What do we still need? Aka The never ending story

Devil may care said:
So we need Batman up top and Bonnie Tyler as manager from what I can see! Or do we do not need another hero and put Tina Turner in the dugout with Mad Max in the #10 role?

Me and @bucky were talking about the diamond for this squad and I think it is a formation we could get going with probably the least amount of additions. I just stuck two of our 4 striker options in the team below, you could use any 2, and it is possible(probable) that we would need to buy one striker upgrade eventually but it would be interesting to see how the ones we have did playing regularly in a parternship.

Obviously a second CB would be nice and alternatives to Eriksen could be Fekir.

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The whole thing hinges on a good #10 for me though. If we aren't able to get Fekir or someone like that, then I'd rather stick to a 4-3-3. Dybala or Eriksen would obviously be excellent, but I am not sure how much of chance we've got there. I think it would increase with a new manager. Other than those 3 I'm not sure, if there's a player for that position out there or available that would be worth it to play that system. The main thing for me is that it should get the best out of Alexis. I really wish we would try him as the striker instead of Lukaku at times, but that won't happen as long as Mourinho is with us.

If it's not those 3, I think players like Pulisic (who can also play as the #10), Betrand Traore, Felipe Anderson and Bailey are probably our best bet.

I'd prefer Pavard to pretty much every CB out there, but, as I've said in another thread, I think he's going to Munich. So de Ligt might be our best option. I hope we get at least one of de Ligt, Skriniar, Pavard or Upamecano. Niklas Stark from Berlin might be another to keep an eye on.
 
A manager who uses players in such a way that they play to their strengths, not a team sent out to stifle the opposition and nick a goal.
 
bucky said:
The whole thing hinges on a good #10 for me though. If we aren't able to get Fekir or someone like that, then I'd rather stick to a 4-3-3. Dybala or Eriksen would obviously be excellent, but I am not sure how much of chance we've got there. I think it would increase with a new manager. Other than those 3 I'm not sure, if there's a player for that position out there or available that would be worth it to play that system. The main thing for me is that it should get the best out of Alexis. I really wish we would try him as the striker instead of Lukaku at times, but that won't happen as long as Mourinho is with us.

If it's not those 3, I think players like Pulisic (who can also play as the #10), Betrand Traore, Felipe Anderson and Bailey are probably our best bet.

I'd prefer Pavard to pretty much every CB out there, but, as I've said in another thread, I think he's going to Munich. So de Ligt might be our best option. I hope we get at least one of de Ligt, Skriniar, Pavard or Upamecano. Niklas Stark from Berlin might be another to keep an eye on.
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Better not play Bolton, there will be war
 
bucky said:
The whole thing hinges on a good #10 for me though. If we aren't able to get Fekir or someone like that, then I'd rather stick to a 4-3-3. Dybala or Eriksen would obviously be excellent, but I am not sure how much of chance we've got there. I think it would increase with a new manager. Other than those 3 I'm not sure, if there's a player for that position out there or available that would be worth it to play that system. The main thing for me is that it should get the best out of Alexis. I really wish we would try him as the striker instead of Lukaku at times, but that won't happen as long as Mourinho is with us.

If it's not those 3, I think players like Pulisic (who can also play as the #10), Betrand Traore, Felipe Anderson and Bailey are probably our best bet.

I'd prefer Pavard to pretty much every CB out there, but, as I've said in another thread, I think he's going to Munich. So de Ligt might be our best option. I hope we get at least one of de Ligt, Skriniar, Pavard or Upamecano. Niklas Stark from Berlin might be another to keep an eye on.
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I personally believe that discussing the the particular formation is severely overplayed, especially on forums like that. This post exemplifies it.
Whichever formation we will use should not be the start of discussion, it should be at the end of it.
We need - both ideologically and manager-wise - first decide upon on what type of football we want to play.. If we are going to play a high line and high press (which I would prefer longterm) the formation is not that relevant. You can play like that with a 4-4-2 or a 4-3-3. Or with any system with a three at the back. Bielsa says hi for example.
If one looks at Guardiola for example; the man has a defined way of playing which he wont defer from. Doesnt mean that he cant adjust the formation in itself from game to game. Which he does. As does Pochettino (3 at the back or 4 at the back) and even Mourinho doesnt lock himself to one . Whatever exact formation they use for a particular game is just the final adjustment to the gameplan. Each and everyone of them has a basic ideology that they will stick to no matter what though.
Therefore its backwards to start a discussion like this with how we should line up exactly formation-wise. Its really overrated not to say bordering to irrelevant.
 
Johan07 said:
I personally believe that discussing the the particular formation is severely overplayed, especially on forums like that. This post exemplifies it.
Whichever formation we will use should not be the start of discussion, it should be at the end of it.
We need - both ideologically and manager-wise - first decide upon on what type of football we want to play.. If we are going to play a high line and high press (which I would prefer longterm) the formation is not that relevant. You can play like that with a 4-4-2 or a 4-3-3. Or with any system with a three at the back. Bielsa says hi for example.
If one looks at Guardiola for example; the man has a defined way of playing which he wont defer from. Doesnt mean that he cant adjust the formation in itself from game to game. Which he does. As does Pochettino (3 at the back or 4 at the back) and even Mourinho doesnt lock himself to one . Whatever exact formation they use for a particular game is just the final adjustment to the gameplan. Each and everyone of them has a basic ideology that they will stick to no matter what though.
Therefore its backwards to start a discussion like this with how we should line up exactly formation-wise. Its really overrated not to say bordering to irrelevant.
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It wasn't the start of the discussion. I want us to play differently than we currently do and happen to think that you should use the formations that get the best out of the squad. Not once did I say it's necessary to play one system to play a certain style of football. What I was talking about was simply how to get the best out of the players we currently have and should be looking to sign. Quite a lot of assumptions and jumping to conclusions on your part.

golden_blunder said:
Better not play Bolton, there will be war
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The North will be ours again.
 
bucky said:
The whole thing hinges on a good #10 for me though. If we aren't able to get Fekir or someone like that, then I'd rather stick to a 4-3-3. Dybala or Eriksen would obviously be excellent, but I am not sure how much of chance we've got there. I think it would increase with a new manager. Other than those 3 I'm not sure, if there's a player for that position out there or available that would be worth it to play that system. The main thing for me is that it should get the best out of Alexis. I really wish we would try him as the striker instead of Lukaku at times, but that won't happen as long as Mourinho is with us.
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I agree the #10 aspect is tricky, Fornals at Villareal could be an interesting higher risk option, but Eriksen and Fekir are the standouts, I think Eriksen will be entering the last year of his contract but Levy will still be a nightmare to deal with, and Fekir's always got a bit of an injury cloud hanging over him, but I believe he has the talent to be a pivotal player at a big club. To be honest with Sanchez I am starting to feel like we've done up like a Kipper by Arsenal, but I do agree the best chance of getting something out of him is central, ideally as part of a front 2.

If it's not those 3, I think players like Pulisic (who can also play as the #10), Betrand Traore, Felipe Anderson and Bailey are probably our best bet.
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If we stick with 4-3-3 I agree those names would be in the mix for RW bar Anderson as I don't see West Ham selling after one season. We should also be monitoring Sancho despite the City clause and I think Cengiz Under and Nicolas Pepe are worth consideration as well.

I'd prefer Pavard to pretty much every CB out there, but, as I've said in another thread, I think he's going to Munich. So de Ligt might be our best option. I hope we get at least one of de Ligt, Skriniar, Pavard or Upamecano. Niklas Stark from Berlin might be another to keep an eye on.
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Skrinniar, de Ligt, Pavard, Koulibaly and even a cut price Alderweireld are all good options IMO, I think there's a decent crop of options out there if we are willing to pay the price, we wont get any for the kind of money we paid for Bailly and Lindelof.
 
Devil may care said:
I agree the #10 aspect is tricky, Fornals at Villareal could be an interesting higher risk option, but Eriksen and Fekir are the standouts, I think Eriksen will be entering the last year of his contract but Levy will still be a nightmare to deal with, and Fekir's always got a bit of an injury cloud hanging over him, but I believe he has the talent to be a pivotal player at a big club. To be honest with Sanchez I am starting to feel like we've done up like a Kipper by Arsenal, but I do agree the best chance of getting something out of him is central, ideally as part of a front 2.


If we stick with 4-3-3 I agree those names would be in the mix for RW bar Anderson as I don't see West Ham selling after one season. We should also be monitoring Sancho despite the City clause and I think Cengiz Under and Nicolas Pepe are worth consideration as well.


Skrinniar, de Ligt, Pavard, Koulibaly and even a cut price Alderweireld are all good options IMO, I think there's a decent crop of options out there if we are willing to pay the price, we wont get any for the kind of money we paid for Bailly and Lindelof.
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Wouldn't go anywhere near Eriksen at the moment. There's talk he's got some kind of potentially long term abdominal issue at the moment.
 
RedNed77 said:
Wouldn't go anywhere near Eriksen at the moment. There's talk he's got some kind of potentially long term abdominal issue at the moment.
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Really? I hadn't heard anything about that, that's a real shame as he's gotten better and better on the pitch over the last 3 seasons.
 
IMO we need a world class striker maybe even two, Lukaku just isn’t good enough. A right winger, right back, centre back. I know we’ve a shed load of CB’s but we need a great in there, hopefully to form some sort of partnership with one of the others.
 
Dunno if he can be a consistent difference-maker for an elite club, but I quite like the way Suso has grown in stature at Milan — could be an option for United considering our right attackers tend to be pretty versatile and more in the secondary creator mold aside from being able to beat them man on occasion — finally starting to fulfill the promise he showed with Spain's youth teams. Good playmaker in recent years (though not always in terms of final end product given the state of Milan's sputtering attack/finishing), and a factor from set pieces as well.

vs. Wales in his second appearance for the national team:



 
Devil may care said:
I agree the #10 aspect is tricky, Fornals at Villareal could be an interesting higher risk option, but Eriksen and Fekir are the standouts, I think Eriksen will be entering the last year of his contract but Levy will still be a nightmare to deal with, and Fekir's always got a bit of an injury cloud hanging over him, but I believe he has the talent to be a pivotal player at a big club. To be honest with Sanchez I am starting to feel like we've done up like a Kipper by Arsenal, but I do agree the best chance of getting something out of him is central, ideally as part of a front 2.

If we stick with 4-3-3 I agree those names would be in the mix for RW bar Anderson as I don't see West Ham selling after one season. We should also be monitoring Sancho despite the City clause and I think Cengiz Under and Nicolas Pepe are worth consideration as well.

Skrinniar, de Ligt, Pavard, Koulibaly and even a cut price Alderweireld are all good options IMO, I think there's a decent crop of options out there if we are willing to pay the price, we wont get any for the kind of money we paid for Bailly and Lindelof.
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I still like to believe that Alexis will come good for us, but he needs to be played closer to goal. Similarly, I remain optimistic that if Fekir were to sign for us, he'd stay relatively injury-free.

Under is a good shout. The sample size with Pepe is a bit too small for my liking currently. He needs to keep this up the whole season. Fornals, I definitely see the talent, as you do, but I don't think I am convinced he's consistent enough.

Another alternative for the formation talk could be something we discussed earlier, basically sidestepping the #10/right winger problem:

De Gea

Bailly/Smalling - Pavard - L. Hernandez

Ruben Neves/Paredes

Dalot - NDombele - Pogba - Shaw

Lukaku - Alexis/Martial​
 
bucky said:
I still like to believe that Alexis will come good for us, but he needs to be played closer to goal. Similarly, I remain optimistic that if Fekir were to sign for us, he'd stay relatively injury-free.

Under is a good shout. The sample size with Pepe is a bit too small for my liking currently. He needs to keep this up the whole season. Fornals, I definitely see the talent, as you do, but I don't think I am convinced he's consistent enough.

Another alternative for the formation talk could be something we discussed earlier, basically sidestepping the #10/right winger problem:

De Gea

Bailly/Smalling - Pavard - L. Hernandez

Ruben Neves/Paredes

Dalot - NDombele - Pogba - Shaw

Lukaku - Alexis/Martial​
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I hope your're right about Sanchez, it's just he reminds me of latter day Rooney, still, we have tyet to see him in a more central system so perhaps he can turn it around. Like you I'm a fan of Fekir, ever since him and Lacazette started tearing it up in Ligue One together, but with our injury luck I am a tad wary.

All the RWF options are certainly risks, I agree, with Pepe I'm not even 100% sure what his final position will be, but if we stick with 4-3-3 a risk will be the order of the day I feel.

I like that the 3 at the back system and the outlay on players to play 4-3-3/4-4-2 D/3-1-4-2 is all going to be about the same, it's going to cost us serious money. My only concern over the back 3 is we can barely field a starting CB partnership, even buying Pavard and Lucas Hernandez, we are one injury away from not having the depth to field a back 3 unless we manage to resurrect Bailly and Lindelof as both look shot to me at this point.
 
Devil may care said:
I hope your're right about Sanchez, it's just he reminds me of latter day Rooney, still, we have tyet to see him in a more central system so perhaps he can turn it around. Like you I'm a fan of Fekir, ever since him and Lacazette started tearing it up in Ligue One together, but with our injury luck I am a tad wary.

All the RWF options are certainly risks, I agree, with Pepe I'm not even 100% sure what his final position will be, but if we stick with 4-3-3 a risk will be the order of the day I feel.

I like that the 3 at the back system and the outlay on players to play 4-3-3/4-4-2 D/3-1-4-2 is all going to be about the same, it's going to cost us serious money. My only concern over the back 3 is we can barely field a starting CB partnership, even buying Pavard and Lucas Hernandez, we are one injury away from not having the depth to field a back 3 unless we manage to resurrect Bailly and Lindelof as both look shot to me at this point.
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Understandable, and there are indications that you could be right about Alexis and Fekir. Generally speaking I'm a little bit more optimistic than you it seems. I don't think Bailly's and Lindelof's United careers are already finished. Especially Bailly I could easily see returning to form under a different manager or if Mourinho actually got his shit together. If we bring in 2 CBs, coupled with Smalling, Bailly, Jones/Lindelof and perhaps one of Fosu-Mensah or Tuanzebe, I'd like to think we'd be fine to play 3 at the back in terms of depth. And even if we had another injury crisis like we had in previous years, we'd always could go back to a back 4.
 
DeGea
DeLigt — DeJong — Pavard
Dalot — Fred — Kante — Pogba — Shaw
Mbappe — Martial

Reserves - Rashford, Tunazabe, Pareira, TFM, Lingard, Valencia, Bailly, Chong, Gomes, Romero

Style - attacking, fast paced
By adding 5 players only, the whole style and future of the club is assured successful for the next 10 years

Cost
DeLigt - €80m
DeJong - €70m
Pavard - €45m
Kante - €60m
Mbappe - €220m

Sell
Jones - €20m
Rojo - €20m
Darmian- €10m
Lukaku - €75m
Herrera - €15m
Matic - €15m
Lindelof - €20m
Smalling - €40m
Young - €5m
Alexis - €25m

(/championship manager mode)
 
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bucky said:
Understandable, and there are indications that you could be right about Alexis and Fekir. Generally speaking I'm a little bit more optimistic than you it seems. I don't think Bailly's and Lindelof's United careers are already finished. Especially Bailly I could easily see returning to form under a different manager or if Mourinho actually got his shit together. If we bring in 2 CBs, coupled with Smalling, Bailly, Jones/Lindelof and perhaps one of Fosu-Mensah or Tuanzebe, I'd like to think we'd be fine to play 3 at the back in terms of depth. And even if we had another injury crisis like we had in previous years, we'd always could go back to a back 4.
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I certainly hope you are right about Sanchez, Bailly and Lindelof, and I'd have my fingers crossed if we bought Fekir as he's the missing craft I think we could do with in the final 3rd in many games. Of them all I think Bailly has the best chance under another manager, he has so many of the physical tools if he can regain his confidence and add some maturity to his game. I don't know how Axel is doing at Aston Villa this season but I'd love to see him intergrated properly next season in our squad, of that crop I felt he had the most potential.
 
As of this moment we require 4 players

2 CBs : One young and the other experienced hopefully Pavard and Alderwerield . Pavard can also play right back which will be a big plus .

1 Right Wing Forward : Possibly it can be Fekir

1 Central Defensive Midfielder : It was Fred who was supposed to be the last piece of puzzle in our midfield unfortunately Matic form has gone down the drain so we will need a defensive midfielder immediately maybe Barella or Ndidi
 
In an ideal world...

De Gea
RB CB CB LB
DM
Pogba CM
RW CF LW

But as we can't sign 9 new players, I'll go for only 5...

De Gea
Dalot CB CB Shaw
DM
Pogba CM
RW CF Sanchez
 
Hopefully we will have a new manager by next summer but whoever it is will still need 3 players, really 4 IMO.

CB - de Ligt/Skriniar/Koulibaly
#6 - Neves/Parades/Rabiot
RWF - Pulisic/Sancho/Under

I think we will likely need another #8 as well as I think Pereira will be off in January and Ander can leave for free in the summer, I think he'll go somewhere he will start every week as he's just coming up to 30.

#8 - Brozovic/Ndombele/Allan
 
If I could bring in two fairly realistic players who have what it takes to improve us as a team, I would spend big on Lucas Hernandez to play Centre Half and I'd sign Nabil Fekir.
 
  1. Holding midfielder/Carrick's replacement
  2. RW
  3. A leader at the back.
  4. World Class striker.
Can't believe we have spent so much money on those 4 positions, and they are totally not the right ones.
 
Many call for (another) total rebuilding but i don't agree with that. We need 2-3 players who can be partly funded with some sales.
We need one or two defenders and right winger.
Potential first 11 for next season can be; Ddg,Dalot, new cd,new cd, Shaw, Pogba Herrera(Matic, Pereira) Fred, new rw, Alexis and Martial with Rashford, Fellaini, Mata, Lindelof and Lukaku as solid backup options. If we can sell Lukaku for big fee, we can buy new central striker but if not, no big deal.

The thing which we must avoid at any cost is contract extension to some players who are not good enough. We must be ruthless. We must say to Jones, Young, Valencia and Darmian; " thank you for everything and good luck".
 
A CB along with two midfielders and a RW is what is required to rejuvenate this team. We need two midfielders of real quality to come and play alongside Pogba. I would personally try for De Jong at Ajax and Ndombele from Lyon. We need to match our rivals from a technical and mobility aspect in central areas.
 
CB, RB, MF, RW, possibly CF

All need to be genuinely big upgrades on what we have. Huge upgrades.

As I said in another thread the spine needs to be solid with players of genuine quality. The likes of Bailly, Lindelof, Rashford, Martial, Shaw, Pogba and the next potential crop of academy players will thrive off genuine quality around them.

It's a massive investment with a consensus from fans, and the board that Mourinho isn't trusted with the huge funds that would take.
 
Adnan said:
A CB along with two midfielders and a RW is what is required to rejuvenate this team. We need two midfielders of real quality to come and play alongside Pogba. I would personally try for De Jong at Ajax and Ndombele from Lyon. We need to match our rivals from a technical and mobility aspect in central areas.
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I wouldn't be against 2 MF at all either.
 
So, a CB, RW and DM then?

If we really do have 100 mill to spend in January then I suggest we spend what’s needed on Skriniar or DeLigt and save the rest for the summer.

Then buy a DM and RW in the summer. (Ndombele / Dembele?)
 
Ousmane Dembele (RW)
Memphis Depay (ST)
Frenkie De Jong (CM/CDM)**
Tanguy Ndombele (CM)
Milan Škriniar (CB)
Ruben Neves (CM/CDM)**

This would be my shopping list now. Could be either or on Neves and De Jong but jeez that kid looks like class personified. Willing to persist with Lindelof, Bailly and Smalling.
 
I am against spending on another midfielder while we have other positions to cover but i would love to see Brozovic on holding midfielder. This will sound like overreaction but that guy is now one of the best on that position. I can't believe how good he looks.
 
For January, Godin and Alderweireld for CB pairing, and another scoring forward/winger. Then in the Summer we need to get Midfield sorted out, RIGHT.

Pelegrini and Dendoncker.
 
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I'd probably still bring in new full-backs over centre-backs. We need to get rid of Young, Darmian and Valencia.
 
The striker situation is just as depressing. We're almost strikerless right now.

It's not looking like Lukaku can return.

Wonder if it's worth looking at pretty much any half decent striker with experience for Jan. How long do we keep waiting for Lukaku?
 
redshaw said:
The striker situation is just as depressing. We're almost strikerless right now.

It's not looking like Lukaku can return.

Wonder if it's worth looking at pretty much any half decent striker with experience for Jan. How long do we keep waiting for Lukaku?
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We don't need a new striker. We have Fellaini.
 
redshaw said:
The striker situation is just as depressing. We're almost strikerless right now.

It's not looking like Lukaku can return.

Wonder if it's worth looking at pretty much any half decent striker with experience for Jan. How long do we keep waiting for Lukaku?
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This is the issue when we don't solve other glaring problem positions soon enough. We end up with more, meaning we'll constantly have something not working in our side.
 
Personally my priority signing would be a RW. Then a RB. After that take your pick of CB, CM. And if Dave and Martial go they'll need replaced too.
The amount of positions we need to improve is depressing.
 
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