Do business early
What approach would you like to see from us in coming transfer windows?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
As others say, we need a cb and cm and I can see one or both being marqee signings. Personally I love a big signing from time to time and if you mix that with exciting young players I'm happy. We just signed Di Maria and Falcao in the space of a week and that was a bloody rush.
I don't think we are becoming Madrid-lite.
How are the signings of Falcao and Di Maria any different to that of Juan Seba Veron? World class players, finished article, and record fees.
How are the signings of Shaw and Herrera any different to those of Nani or Carrick, in terms of age range and money spent (taking football inflation into account)?
Sam Pilger was spot on. We are just doing what we've always done except we took a 5-year hiatus from that when the Glazers took over. We have had to spend so much in one window to rectify the shortcomings of windows past.
We still need quality at centre-back and central midfield. We need to spend whatever it takes for the right players in those positions, simple as. Seems to make sense to try to do it in as short a time as possible so they can all gel, so one transfer window is obviously preferable to three, say.
How are the signings of Falcao and Di Maria any different to that of Juan Seba Veron? World class players, finished article, and record fees.
How are the signings of Shaw and Herrera any different to those of Nani or Carrick, in terms of age range and money spent (taking football inflation into account)?
Sam Pilger was spot on. We are just doing what we've always done except we took a 5-year hiatus from that when the Glazers took over. We have had to spend so much in one window to rectify the shortcomings of windows past.
We still need quality at centre-back and central midfield. We need to spend whatever it takes for the right players in those positions, simple as. Seems to make sense to try to do it in as short a time as possible so they can all gel, so one transfer window is obviously preferable to three, say.
Smart Business like Bayern.
If not that then something like Chelski this summer.
If not that then something like Chelski this summer.
Sign a centre back and central midfielder in the next summer and resign falcao. after that, nothing.
Sign Ronaldo back and Reus too if possible.
A mixture of established players and players expecting to hit a high level soon.
Right back needed to compete with Rafael also. Coleman would be a good fit and may the best man win.
I want us to now try to create a, kind of, playing identity and settle on a formation we'll be using for the next few years. At the moment it looks like LVG is doing exactly that, so now we can settle players into proper positions and get rid of the extras we dont need. Then we can go on and buy players according to positions as opposed to looking at a player and going 'oh hes a top player lets buy him and shove him in anywhere'.
This.
In short term, perhaps we might need to strengthen our defence and central midfield but I would like to give the current players there a chance before buying someone in say January. Ideally we need specialist cover for full-backs but in the centre-back department, I am willing to give Rojo, Smalling, Jones, Evans and Blackett another chance before going out to buy an established centre back. Also curious to see how Blind, Herrera and Di Maria will function before we decide to go out and buy a combative midfielder in the mould of a Vidal or Strootman. We do need better quality cover in midfield though but that can be addressed next season as we are only challenging on two fronts as of now.
I wouldn't mind us following SAF's transfer strategy where he went for value in the latter part of his career, with some slight tweaks of course. SAF strategy was a viable and a sustainable one where he targeted youngsters with potential more often than not instead of splurging the cash on short-term targets (with RVP being the exception). The only flaws in his strategy was that he never chased the targets who mattered the most(Lucas, Nasri, Hazard, Sneijder) with full conviction, rather ducking out under the guise of no value. The youngsters being targeted were also poor (Diouf, Tosic, Obertan, Bebe, Henriquez etc) and the scouting department and management should do better in this regard.
We should follow the model of Juve who are extremely astute when it comes to the transfer market (Pirlo, Pogba, Coman, Tevez, Vidal, Llorente etc) with the added feature of splashing the cash on a target if he is really worth it, something which Juve is incapable of. When was the last time we made a bargain signing ala Vidic/Evra or bought a youngster for peanuts who became a successful first-teamer? I can only think of Chicharito and Rafael but you can't label them as roaring successes unless you take only one season into account. Januzaj is more of an academy product imo.
I just fear we might lose out to Chelsea and City on the youth recruitment front. City have a state of the art youth academy and are poaching promising youngsters from all over the world. They will reap the benefits of this scheme in the near future and besides they might even start intensifying their youth recruitment policy and using these players as a viable alternative to making big money signings, with FFP hounding them as well. Chelsea too have been signing youngsters wholesale and have a ridiculous loan policy which is ultimately beneficial to them in terms of revenue and potential first team players. A world where youngsters start getting chances in the first team for City and Chelsea might sound far-fetched but both these teams are stable whilst having solid cores and can afford to be patient without making knee-jerk short-term big signings esp in this new FFP era. I am just not convinced by our youth recruitment policy which has been dismal in recent seasons and I don't see the steps being taken to improve on this front.
A top CB and a top CM. After that, go for young promising players. And Reus of course.
I see no reason why we shouldn't continue to spend big. We've got the gift of FFP for the moment and we need to make best use of it. Chelsea and City will soon return to favourable positions with regards to FFP and we need to make good use of this current window of opportunity.
Varela's on loan at Madrid.
Strootman and maybe a top class-defender, that's it imo. And of course selling some players
Assess and identify the main areas of weakness in the squad and look to rectify those deficiencies early in the transfer window. Opposed to neglecting our flaws for years, like we have done in the past with central midfield.
Have a clear and thorough transfer strategy and don't sign players for the sake of signing a very good player. The Falcao case is a bit of an outlier, as two forwards left and RVP and Rooney are arguably past their best, but even then, LVG used the common phrase 'when a player like that becomes available, you sign him'. I don't think we should adhere to that transfer policy.
Just a final point. Our spending and quantity of players brought in has been necessary, but I hope this isn't a common theme. Once we recover ground and can compete with anyone, we should take note of Bayern Munich's transfer business and conduct ourselves in the market like them. Ideally, we will be at a stage soon, where only one star player is signed each summer and the rest can be shrewd business for low figures or on emerging stars.
Have a clear and thorough transfer strategy and don't sign players for the sake of signing a very good player. The Falcao case is a bit of an outlier, as two forwards left and RVP and Rooney are arguably past their best, but even then, LVG used the common phrase 'when a player like that becomes available, you sign him'. I don't think we should adhere to that transfer policy.
Just a final point. Our spending and quantity of players brought in has been necessary, but I hope this isn't a common theme. Once we recover ground and can compete with anyone, we should take note of Bayern Munich's transfer business and conduct ourselves in the market like them. Ideally, we will be at a stage soon, where only one star player is signed each summer and the rest can be shrewd business for low figures or on emerging stars.
Nothing new but a top class defender and a CM ( probably Strootman as it stands ) will be good enough, if we don't do any business ( and don't suffer from injury crysis meanwhile ) I won't be crying either. Next summer window however, I'd like us to fix those positions that need fixing and maybe buy a promising youngster or two and try to develop them the right way. I'm really hoping that we manage to get this Odegaard kid, looks a real deal.
I know, but I don't think we will be able to complete the transfer activity in january. That set up was for next season.
CB, CM and wingers. Cannot rely on Di Maria as our only source of pace.
Agreed. I hope we go for Strootman in January, but if a suitable and top-class centre back isn't available, as I don't expect it to be, I would wait until summer and go all out for Hummels.
A top CB and CM, as well as Odegaard, another and possibly a right back like Coleman if Rafael's fitness still flounders over the next two windows could be great business. Securing Falcao on a permanent basis is imperative also.
completely agree. short term spending to strengthen CM and CB postions is imperative. Though such a policy might seem city or madrid like to some people theres no arguing that its what we need at the moment. when we get back into the CL there would definitely be more games to be played and therefore more opportunities for young players.
on the subject of rough diamonds anybody seen Morgan Sanson play. he seems tailor made for united.
I'd go balls out for Pogba. But we'll almost certainly need to be in the CL and go silly money. But if that's the strategy we're pursuing then do it right.
One things for sure, the papers are going to have an absolute field day with United. No rumour is going to be off limits.
One things for sure, the papers are going to have an absolute field day with United. No rumour is going to be off limits.
Agree with this and the quoted post. The CM and CB spots are the last two obvious weaknesses of our team at the moment. I'd say we should splash the cash already in January, as rumored, in order to start planning a more sensible strategy, starting next summer. As mentioned so far in this thread we need to be more attentive in the field of players who are about to break through at the highest level. The last real good signings we did in that department must have been Vidic and Evra, ages ago. We need to start spotting the Vidals, Gundogans, Kompanys etc. and strike. And of course bring in promising youngsters.
Err #BringRonaldoHome
Once we stabilize the defense and midfield then we can revert to a more conservative transfer market approach. What Id like to see is
a) we are more ruthless with the current team. One bad season should probably cost the player his first team place and a second bad season should probably cost his career at OT. United is the best club in the world. Its not a retirement home, a hospital or a child care center. If a player doesn't perform on a regular basis then he should be shown the door. Players are on a top salary. We make them millionaires while allowing them to play a sport they like. Bottom line of the story.....we owe them nothing.
b) no more squad players. A United player either has the potential to become a first teamer or he has the talent to seriously compete for a first team place. Squad players is a more politically correct way how to describe dead wood. They don't keep the top players on their toes and they act as a stumbling block to new talent coming through
c) Once a player handles a transfer request than every effort should be made to have him ushered out of the club (at a reasonable fee). Once he's gone, he's gone. No more 'I wish you were still here', or 'thanks for your service'. Playing with United is a privilege. If you cant see it like that then feck off.
Under such circumstances United should
a) keep a close eye to the youth academy. Send players to loan, keep track of their performance and reward/punish them accordingly. If a player does well then bring him back and give him a chance. If he does well on a consistent basis then the place is his even if that means benching Rooney/RVP/Ronaldo/Messi/Jesus. However if a player fail to make an impact while on loan and for no apparent reason then sell him up. If there's a chance of him doing well, then sell him with a minimum clause fee. There's no use keeping a player who wont make it at OT.
b) Same thing about the first team. If a player does well then he keeps his place even though there's a 40m rated player ahead of him in the pecking order. If not, then he loses it. Knee jerks reactions aren't always bad. It keeps players on their toes and motivate the young players to improve
c) Top players are bought IF needed and they are at the right age. We're neither hoarders nor a retirement home.
a) we are more ruthless with the current team. One bad season should probably cost the player his first team place and a second bad season should probably cost his career at OT. United is the best club in the world. Its not a retirement home, a hospital or a child care center. If a player doesn't perform on a regular basis then he should be shown the door. Players are on a top salary. We make them millionaires while allowing them to play a sport they like. Bottom line of the story.....we owe them nothing.
b) no more squad players. A United player either has the potential to become a first teamer or he has the talent to seriously compete for a first team place. Squad players is a more politically correct way how to describe dead wood. They don't keep the top players on their toes and they act as a stumbling block to new talent coming through
c) Once a player handles a transfer request than every effort should be made to have him ushered out of the club (at a reasonable fee). Once he's gone, he's gone. No more 'I wish you were still here', or 'thanks for your service'. Playing with United is a privilege. If you cant see it like that then feck off.
Under such circumstances United should
a) keep a close eye to the youth academy. Send players to loan, keep track of their performance and reward/punish them accordingly. If a player does well then bring him back and give him a chance. If he does well on a consistent basis then the place is his even if that means benching Rooney/RVP/Ronaldo/Messi/Jesus. However if a player fail to make an impact while on loan and for no apparent reason then sell him up. If there's a chance of him doing well, then sell him with a minimum clause fee. There's no use keeping a player who wont make it at OT.
b) Same thing about the first team. If a player does well then he keeps his place even though there's a 40m rated player ahead of him in the pecking order. If not, then he loses it. Knee jerks reactions aren't always bad. It keeps players on their toes and motivate the young players to improve
c) Top players are bought IF needed and they are at the right age. We're neither hoarders nor a retirement home.
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I really think our main priorities should be a RB then a CM. Coleman would top my list.
I think we'll secure 3 more signings then we'll tone down our spending enormously.However if we ever want a player from now on I don't think we'll haggle for a few million, I think we'll be ruthless in that aspect.
If I had my absolute muppet hat on - id say: add Hummels, Reus & DM (or Strootman).
Get rid of 1 of Rooney/RvP/Mata & all the dead wood in the squad (that should raise £30 - £50m & they can be replaced by youth) & that should be the end.
Net spend around £20 - £30m. (I haven't factored in signing Falcao yet
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Get rid of 1 of Rooney/RvP/Mata & all the dead wood in the squad (that should raise £30 - £50m & they can be replaced by youth) & that should be the end.
Net spend around £20 - £30m. (I haven't factored in signing Falcao yet
)Fantastic post! I wholeheartedly agree with the theme, but disagree with some of the details.
First off, the overall theme you're advocating seems to me be that we should be more ruthless. Completely 100% agree. For all the tales of Ferguson's ruthlessness, it sadly dwindled towards the end of his reign. The only proof we need is the fact that we are still paying the wages of Nani, Anderson and Valencia. He persisted with Hargreaves until the bitter end. We lacked the ruthlessness, and I hope we are witnessing under Van Gaal a swift end to the that.
Now, I agree that we should have a direct competitor for every starting 11 position, bar keeper. However, I disagree that we shouldn't have squad players. Especially if we get back in Europe. Here are my reasons why:
I think we should consider that "squad player" has been misused and abused on here for far too long. In the past, we have had very successful "squad" players, who I would also consider "specialists".
Solksjaer, Larsson & Chicharito - specialist as a super sub striker
Butt and Ji Sung - specialists in smothering an oppo player
John O'Shea - a Swiss Army knife, could cover for injuries.
Now on the other hand, too many in my opinion got classified as "squad" players when in fact they were in legitimate contention for a starting position: Valencia, Young, Hargreaves, Nani, Buttner, Kagawa, Anderson and Cleverley. These were not "specialists" but either starting 11 players or their direct competition. I'm as guilty as anyone of thinking of these as squad players but the more I think about your post, the more I've realised my own definition of a squad player needs to change.
I am very much in favour of having specialists as squad players. The rest I agree with, we should be brutally ruthless with.
As for getting rid of players that request a transfer, I'd agree 90% of the time. I agree with us shipping off Welbeck. However, I strongly suspect your intended target was Rooney. I disagree with respect to Rooney, and that's a really a topic for a Rooney thread.
Great post. Really made me think!
I agree. In the CB it depends on Rojo imo, if he is the real deal, then everything looks much better, if he isn't better than what we already have than we could struggle at the back. It also depends on how the other defenders play this season. If Evans continue like in the last games then I can see him on the "deadwood" list. If a top class CB is available we should look at him. But RB is more important, Coleman and Strootman should be our main business. We only have Rafael at RB and to be honest, I don't think he will ever stay fit and be a starter for years at United. CB is the third target, but depends on how this season will work out, someone like Depay is already a luxury player for me, but I like the idea of signing him as top class prospect more than signing another deluxe attacking player.
We are 3 players away from being on paper as good as any team in Europe for the starting positions IMO. Coleman, Strootman and any over man as CB and we are good to go...
-------.........DDG
Coleman...Jones....??.....Shaw
............Strootman...........
...Herrara........Di Maria
.............Adnan
.........RVP....Falcao.......
-------.........DDG
Coleman...Jones....??.....Shaw
............Strootman...........
...Herrara........Di Maria
.............Adnan
.........RVP....Falcao.......
Make falcao permanent. Sign Strootman and a top draw centre back.
Then I'd personally like to see some good young, not as well known talents, and develop them into top players. Signings such as Vidic, Evra and Ronaldo.
But I wouldn't be surprised if we sign another world class surprise which we all don't expect.
The last years it's been Van Persie, Mata, Di Maria, Falcao. Would absolutely love to see Hummels, Varane.
Then I'd personally like to see some good young, not as well known talents, and develop them into top players. Signings such as Vidic, Evra and Ronaldo.
But I wouldn't be surprised if we sign another world class surprise which we all don't expect.
The last years it's been Van Persie, Mata, Di Maria, Falcao. Would absolutely love to see Hummels, Varane.
Our squad still isn't fully brought up to the level of competing for the title, sadly our squad was not invested in enough since Ronaldo's departure so we're gonna spend big again either in January or the summer.
After we've a top squad built and clicking I hope we'll continue to add world class replacements (1 each window) while investing in you coming potential world class youths. This is how Bayern have done it the past 3 years and have got to the squad they have because of it. They had foundation players and built on it by adding world class players any time the opportunity came knocking. Sadly though they've got outrageous bargains and most of their world class players which we will not so be prepared for more whining.
After we've a top squad built and clicking I hope we'll continue to add world class replacements (1 each window) while investing in you coming potential world class youths. This is how Bayern have done it the past 3 years and have got to the squad they have because of it. They had foundation players and built on it by adding world class players any time the opportunity came knocking. Sadly though they've got outrageous bargains and most of their world class players which we will not so be prepared for more whining.
Buy the best players available, only in positions that need to be filled, and as quickly as possible.
That article says that Ronaldo contract expires in 2016.I thought it was 2018?
You disagreed with my post however you mentioned players which are the perfect examples of what I was thinking. Ole, Larsson, Chicarito, Butt, Ji Sung Park and even John OShea (first year) were/are all players who had the quality, the tenacity and the attitude of keeping the first team players on their toes. They were dependable, respected, they accepted the bench but weren't too comfortable with their role and they would provide quality whenever they played in the team. Ole challenged Cole and Yorke for a first team place for quite a number of years (Cantona saw him as his ideal partner) and he did sent Beckham on the bench a year before the latter left the club. Ji Sung Park workrate was nearly at par with Gattuso's and he was a instrumental in allowing us to play Scholes, Ronaldo, Tevez and Rooney together without ruining the balance of the side. Butt made a superior Scholes sweat for a first team place during the Ginger Prince early part of career.
I am not suggesting a team of 22 world class players backed by 7-8 youths. What I am suggesting is that each first team player should have competition, irrespective if he's called Jonny Evans or if he's called Angel Di Maria. A first team player who had 2-3 bad games must feel the pressure that there's someone capable of nicking his place and its only a matter before the manager will give them a go. Do you think that the likes of Herrera or Di Maria can ever feel that type of 'fear' out of players like Fellaini, Fletcher, Young or Ando? I much doubt it. Under such circumstances Id rather see the club cut the losses and rely on youths then stick on overpaid deadwood with no role but to merely cover a position and which end up acting as a stumbling block to youths and new talent. Who knows, maybe by giving youths a chance we may even unearth another Januzaj or Wilson.
Ronaldo and Pogba next year.
It is until 2018. I guess the article is just trying to create speculation.
See where we stand in January. If we're looking strong and have a good seat for a CL spot, then I'd say bring in players ahead for CL in advance (as well as helping us solidifying qualification to it).
The same approach that led to bringing in Shaw and Herrera. Filling positions of need with exciting young players who can hit their peak here.
Also, not buying players for 3 at the back.
Also, not buying players for 3 at the back.