limbs getting used to the frenetic pace the PL moves at.

That's fair enough mate but I just don't see it, he might get another 2 years in La Liga for Real, but the PL in my view is not cut out for a guy of 35 who has never played in it before. I can see the train of thought you are following, I just don't think things ever work as smoothly as that.

To clarify myself, Mourinho likes a #9 who plays like a traditional #9, back to goal, good hold up play, sticking close to the CB's. Martial is not that kind of #9, he likes to drift out wide and stopping him doing that would neuter him IMO. I don't see Mourinho playing a revolving front 3, if you look at both his Chelsea's tenures and his Real and Inter reigns, he played his #9 as a traditional #9.
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Fair enough mate. However, neither Džeko nor Drogba were as accomplished, experienced or used to transition compared to someone is regarded as the greatest journeyman is modern football - someone who has played in the traditional Dutch way, in the most defensively strong league in the world in the pre-Calciopoli era with hatchet men and snide tactics, in the most skillful league around, and a league where IMO defensive standards are extremely high from an athletic perspective.

The pace or power or will not affect him that much because Zlatan has already mastered the art of economizing his movement and holding people off. A lot of players can't adapt because they're too comfortable in their environs, but Ibrahimović has been a wanderer for pretty much the entirety of his career. And a man of his stature can really take the hits because in the Ligue 1 defenders are also very strong, and he's naturally quite flexible for a man of his size. Honestly don't think the physicality of the Premier League will be that big of a deal for him.

Wrt Martial at #9 - Benny McCarthy, Derlei, Carlos Alberto all drifted wide, as did Benzema at Real - none of them were traditional #9s, they were all more 9½ types. In particular, Benzema's dribbling and ability to stretch the field laterally, and not just vertically, as well as his skill of the ball was what made him so successful under Mourinho. Martial compares favorably to a young Benzema at Lyon (both of them were/ are Ronaldo Lima type complete and dynamic forwards instead of being target men), and long term Martial shouldn't have any problems under José.
 
Invictus said:
Fair enough mate. However, neither Džeko nor Drogba were as accomplished, experienced or used to transition compared to someone is regarded as the greatest journeyman is modern football - someone who has played in the traditional Dutch way, in the most defensively strong league in the world in the pre-Calciopoli era with hatchet men and snide tactics, in the most skillful league around, and a league where IMO defensive standards are extremely high from an athletic perspective.

The pace or power or will not affect him that much because Zlatan has already mastered the art of economizing his movement and holding people off. A lot of players can't adapt because they're too comfortable in their environs, but Ibrahimović has been a wanderer for pretty much the entirety of his career. And a man of his stature can really take the hits because in the Ligue 1 defenders are also very strong, and he's naturally quite flexible for a man of his size. Honestly don't think the physicality of the Premier League will be that big of a deal for him.

Wrt Martial at #9 - Benny McCarthy, Derlei, Carlos Alberto all drifted wide, as did Benzema at Real - none of them were traditional #9s, they were all more 9½ types. In particular, Benzema's dribbling and ability to stretch the field laterally, and not just vertically, as well as his skill of the ball was what made him so successful under Mourinho. Martial compares favorably to a young Benzema at Lyon (both of them were/ are Ronaldo Lima type complete and dynamic forwards instead of being target men), and long term Martial shouldn't have any problems under José.
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Ibra has been around the block but none of his stops are like the PL in my view, maybe I'd be wrong, we are only guessing here in fairness. However I wouldn't risk going into the season with a 35 year old who has never played in the PL as our main #9 regardless, as a back-up yes, but not as the main man.

The options Mourinho used at Porto were more down to him working with what he had IMO, but I'd concede Benzema did more and that was down to the fact Ronaldo drifts centrally so often, and I really can't say I recall Benzema doing the amount of wide dribbling attacks as Martial. I just think he was allowing Benzema to move a bit more as it got the best out of Ronnie, but we don't have any wide player he'd sacrifice his #9 pivot for.
 
I agree with most of what @Invictus said, except I'd prefer Zlatan to extend. :D

Talks about his future at PSG will be held in February.
 
Devil may care said:
Ibra has been around the block but none of his stops are like the PL in my view, maybe I'd be wrong, we are only guessing here in fairness. However I wouldn't risk going into the season with a 35 year old who has never played in the PL as our main #9 regardless, as a back-up yes, but not as the main man.

The options Mourinho used at Porto were more down to him working with what he had IMO, but I'd concede Benzema did more and that was down to the fact Ronaldo drifts centrally so often, and I really can't say I recall Benzema doing the amount of wide dribbling attacks as Martial. I just think he was allowing Benzema to move a bit more as it got the best out of Ronnie, but we don't have any wide player he'd sacrifice his #9 pivot for.
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Can't really disagree with what you said despite the difference in opinion, but the bold part is quite pertinent I feel in terms of developing Martial wide before making him the #9 in 2-3 seasons, which is partially what the Zlatan suggestion is predicated on. By the time Zlatan declines, and Martial becomes the #9, we should be able to acquire a player who maybe isn't Ronaldo, but could provide dynamism and goals from out wide, and start linking up with Martial like Benzema did with Ronaldo to form a deadly nucleus for our attack. These things often take time and we're in the transient zones, and maybe it will take a couple of moves both now, and in the coming seasons to get to that stage. The idea behind it is nebulous, but we have to accept the fact that building a competitive team (in terms of qualifying in the latter stages of the Champions League) is going to be continual 'process' - I know people hate the term but it is quite apt here I feel because ideally you'd want to do things organically, first a firm base, and then progressively up the ante in terms of quality.
 
Invictus said:
Can't really disagree with what you said despite the difference in opinion, but the bold part is quite pertinent I feel in terms of developing Martial wide before making him the #9 in 2-3 seasons, which is partially what the Zlatan suggestion is predicated on. By the time Zlatan declines, and Martial becomes the #9, we should be able to acquire a player who maybe isn't Ronaldo, but could provide dynamism and goals from out wide, and start linking up with Martial like Benzema did with Ronaldo to form a deadly nucleus for our attack. These things often take time and we're in the transient zones, and maybe it will take a couple of moves both now, and in the coming seasons to get to that stage. The idea behind it is nebulous, but we have to accept the fact that building a competitive team (in terms of qualifying in the latter stages of the Champions League) is going to be continual 'process' - I know people hate the term but it is quite apt here I feel because ideally you'd want to do things organically, first a firm base, and then progressively up the ante in terms of quality.
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The problem for me is that this plan doesn't have that wide player identified and also rests our season on a 35 year old who has never played in the PL. Here's a question though, could Martial not be that wide forward and get in a #9 like Morata who has the mobility to mesh with him?
 
Devil may care said:
The problem for me is that this plan doesn't have that wide player identified and also rests our season on a 35 year old who has never played in the PL. Here's a question though, could Martial not be that wide forward and get in a #9 like Morata who has the mobility to mesh with him?
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We don't have to identify said wide player at this moment in time. The market usually coughs up a world class wide player every couple of seasons - and when that player is available we should capitalize on that, which I think with Mourinho's gravitas (provided he's appointed) we will. Maybe Deulofeu becomes a 20+ goals per season wide attacker in 2 seasons, maybe Mina develops into a world class attacker, maybe Sané, maybe a big player suddenly becomes available (like Robben who Bayern bought from Madrid's yard sale). These things can be fluid, and you should monitor developments at other clubs and players who are in ascent - like Suárez who exploded in the space of 2-3 seasons. Even Griezmann who IMO we should buy with Zlatan is that type of player who achieved world class status in a couple of seasons.

One might argue that we should sign more young players now instead of then, but you must always mix youth with experience, like Zlatan and to an extent Griezmann would provide. We already have Martial and Memphis, we need to add a sure hand who can guide them. Once they are ready, we can build around them and add more quality pieces instead of putting extra pressure on them right now - which will be a recipe for disaster. Football isn't what it used to be even compared with the Rooney/ Ronaldo era. No top team builds an exclusively U-21 nucleus now because there's too much at stake and one setback could cost you dearly given the level of competition at the top of the sport, even Barcelona provided to experienced foils for Messi in Henry and Eto'o.

As for Morata, I don't think he's ready at all, he has a lot of growing to do still - which is why Juventus have added Mandžukić to the mix to ease his burden. We can't have 3 inconsistent, developmental attackers (him, Martial, Memphis) in the final 4 as enticing as that sounds because it will be too risky, and risk is something we cannot afford at an uncertain time around the club. If we had a manager who was entrenched in the club, and we had consistency in terms of decision making and personnel, I'd be all for it. But not now, no way.
 
Invictus said:
We don't have to identify said wide player at this moment in time. The market usually coughs up a world class wide player every couple of seasons - and when that player is available we should capitalize on that, which I think with Mourinho's gravitas (provided he's appointed) we will. Maybe Deulofeu becomes a 20+ goals per season wide attacker in 2 seasons, maybe Mina develops into a world class attacker, maybe Sané, maybe a big player suddenly becomes available (like Robben who Bayern bought from Madrid's yard sale). These things can be fluid, and you should monitor developments at other clubs and players who are in ascent - like Suárez who exploded in the space of 2-3 seasons. Even Griezmann who IMO we should buy with Zlatan is that type of player who achieved world class status in a couple of seasons.

One might argue that we should sign more young players now instead of then, but you must always mix youth with experience, like Zlatan and to an extent Griezmann would provide. We already have Martial and Memphis, we need to add a sure hand who can guide them. Once they are ready, we can build around them and add more quality pieces instead of putting extra pressure on them right now - which will be a recipe for disaster. Football isn't what it used to be even compared with the Rooney/ Ronaldo era. No top team builds an exclusively U-21 nucleus now because there's too much at stake and one setback could cost you dearly given the level of competition at the top of the sport, even Barcelona provided to experienced foils for Messi in Henry and Eto'o.

As for Morata, I don't think he's ready at all, he has a lot of growing to do still - which is why Juventus have added Mandžukić to the mix to ease his burden. We can't have 3 inconsistent, developmental attackers (him, Martial, Memphis) in the final 4 as enticing as that sounds because it will be too risky, and risk is something we cannot afford at an uncertain time around the club. If we had a manager who was entrenched in the club, and we had consistency in terms of decision making and personnel, I'd be all for it. But not now, no way.
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That's a fair point regarding how much we already have in the development phase, but I think there is a difference between getting in players in their prime and resting so much on a 35 year old. I like your concept in theory, just not with Ibra as the experienced #9. I'd be all for bringing Griezmann in and keeping the scouts glued on Sane, Dybala etc....

I feel Morata is getting a bit of a raw deal due to Allegri having that typical Italian mentality of favouring older players. When I watch Juve Mandžukić is routinely average and to me they should be building that Dybala/Morata partnership that has shown some sparks of potential.

I concur we are in a dangerous period right now, I'm just not seeing a 35 year old striker as much less of a risk than going young, to me we need to find a middle option.
 
Robben was not a 20 goals a season wide player before he came to Bayern.

It is interesting to see his stats before he came to Bayern. And then you see what van Gaal's system at Bayern made out of him.

Verein
Insgesamt : 499 matches - 173 goals - 131 assists - 35.308' minutes
FC Bayern München 209 113 72 15.143'
FC Chelsea 104 18 24 6.457'
PSV Eindhoven 70 21 17 5.430'
Real Madrid 65 13 14 4.310'
FC Groningen 51 8 4 3.968'
 
I think Kane, Stones, Mane and Griezmann would reinvigorate this team and squad. I also think that would probably cost well north of £200m.
 
I think it also depends on the players that will go at the end of the season. But it seems that most of us would like something like this:

Rooney - Kane
Mata - Griezmann
Fellaini - Mane
Young - Mahrez
Valencia - Lucas Moura

Like Bayern Munich that have attacking players such as Lewandowski, Muller, Robben, Ribery, Douglas Costa, Coman, Gotze, etc.

However, if we sign 2 players of the list, plus a CB like Stones/Laporte/Varane and a CM like Gundogan/Barkley/Pogba we would have a stronger and a complete team to compete for everything. So that would be 4 new players... I just hope we could sign a manager that help us to return where we belong.
 
Fer said:
I think it also depends on the players that will go at the end of the season. But it seems that most of us would like something like this:

Rooney - Kane
Mata - Griezmann
Fellaini - Mane
Young - Mahrez
Valencia - Lucas Moura

Like Bayern Munich that have attacking players such as Lewandowski, Muller, Robben, Ribery, Douglas Costa, Coman, Gotze, etc.

However, if we sign 2 players of the list, plus a CB like Stones/Laporte/Varane and a CM like Gundogan/Barkley/Pogba we would have a stronger and a complete team to compete for everything. So that would be 4 new players... I just hope we could sign a manager that help us to return where we belong.
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Agree with that, basically it's three attackers plus John Stones, now that the mad Dutchman with his fetish for left footed CBs is effectively done here. If it's in the summer then I'n not too sure Mahrez and Mane would make too much sense given the fact that we would have to part with the best part of £100m for them but there are legitimate doubts as to the height of their ceilings whilst for that £100m we could get Moura, Texeira (spelling) and add a few millions to meet Griezmann's release clause. I'd also be wary of adding too much attacking talent as it would adversely affect the development of Januzaj, Memphis and Lingard - basically we need to upgrade the quality of our attack but still remain true to what Manchester United is about.
 
How about Lanzini? He's just 22 and has been quite impressive for West Ham, lively and productive too with four goals already. They only have him on loan so we could probably get him for a very decent fee at Al Jazira compared to the likes of Mané and Mahrez. He's not quite as good obviously but he's also a year younger than the former and two years younger than the latter. I think he's an exciting prospect, not often you see a 22-year-old hit the ground running from day one in the PL like he has.
 
Jev said:
How about Lanzini? He's just 22 and has been quite impressive for West Ham, lively and productive too with four goals already. They only have him on loan so we could probably get him for a very decent fee at Al Jazira compared to the likes of Mané and Mahrez. He's not quite as good obviously but he's also a year younger than the former and two years younger than the latter. I think he's an exciting prospect, not often you see a 22-year-old hit the ground running from day one in the PL like he has.
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Haven't seen much of Lanzini to comment but David Sullivan was saying how the loan deal they have for him is watertight and includes an option to buy, which they'll be taking up.
 
CM10 said:
Haven't seen much of Lanzini to comment but David Sullivan was saying how the loan deal they have for him is watertight and includes an option to buy, which they'll be taking up.
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Does such an option prevent other teams from bidding? (Not trying to be smart, I genuinely don't know).
 
Jev said:
Does such an option prevent other teams from bidding? (Not trying to be smart, I genuinely don't know).
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I'm not sure either, it probably depends on the arrangement between the two clubs. He seemed pretty confident of signing him permanently though, so I would guess it does.
 
Tielemans next week, loaned back for the season.

Stones, Lukaku, Pjanic, Griezmann (throw insane money at it). Maybe throw that Sané kid in.

And then reap the rewards!
 
Loads of work needed, a fullback, a cb, a cm, 2-3 forwards and that is being optimistic and assuming de gea stays. Most important thing is the club gives up on the superstar signings, unless a player is genuinely up for sale, and finds realistic targets.

The transfer safer policy of Ramos or no one last summer was idiotic and pathetically all it does is cause us to go backwards and makes signing these top players even harder. If the glazers have any sense the best new signing would be a director of football.
 
Like Fer has stated above, who we will buy is dependent of who we let go off. LvG has let go off a lot of players but has failed by trusting the ones that have remained to be core to his plans, Rooney et al.
So spending another £1bn will be of no consequence if we are still relying on players that will take us forward.

For me,

Out
Rooney
Fellaini
Carrick
Valencia
Young
Valdes
Blackett
Romero

In
Kane/Lukaku
Griezmann
Tielemans
Stones
Moura


If we are up to it Neymar!
 
Who would you prefer?

Stones or Varane
Pjanic or Gundogan
Barkley or Pogba
Mahrez or Lucas Moura
Sane or Anderson
Mane or Texeira
Griezmann or Bale
Lukaku or Kane
 
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Who would you prefer?

Stones or Varane
Pjanic or Gundogan
Barkley or Pogba
Mahrez or Lucas Moura
Griezmann or Bale
Lukaku or Kane

Either of Lukaku or Kane would do nicely, but Lukaku will simply be less expensive and is probably more willing to move on.
 
Stones
Gündogan
Pogba
Moura
Griezmann
Kane

Only one that was particularly close for me was Stones vs Varane. Went with Stones just because I've seen more of him and he's used to the PL.
 
Dong Fangzhuo said:
Stones
Gündogan
Pogba
Moura
Griezmann
Kane

Only one that was particularly close for me was Stones vs Varane. Went with Stones just because I've seen more of him and he's used to the PL.
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Even though I agree with some of the players you mentioned, it is interesting that only Stones vs Varane were the most difficult choice. Talking just about stats, the other players have been better:

Bale - 11 games, 8 goals, 6 assists
Griezmann - 16 games, 8 goals, 2 assists

Pjanic - 15 games, 7 goals, 5 assists
Gundogan - 17 games, 0 goals, 1 assist

Mahrez - 17 games, 13 goals, 7 assists
Moura - 17 games, 4 goals, 2 assists

Lukaku - 19 games, 15 goals, 4 assists
Kane - 19 games, 11 goals, 1 assist

Barkley - 19 games, 6 goals, 7 assists
Pogba - 16 games, 3 goals, 2 assists


However, all of them are good players that would improve our team a lot.
 
Fer said:
Even though I agree with some of the players you mentioned, it is interesting that only Stones vs Varane were the most difficult choice. Talking just about stats, the other players have been better:

Bale - 11 games, 8 goals, 6 assists
Griezmann - 16 games, 8 goals, 2 assists

Pjanic - 15 games, 7 goals, 5 assists
Gundogan - 17 games, 0 goals, 1 assist

Mahrez - 17 games, 13 goals, 7 assists
Moura - 17 games, 4 goals, 2 assists

Lukaku - 19 games, 15 goals, 4 assists
Kane - 19 games, 11 goals, 1 assist

Barkley - 19 games, 6 goals, 7 assists
Pogba - 16 games, 3 goals, 2 assists


However, all of them are good players that would improve our team a lot.
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Interesting. However raw scorepoint stats hardly tell the whole story.

Bale I feel wouldn't really offer enough over Griezmann considering that he'd cost twice as much so that's my reasoning there. I'm still a bit vary of Mahrez being a flash in the pan. Kane just offers a more well rounded game and fits better into different systems to me. Pogba, all stats aside, is just miles ahead of Barkley as a player in my opinion. Pjanic vs Gündogan maybe should have been closer though, but I hardly ever watch Serie A, and Gündogan is a player I've desperately wanted at United for over 3 years now. Also seems to me that Gündogan would be a better fit with our current best CM's (Schneiderlin and Herrera) than Pjanic would.
 
What do we still need? For starters, a new manager and about 17 new players. Hope some of our sponsorship deals are as big as Woody thinks they are.
 
The Telegraph rumor mill as us linked with a move for Rodriguez.
 
Question: What do we still need? Post Summer 2015 edition.
Answer: A new manager. I wouldn't let LVG spend a single penny, because when he gets fired, which he will, the new manager will need money to buy his own players.
 
Devil may care said:
I like Ibra but I watch Ligue 1 quite often and playing for PSG is like playing for the Harlem Globetrotters in a league filled with journeymen and prospects, he'd find it a lot harder getting kicked, elbowed and pressed here than he does sauntering around in Ligue 1 with all the time in the world to do as he wants.
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He's done well in every single league he has played in.
And his title winning rate is second to none right now.
What I do like about Ibra is that he is a leader on the pitch and he plays with fire. If he joined us, he'd immediately be the most talismanic player we have, followed by Bastian. And the best part: opposition defenders will fear him. Fear causes panic. Panic causes errors. And errors usually mean goals.
 
What do people think of Correa from Atletico Madrid for the number 10 role? He reminds me of Coutinho. Looks a proper talent.
 
When does the transfer window open? Surely we'll have any targets lined up to complete as soon as it opens.
 
Fer said:
Who would you prefer?

Stones or Varane
Laporte or Marquinhos
Pjanic or Gundogan
Tielemans or Bazoer
Barkley or Pogba
Mahrez or Lucas Moura
Sane or Anderson
Mane or Texeira
Isco or Gotze
Griezmann or Bale
Lukaku or Kane
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De Gea
Darmian Smalling Stones Shaw
Gundogan Schneiderlin
Moura Griezmann Martial
Kane
​
I think with a squad like this (24 players including young ones), we can compete for all the trophies:

GK: De Gea, Romero
RB: Darmian, Varela
CB: Smalling, Stones, Jones, Blind
LB: Shaw, Rojo
CDM: Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger
CM: Gundogan, Herrera
CAM: Barkley, Pereira
RW: Moura, Lingaard
LW: Memphis, Januzaj
SS: Griezmann, Wilson
ST: Kane, Martial

With the sales of Valdés, Valencia, Carrick, Fellaini, Mata Young and Rooney. But, I can't see something like this happening. I hope we sign the right players even if they are 2 or 3. And most important, a good manager.​
 
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Fer said:
De Gea
Darmian Smalling Stones Shaw
Gundogan Schneiderlin
Moura Griezmann Martial
Kane
​
I think with a squad like this (24 players including young ones), we can compete for all the trophies:

GK: De Gea, Romero
RB: Darmian, Varela
CB: Smalling, Stones, Jones, Blind
LB: Shaw, Rojo
CDM: Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger
CM: Gundogan, Herrera
CAM: Barkley, Pereira
RW: Moura, Lingaard
LW: Memphis, Januzaj
SS: Griezmann, Wilson
ST: Kane, Martial

With the sales of Valdés, Valencia, Carrick, Fellaini, Mata Young and Rooney. But, I can't see something like this happening. I hope we sign the right players even if they are 2 or 3. And most important, a good manager.​
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Only 250m then :D
 
There was something in the M.E.N earlier today about the board being wary of going after PL stars as after this season the TV money will make it that clubs don't need to sell or if they do the fees will be more than the players are worth bordering on astronomic. We might be looking abroad for signings.
 
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