Westminster Politics

the 100bn is just going onto general government debt. for "government debt" read "public debt minus the mutli-millionaire class". so if it is as described, poor people are paying, again, for corporate failures and yet no sight of nationalization. that's insanity.

100bn where's the magic money tree now? also, when did the news-media, including the bbc, just become a form of tv marketing? sycophants peddling "news" like a used car salesman. "i'm here in some really personal fruit and veg shop to explain to the idiots why they need to support something they have no say in".

between this and track and trace the government will have spent as much money as corbyn outlined for an entire nationalization scheme, one which would have included the companies whose profits are now being artificially maintained. the difference is that corbyn, whatever you think of him, wanted to give the state back its public welfare. the tories want to give you dole and dress it up as liberal economics.
 
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neverdie said:
the 100bn is just going onto general government debt. for "government debt" read "public debt minus the mutli-millionaire class". so if it is as described, poor people are paying, again, for corporate failures and yet no sight of nationalization. that's insanity.

100bn where's the magic money tree now? also, when did the news-media, including the bbc, just become a form of tv marketing? sycophants peddling "news" like a used car salesman. "i'm here in some really personal fruit and veg shop to explain to the idiots why they need to support something they have no say in".

between this and track and trace the government will have spent as much money as corbyn outlined for an entire nationalization scheme, one which would have included the companies whose profits are now being artificially maintained. the difference is that corbyn, whatever you think of him, wanted to give the state back its public welfare. the tories want to give you dole and dress it up as liberal economics.
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Nationalisation wouldn't of necceserely made much difference to the current energy crisis. The wholesale price of Gas would still be very high and we would still be far to reliant on it for electricity production meaning bill would still be going up.

The difference of course is that Corbyn would likely come up with an idea of taxing the rich and big corporate companies more to pay for a scheme to control how much the general public have to pay for it.

Whereas the tories are going to borrow to pay for it and then make the general public pay it back via more austerity and cuts and stealth taxes.
 
Longshanks said:
The difference of course is that Corbyn would likely come up with an idea of taxing the rich and big corporate companies more to pay for a scheme to control how much the general public have to pay for it.

Whereas the tories are going to borrow to pay for it and then make the general public pay it back via more austerity and cuts and stealth taxes.
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the economy has crashed because of the neoliberalist project. in turn, the public must now be "given" the things it should, and once did, actually own. and it all goes into the public debt column. how much do you reckon the ruling class will be hit by these debt traps? i don't think they take account of the trillions of pounds hidden in tax havens. and even then so many billionaires and multi millionaires dodge the meagre share of tax they are expected to pay in the first instance.

the difference is corbyn would have advocated a social welfare initiative. the government is advocating a corporate welfare initiative. the public will get nothing from this longterm as it stands except an enormous amount of debt.

the problem is that energy companies and other key industries should never be allowed to become private property. it's an assault on reason and tells you all you need to know regarding what the richest think of you and us more generally that they even attempt to continue such actions.

we have a system in which the richer you become the less legitimate it is for your wealth and income to be taxed to help the majority of the same society. there are no real nationalists in government, only capitalists.
 
De Selby said:
What a take, eh?
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Little wonder we're stuck in a perpetual spiral of Tory doom, death and destruction with people thinking shit like that. Feels endless and it's depressing as feck. fecking using shite like 'Jezbelloh'. It's a disgrace.
 
Starmer trying desperately hard not to burst out laughing at PMQs, can't believe his luck he's got Truss across the house for next two years.

This is massive open goal for Labour now, let's hope they hit the target this time.
 
redcucumber said:
Little wonder we're stuck in a perpetual spiral of Tory doom, death and destruction with people thinking shit like that. Feels endless and it's depressing as feck. fecking using shite like 'Jezbelloh'. It's a disgrace.
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I assume you are unfamiliar with Sun's oeuvre then?
 
FootballHQ said:
Starmer trying desperately hard not to burst out laughing at PMQs, can't believe his luck he's got Truss across the house for next two years.

This is massive open goal for Labour now, let's hope they hit the target this time.
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Yeah… let’s see how that turns out.

Anything other than controlled opposition would stroll into power over the next year. Let’s see.
 
FootballHQ said:
Starmer trying desperately hard not to burst out laughing at PMQs, can't believe his luck he's got Truss across the house for next two years.

This is massive open goal for Labour now, let's hope they hit the target this time.
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Labour have had open goals for the past 7 years at least. Trouble is every time they are through on goal they run back down the other end and put the ball in their own net.
 
FootballHQ said:
Starmer trying desperately hard not to burst out laughing at PMQs, can't believe his luck he's got Truss across the house for next two years.

This is massive open goal for Labour now, let's hope they hit the target this time.
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Im very critical of Starmer for a number of reasons but one thing he’s excellent at it cross examination as per his background. He’s forensic and tied Johnson in knots a number of times. His main problem though is that he’s just not very good at getting snappy one liners in or making the jabs land and resonate. So his meticulous taking down of his opposite number is great if you enjoy long form politics and enjoy watching it unfold and understand what is actually going on but it’s also then forgotten when BBC turns over from PMQs because then show a “balanced” version of events which is one win for Starmer and one win for his opposite number. Obviously this isn’t balanced at all if Starmer has twenty significant “wins” and his opponent just the one.
 
Pexbo said:
Im very critical of Starmer for a number of reasons but one thing he’s excellent at it cross examination as per his background. He’s forensic and tied Johnson in knots a number of times. His main problem though is that he’s just not very good at getting snappy one liners in or making the jabs land and resonate. So his meticulous taking down of his opposite number is great if you enjoy long form politics and enjoy watching it unfold and understand what is actually going on but it’s also then forgotten when BBC turns over from PMQs because then show a “balanced” version of events which is one win for Starmer and one win for his opposite number. Obviously this isn’t balanced at all if Starmer has twenty significant “wins” and his opponent just the one.
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Advantage Johnson has over Truss in that scenario is the soundbites like "captain hindsight" are lapped up by right wing media. I don't see Truss consistantly capable of putting out those lines especially with the economic situation we're going into. Mind you I did chuckle about her North London jibe at Labour.

We're pretty much in 2008/09 terrority now. Economic climate plummeting, one party in number 10 for over a decade and general fatigue so Labour is much nearer getting into power than any point under Corbyn even if they're going to need some support but that's nothing new.
 
FootballHQ said:
Advantage Johnson has over Truss in that scenario is the soundbites like "captain hindsight" are lapped up by right wing media. I don't see Truss consistantly capable of putting out those lines especially with the economic situation we're going into. Mind you I did chuckle about her North London jibe at Labour.

We're pretty much in 2008/09 terrority now. Economic climate plummeting, one party in number 10 for over a decade and general fatigue so Labour is much nearer getting into power than any point under Corbyn even if they're going to need some support but that's nothing new.
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Jibes like captain hindsight aren’t off the cuff remarks that just so happen to land, they’re carefully planned by their advisors and script writers and crowbarred into their responses. The right wing media are in cahoots with Johnson’s team and the drilling home of soundbites like that is a pincer action repetition by both the traditional media and the many bot networks that are a cancer to social media.
 
Branding this the Truss Tax is a good tactic. That's the kind of thing that works, however after this initial uproar people will just be happy their bills are not going up. Make the most of it as a character attack that sticks as a judgement.
 
FootballHQ said:
This is massive open goal for Labour now, let's hope they hit the target this time.
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FootballHQ said:
Advantage Johnson has over Truss in that scenario is the soundbites like "captain hindsight" are lapped up by right wing media. I don't see Truss consistantly capable of putting out those lines especially with the economic situation we're going into. Mind you I did chuckle about her North London jibe at Labour.
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They will be written and created for her by speech writers / political advisers.

And in turn the right-wing media will propel them out and create a character for her.
 
Only difference from that PMQs is Truss seems to be an open believer in trickle down economics whereas Johnson had that as his governing philosophy but disguised it under vague populist soundbites. He was also against a windfall tax when it was raised at PMQs months ago but quickly moved on without explaining whereas Truss defended her opposition to it as putting off investment even as the companies make record profits.
 
Boycott said:
Only difference from that PMQs is Truss seems to be an open believer in trickle down economics whereas Johnson had that as his governing philosophy but disguised it under vague populist soundbites. He was also against a windfall tax when it was raised at PMQs months ago but quickly moved on without explaining whereas Truss defended her opposition to it as putting off investment even as the companies make record profits.
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Truss has already made mistakes, but this could prove crucial.

Even with their press handlers giving it both barrels over the next couple of years, I don't think they can pursuade enough people to fall for that trickle down bollocks again.
 
Pexbo said:
Im very critical of Starmer for a number of reasons but one thing he’s excellent at it cross examination as per his background. He’s forensic and tied Johnson in knots a number of times. His main problem though is that he’s just not very good at getting snappy one liners in or making the jabs land and resonate. So his meticulous taking down of his opposite number is great if you enjoy long form politics and enjoy watching it unfold and understand what is actually going on but it’s also then forgotten when BBC turns over from PMQs because then show a “balanced” version of events which is one win for Starmer and one win for his opposite number. Obviously this isn’t balanced at all if Starmer has twenty significant “wins” and his opponent just the one.
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The word balanced is the issue the BBC have. It's written in the charter that they have to be balanced and show both sides to have an equal argument. The word should have read impartial as they then could just tell the news as it is, rather than be forced to make everything seem equal.

Nicky Campbell has been very vocal about this on radio 5 and wants it changed, but I'm pretty sure that when the charter was written it was agreed by the government for that reason.
 
Ramshock said:
Why are you brits so shit at getting a half decent government? Was Gordon Brown and Labour really that fecking bad that you are going into your 13th year of Tory led bullshit?
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media is largely to blame, given the fact most voters can barely manage any critical thought and just react to whatever the press delivers
 
Ramshock said:
Why are you brits so shit at getting a half decent government? Was Gordon Brown and Labour really that fecking bad that you are going into your 13th year of Tory led bullshit?
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they were in office when the crash happened. it was the gop in america. whoever was in office at that time, by and large, got the blame for it in their host country. the irony is that they all deserved some of the blame but that the opposition party is just as terrible. truthfully, most democracies now offer very little choice between the parties that can *realistically* be elected. there is some, a country like france is better than britain or america for example, but overall the picture is bleak and that's a feature of democracy, or has been for the past four decades.

if labour were in office, they'd be doing more or less the same thing. starmer went to the centres of business and asked them "what do you want from me as labour leader". that's his default attitude. if he was to ask business' opinion and then weigh it against the overall public good, that would be something else, but i think it's clear by now that he's another version of blair without the economic base to back it up. he was elected on corbyn's manifesto. corbyn but not corbyn was the pledge; corbyn like manifesto but different personality and "healing". commenced a purge of the "left" and said pledge is long since broken.

two shades of the same shit and it's called capital(ism).
 
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