Westminster Politics

[TwoSheds]

It's not his fault he came from a different pair of legs to you.
Like you he pays tax
I'm not saying I agree with it, but as the law stands he pays whats due, which is totally different to your original claim that he pays none.

If you want to direct your anger of tax evasion, it would be better directed toward off shore corporations like Amazon, who last year got a tax rebate

I didn't say he pays none, I said he doesn't pay his fair share, I couldn't give a feck what the rules are. I'd happily slag off Amazon too but that would have feck all to do with inheritance tax tbf because Amazon isn't a person.

In case you were wondering, in the last 20 years, the FTSE has increased on average by about 2.8% above inflation annually. So his not paying inheritance tax up front would earn him more than 2% a year on average just by sticking it in a tracker and doing nothing. 2% per year is about £20m for him. And he probably earns far more than that in reality because he's rich.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I don't know you.
You do not know me
You do not know anything about me, but I can assure you I have entered this country, and others without having to show a passport going through border control
Just take a moment from your busy life, and consider who would be able to do that?

Since the UK left the EU , if you leave or enter the EU you should have your British passport stamped to prove that you have not overstayed your 90 day out of 180 day visa

In October the new EES is due to be put in place , it's been delayed one year already, so that the data of anyone entering or exiting the Schengen area is put in the system. The first time when it is put into place you will be fingerprinted and photographed and your data will be put into the system. This lasts 3 years and then has to be renewed.

 

[Matt Varnish]

I didn't say he pays none, I said he doesn't pay his fair share, I couldn't give a feck what the rules are. I'd happily slag off Amazon too but that would have feck all to do with inheritance tax tbf because Amazon isn't a person.

In case you were wondering, in the last 20 years, the FTSE has increased on average by about 2.8% above inflation annually. So his not paying inheritance tax up front would earn him more than 2% a year on average just by sticking it in a tracker and doing nothing. 2% per year is about £20m for him. And he probably earns far more than that in reality because he's rich.

The FTSE is open to anyone to speculate on it, many people do without knowing, if you have a pension or insurance policy then any profits on it are most likely made from investments on the FTSE.
You can also invest directly by buying shares, it's open to all.
The more money you have, the better the people you can pay to tell you how to avoid paying taxes and finding loopholes, again it's open to all
Your beef to me appears to be that he is rich and you are not, a situation you can change, my son makes 25k a year investing in crypto, you could too.................so why don;t you?

The Duke of Westminster has done nothing illegal, speking as some one who has lost his father, I can almost guarantee he would pay whatever he could in taxes, if it would bring his father back.

I run a business, my accountant tells me how to avoid paying tax, points out all the loopholes, I don;t pay any income tax, my business has never paid corporation tax, I get a VAT rebate almost every quarter.
Just like the Duke of Westminster I pay my profits into a trust for my sons and their children, so they wont pay inheritance tax when I go
So I guess you dislike me too

 

[TwoSheds]

The FTSE is open to anyone to speculate on it, many people do without knowing, if you have a pension or insurance policy then any profits on it are most likely made from investments on the FTSE.
You can also invest directly by buying shares, it's open to all.
The more money you have, the better the people you can pay to tell you how to avoid paying taxes and finding loopholes, again it's open to all
Your beef to me appears to be that he is rich and you are not, a situation you can change, my son makes 25k a year investing in crypto, you could too.................so why don;t you?

The Duke of Westminster has done nothing illegal, speking as some one who has lost his father, I can almost guarantee he would pay whatever he could in taxes, if it would bring his father back.

I run a business, my accountant tells me how to avoid paying tax, points out all the loopholes, I don;t pay any income tax, my business has never paid corporation tax, I get a VAT rebate almost every quarter.
Just like the Duke of Westminster I pay my profits into a trust for my sons and their children, so they wont pay inheritance tax when I go
So I guess you dislike me too

Yeah you sound like a complete cockwomble tbf. Maybe you're a lovely chap though. Either way you don't pay your fair share and you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[TheGame]

 

[Paul the Wolf]

You'd really confuse him if you told him there were two Congos.

 

[Matt Varnish]

Yeah you sound like a complete cockwomble tbf. Maybe you're a lovely chap though. Either way you don't pay your fair share and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Cockwomble ...really?
I paid my fair share for many years.
Then I found when I reached retirement age I couldn't afford it, I had to carry on working, so I started my own business, my son put me in touch with his accountant.
If it were not for him, I would be at home every day living on a pension and drawing exra benefits, what is better for me and the country, avoiding a bit of tax, or being a burden by drawing more benefits?

 

[4bars]

I don't know you.
You do not know me
You do not know anything about me, but I can assure you I have entered this country, and others without having to show a passport going through border control
Just take a moment from your busy life, and consider who would be able to do that?

Well, if you did this congratulations but you are a special case (whichever). Normal situations for normal people requires to show the passport at border controls.

So if you have/had a special treatment for whichever reason, don't be disingenuous commenting like it is the norm. 99.9% of the people has to do it. Any exception doesn't worth discussion if we are discussing the norm

 

[Matt Varnish]

Well, if you did this congratulations but you are a special case (whichever). Normal situations for normal people requires to show the passport at border controls.

So if you have/had a special treatment for whichever reason, don't be disingenuous commenting like it is the norm. 99.9% of the people has to do it. Any exception doesn't worth discussion if we are discussing the norm

I aapologise for any offence

 

[TwoSheds]

Cockwomble ...really?
I paid my fair share for many years.
Then I found when I reached retirement age I couldn't afford it, I had to carry on working, so I started my own business, my son put me in touch with his accountant.
If it were not for him, I would be at home every day living on a pension and drawing exra benefits, what is better for me and the country, avoiding a bit of tax, or being a burden by drawing more benefits?

So your business earns you enough to be able to put wealth away for your son in a trust but not enough to be able to pay tax...

Definite Maticmaker alt login.

 

[4bars]

I aapologise for any offence

Not offence, you are not honest, so that is what is telling of who you are

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

It's not illegal to leave a country. The British border control is in Calais, not in Dover. The French one is in Dover not Calais.
If you enter the EU after October you're going to be in for a shock. That's for you to discover later this year.

For the Ukranian refugees that came through France, they were turned away at the ports and told to go to the British embassy in Paris.

How do refugees get on a plane. To get a ticket you need to quote a passport or ID card number and I've usually had to show a passport and I've travelled far more than I really wanted to.
The refugees are transported to the coast and put on a small boat, they're not controlled by anyone. Only those that are intercepted which is approximately 50%

Depends on the country, it is for some people from some countries.

On the wider point about legal routes being set up. What would happen to the people being turned down through those legal routes ?

I get your argument but it is missing that point isn't it?

Unless you are saying the UK sets up legal routes and anyone can apply but if the UK declines them then France takes responsibility for those people in France who are declined by the UK. What would be the likelihood of France being prepared to do that?

Exactly...

 

[Jippy]

Yeah you sound like a complete cockwomble tbf. Maybe you're a lovely chap though. Either way you don't pay your fair share and you should be ashamed of yourself.

There's nothing wrong with tax avoidance and there are multiple government schemes to do it, eg ISAs, pensions, charitable giving etc...

 

[Buster15]

But that's my point. You might have been taxed and taxed and taxed. But the Duke of Westminster hasn't. And he is probably (literally) 10,000 times richer than you. Which is proof he hasn't been taxed and taxed and taxed.

That is a fair point.
I was referring to the average working class individual.
But yes. There is huge inequality.

 

[Jippy]

He looks genuinely perplexed. On a par with Raab not realising Britain is an island.

 

[TwoSheds]

There's nothing wrong with tax avoidance and there are multiple government schemes to do it, eg ISAs, pensions, charitable giving etc...

Depends how much tax you pay and how rich you are really. For the duke of Westminster it's wrong. For Amazon it's wrong. For you, maybe.

 

[4bars]

There's nothing wrong with tax avoidance and there are multiple government schemes to do it, eg ISAs, pensions, charitable giving etc...

Legally doesn't make it right. Specially when the legality is lobbied to favour the rich. And tax avoidance, as much as is legal, it goes against the spirit of the law that is written for tax planning like the examples that you mentioned

Rich and corporations abuse the system and loopholes and often times they create these loopholes. Is legal but is damn wrong. Why I have to pay 15-20% a year while Musk paid In 2015, $68,000 in federal income tax. In 2017, it was $65,000, and in 2018 he paid no federal income tax.

Is beyond ridiculous

 

[acnumber9]

There's nothing wrong with tax avoidance and there are multiple government schemes to do it, eg ISAs, pensions, charitable giving etc...

Tax avoidance is exploiting rules not intended for those purposes to pay less tax and is investigated by HMRC. It is nothing like ISA’s or pensions. The abuse of non dom status is tax avoidance.

 

[SilentWitness]

feck sake. This isn't even funny anymore, it's sickening that these morons can vote for something like the Rwanda bill when they have absolutely no bloody clue about anything.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Depends on the country, it is for some people from some countries.

On the wider point about legal routes being set up. What would happen to the people being turned down through those legal routes ?

I get your argument but it is missing that point isn't it?

Unless you are saying the UK sets up legal routes and anyone can apply but if the UK declines them then France takes responsibility for those people in France who are declined by the UK. What would be the likelihood of France being prepared to do that?

Exactly...

But they are. When the camps were closed down they were transferred to refugee centres throughout France but as some of these people want to go to the UK they leave the refugee centres and set off for Calais again.

I'm not talking just about France , I'm talking worldwide.
If they were not eligible to enter the UK then they should be treated the same as anyone else who has been refused asylum. The Uk don't want the refugees and want the rest of Europe to look after them despite the low numbers the UK take in.

 

[Maticmaker]

The Uk don't want the refugees and want the rest of Europe to look after them despite the low numbers the UK take in.

That 'Brexit' has a lot to answer for!!!

 

[Paul the Wolf]

That 'Brexit' has a lot to answer for!!!

Because of Brexit the UK left the Dublin Agreement. Non-stop cutting their nose off to spite their face.

 

[Maticmaker]

Definite Maticmaker alt login.

No, sorry not me..... but @Matt Varnish does 'standout'.... probably 'does what it says on the tin'

 

[CassiusClaymore]

 

[Paul the Wolf]

He probably thinks David Cameroon is an African country where they raise pigs.

 

[nickm]

Musk paid In 2015, $68,000 in federal income tax. In 2017, it was $65,000, and in 2018 he paid no federal income tax.

Is beyond ridiculous

And in 2021, Musk paid $11 billion.

 

[pacifictheme]

Simping for billionaires is incredibly embarrassing carry on.

 

[Kaos]

And in 2021, Musk paid $11 billion.

That was a large one off federal tax bill after he bought shares which were due to expire the following year, he received something like $24billion in taxable income. Outside of that he pays a pittance in federal taxes considering his wealth.

 

[Jippy]

Depends how much tax you pay and how rich you are really. For the duke of Westminster it's wrong. For Amazon it's wrong. For you, maybe.

Yep fair enough, just been thinking how it would be to move back to London, where wages are lower and tax more than double and the thought is depressing.

Legally doesn't make it right. Specially when the legality is lobbied to favour the rich. And tax avoidance, as much as is legal, it goes against the spirit of the law that is written for tax planning like the examples that you mentioned

Rich and corporations abuse the system and loopholes and often times they create these loopholes. Is legal but is damn wrong. Why I have to pay 15-20% a year while Musk paid In 2015, $68,000 in federal income tax. In 2017, it was $65,000, and in 2018 he paid no federal income tax.

Is beyond ridiculous

Tax avoidance is exploiting rules not intended for those purposes to pay less tax and is investigated by HMRC. It is nothing like ISA’s or pensions. The abuse of non dom status is tax avoidance.

Agree with all of that tbh. Though a portion of the Caf has very different views to be on what level of salary punitive taxation should be introduced though, at the risk of the bearded guy from Question Time making another appearance in this thread.

 

[Sweet Square]

Though a portion of the Caf has very different views to be on what level of salary punitive taxation should be introduced though, at the risk of the bearded guy from Question Time making another appearance in this thread.

 

[TwoSheds]

Yep fair enough, just been thinking how it would be to move back to London, where wages are lower and tax more than double and the thought is depressing.


Agree with all of that tbh. Though a portion of the Caf has very different views to be on what level of salary punitive taxation should be introduced though, at the risk of the bearded guy from Question Time making another appearance in this thread.

I've been a contractor through a limited company outside IR35 and paid tax as a company. I think my effective tax rate was maybe 30% max on generally 60-75k revenue with feck all in the way of assets and tbh it felt about right to me. Which shows how scandalous the tax laws are because there are employees earning a lot less than that paying a lot more tax! When you've big companies and the ultra wealthy sometimes paying single digit tax rates it's no wonder we have to subsidise the feckers. The whole system is broken and just singling out reasonably well paid salaried employees doesn't really cut it for me. There should be some mechanism for factoring in existing wealth or something, not just a debate about income.

 

[4bars]

And in 2021, Musk paid $11 billion.

Which was a 10% of his wealth increase that year. I wish i would only pay jus 10% a year, let alone one time in my lifetime

 

[Frosty]

 

[Sweet Square]

Also

Spoiler

 

[Jericholyte2]

Also

Spoiler

There’s a fundamental difference between being the Opposition Party and the Governing Party.

The likelihood is that at the end of the year we’ll have Starmer in No10 and Trump in the White House. Rules of international diplomacy dictate you have to be civil and constructive with your biggest ‘allies’.

 

[Mart1974]

There’s a fundamental difference between being the Opposition Party and the Governing Party.

The likelihood is that at the end of the year we’ll have Starmer in No10 and Trump in the White House. Rules of international diplomacy dictate you have to be civil and constructive with your biggest ‘allies’.

The fact you have to explain this shows how far people will go to criticise Labour.

 

[Jippy]

I've been a contractor through a limited company outside IR35 and paid tax as a company. I think my effective tax rate was maybe 30% max on generally 60-75k revenue with feck all in the way of assets and tbh it felt about right to me. Which shows how scandalous the tax laws are because there are employees earning a lot less than that paying a lot more tax! When you've big companies and the ultra wealthy sometimes paying single digit tax rates it's no wonder we have to subsidise the feckers. The whole system is broken and just singling out reasonably well paid salaried employees doesn't really cut it for me. There should be some mechanism for factoring in existing wealth or something, not just a debate about income.

Absolutely. The IR35 changes fecked me when I went freelance in 2020. It was really annoying, particularly when the likes of the DM and BBC had employed some staffers as freelance five days a week for 10 years to avoid paying NI and giving them full employment rights.

The taxing of corporations is never going to happen with a concertated international effort though and can't see that happen. Easier to go for the small man.

 

[Adisa]

Also

Spoiler

Hate Trump and hate that Labour reaching out to him but it’s to be expected. Those feckers are on course to elect that idiot and Labour can’t say they won’t engage.

 

[Mart1974]

Absolutely. The IR35 changes fecked me when I went freelance in 2020. It was really annoying, particularly when the likes of the DM and BBC had employed some staffers as freelance five days a week for 10 years to avoid paying NI and giving them full employment rights.

The taxing of corporations is never going to happen with a concertated international effort though and can't see that happen. Easier to go for the small man.

I was a contractor working for Central government at the time. HMRC didn't have enough established tax experts so they used Deloitte, KPMG, PWC and Accenture to provide support. Those companies helped draft the IR35 legislation which left HMRC short of people with key skills as the contractors there were forced out. Who filled those spots? People from Deloitte, KPMG, PWC and Accenture on much more expensive day rates.

Same across government in other departments. I genuinely don't believe IR35 changes made any difference at all to available funds. The tax take may have gone up, but the cost of delivering government services also went up.

 

[Maticmaker]

Same across government in other departments. I genuinely don't believe IR35 changes made any difference at all to available funds. The tax take may have gone up, but the cost of delivering government services also went up

Spot on, there was a widespread belief in government circles (encouraged by 'interested parties') that too many people were becoming self-employed consultants and thereby dodging NI.
Ruined the working life for many hardworking, (have car and brain, will travel) people who were just about earning a living.