What do people see in Lindelof?

[Gopher Brown]

Please do some basic research. Even more so because the whole issue with Lindelof is the partnership with Maguire. Diop replaced Ogbonna, not Dawson.

Regardless of if you rate Diop specifically, whole point is we need pace and aerial ability in our CBs - we don't need a technical player at all. You could sign Zouma and we'd be much better than we are with Lindelof even though Lindelof is definitely a better all round player in my opinion.

I did. I noted he started 18 times in the Prem last season. I noted this was not due to injury. Craig Dawson started more games at CB than him. As did Ogbonna.

I also noted West Ham fans on a forum saying that it was the right decision because Diop’s positioning is so poor. Some were saying Moyes was getting it wrong starting Dawson.

I’m not sure signing West Ham’s third choice CB is going to improve our title aspirations, but I may be wrong.

 

[youmeletsfly]

One thing I don't understand is why he's so skinny, he seems to have lost weight since coming here, thus, being weaker and weaker in the air.

 

[SuperiorXI]

What do I see in Lindelof? Glaring weakness in our defence, can't handle set pieces and gets bullied often. You have to fancy your chances against him as a striker.

His positives are his ability on the ball, his greatest skill is the ability to punt a ball up and create a goal scoring opportunity, he'd fit right in at a Leicester. At a club like United where winning trophies is the most important thing, he simply doesn't fit.

 

[A-man]

Please do some basic research. Even more so because the whole issue with Lindelof is the partnership with Maguire. Diop replaced Ogbonna, not Dawson.

Regardless of if you rate Diop specifically, whole point is we need pace and aerial ability in our CBs - we don't need a technical player at all. You could sign Zouma and we'd be much better than we are with Lindelof even though Lindelof is definitely a better all round player in my opinion.

I have not watched Diop in particular, but I was wondering about his aerial ability. If I list all CBs who played 15 games or more, there are only 3 CBs out of 54 who have won less aerials than him.

 

[Strelok]

Ice under extrem heat

 

[tomaldinho1]

I did. I noted he started 18 times in the Prem last season. I noted this was not due to injury. Craig Dawson started more games at CB than him. As did Ogbonna.

I also noted West Ham fans on a forum saying that it was the right decision because Diop’s positioning is so poor. Some were saying Moyes was getting it wrong starting Dawson.

I’m not sure signing West Ham’s third choice CB is going to improve our title aspirations, but I may be wrong.

I believe he tried to leave, was dropped and then came in after Ogbonna injury and did well. As I said - this isn’t about Diop specifically - it’s about the type of CB he is, hence why I gave Zouma as well.

 

[Gopher Brown]

I believe he tried to leave, was dropped and then came in after Ogbonna injury and did well. As I said - this isn’t about Diop specifically - it’s about the type of CB he is, hence why I gave Zouma as well.

You’ll be delighted to hear we’re again heavily linked with 5ft 10in Jules Kounde again.

 

[Maticmaker]

Lindelhof is too similar in style but not as good as Maguire, they do not complement each other as a CB pairing should...end of!

 

[tomaldinho1]

You’ll be delighted to hear we’re again heavily linked with 5ft 10in Jules Kounde again.

In fairness I haven’t watched a lot of him so he might be good enough aerially. More about decisiveness and aggression for me in the air - Lindelof is tall enough to be much better aerially than he is.

 

[RedAlert7]

Mourinho summarised it well enough in that sky sports video. Lindelof is too weak in the air and not aggressive enough going in for duels. Against teams that don't opt to go with the aerial route that's fine but those teams that will literally play a low block and hope to knick a goal from a set piece can prove costly.

Saying that i wouldn't sell him like some fans but would keep him on as a squad player because he is always available and rarely injured and we need that especially when other than maguire our other centre backs are always injured.

 

[A-man]

Regarding defender who go in to many duels or not. It clearly depends on player type, but the question is what do we need? Maguire goes in to many duels, imo he needs a partner who is more of the "falling back to cover" type than one who also likes to push. Below is a list of amount of duels per match this season for the most commonly mentioned CBs. Unfortunately it also includes offensive aerial duels (roughly 40% of Maguire's aerial duels are offensive headers on corners) which has a big impact, but maybe this gives some kind of overview anyway.

Torres and Varane are more like Lindelof in the "duel aspect", and Koundé and Botman more same type as Maguire.

Player	Total Duels	Aerial Duels	Ground Duels
Maguire	9.2	5.3	3.9
Koundé	9.1	5.2	4
Botman	7.3	4.8	2.5
Bailly	6.3	4.1	2.3
Lindelof	5.9	3.6	2.4
Torres	5.5	2.8	2.7
Varane	5.4	3.2	2.2

In Bailly's case it contradict my picture of him, but I also have the feeling that he has calmed down a little.

Some other PL CBs:

Player	Total Duels	Aerial Duels	Ground Duels
Phillips	13.1	9.1	4.1
Zouma	7.7	5.6	2.1
Rudiger	7.7	3.4	3.6
Christensen	6.5	3.7	2.9
Thiago Silva	6.4	3.5	2.9
Dias	6.0	3.2	2.8
John Stones	5.3	2.8	2.5

 

[golden_blunder]

You are making excuses for Lindelof again. It’s thing falling back but you cannot fall back at a set piece. A prerequisite of a CB should be able to head. End of story

 

[A-man]

You are making excuses for Lindelof again. It’s thing falling back but you cannot fall back at a set piece. A prerequisite of a CB should be able to head. End of story

A CB should be able to do many things. If heading was more important than other things, Smalling would be here and Lindelof/Bailly at Roma. Together with Ruben Dias.
But this is a comparison between CBs in regards to how many duels they go in to, and what type would fit to partner Maguire, taking only that aspect in mind. Would it be someone who also attacks and gets in to duels, like Kounde or Botman? Or someone who doesn't get in to many duels, like Varane, Torres or Lindelof?

 

[golden_blunder]

A CB should be able to do many things. If heading was more important than other things, Smalling would be here and Lindelof/Bailly at Roma. Together with Ruben Dias.
But this is a comparison between CBs in regards to how many duels they go in to, and what type would fit to partner Maguire, taking only that aspect in mind. Would it be someone who also attacks and gets in to duels, like Kounde or Botman? Or someone who doesn't get in to many duels, like Varane, Torres or Lindelof?

You again are trying to talk a way out of Lindelof being rubbish in the air “he doesn’t need to duel he compliments maguire”.
when will you admit he’s got a major failing in his armour as a cb?

 

[Vidyoyo]

That pass at 58s

 

[A-man]

You again are trying to talk a way out of Lindelof being rubbish in the air “he doesn’t need to duel he compliments maguire”.
when will you admit he’s got a major failing in his armour as a cb?

The discussion was not about Lindelof in the air but about potential new CBs abilities to go in to duels. Aerials is one of his weaker sides, nobody said anything else.

 

[Cabin Clown]

He's a defender who doesn't excel at anything. CB is a top priority, although why Lindelof has been starting over the likes of Tuanzebe all season is baffling to say the least.

 

[swedishgloryhunter]

He's a defender who doesn't excel at anything. CB is a top priority, although why Lindelof has been starting over the likes of Tuanzebe all season is baffling to say the least.

Tuanzebe is really unreliable, so many games where he was subbed in late and made mistakes which cost us points. Im not saying lindelof is much better but hes not rubbish in the air as some here are trying to prove, hes not great but average. Is he a starting cb for united? No, not in the pl. He would do better in a less physical League.

 

[mitchmouse]

Victor reads the game far netter (and quicker) than any of our other centre backs, possibly better than any of the back four. He has his problems but would be even beter with a hugely pacey CB next to him (no one, surely, can claim Maguire is anything but slow)

 

[VivaObertan]

Fear

I've never rated him because he doesn't take any initiative - his defensive involvement is like a cone you move into various positions on the pitch. Static but an extra body nonetheless.

His aesthetic is what makes some people rate him, I feel. He doesn't look awkward when sprinting or passing like Smalling or Rudiger so people confuse that with ability.

(I feel bad writing a negative post about s United player!)

 

[Trequarista10]

He's generally good at defending on the floor, eg taking the ball when oppo player is dribbling with it, or intercepting a pass. Not outstanding but good enough. He's poor at defending aerially or inside the penalty box. In fact he gets increasingly worse the closer to the goal line, from 6 yards out he turns into a nervous, wobbling, jelly that opposition can push ove. r

He should move somewhere he can play RCB in a back three to minimize his limitations.

 

[golden_blunder]

Victor reads the game far netter (and quicker) than any of our other centre backs, possibly better than any of the back four. He has his problems but would be even beter with a hugely pacey CB next to him (no one, surely, can claim Maguire is anything but slow)

But you don’t replace Lindelofs problems just by replacing our best cb

 

[Bobski]

His greatest strength, patience, might also be his great weakness. He is good at jockeying, slowing down attacks and avoiding over committing. However there is often a point during that type of defending when you need to commit and put pressure on the attacker, Lindelof rarely makes that switch, allows the attacker too much comfort in control of the ball.

His other issues with physical mismatches can look awful but they are not directly punished as often as you would think, but inevitably contribute to the mindset above.

 

[dinostar77]

Easy to blame Mourinho as the scapegoat for this signing. But he wanted one £60-£70mil elite or potential to be elite CB and woodward and judge veoted that idea. So mourinho got in two lesser CBs lindelof and bailly for the same money. I can't recall who Mourinho was pushing for at the time i think it was a young ruben dias or koubailly or someone else maybe VVD? Who knows anyway another awful signing that can be associated woth woodward and judge.

 

[United in sin]

He's generally good at defending on the floor, eg taking the ball when oppo player is dribbling with it, or intercepting a pass. Not outstanding but good enough. He's poor at defending aerially or inside the penalty box. In fact he gets increasingly worse the closer to the goal line, from 6 yards out he turns into a nervous, wobbling, jelly that opposition can push over

He should move somewhere he can play RCB in a back three to minimize his limitations.

Lindelof is poor on the floor as well, particularly against pacey and stronger opponents. He doesn't usually knick the ball of the opposition, he backs off them because he cowers at the prospect of physical tussles.

Lindelof has made less interceptions per match than Maguire and Bailly which is telling.

 

[Leftback99]

Easy to blame Mourinho as the scapegoat for this signing. But he wanted one £60-£70mil elite or potential to be elite CB and woodward and judge veoted that idea. So mourinho got in two lesser CBs lindelof and bailly for the same money. I can't recall who Mourinho was pushing for at the time i think it was a young ruben dias or koubailly or someone else maybe VVD? Who knows anyway another awful signing that can be associated woth woodward and judge.

We bought Lindelof for £30m+ the same summer we could have had Maguire for around £15m. Staggeringly bad.

 

[Number32]

Tuanzebe is really unreliable, so many games where he was subbed in late and made mistakes which cost us points. Im not saying lindelof is much better but hes not rubbish in the air as some here are trying to prove, hes not great but average. Is he a starting cb for united? No, not in the pl. He would do better in a less physical League.

Tuanzebe just need game time, he is doing well for a player who only had start 5-6 games in a season.

About Lindelof, I agree. In alternative world, I can see him as a successor of Pique at Barcelona. He would have made those overrated la masia CBs gone in two years.

 

[GueRed]

He's generally good at defending on the floor, eg taking the ball when oppo player is dribbling with it, or intercepting a pass. Not outstanding but good enough. He's poor at defending aerially or inside the penalty box. In fact he gets increasingly worse the closer to the goal line, from 6 yards out he turns into a nervous, wobbling, jelly that opposition can push ove. r

He should move somewhere he can play RCB in a back three to minimize his limitations.

sounds like Tuanzebe. Add that clown Bailly minus Maguire our centre-backs are mid-table scrap.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Tuanzebe is really unreliable, so many games where he was subbed in late and made mistakes which cost us points. Im not saying lindelof is much better but hes not rubbish in the air as some here are trying to prove, hes not great but average. Is he a starting cb for united? No, not in the pl. He would do better in a less physical League.

But at the same time he improved in the last few games he played for us. Axel isn’t going to improve sitting on the bench

 

[Harry190]

Victor reads the game far netter (and quicker) than any of our other centre backs, possibly better than any of the back four. He has his problems but would be even beter with a hugely pacey CB next to him (no one, surely, can claim Maguire is anything but slow)

What do you mean by read the game? When he turns his back to the opponent and tries to shield the ball before getting bummed out by players smaller than him when he could have just cleared it the first time?

 

[golden_blunder]

What do you mean by read the game? When he turns his back to the opponent and tries to shield the ball before getting bummed out by players smaller than him when he could have just cleared it the first time?

Pretty sure that’s what he means

 

[mitchmouse]

What do you mean by read the game? When he turns his back to the opponent and tries to shield the ball before getting bummed out by players smaller than him when he could have just cleared it the first time?

clearly you don't want a serious answer, given that you haven't asked a serious question... if you are talking about what I think, I suggest asking where the f@ck was Shaw?

 

[IrishRedDevil]

A wet wipe

 

[mitchmouse]

But you don’t replace Lindelofs problems just by replacing our best cb

I don't recall saying anything of the sort - although don't tell me we bought the right CB when we splashed out on maguire

 

[Harry190]

clearly you don't want a serious answer, given that you haven't asked a serious question... if you are talking about what I think, I suggest asking where the f@ck was Shaw?

I am talking about multiple instances. He positions his body between the ball and the line, invites the attacker to pressure him and cannot withstand their push. Any line and he has done it several times.

 

[mitchmouse]

I am talking about multiple instances. He positions his body between the ball and the line, invites the attacker to pressure him and cannot withstand their push. Any line and he has done it several times.

Agreed he is a bit soft there - but most of the time he is being fouled (refs just don't give it)

 

[United in sin]

sounds like Tuanzebe. Add that clown Bailly minus Maguire our centre-backs are mid-table scrap.

Maguire isn't good enough either, but this is the level we've become accostomed to

 

[GueRed]

Maguire isn't good enough either, but this is the level we've become accostomed to

Maguire is a good centre-back. He has also been one of the best centre backs in the Premier League this season.

He has been a good signing.

If you cant even acknowledge that you're beyond help.

 

[Trequarista10]

sounds like Tuanzebe. Add that clown Bailly minus Maguire our centre-backs are mid-table scrap.

Tbh it's a problem with a lot of modern CBs, due to the emphasis towards CBs needing to be skilled at playing out from the back, and less teams playing a strategy that involves getting crosses in and having a big man upfront.

Problem is everything else should be secondary, the most important things for a CB is to be able to win the physical battle, command their penalty box and win aerially challenges.

Wes Brown, Jamie Carragher, Martin Keown level players, very good but never top bracket CBs in their era, put them in today's game and they'd make most CBs starting for the top sides look like Titus Bramble.

Van Dijk is/was last season seen as the best CB in the world, I honestly don't think he's any better than the 3 aforementioned CBs, just the standard has decreased massively, aside from defenders being able to pass a bit better.

 

[A-man]

Tbh it's a problem with a lot of modern CBs, due to the emphasis towards CBs needing to be skilled at playing out from the back, and less teams playing a strategy that involves getting crosses in and having a big man upfront.

Problem is everything else should be secondary, the most important things for a CB is to be able to win the physical battle, command their penalty box and win aerially challenges.

Wes Brown, Jamie Carragher, Martin Keown level players, very good but never top bracket CBs in their era, put them in today's game and they'd make most CBs starting for the top sides look like Titus Bramble.

Van Dijk is/was last season seen as the best CB in the world, I honestly don't think he's any better than the 3 aforementioned CBs, just the standard has decreased massively, aside from defenders being able to pass a bit better.

It’s a natural development of the game. The defenders are important in other aspects of the game than just defending by winning duels. The top teams need to have CB with good ball handling. It’s possible a team with “modern” CBs concede 3-4 extra goals over the season from losing aerials, but defenders losing possession, clearing the ball all the time, not being able to build up from the back etc will cost more for a top team.