It would basically be a shrug shoulders moment and an acceptance that our 15 year attempt at evolving our football is simply ‘too hard’ for us so we’ll just go back to playing 442 as we’re incapable of doing anything else well enough. I’m not sure I want to see that.
What do we still need? Aka The never ending story
- Thread starter Devil may care
- Start date
It would basically be a shrug shoulders moment and an acceptance that our 15 year attempt at evolving our football is simply ‘too hard’ for us so we’ll just go back to playing 442 as we’re incapable of doing anything else well enough. I’m not sure I want to see that.
Against Copenhagen = 4 big chances, 3 big chances missed
Against Sheffield = 3 big chances, 3 big chances missed
Against Brentford = 14 shots inside the box
Against Galatasaray = 11 shots inside the box
When you are constantly missing chances the pressure builds on everyone. All the players look miserable and tired, which is down to every match turning into this life and death battle against every team they play.
They are capable of so much more than what we are seeing so far this season. So I would say luck needs to change. Leave the personnel alone for now.
Against Sheffield = 3 big chances, 3 big chances missed
Against Brentford = 14 shots inside the box
Against Galatasaray = 11 shots inside the box
When you are constantly missing chances the pressure builds on everyone. All the players look miserable and tired, which is down to every match turning into this life and death battle against every team they play.
They are capable of so much more than what we are seeing so far this season. So I would say luck needs to change. Leave the personnel alone for now.
By the time we ‘get it’, football will likely have come full circle again and the traditional tactics will be back in. Might as well get ahead of the curve
We are doing the right things hopefully it all clicks and we get the forwards a few goals so the pressure is off
Right Winger Chiesa, Neto, Olise. Neco Williams
Quick ball playing Central defender Todibo , Scalvani , Guehi , Diomonde
Striker to help Hojlund Taremi , Guirassy, Jonathan David. Very limited options out there currently
Midfielder you can control games
Righ Back
Quick ball playing Central defender Todibo , Scalvani , Guehi , Diomonde
Striker to help Hojlund Taremi , Guirassy, Jonathan David. Very limited options out there currently
Midfielder you can control games
Righ Back
Curtis is reporting we will re-sign De Gea on a short term deal to cover Onana being at AFCON
If we do that it's the most embarrassing and pathetic decision by the club I can remember.
We made our choice. Stock with it ffs.
The way this club is run is literally insane. No wonder we are incapable of getting anywhere near the pinnacle of football
Bayindir must look mustard in training then.
Manager! Not saying that Ten Hag needs to go but a top top manager gets more out of these players than he has done this season. Hopefully he can turn it around.
Posters mentioning this and that player - it doesnt matter who you sign, if the manager is not good enough, they wont be good enough. We could have prime messi and prime ronaldo and scholes back and who ever, if the manger is poor, they will be poor.
What pep is doing with City is about 70 percent psychology, as did Ferguson with us. Its 30 percent tactics drawn on some board. Didnt we beat arsenal 8-2 with cleverly and anderson in MF. Vince Lombardi said this, that the top coaches get inside players heads. Interestingly enough ferguson had read his books.
I guess we have to hope ten hag comes good.
Posters mentioning this and that player - it doesnt matter who you sign, if the manager is not good enough, they wont be good enough. We could have prime messi and prime ronaldo and scholes back and who ever, if the manger is poor, they will be poor.
What pep is doing with City is about 70 percent psychology, as did Ferguson with us. Its 30 percent tactics drawn on some board. Didnt we beat arsenal 8-2 with cleverly and anderson in MF. Vince Lombardi said this, that the top coaches get inside players heads. Interestingly enough ferguson had read his books.
I guess we have to hope ten hag comes good.
The United tax on talent and potential.
Yeah, unfortunately, after a positive season last year, I feel we're back to where we've been for most of the previous decade: Looking like a team that won't be elevated by the addition of quality players, and instead drag them down.
Hojland Osimhen
Bruno
Mount Maino
Amrabat
Bruno
Mount Maino
Amrabat
Love that team not sure Our Full/wing backs are good enough to make it work.
Agreed, we would need a RB at least, I think Shaw could do the job on the left side when fit. Not sure who to selll out of Bissaka or dalot, Bissaka has proven competitent in games like tomorrow, Dalot too inconsistent all his time here. I also have read and heard Tottenham are playing very narrow, watched them play against us and considering our wingers don’t hold width for the most part and our fullbacks don’t and aren’t good at crossing we should 100 percent play narrrow
At least two midfielders, which seems to be the case every season. Two Centre backs, a RW and a striker, probably a RB as well.
We always need half a dozen players because we recruit so badly that we never solve any issue for any length of time.
We always need half a dozen players because we recruit so badly that we never solve any issue for any length of time.
Embarrassing where we find ourselves at present. We’re so far off in all areas on the pitch and it’s also really starting to feel the dressing room is lost.
I don’t believe the dressing room issue strictly lies with Erik though. We unfortunately have a combination of weak and spoilt characters who when faced with any sort of adversity turn into a bunch of lazy brats. We’ve seen it with countless managers now.
The bigger issue is that some these characters are meant to be the leaders in the dressing room too. Leaders we have given big, long-term contracts to, and I fear that even Saudi won’t be able to bail us out.
I believe in Erik’s principles as a manager and I hope he doesn’t crash and burn like we saw with Ole. We saw the football he was able to get his Ajax team playing. To get to that level he needs a full squad of players capable of playing that football, not just 6 or 7 players, so that when there are injuries we have continuity and can control games the same way.
When we get this ownership business sorted and a new sporting structure in place, I hope we are brave and make the right decisions to rebuild the club. Take Arsenal and Arteta, they were persistent with the manager, brave with their decisions to get rid of bad overpaid eggs like Ozil and Auba, and invested in young talents and players that match the high intensity football Arteta wanted to play. Look where they are now.
We need to stop buying Real Madrid cast-offs and overrated English players for high fees, and begin consistently invest in u23 talents that suit what the manager needs. Man City have been masters at it, rinse and repeat.
In short, the club needs a complete reset.
I don’t believe the dressing room issue strictly lies with Erik though. We unfortunately have a combination of weak and spoilt characters who when faced with any sort of adversity turn into a bunch of lazy brats. We’ve seen it with countless managers now.
The bigger issue is that some these characters are meant to be the leaders in the dressing room too. Leaders we have given big, long-term contracts to, and I fear that even Saudi won’t be able to bail us out.
I believe in Erik’s principles as a manager and I hope he doesn’t crash and burn like we saw with Ole. We saw the football he was able to get his Ajax team playing. To get to that level he needs a full squad of players capable of playing that football, not just 6 or 7 players, so that when there are injuries we have continuity and can control games the same way.
When we get this ownership business sorted and a new sporting structure in place, I hope we are brave and make the right decisions to rebuild the club. Take Arsenal and Arteta, they were persistent with the manager, brave with their decisions to get rid of bad overpaid eggs like Ozil and Auba, and invested in young talents and players that match the high intensity football Arteta wanted to play. Look where they are now.
We need to stop buying Real Madrid cast-offs and overrated English players for high fees, and begin consistently invest in u23 talents that suit what the manager needs. Man City have been masters at it, rinse and repeat.
In short, the club needs a complete reset.
The question should be who should be kept.
Everybody is just posting the same list every season.
Everybody is just posting the same list every season.
Out
Lindelof
Maguire
Evans
Varane (if Saudi offer good bid)
McTominay
Antony
Martial
Pellestri
Sancho
In
2x first team CBs to battle it out with Martinez
2x CM
1 LW
1 RW
1 LB
1 SS
1 CF
I would consider listening to bids for Rashford & Casemiro too should decent levels of bids come in
we need attacking players who can support the development of Hojlund and be able to lay on chances
Young hungry players should be targeted not older players from Madrid etc
Lindelof
Maguire
Evans
Varane (if Saudi offer good bid)
McTominay
Antony
Martial
Pellestri
Sancho
In
2x first team CBs to battle it out with Martinez
2x CM
1 LW
1 RW
1 LB
1 SS
1 CF
I would consider listening to bids for Rashford & Casemiro too should decent levels of bids come in
we need attacking players who can support the development of Hojlund and be able to lay on chances
Young hungry players should be targeted not older players from Madrid etc
Hmm a difficult one as it requires a lot of money but in short we need
1. new owners (without any constellation where the Glazers are involved)
2. new football management setup including an experienced football director
3. scouting department so we acquire players fit for a style and not only players any manager knows of
1. new owners (without any constellation where the Glazers are involved)
2. new football management setup including an experienced football director
3. scouting department so we acquire players fit for a style and not only players any manager knows of
It doesnt matter who we bring in, if the manager isnt up to it. The last ten years has demonstrated this. Every single season, "we need x,y and z." Then we buy X, Y and Z and it doesnt change a thing. Moyes, LVG, Mourinho etc. The most important person at the club is the manager. Chelsea are finding this out too.
If we had pep or klopp managing us today, we would look so much better even with the same players.
If we had pep or klopp managing us today, we would look so much better even with the same players.
Totally agree.
Always build from the back..
Varane is aging fast, Lindelof is too average, Shaw is a constant sick note you can’t rely on, and AWB isn’t good enough on the attack..I’d keep Martinez, that’s pretty much it..
KMJ made so much sense.. can’t believe we let him get away
Varane is aging fast, Lindelof is too average, Shaw is a constant sick note you can’t rely on, and AWB isn’t good enough on the attack..I’d keep Martinez, that’s pretty much it..
KMJ made so much sense.. can’t believe we let him get away
Obviously we need to make sure that the players have been introduced to each other before they step out onto the pitch, because they look like they have only just met during most matches. But how many of those that we saw today are good enough now (not used to be , or might become) to feature in a side that could expect to challenge for honours? If you take out the talented but horribly out of form (Rashford, Fernandez), the showing signs that they could be quite good one day (Onana, Holjand, Garnacho), the legs have gone never mind (Eriksen) and the bit passive and lightweight but could do alright with the right partner (Lindelof), I count a fat zero. None. Which is an appalling state of affairs.
To be brutally honest, I'd happily sell anyone not named Amad, Garnacho and Hojlund.
You can comfortably improve any position we have in the squad.
You can comfortably improve any position we have in the squad.
Garnacho I'd let go if a big bid came in.
A time machine tbh.
* Buy cheap, young and hungry where possible
* Don't pay colossal fees unless they are a sure thing, elite talent
* Plunder cheaper markets like South America, Austria, Belgium etc.
* Let the youth properly challenge
* Foster competitive spirit with squad players either young and determined or more experienced yet super professional
* Don't overpay with wages. If they don't work out, they can then be sold more easily.
* Create more incentive based contract renewals, incremental wage increases etc. Keep players hungry.
* Don't keep unnecessary players around too long. City and Chelsea are very ruthless and sell youngsters at good prices. We keep too many youngsters in limbo.
GK: Fine I think. Onana will be OK. Give Altay Bayindir cup starts and bounce him in a year or two for another cheap backup or eventual successor to Onana.
RB: Hot take but I don't like AWB too much. Keep Dalot and sign Amar Dedic of Salzburg.
LB: Shaw and Malacia are fine. Malacia can possibly be replaced with Fernandez next year if he doesn't impress. I think Barco is the next top LB but needs a couple of years to develop and Shaw, once fit, is good enough for now IMHO.
CD: Keep Varane, Martinez and Lindelof (too much churn at CD is risky). Sign the young challengers Lucas Beraldo (left footed) of Sao Paolo and Lenny Yoro (right footed) of Rennes.
DM: Keep Casemiro unless we get a mega Saudi offer but bring in a challenger. Martin Zubimendi would be good if he can finally be persuaded to leave Sociedad. Not too fussed either way about Amrabat.
CM: Keep this for Mainoo and Hannibal to compete over with Eriksen or Amrabat staying as an experienced squad player. Let McTominay go, hopefully for decent cash. Gore to be loaned out.
AM: Fernandes and Mount to compete, with both able to play other positions. Give Bruno a rest sometimes.
RW: I don't love Antony but I have high hopes for Amad. They'll do for now. Then go all out for Estevão Willian from Palmeiras when he turns 18 in two years. Most reckon he's the next top superstar out of Brazil. Shea Lacey looks decent but this kid seems to be incredible.
LW: Rashford and Garnacho is fine but give the latter more starts. Rashford's not great when we're not great so sometimes needs taking out the line of fire.
ST: Keep Hojlund and have Santiago Gimenez of Feyenoord compete with him.
* Don't pay colossal fees unless they are a sure thing, elite talent
* Plunder cheaper markets like South America, Austria, Belgium etc.
* Let the youth properly challenge
* Foster competitive spirit with squad players either young and determined or more experienced yet super professional
* Don't overpay with wages. If they don't work out, they can then be sold more easily.
* Create more incentive based contract renewals, incremental wage increases etc. Keep players hungry.
* Don't keep unnecessary players around too long. City and Chelsea are very ruthless and sell youngsters at good prices. We keep too many youngsters in limbo.
GK: Fine I think. Onana will be OK. Give Altay Bayindir cup starts and bounce him in a year or two for another cheap backup or eventual successor to Onana.
RB: Hot take but I don't like AWB too much. Keep Dalot and sign Amar Dedic of Salzburg.
LB: Shaw and Malacia are fine. Malacia can possibly be replaced with Fernandez next year if he doesn't impress. I think Barco is the next top LB but needs a couple of years to develop and Shaw, once fit, is good enough for now IMHO.
CD: Keep Varane, Martinez and Lindelof (too much churn at CD is risky). Sign the young challengers Lucas Beraldo (left footed) of Sao Paolo and Lenny Yoro (right footed) of Rennes.
DM: Keep Casemiro unless we get a mega Saudi offer but bring in a challenger. Martin Zubimendi would be good if he can finally be persuaded to leave Sociedad. Not too fussed either way about Amrabat.
CM: Keep this for Mainoo and Hannibal to compete over with Eriksen or Amrabat staying as an experienced squad player. Let McTominay go, hopefully for decent cash. Gore to be loaned out.
AM: Fernandes and Mount to compete, with both able to play other positions. Give Bruno a rest sometimes.
RW: I don't love Antony but I have high hopes for Amad. They'll do for now. Then go all out for Estevão Willian from Palmeiras when he turns 18 in two years. Most reckon he's the next top superstar out of Brazil. Shea Lacey looks decent but this kid seems to be incredible.
LW: Rashford and Garnacho is fine but give the latter more starts. Rashford's not great when we're not great so sometimes needs taking out the line of fire.
ST: Keep Hojlund and have Santiago Gimenez of Feyenoord compete with him.
Joao Neves, Palhinha, Ruben Neves
Neto ————————————————-Mitoma
————————Hojlund——————————-
Keep Mainoo, Amad, Hannibal, Garnacho, Bruno as challengers. See what interest in the market there is for Rashford, Casemiro with a view to selling
Neto ————————————————-Mitoma
————————Hojlund——————————-
Keep Mainoo, Amad, Hannibal, Garnacho, Bruno as challengers. See what interest in the market there is for Rashford, Casemiro with a view to selling
New owners.
You do realise those players you’ve mentioned there would probably require another €300-350m
Joao Neves €50m
Palhinha €65m
Ruben Neves €60m
Neto €75m
Mitoma €90m
Add to that we need at least new starters at the back.
Obviously I’m just wishing
In dreamland we could get 100-120m for Rashford (70-100) + Casemiro (30)
add sales of McTominay, Maguire etc then you can fund a CB or 2
Are we ever gonna learn it's never a good Idea to bring in players approaching age 30 when their whole game is so reliant on physicality , Palhinha should be just no go infact we should only target players between 23-26 age bracket if going for experienced one or just highly rated youngsters breaking through for next few years .
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In reality it is hard to move on any of these players due to their high salaries.
Palhinha would have been a good buy at the point Fulham got him, but no point getting him 2 seasons and 2 years older at Casemiro prices. Missed the boat unfortunately.
Absolutely agreed find a younger Palhinha if that's the profile you are looking for just no more short term signings .
8 players Ralf was right
Probably a new GK Diogo Costa at Porto
Right Back Frimpong
New Left Back
Centre Back Todibo, Branthwaite
Two Central Midfielder Fabien Ruiz and JoaoNeves
Right Winger Nico Gonzalez
New Striker
Sell Onanna, Dalot, Maguire and Lindelof, Malacia, Mctominey, Antony , Sancho , Martial, Mount. Take the Saudi money on Casimero he was class last season just legs have gone.
Squad
Diogo Costa , Altay, Heaton
RB Frimpong, AWB
New LB, Shaw
CB Martinez, Varane, Todibo, Branthwaite
DM Amrabat, Neves
CM Fabien Ruiz , Mainoo, Hannibal
AMC Fernandes , Eriksen
RW Gonzalez Amad
LW Garnacho Rashford
New ST , Hojlund
Probably a new GK Diogo Costa at Porto
Right Back Frimpong
New Left Back
Centre Back Todibo, Branthwaite
Two Central Midfielder Fabien Ruiz and JoaoNeves
Right Winger Nico Gonzalez
New Striker
Sell Onanna, Dalot, Maguire and Lindelof, Malacia, Mctominey, Antony , Sancho , Martial, Mount. Take the Saudi money on Casimero he was class last season just legs have gone.
Squad
Diogo Costa , Altay, Heaton
RB Frimpong, AWB
New LB, Shaw
CB Martinez, Varane, Todibo, Branthwaite
DM Amrabat, Neves
CM Fabien Ruiz , Mainoo, Hannibal
AMC Fernandes , Eriksen
RW Gonzalez Amad
LW Garnacho Rashford
New ST , Hojlund
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The INEOS takeover would be the only chance to do such a complete rebuilding without the need to explain too much. I hope we dont miss this chance.
What we need is to finally do a proper and ruthless clear out in our squad. We need to shake up and rattle the players. Show them that this is no place for being complacent.
All of the below players have contracts that are either expiring at the end of this season or are entering their final year come summer (including their +1 optional year):
Heaton, Evans, Requilon and Amrabat's contracts ends this summer, Heaton might be worth keeping as a 3rd choice but the rest can leave (obviously early days with Amrabat but must show signicant improvements).
Williams, Wan Bissaka, Lindelof, A Fernandez, Mejbri and Martial has an optional year til 2025. We should only trigger the +1 year for Wan Bissaka, Lindelof, Fernandez and Mejbri with the ambition of selling them and we shoud listen to any offers that may come or wost case keep them as squad players for a season. Same goes for Varane and Eriksen where it's our last chance to salvage any transfer fees.
On top of the aformentioned players theres the players that are not part of ETHs plans; obviously Sancho but also Donny and even Pellistri judging by their limited playing time.
Add the "marketable" players, i.e. those where we received respectable offers this summer in Maguire and McTominay and we're are ready to properly rebuild the squad.
With regards to the CB-position I'd say that we should limit ourselves to only selling two out of Lindelof/Maguire/Varane.
Out of all these outgoings I'm guessing that we could realistically generate sales of somewhere in the region of about £175m, maybe more if the Saudi clubs are willing to bail us out.
That leaves us with this senior squad, and IMO these immidaite needs:
GK: Onana, Bayindir, Heaton
RB: Dalot, new RB
LB: Shaw, Malacia
CB: Martinez, new CB, new CB, Lindelof/Maguire/Varane, Will Fish
DM/CM/AM: Casemiro, Bruno, Mount, Mainoo, Gore, new DM, new CM
RW: Antony, Amad, new versatile RW/LW
LW: Rashford, Garnacho
ST: Hojlund, new ST
With all the outgoings stated above these seven signings provides us with a squad of 26 players.
Who all these new signings are is a good question, but I'm personally tired of the "past their peak"-signings and I believe that we must look at players in the age bracket 20-25 and look at longer term, and equally important that we must keep the wages reasonable with more performance-related bonuses/focus. If they end up not meeting our requirements (on and off the field) down the road, a player on reasonable wages are a whole lot easier to sell. As we probably
All of the below players have contracts that are either expiring at the end of this season or are entering their final year come summer (including their +1 optional year):
Heaton, Evans, Requilon and Amrabat's contracts ends this summer, Heaton might be worth keeping as a 3rd choice but the rest can leave (obviously early days with Amrabat but must show signicant improvements).
Williams, Wan Bissaka, Lindelof, A Fernandez, Mejbri and Martial has an optional year til 2025. We should only trigger the +1 year for Wan Bissaka, Lindelof, Fernandez and Mejbri with the ambition of selling them and we shoud listen to any offers that may come or wost case keep them as squad players for a season. Same goes for Varane and Eriksen where it's our last chance to salvage any transfer fees.
On top of the aformentioned players theres the players that are not part of ETHs plans; obviously Sancho but also Donny and even Pellistri judging by their limited playing time.
Add the "marketable" players, i.e. those where we received respectable offers this summer in Maguire and McTominay and we're are ready to properly rebuild the squad.
With regards to the CB-position I'd say that we should limit ourselves to only selling two out of Lindelof/Maguire/Varane.
Out of all these outgoings I'm guessing that we could realistically generate sales of somewhere in the region of about £175m, maybe more if the Saudi clubs are willing to bail us out.
That leaves us with this senior squad, and IMO these immidaite needs:
GK: Onana, Bayindir, Heaton
RB: Dalot, new RB
LB: Shaw, Malacia
CB: Martinez, new CB, new CB, Lindelof/Maguire/Varane, Will Fish
DM/CM/AM: Casemiro, Bruno, Mount, Mainoo, Gore, new DM, new CM
RW: Antony, Amad, new versatile RW/LW
LW: Rashford, Garnacho
ST: Hojlund, new ST
With all the outgoings stated above these seven signings provides us with a squad of 26 players.
Who all these new signings are is a good question, but I'm personally tired of the "past their peak"-signings and I believe that we must look at players in the age bracket 20-25 and look at longer term, and equally important that we must keep the wages reasonable with more performance-related bonuses/focus. If they end up not meeting our requirements (on and off the field) down the road, a player on reasonable wages are a whole lot easier to sell. As we probably
I read posts like this every season. We are poor sellers. The McTominay and Maguire situation in the summer is proof of that. Also, it seems modern players are more concerned about their salaries than minutes. People like Hannibal, Fernandez and Pellistri can be shifted because they're on reasonable wages but the likes of McTominay, Maguire, vdB, Martial, Lindelof, Wan Bissaka and Sancho are all being paid far more than they're worth.
Which clubs do you believe will buy those players and match their salaries?
I completely agree regarding us being poor seller, we're never ruthless enough, and yes I also believe that it boils down to us overpaying in wages and providing our players with zero (economic) incentive to leave. However, as you say Hannibal, Fernandez and Pellistri are on reasonable wages so should be less problematic then the others.
Regarding your question on who would buy these players my gut feeling/unqualified guess would be that vdB goes back to Ajax for next to nothing, Lindelof to upper table/bigger clubs in Spain or Italy, Wan Bissaka to a mid table PL-club and all three of them are on comparable wages to their prospective buyers' players. Maguire and McT had offers/buyers from the PL pursuing them this summer and my impression is that it was actually us that declined the offers, not the players, hence it's possible to sell them if the club is motivated.
Sancho is the most tricky, we would have to take a massive financial hit on that one - I doubt that we will get anything more than like 25m for him and probably have to pay severance.
We will obviously just release Martial.