What can we do about the team's lack of pace?

It’s the combination of pace and physicality that is the problem. Hojlund and Dalot are the only players we have in the side with that combination and they have little impact on how we play.

With how we play leaving gaps all over the pitch we need gaps of our starting 11 to be fast and physical rather than 1 or 2 players.

Against Spurs the other day Van de Ven and Udogie were able to stop quite a few of our potential attacks because of of physicality and recovery pace. Our defence lacks that and our midfield is even slower.

It’s been an unathletic team for a while so the decision to sign players like De Ligt and Zirkzee wasn’t smart.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Their centre backs are. Which is where our lack of pace is most damaging.
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And Walker is elite fast. Having one epically fast recovery defender can make a huge difference.

Back in the day we’d often line up with Neville, Vidic and the likes of O'Shea or Silvestre in defence. None of them were fast but Rio’s pace covered for them.

At the moment we have nobody to cover.
 
Structure goes a long way. I'm not too convinced outside of Walker that City have anyone who is an automatic starter with pace or legs much above our current squad but the system works so well that the gaps are small enough and players close enough that it's negated.

There's also a difference in a good system between raw pace and pace over 90 minutes. A good system allows your players to operate at a good pace for the whole match, rather than getting knackered chasing shadows and gaps and dramatically slowing over the back half.

A more compact centre midfield would help - especially one where our number 10/ advanced 8 doesn't embark on a suicidal lone-press from minute one until the whole shape is out of kilter and massive gaps appear. Likewise, the drift of our full backs into weird pockets leaves so much more ground for a DM or CBs to cover that their usable pace after 60 mins is likely shot
 
Shane88 said:
Is Yoro fast because Maguire, De Ligt, Martinez and Evans have about 80 pace combined, and Martinez is 50 of that.
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I'd say De Ligt is faster than Martinez. Hell, in this game there was even one late break (from a corner I think) that Evans showed good pace to get back faster than Martinez would have. Admittedly that's over a longer distance and I expect Martinez is faster over the first few steps which is generally more important, but still.
 
diarm said:
And Walker is elite fast. Having one epically fast recovery defender can make a huge difference.

Back in the day we’d often line up with Neville, Vidic and the likes of O'Shea or Silvestre in defence. None of them were fast but Rio’s pace covered for them.

At the moment we have nobody to cover.
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Silvestre was rapid but generally agree. Even just one very quick CB makes a big difference. Dalot is very fast but prone to daydreaming. Having just one quick CB would make a huge difference to us.
 
DJ_21 said:
Ye we have our FBS playing as wingers and they don’t get back quick enough. But pep also plays with high or inverter full backs. The difference is he has Walker who is rapid and can get back. Also they don’t lose the ball often. But it’s one of the reason Ole had a lot of success against pep because you need to play deep and counter against city when they leave spaces.
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Dalot is probably the fastest player in our squad, but not even he can cover the distances that he's being asked to. It's a general rule that teams try to compress the play into as small an area as possible when the opposition have the ball, but we basically do the opposite and give them the freedom of the pitch. Which then means our players are having to cover larger distances. Dalot either inverts to help out the midfield or pushes up to help out the winger which means he's then too far away to cover for Martinez' lack of pace.
 
I'm not sure lacking pace is as much of a problem as many people think, providing you don't have a crackpot manager who seems to believe that making a game as open as possible somehow suits us.
 
diarm said:
And Walker is elite fast. Having one epically fast recovery defender can make a huge difference.

Back in the day we’d often line up with Neville, Vidic and the likes of O'Shea or Silvestre in defence. None of them were fast but Rio’s pace covered for them.

At the moment we have nobody to cover.
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Silvestre was very fast, probably faster than Rio in fact.
 
Both our centre backs and central midfielders are slow, and the full backs aren’t rapid. Obviously the chaos and disorganisation doesn’t help but we are crying out for some pace and physicality in those positions.
 
Lentwood said:
I'm not sure lacking pace is as much of a problem as many people think, providing you don't have a crackpot manager who seems to believe that making a game as open as possible somehow suits us.
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Exactly. Having really some quick players can be useful in certain situations within a game, but having lots of really fast players isn't a prerequisite for being a good football team.

Think about how many average or even poor teams have super fast or physical players but are still not very good teams. It's a useful quality, but definitely should be a lower priority than technical ability with the ball, football IQ, or tactical and positional awareness.
 
The only lack of pace is at CB and in the middle of the park. I think Ugarte and Yoro might solve this.

The bigger issue is the set up and the structure of the team. That's down to bad coaching.
 
Get Yoro in the starting line up ASAP for one
 
MadDogg said:
Dalot is probably the fastest player in our squad, but not even he can cover the distances that he's being asked to. It's a general rule that teams try to compress the play into as small an area as possible when the opposition have the ball, but we basically do the opposite and give them the freedom of the pitch. Which then means our players are having to cover larger distances. Dalot either inverts to help out the midfield or pushes up to help out the winger which means he's then too far away to cover for Martinez' lack of pace.
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I’d say in terms of pure pace in our defenders the list is something like this ;

1. Diego Dalot
2. Luke Shaw
3. Lenny Yoro when fit
4. T Mallacia when fit
5. V Lindelof
6. Mazraoui
7. L Martinez
8. J Evans
9. M De Ligt
10 .H Maguire

strikers and midfield
1. Rashford
2. Hojlund
3. Garnaucho
4. Amad
5. M Mount
6. Bruno
7. Antony
8 . Ugarte
9. J Zirkzee
10. kobbie
11. Eriksen
12. Casemiro

There’s simply not much pace in this squad and probably needs Thomas Tuchel, a very good tactical coach to implement a 343 system.
 
Woziak said:
I’d say in terms of pure pace in our defenders the list is something like this ;

1. Diego Dalot
2. Luke Shaw
3. Lenny Yoro when fit
4. T Mallacia when fit
5. V Lindelof
6. Mazraoui
7. L Martinez
8. J Evans
9. M De Ligt
10 .H Maguire

strikers and midfield
1. Rashford
2. Hojlund
3. Garnaucho
4. Amad
5. M Mount
6. Bruno
7. Antony
8 . Ugarte
9. J Zirkzee
10. kobbie
11. Eriksen
12. Casemiro

There’s simply not much pace in this squad and probably needs Thomas Tuchel, a very good tactical coach to implement a 343 system.
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I would put Garnacho ahead of Rashford and Mainoo + zirkzee ahead of Bruno.
 
Hammondo said:
I would put Garnacho ahead of Rashford and Mainoo + zirkzee ahead of Bruno.
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Rashford is miles quicker than Garnaucho go to a live game ask any , Zirkzee has a decent turn of pace but it’s a big unit, Kobbie I’m not sure about he seems to struggle to catch players when he’s running back, Bruno can be deceptively quick especially over 5-10 yards but Rashford at full fitness is United fastest player with Hojlund and Dalot close seconds
 
Woziak said:
Rashford is miles quicker than Garnaucho go to a live game ask any , Zirkzee has a decent turn of pace but it’s a big unit, Kobbie I’m not sure about he seems to struggle to catch players when he’s running back, Bruno can be deceptively quick especially over 5-10 yards but Rashford at full fitness is United fastest player with Hojlund and Dalot close seconds
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I have seen them live, Garnacho is faster when I've seen him, Rashford has lost a lot of pace.

Zirkzee is big, and I'm not saying he's fast, but Bruno is really not that fast outside of his first few steps, and even then he's slower than mainoo.
 
It’s simple.

Sir Jimbo needs to get his finger out and get on with that best-in-class squad rebuild.

You guys need your best-in-class scouts to identify some goalkeepers, defenders, midfielders and forwards with elite-level pace.

Then your best-in-class CEO needs to authorise the banks to spend some wonga, and boom! Done.
 
The speed of the players is absolutely not the issue. It's the set-up of the team.
 
Is it even recruitment? Since LVG's days there has routinely been posts about how slow and leaden footed we look in games. It's like everyone else started learning how to press post all the German/Austrian influence showing how to do it with cheaper squads, and we just got left behind. Maybe it is to do with our fitness department.

Think of guys like B Silva, McCallister, Foden, Diaz, Kova etc. none of them are rapid if you lined them up in a 100m sprint next to Hojlund, Rashford or Dalot but they are much more nimble and dynamic. Top speed in football is near pointless, it's all about the burst of pace and who do we have who has crazy acceleration? Amad, Antony, Garnacho really are not that fast, they are not slow but it's' rare they'd outpace most CBs these days. Rashford is fast when he gets going but his raw acceleration has gone since his operation and Hojlund is like a tank, once he is up to speed he is quick but he's a heavy dude.
 
Yoro is absolutely rapid. But has folks have said we're comparable to many other teams, if not faster. Our setup is the issue
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Is it even recruitment? Since LVG's days there has routinely been posts about how slow and leaden footed we look in games. It's like everyone else started learning how to press post all the German/Austrian influence showing how to do it with cheaper squads, and we just got left behind. Maybe it is to do with our fitness department.

Think of guys like B Silva, McCallister, Foden, Diaz, Kova etc. none of them are rapid if you lined them up in a 100m sprint next to Hojlund, Rashford or Dalot but they are much more nimble and dynamic. Top speed in football is near pointless, it's all about the burst of pace and who do we have who has crazy acceleration? Amad, Antony, Garnacho really are not that fast, they are not slow but it's' rare they'd outpace most CBs these days. Rashford is fast when he gets going but his raw acceleration has gone since his operation and Hojlund is like a tank, once he is up to speed he is quick but he's a heavy dude.
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Amad has good acceleration and I'd put him in a similar bracket to the first list. His top speed is not as good as Rashford or Rasmus, but he has very good acceleration.

He was particularly coached to be decisive when he was at Sunderland which elevated his game, and if I'm honest, with each passing game it seems we're coaching it out of him, or it's not something we're focusing on.
 
The best team ever (Barca under pep) had glacial players through the centre of the pitch in Pique, Busquets, Xavi. It's not about pace, it's about how you control football matches. We have none.
 
DJ_21 said:
Ye we have our FBS playing as wingers and they don’t get back quick enough. But pep also plays with high or inverter full backs. The difference is he has Walker who is rapid and can get back. Also they don’t lose the ball often. But it’s one of the reason Ole had a lot of success against pep because you need to play deep and counter against city when they leave spaces.
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They don't lose the ball as often, they play as a unit higher up the pitch, and they also do the dark arts. We do none of those things.
 
Lu Tze said:
The best team ever (Barca under pep) had glacial players through the centre of the pitch in Pique, Busquets, Xavi. It's not about pace, it's about how you control football matches. We have none.
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Yea, and so much patience with the ball.
 
Lu Tze said:
The best team ever (Barca under pep) had glacial players through the centre of the pitch in Pique, Busquets, Xavi. It's not about pace, it's about how you control football matches. We have none.
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But Xavi and Iniesta had tons of stamina. They could endure a full match in high rythm.
 
Positioning and effective use of physicality

We're so open to quick counters because the team positioning is poor and the space between the defence, midfield and attack is often too far leading to longer passes that trying to go past opposition players who can then intercept easily

Use bodies to stop players running in straight lines
 
Hammondo said:
I have seen them live, Garnacho is faster when I've seen him, Rashford has lost a lot of pace.

Zirkzee is big, and I'm not saying he's fast, but Bruno is really not that fast outside of his first few steps, and even then he's slower than mainoo.
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At 26 you don’t lose pace, most of the 100m sprint champions reach peak sprint speed at 25 to 32, Walker is also over 34 but because of his Jamaican heritage and twitch fibre muscles like Rashford they have increased acceleration, he might not be trying because he can’t stand the coach and thinks he’s a moron but let me tell you if their lives depended on it and you asked Rashford to race Garnaucho there would be only one winner and that’s an absolute. We saw glimpses yesterday evening, he has not lost his pace it’s a myth, he’s just not interested and that’s a whole different conversation because Wilcox and Ashworth should be dealing with that!
 
Woziak said:
Rashford is miles quicker than Garnaucho go to a live game ask any , Zirkzee has a decent turn of pace but it’s a big unit, Kobbie I’m not sure about he seems to struggle to catch players when he’s running back, Bruno can be deceptively quick especially over 5-10 yards but Rashford at full fitness is United fastest player with Hojlund and Dalot close seconds
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I'd agree with you on Garnacho, and yet according to the official PL stats, Garnacho is our fastest player this season in terms of top speed and 6th in the league overall. Maybe it's his acceleration that's the problem. Rashford is 10th in that list.
 
elisha27 said:
I'd agree with you on Garnacho, and yet according to the official PL stats, Garnacho is our fastest player this season in terms of top speed and 6th in the league overall. Maybe it's his acceleration that's the problem. Rashford is 10th in that list.
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Because Rashford can’t be assed and no wonder why when we wanted him subbed and dropped our clueless coach didn’t do a thing, now Rashford trying to play himself to form as soon as he scores or assists he gets pulled or dropped.

Garnaucho might have had a quicker sprint speed than Walker this season too but put them in a 100m race there’s only one winner. I actually think Hojlund is quicker than Garnaucho, after all he has sprinting in his genes but running fast with a ball is different.
 
Pace isn't the issue, de Ligt has shown himself to be capable over distance.

Again it comes down to tactics leaving the players wildly exposed.
 
Woziak said:
At 26 you don’t lose pace, most of the 100m sprint champions reach peak sprint speed at 25 to 32, Walker is also over 34 but because of his Jamaican heritage and twitch fibre muscles like Rashford they have increased acceleration, he might not be trying because he can’t stand the coach and thinks he’s a moron but let me tell you if their lives depended on it and you asked Rashford to race Garnaucho there would be only one winner and that’s an absolute. We saw glimpses yesterday evening, he has not lost his pace it’s a myth, he’s just not interested and that’s a whole different conversation because Wilcox and Ashworth should be dealing with that!
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That does not apply for everyone though, as players put on weight at different ages and just peak differently.
 
Hammondo said:
I would put Garnacho ahead of Rashford and Mainoo + zirkzee ahead of Bruno.
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Rashford isn't as fast as he used to be, but he's still faster than Garnacho who isn't really 'that' fast. I would think that Hojlund, Dalot and Rashford are the fastest players in the squad, probably in that order although it'd be fairly close between them.
 
Attack we are ok, defensively very poor and the telling point is the lack of awareness, when defending, a good example is the first goal vs spurs, totally was not aware on that side of johnson making that run just ignored him and its costing us.
 
Hammondo said:
That does not apply for everyone though, as players put on weight at different ages and just peak differently.
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Rashford put on weight, your kidding right he’s barely 70kg and 6’1, he will be 50 and probably no more than 75-77kg, he’s naturally athletic, Rashford has very few physical issues but a whole heap of mental ones mostly caused by fans constantly calling him out and coaches just not getting him!

Trust me change the coach, Appoint a coach who really really likes him like Tuchel, Xavi, Zidane, Conte or Thomas Frank and he’ll excel.

They would use him as a striker that stays up for the counter, Ole used him correctly but tactically Ole couldn’t adapt to different systems when teams worked out his formation.
 
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