What can fans do to stop the vicious circle

Cessna

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Yes. Yet another thread about the new regime.
Old manager out. New manager in. Hope is ignited.
I wonder if the members in here can be introspective and think about it.
 
What can we do? Accept it.

Football clubs sack underperforming managers. It's completely normal.
 
Stop being too attached to managers. ETH was sacked one year too late. Some fans feel that it is 'gentlemanly' to stick with managers even when the sacking is long overdue. Mediocrity yields mediocrity. Fans need to be more objective and less passionate about transferring players and sacking managers - one aspect we, fans, are terrible at.
 
How do we stop the rain? we can't.
Use an umbrella to protect yourself from getting wet.

How do we stop the club's vicious cycle? we can't.
Expect nothing that will hurt you and protect yourself.
 
Wait and be patient and trust the new owners who are actually hiring experts in the field to set things right.
 
Accept that managers in their 3rd season should have a clear style of play and be getting results, if they're not, the last thing they need is more time. All clubs change their managers within a 3 year window. We're not special.

Remember that you support Manchester United and winning games in the league is our bread and butter. If the manager isn't doing that for a prolonged stretch then he has to go, regardless of how much time he's had or how much backing he's had.

And managers don't need 'their own players' before they can be judged. That doesn't happen at any other football club.
 
I reckon some fans could do with being less reactive to the stirrings of the ABU press, however, on the other hand, don't be so sentimental.

Omar's 2 year trial period idea is perfect, I feel: Be patient and stick with players or managers for 2 years, if said player or manager has been given a fair go and is not showing an upward trend, no one should begrudge fans running out of patience.
 
There’s no vicious cycle. Manchester United is simply operating like any other club. If a manager underperforms you sack them, it’s pretty simple.

People need to move on from the notion of a manager staying at a club for +5 years. That’s an increasingly rare thing in football.

Hopefully with the new processes and individuals in place, we start signing the right players and find the right manager, until we have to find the next right manager again.
 
There’s nothing we can or should do. The issue is not us sacking managers or not giving them enough support, time, backing etc. The only (but monumental) issue has been the managers not being up to the task - something that’s near impossible to discern before hiring them.

Let’s hope Amorim fits the bill. If he doesn’t, pressure will rightly mount, he will be sacked and we restart the process of identifying the right manager.
 
Design a banner that says "It's a myth that we'll turn on you if you get rid of Rashford and Shaw, we won't" and fund a plane to fly it over OT every game
 
We need to stop this narrative that the job is a poisoned chalice or that's we're somehow churning through a tonne of managers.

We had five permanent managers in over a decade under the previous regimes - Woodward and Murtough / Arnold

This is the first hire under the new regime of Ashworth / Berrada. It's a completely different scenario this time around. Previous managers fell to player power and lack of support/direction from the executives. EtH was appalling in every single sense and was rightly sacked.
 
Ironically if a vicious cycle exists it is sticking with a manager and giving him support beyond the point where it is obvious things are not working, not as the thread implies sacking a manager and hiring a new one!

The fans have given every manager every support to succeed, the difference this time will be whether now the structure and support from above will be better and whether Amorim can take advantage of it.
 
Match going locals will rightly always support the manager, players and club at matches with singing and chanting, even at 4-0 down.

If you live 3000 miles away I suppose you could stop clicking on United related links or something. Maybe make a podcast for attention.
 
Lentwood said:
We need to stop this narrative that the job is a poisoned chalice or that's we're somehow churning through a tonne of managers.
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TsuWave said:
There’s no vicious cycle. Manchester United is simply operating like any other club. If a manager underperforms you sack them, it’s pretty simple.

People need to move on from the notion of a manager staying at a club for +5 years. That’s an increasingly rare thing in football.
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I like these "answers" to the question.
I saw this reasoning a lot with EtH:
I don't want to sack yet another manager because it didn't work so far.
Every new manager deserves a clean slate. That goes the both ways.
 
Nothing... but at the least some of them can stop being such negative cnuts
 
Nothing, fans are irrelevant to the football club, as shown by the total failure of the Glazer protests.
 
Get behind the team and offer some support rather than constantly moaning. Rome wasn’t built in a day.
 
One thing Man United fans need to stop is giving any time or thought into the fan channels, I.e United Stand.

They’ve become more toxic than AFTV did for Arsenal, and that idiot Goldbridge needs to disappear. I respect his hustle and he’s done well for himself, but no self-respecting United fan should be engaging with that shite.
 
I tried to google the effect on players, when fans support their team, and I found this:

"Players often hear the crowd and are spurred on for one last big effort. One study found that when athletes receive frequent encouragement, effort levels increased by up to 7%. Performing in front of a crowd can also provide a positive distraction from fatigue".
 
I need to take a good, long look in the mirror, as my conduct as a fan has fallen far below the standards I expect of myself.
 
Do not be attached to managers, most of them will fail, and persisting with failures will inevitably make things worse. Judge them objectively, not on some sentimentality that giving them enough time, they will become good. I would argue that every manager we had should have been sacked much earlier, in case of EtH, roughly a year earlier than he did.

It would also help if we hire genuinely good managers though.

But ultimately, it is the hierarchy/board who will make us successful or not.
 
NotoriousISSY said:
They’ve become more toxic than AFTV did for Arsenal, and that idiot Goldbridge needs to disappear. I respect his hustle and he’s done well for himself, but no self-respecting United fan should be engaging with that shite.
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United Stand followers seem like just that. Followers in a cult. The ,most vocal ones make it look so at least. Reading the comments, it does look like there are some people there who make sense and probably follow it for a laugh more than for facts and truths.
 
Well the cycle ended on Monday so let's see.

The cycle was the recruitment of players, managers and coaching staff by those who were not experienced, respected or knowledgeable about football.

We now have people who have good reputations within the game and they will be hiring their first manager under this new structure this week.

Now these people might end up being rubbish, we will have to wait and see but this is the first time they are getting their man so it is something totally new.

If they aren't upto it what can the average fan do? Very little, try and take joy watching us when you can.
 
Cessna said:
United Stand followers seem like just that. Followers in a cult. The ,most vocal ones make it look so at least. Reading the comments, it does look like there are some people there who make sense and probably follow it for a laugh more than for facts and truths.
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Yes it is just a YouTube channel but The United Stand injected delusion and toxicity in the bloodstream of the fanbase. All for their pockets and nothing to benefit the club or the fanbase.
 
Cessna said:
I like these "answers" to the question.
I saw this reasoning a lot with EtH:
I don't want to sack yet another manager because it didn't work so far.
Every new manager deserves a clean slate. That goes the both ways.
Click to expand...
What makes those attitudes even more bizarre is when you look at where all the managers we sacked currently are.

Moyes - unemployed
Lvg - unemployed
Mourinho - in the Turkish league
Solskjaer - unemployed

And then you get idiots like Neville making out we’ve constantly hired top class managers and their careers have gone to shit post United.

Moyes never achieved anything pre United. Solskjaer only won the Norwegian league and Lvg was irrelevant at club level for a good decade before he joined us.

Mourinho was the only one who was “world class” at the time and even then he’d tanked in his final year at Chelsea.
 
We've got to start living in a post SAF world and accept that managers rarely stay for very long in a job these days. Very few PL managers are British and won't have a massive attachment to an English club (Klopp was probably an exception). As I said in another thread, if RA comes here and does really well, as an Iberian, there's a fair chance he would get tempted by Barcelona or Real Madrid sometime in the future anyway.
 
The protesting fans vs Glazers boots stomping on club's face, already did their part at some point.

As for managers who win things despite multiple problems on the inside are hardly a villains. The club had around 10 of them in whole history.
 
Steven Seagull said:
Match going locals will rightly always support the manager, players and club at matches with singing and chanting, even at 4-0 down.

If you live 3000 miles away I suppose you could stop clicking on United related links or something. Maybe make a podcast for attention.
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Apologies if I'm misunderstanding, but is this post seriously doubling down on the "fans who don't back the manager aren't real supporters" rhetoric?
 
Nothing. Thats the most frustrating part.

Other than perhaps Moyes the fans have been incredibly patient with managers who have stayed on too long
 
If Amorim isn’t good (which I absolutely hope he’s not), we sack him and move onto the next one just like every other club did between 1990-2013 because we had arguably the best football manager who ever lived and never had to worry until he decided to call it a day.

A manager/head coach getting to five years at one club is an achievement these days, so it’s foolish to think that if Amorim emulated Ferguson, in terms of achievements like a Premier League title or a Champions League title, would stay here 20+ years. He may want a new challenge after five years and he hypothetically has Premier League titles and Champions League titles if he ends up being that good.

And don’t forget, we’re dealing with first team head coaches and football directors handling stuff now. The former is short term and the latter is medium to long term.
 
Ludens the Red said:
What makes those attitudes even more bizarre is when you look at where all the managers we sacked currently are.

Moyes - unemployed
Lvg - unemployed
Mourinho - in the Turkish league
Solskjaer - unemployed

And then you get idiots like Neville making out we’ve constantly hired top class managers and their careers have gone to shit post United.

Moyes never achieved anything pre United. Solskjaer only won the Norwegian league and Lvg was irrelevant at club level for a good decade before he joined us.

Mourinho was the only one who was “world class” at the time and even then he’d tanked in his final year at Chelsea.
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First point, slightly disingenuous.
  • Moyes has just done very well at West Ham. They've rolled the dice on replacing him because they've delusions of grandeur, in part because of how well he'd done with them, including winning the Conference League and getting them to the semi-finals of the Europa.
  • Mourinho was also on the downward spiral, and I have to agree with Sir Bobby that he was never the right character for the club, but he did manage to guide Spurs to a cup final (and was then sacked right before it), and has since won the Conference League with Roma and got them to the final of the Europa.
  • van Gaal effectively retired after us, other than coming back for a brief stint to manage the Dutch national team again.
  • Solskjaer is about the only fair one there to be pointing at and going "unemployed after us".

Second point, I remember you as making one of the most mental posts about new managers that I've ever seen. So mental, that I've been able to easily find it with a quick search:

Get in a coach who’s proven in developing a system with whatever players he’s given (and lesser players at that). Non high maintenance, someone who hasn’t worked at too many big clubs. And Don’t worry too much about trophies won or reputation. Would love to see us go down this route.
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https://www.redcafe.net/threads/erik-ten-hag-2022-23-2023-24.470032/post-31409926 (can't quote as the thread is locked).

Moyes had essentially established Everton as the league's "fifth" club during the "Big Four" era of dominance. He pretty much perfectly met your criteria there, and yet now his lack of achievement prior to United is the mark against him. You were also suggesting De Zerbi as an option as recently as April, a man who has also won nothing in his career as a manager, and who guided Brighton to just 6 wins in his final 31 league games.

What exactly made De Zerbi a better prospect in 2024 than Moyes was in 2013? This also isn't to say I wanted Moyes, because I thought he was, at best, an extremely underwhelming and not remotely inspiring choice to replace Fergie.

As for the others:
  • van Gaal clearly was not irrelevant to club football "a good decade" before we hired him. We hired him in the summer of 2014, and he'd won the double in Germany in 2010, when Bayern had only won one of the previous three titles. I'd argue that it was still too far in the past, but let's not just start making things up.
  • Mourinho had basically made a career of "tanking" is final year everywhere (which is partly why I never wanted him), but he had won the Premier League basically 12 months before we hired him.
  • Solskjaer obviously proved not to be close to their level, but what had Guardiola done before the Barcelona job? What had Zidane done before the Real Madrid job (or indeed since his most recent departure)?
 
I find the argument that United have had a managerial merry-go-round utterly baffling. The only permanent manager who got less than 2 years was Moyes. The rest all got about 2.25 seasons and were fired after a long series of piss-poor results.

I say this as someone who wanted Ten Hag to be given one more chance after the cup final, but who absolutely accepts he had to go after the Spurs game, let lone a few more bad results later.

Clubs like Madrid, Bayern, Barcelona, PSG, Chelsea, Inter, Juve etc are all capable of sacking managers after 1 significant bad result (e.g. losing 7-0 to a bitter rival) and they would also sack the next guy 3 games later if they weren't working out. I'd argue United and our fans are the paragons of patience with managers and, given the league performances, it's surprising we've had as few managers as we have had.
 
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