What do we still need? Aka The never ending story

Woziak said:
We will be keeping De Gea but not on £20m per year on the club financial accounts each year, it’s crazy and he gets paid twice what any of the top 5 GK’s In the world get paid, G Donnaruma, T Courtois, M Maignan, Allison, Ederson. If we pay D De Gea up to £10m per year but he will have to earn £2.5m of that £10m in appearances and do not guarantee number 1 status, I only see a plus, Bring in David Raya on £6m per year over 5 year contract with bonuses as well. If we pay £30m for Raya on £6m per year then the true cost on our accounts are £12m per year as transfer net amortisation, add De Gea’s new contract of probably £8m per year with bonuses taking him to £10m.

We would have upgraded our GK position as T Heaton is number 3 and we can sell Dean Henderson for £25m which is pure profit as the club never paid anything for him and will also lose his £6m per year wages, again if true, smart business like the KMJ and A Rabiot transfers.
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I agree the wages have to come down. To be fair when he got offered that contract he basically earned that wage.

it’s a pity we can bully the smaller clubs in the league as much any more because i think it would be worth offering Brighton a big some and take McAllister Caicedo and Ferguson, loan them Ferguson for year and have kane in too. Imaginary world
 
FerociousCorgis said:
at this point just follow whoever brighton tries to sign for their midfield and get them instead. Be better than our inevitable 120 million rice pursuit ha.
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it’s brilliant what Brighton are doing some of the signings are wengeresque but Brighton get away with the cheaper tags because with all respect to them they are just Brighton. If any of the top 6 went to try sign the same players there is automatically a tax added on and more so when we try sign a player because our board are idiots.
 
FerociousCorgis said:
maybe. Havent really watched him to know.Depends on who we get as our big CM signing. Plus someone like iqbal could (and maybe should) be our young CM already to go in house.
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Caicedo would be the one for me

Him and Rabiot signed is a definite upgrade. We may have to leave that technical CM until January but more likely next summer
 
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croadyman said:
Caicedo would be the one for me

Him and Rabiot signed is a definite upgrade. We may have to leave that technical CM until January but more likely next summer
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id be fine with caicedo, rabiot, and iqbal being our 3 CM "additions" of the window. Perfect mix of young and older. Replace mctominay/fred/donny with those 3 and our midfield is immeasurably better. Case, Caicedo, Rabiot, Eriksen, iqbal as deep cm options seems like a good mix.
 
berbasloth4 said:
it’s brilliant what Brighton are doing some of the signings are wengeresque but Brighton get away with the cheaper tags because with all respect to them they are just Brighton. If any of the top 6 went to try sign the same players there is automatically a tax added on and more so when we try sign a player because our board are idiots.
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still be cheaper ha. A tax on a 15 million signing prob puts it at like 20 for us. Sill cheaper than 80-100 targets.
 
MadDogg said:
De Gea's performances over the last five years would be classed as 'failing' if we break his career here in half. Indeed at least two of those failing keepers (Barthez and Howard) had at least one season each that was clearly better than what De Gea has given us over the last half a decade. Indeed I'd argue that Barthez' second and third seasons were at a similar level as De Gea has been, and that ended with Fergie getting rid of him and looking for better. That is how far De Gea has fallen. While it's not impossible that a replacement would end up being even worse, it's nothing like trying to replace Schmeichel and VDS where we'd need one of the best in the world to do it properly.

Striker is the only position in the team that is clearly a higher priority. Goalkeeper is up there with central midfield as our next most important.
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Agree if you split his career in half, the second half he has been poor, but disagree that there best seasos were clearly better than DeGeas peak here, where he was plaeyr of the season for a few, considered one of the best keepers in the world, he was world class for a while, easily forgotte, Howard was never even close to world class here, good at Everton but even then nowhere near the levels DeGea has bee at. Think its fair what you are sayig about the second half, but lets be fair on the first half.

Would also agree on th post you are respoding too. It is a huge burden and pressure to come here ad be the number one keeper, over the years there have been some really good keepers talent wise in there time...Barthez, Foster, Bosnich, Howard....none of them were ever good eough in my opinion even though I rate a couple of them highly excluding there time here, DeGea certainly was good eough for a period, Fergie never got rid of him it hat first half of his career after all did he.

Agree though with your final sentiment, Schmeichel and VDS, we were replacing due to age, both were top keepers still in there twighlight, DeGea isnt that old after all but has as you state declined, but forgetting the feet (yes important part of the modern game), I think the keepers came here and failed between VDS and DeGea were all much better keepers tha the names I know we have been linked with
 
berbasloth4 said:
it’s brilliant what Brighton are doing some of the signings are wengeresque but Brighton get away with the cheaper tags because with all respect to them they are just Brighton. If any of the top 6 went to try sign the same players there is automatically a tax added on and more so when we try sign a player because our board are idiots.
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That does happe, but not sure always the case? Pretty sure we were heavily liked with Caicedo for a while at the same kind of fee Brighton ended up paying for him ad that outside of youth sigings that we have spent money on, its harder for us to make these kind of signings due to the risk element at a big club, we should be doing more of them though and I think there should be a couple of these type of gammbles this summer considering outside of four/five first elve signings there are also a 2/3 squad positions eed upgrading and we cant be making £50m signings liek the possible Jae one in all of them.

Maybe a silly statement as for every Caicedo there are a lot more that never work out, but Id rather the kind of £10m gamble than a lot of the names I am seeing as free signing, we have done one really in Malacia, but I cant think of many in the last decade, we used to make lots of them
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
Whoever can be sold for more fees is should be the one sold.

But Dalot can cover left back which provide more versatility, suits for backup player. Both have something different to offer.
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Both should be kept we need 9 defenders 4/5 CB 5 full backs Dalot can play left or right, in modern football they are the most used player and need rotating more than other positions.
 
Woziak said:
Both should be kept we need 9 defenders 4/5 CB 5 full backs Dalot can play left or right, in modern football they are the most used player and need rotating more than other positions.
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I think we need to trim our squad by focusing more on quality than quantity which also benefit for the long term to counter balance the FFP. It's not necessary to have 9-10 defenders when there are only 4 positions to cover.
 
jesperjaap said:
That does happe, but not sure always the case? Pretty sure we were heavily liked with Caicedo for a while at the same kind of fee Brighton ended up paying for him ad that outside of youth sigings that we have spent money on, its harder for us to make these kind of signings due to the risk element at a big club, we should be doing more of them though and I think there should be a couple of these type of gammbles this summer considering outside of four/five first elve signings there are also a 2/3 squad positions eed upgrading and we cant be making £50m signings liek the possible Jae one in all of them.

Maybe a silly statement as for every Caicedo there are a lot more that never work out, but Id rather the kind of £10m gamble than a lot of the names I am seeing as free signing, we have done one really in Malacia, but I cant think of many in the last decade, we used to make lots of them
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So fecking frustrating that deal was complex
 
I hope these Rabiot and KMJ moves materialise. Not only does it appear to be good business but it hopefully means that the new owner is imminent.
 
GK: Costa - £50m
RB: Frimpong - £35m (hopefully after selling Dalot for £20ish)
CB: Kim Min-Jae - £40m
CM:
Rabiot - free
Tielemans - free
Rice - Maguire, McT & £50m
ST: God knows who


————————————Costa
Frimpong—Varane/KMJ—Martinez—Shaw
———————Casemiro———Rice
Antony——————Bruno—————Rashford
——————————Striker

Bench: DDG, AWB, Lindelof, Rabiot, Tielemans, Eriksen, Sancho, Garnacho, Martial
 
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jesperjaap said:
Agree if you split his career in half, the second half he has been poor, but disagree that there best seasos were clearly better than DeGeas peak here, where he was plaeyr of the season for a few, considered one of the best keepers in the world, he was world class for a while, easily forgotte, Howard was never even close to world class here, good at Everton but even then nowhere near the levels DeGea has bee at. Think its fair what you are sayig about the second half, but lets be fair on the first half.

Would also agree on th post you are respoding too. It is a huge burden and pressure to come here ad be the number one keeper, over the years there have been some really good keepers talent wise in there time...Barthez, Foster, Bosnich, Howard....none of them were ever good eough in my opinion even though I rate a couple of them highly excluding there time here, DeGea certainly was good eough for a period, Fergie never got rid of him it hat first half of his career after all did he.

Agree though with your final sentiment, Schmeichel and VDS, we were replacing due to age, both were top keepers still in there twighlight, DeGea isnt that old after all but has as you state declined, but forgetting the feet (yes important part of the modern game), I think the keepers came here and failed between VDS and DeGea were all much better keepers tha the names I know we have been linked with
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Oh they certainly weren't as good as De Gea at his peak. I did specify that I was talking about the last half a decade when saying their good seasons were better than De Gea has been (and Barthez' 2nd and 3rd seasons being at a similar level).

I think we can easily and cheaply upgrade on De Gea, but that upgrade may still not be good enough in the long-term. That's fine, we're still looking at an improvement for a year or two before we upgrade further (which goes back to the much-used example of what both Pep and Klopp did at City/Liverpool). Even if it's just somebody who is average for a PL keeper - not good but not bad either - at most things but is above average at sweeping and distribution, that instantly makes them a more suitable player for how ETH wants to play and plays a helping hand in our entire team transitioning towards that style.
 
Baneofthegame said:
Why are we spending 70 million on Felix in this scenario? We may as well use 40 of that on Lavia and top up toneys 50 to 80 for Kane.
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I would have Felix as an option because individually, he is strong enough to really contribute in core areas of our game. There isn’t many others who are better than him on the ball even when facing an organized defense.
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
Biggest problem in the team is our lack of goals caused by having only one goalscorer and our lack of control (especially in away games) caused by having poor technical players in the build up.

Kane- 80m
Amrabat - 20m
Gravenberch - 30m
Raya - 30m

That's 160m in total. Player sales should get it within the 100m budget


Kane
Rashford Bruno Antony
Gravenberch Amrabat
Shaw Martinez Lindelof Awb
Raya​
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Agree with your point about needing more technical players and then proceeded to suggest Amrabat and Gravenberch?

Wouldn’t say either are especially technical. Amrabat is no more technical than Fred and definitely less than Casemiro, and Gravenberch has the physicality and ball control to drive forward with the ball but he’s not exactly a pass master.
 
GK: Raya
FB: Frimpong
CB: Kim Min Jae
MF: Rabiot, Lavia, Kone
CF: Kane, Hojiland

Then our squad next season:
Gk: DDG, Raya, Heaton
FB: AWB, Frimpong, Shaw, Malacia
CB: Varane, Martinez, Kim Min Jae, Lindelof, (Shaw)
MF: Casemiro, Rabiot, Lavia, Kone, Mejbri
AM: Bruno, Eriksen
Wide Forwards: Antony, Diallo, Rashford, Garnacho, Sancho
CF: Kane, Hojiland
 
We need 3-4 right through the spine of team.

GK- Raya (Brentford) 40million
CB- Guerhi (Palace) 50million
CM- Rabiot (free)
CF- Osimhen (100million)
 
GK Costa/Raya
CB KMJ
DM Rabiot (no he's not natural 6)
CM (playmaker/athletic press resistant 8)
ST Kane/Kolo-Muani/Hojlund
 
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GK: first team replacement
RB: first team replacement
RCB: OK
LCB: squad player needed
LB: OK
CM: squad player needed
CM: first team replacement
RW: OK
CAM: OK
LW: OK
ST: first team replacement & squad player
 
Jericholyte2 said:
GK: first team replacement
RB: first team replacement
RCB: OK
LCB: squad player needed
LB: OK
CM: squad player needed
CM: first team replacement
RW: OK
CAM: OK
LW: OK
ST: first team replacement & squad player
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pretty much. Maybe, just maybbbeeee if EtH feels like he can keep making AWB better going forward it would be a squad player needed on the RB. But otherwise pretty much. Due to transfer window getting screwed by ownership change and budget restriction, maybe i could see the club going with martial/rashford as backup options up top at ST.
 
Messier1994 said:
I would have Felix as an option because individually, he is strong enough to really contribute in core areas of our game. There isn’t many others who are better than him on the ball even when facing an organized defense.
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Hard disagree. Think it would be a criminal waste of funds given the performances we've seen from him at Chelsea. Doesn't score, doesn't assist and plays in the position our best player who never gets injured plays in. The guy is style over substance.
 
What do we still need?
GK, CB, MF, CF - Minimum
On top of the above - RB, MF, Att MF, back up CF (8 positions in total)

At Citeh, in Peps 2nd season they shipped out around 16 players and had 8 new arrivals including the likes of Ederson, Walker, Laporte and B. Silva

For me 9 in, 17 out. Unfortunately we aren't an ambitious club, added with the uncertainty around club ownership.

So, this is just meant for a bit of fun but something I would love to see happen.

Sell:
(optimistic fees, given the wages some of these are on)
Maguire 30
Mctominay 30
Henderson 25
Greenwood 25
Dalot 20
Fred 20
Martial 10
VDB 10
Elanga 10
Hannibal 5
Williams 5
Telles, Bailly & Jones - Released
Butland, Sabizter & Wout - return to sender
£190m sales from 11 players (17 players out in total)

Buy: (doesn't have to be these exact players, they're imo realistic)

CF - Harry Kane 80m
MF - Kone 40m
MF - Adrien Rabiot Free (10m signing on fee)
CH - Marc Guehi 40m
Att MF - James Maddison 40m
GK - 40m (Raya)?
RB - 30m (Livramento)?
Back up CF - 35m (under 23yo)
Alex Scott 15m - loan straight back
330m (140m net)
(9 players in, incl. one for the future)

24 man Squad 2023/2024:

GK - GK (Raya), DDG and Heaton

Def - RB (Livramento), AWB, Shaw, Malacia, Varane, Martinez, Lindelof, Guehi

Mid - Casemiro, Rabiot, Kone, Eriksen, Bruno, Maddison,

Fwd - Kane, Rashford, Antony, Sancho, Amad, Garnacho, Back up CF

Decent squad in terms of HG, youth, experience, balance and depth. Avg Age: Approx. 25

Potential loan moves for:
Iqbal, Mainoo, Pellistri
Plus the likes of Savage, Fernandes, Mengi, Shoretire.

In reality, there's no way we'd be able to shift all those players, because the club isn't proactive. We'll struggle to raise any meaningful fees to enhance the limited transfer budget, but stranger things have happened.
 
croadyman said:
Has that Caqueret ever been linked to us yet
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Last summer he was tentatively linedk for literally a day, then to Milan, then siged a new contract. Still feel we could have got him cheap last season. Surprised he isnt getting linked with big sides more, quality whenever I have seen him, been one of my favourites in the French league for a while now. Some decent players have come over here from Lyon and another about to in Gusto. For me though, the two best ones are still there and thats Lukeba ad Caqueret, Cherki looks super talented as well but not seen much of him
 
In order of priority we need

1st: Starting CM & starting CF
2nd: Starting RB & starting GK
3rd: Backup CB & backup DM
4th: Backup CF & backup CM
5th: Backup RW & backup AM
 
Reading half of these comments, just seems like they play a lot of football manager and think the same thing can be applied in real life.

The below posts for example. What is the point in making such unrealistic posts.

Jericholyte2 said:
GK: Costa - £50m
RB: Frimpong - £35m (hopefully after selling Dalot for £20ish)
CB: Kim Min-Jae - £40m
CM:
Rabiot - free
Tielemans - free
Rice - Maguire, McT & £50m
ST: God knows who


————————————Costa
Frimpong—Varane/KMJ—Martinez—Shaw
———————Casemiro———Rice
Antony——————Bruno—————Rashford
——————————Striker

Bench: DDG, AWB, Lindelof, Rabiot, Tielemans, Eriksen, Sancho, Garnacho, Martial
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Freak said:
GK: Raya
FB: Frimpong
CB: Kim Min Jae
MF: Rabiot, Lavia, Kone
CF: Kane, Hojiland

Then our squad next season:
Gk: DDG, Raya, Heaton
FB: AWB, Frimpong, Shaw, Malacia
CB: Varane, Martinez, Kim Min Jae, Lindelof, (Shaw)
MF: Casemiro, Rabiot, Lavia, Kone, Mejbri
AM: Bruno, Eriksen
Wide Forwards: Antony, Diallo, Rashford, Garnacho, Sancho
CF: Kane, Hojiland
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I’m fearing this summer we will be making 1 or 2 signings to keep the fans sweet, instead of focusing on just signing the players the manager needs.
No doubt all managers will want the same players as the fans but will those players be the guys he needs. So now let’s ask ourselves is Harry Kane a need for how ETH wants to play? One can argue his goals are needed but is his general play a need for our team? Same applies to let’s say an Osimhen.
The club might decide that specific striker might not be available at elite level and will rather get a young striker with potential, that can be moulded into being one.
I personally prefer bringing in players to mould and not the ready type, we will have to restructure around. I subscribe to a far fetched belief that a top United player should not be able to perform at that same level for another club and that’s true for every other top club. Players are supposed to go up a notch in ability when they join us and not plateaued before joining us, whilst we should sell players that can’t go up any further. This is how top clubs maintain and improve.
This brings me to the conclusion Hojlund, Sesko, Muani and Ferguson are the only current options for me. Players with bags of unknown potential and their game can be shaped to suit how the manager wants to play.

None of these guys have the stats to match the current superstar strikers but that data is historic and unrelated to Manchester United environment and the future, including how they’ll fit into our game and what weaknesses opposition know about them. We should return to being that exclusive club where players come to be a Made Man and not be the club where Made Men come to be paid.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
Reading half of these comments, just seems like they play a lot of football manager and think the same thing can be applied in real life.

The below posts for example. What is the point in making such unrealistic posts.
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What would be massively unrealistic about my example?

- Two signings would be free transfers
- One has a low release clause
- One is a RB that could reasonably be covered by the sale of players
- ST is an absolute priority
- GK is a secondary priority
 
Jericholyte2 said:
What would be massively unrealistic about my example?

- Two signings would be free transfers
- One has a low release clause
- One is a RB that could reasonably be covered by the sale of players
- ST is an absolute priority
- GK is a secondary priority
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On which planet do you think we will get Costa for £50m and Rice for £50m and giving West Ham 2 players who we don't know they even want?
 
TheGame said:
On which planet do you think we will get Costa for £50m and Rice for £50m and giving West Ham 2 players who we don't know they even want?
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Having read in Costa’s thread, the views that Porto could do with the money and therefore could accept a lesser fee.

Recent paper report linked West Ham to Maguire & also noted a reference to them having an interest in McT also.

How about if I’d suggested Kane for Maguire, Henderson and £Xm? Henderson could be seen as an improvement on Lloris at this point, Maguire is better than any of their CBs, would that be an unrealistic idea?
 
Jericholyte2 said:
Having read in Costa’s thread, the views that Porto could do with the money and therefore could accept a lesser fee.

Recent paper report linked West Ham to Maguire & also noted a reference to them having an interest in McT also.

How about if I’d suggested Kane for Maguire, Henderson and £Xm? Henderson could be seen as an improvement on Lloris at this point, Maguire is better than any of their CBs, would that be an unrealistic idea?
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I cannot see Porto letting Costa go for that price, you are potentially looking to add at least another £20m on top of that and West Ham will be looking to get maximum value for Rice (close to £100m) and if they wanted Maguire or McTominay, they would want them on the cheap, not paying potential £50m for the pair. Moyes could also leave them this season by reports so targets may change.

Also Lloris is not an improvement and Henderson has been injured all season. As we only seem to have a finite budget, I don't think they will be massive spending without a few players leaving.
 
Bit more crystalized now.
I'll just get the ones we need, the ones that need to leave are for a different topic.

GK - Martinez
CB - Kim
MF - De Jong
CF - Kane/Osimeh/Vlahović

Booster GK, hungry cocky motherfecker.
CB - seems calm and easy to adjust, also a winners mentality.
MF - Erik wants him, he'd bring tempo and control to games, something we badly need.
CF - get the one that's the easiest to get.
We'd do without the sagas and shit, take it or leave it for all three.

Tottenham have fallen badly, maybe Harry has had enough.
Napoli will probably sack their coach, maybe players will want to leave.
Juventus, if they get deducted again, that's no CL or any european football for them, again, maybe they'd sell.
 
Given I don't think a title challenge is realistic next season - Kane for a huge price at his age when he is a free next summer is very questionable. We are more than Kane away from winning it. Our budget is up in the air, our ownership situation is inevitably about to feck our transfer window, so we need to be smart with our business.

Leaning Rasmus Hojlund to be the guy. Get Kane on a free next year if needed. Target next season should be cementing top 4, good showing in CL, continue building as a team towards a title challenge in 24/25. Hojlund is young, but good enough to start for us and improve us enough for us to kick on, and physical enough to transition to the league.

Add a goalkeeper, Rabiot and Lavia to Hojlund and it's a great window.
  • Rabiot - free
  • Hojlund - £50m
  • Lavia - £40m
  • Goalkeeper - ??? Someone to start
  • Younger Center back to replace Maguire
Outgoings:
  • The long list of rejects we can't sell but always loan
  • Maguire
  • Henderson
  • Elanga
Should be fine with 100m net spend.
 
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