Westminster Politics

The Corinthian said:
This Tory government is filled with career politicians, who have moved to leading quite sizeable departments with little expertise or subject matter knowledge. Jeremy Hunt, as an example, has been secretary of state for FCDO, DHSC, DCMS and now the Chancellor. Now, I'm not saying he isn't capable of leading these departments (well tbh, he isn't) but can you really put people in charge of departments who have no prior knowledge, experience, or insight in there? It's symptomatic of this government that we just reshuffle the deck and keep the same people in power, and it's why it's such a shit show.

Now the fact that we have these career politicians, who have no real idea of the departments they lead then we can quite easily say yes they aren't intelligent or competent. Their type of intelligence is playing the game and staying in power. Johnson, Dorries, Gove, Hunt...there's loads of them.

When speaking about Truss specifically - she is part of this same crew. Great at playing the game (as most Tories tend to be) without having much substance.
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I think you can, with the exception of Chancellor of the Exchequer a department head had the Civil Service to provide briefings filled with information to enable ministers to make decisions. The problem with the current Tory crop is for the most part they're thickos who are either ideologically (donor) driven or simply incapable.
 
That'sHernandez said:
I think you can, with the exception of Chancellor of the Exchequer a department head had the Civil Service to provide briefings filled with information to enable ministers to make decisions. The problem with the current Tory crop is for the most part they're thickos who are either ideologically (donor) driven or simply incapable.
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I was going to say that, the civil service head for those departments would run things not whoever the politicians happen to be at the time. Their job is to get whatever those departments need or to tell the head that they have to cut costs.
they have briefings and even speeches written for them
All that being said, if they had done prior knowledge of course that would help
 
4bars said:
Honest questions for the brittish expecting honest answers

- Do you believe that Truss has below average or above average intelligence
- if it is above why she failed as PM
-if it is below, how she ever got near any position of power let alone MP
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Do you believe that Truss has below average or above average intelligence
- I think she’s passably intelligent. Average. Nothing more or or less.

if it is above why she failed as PM
I answered neither. But think what she is, is a good study and she’s probably quite effective. University was probably easy enough and she was cosseted from then into safe spaces where just ‘doing’ was enough. She looks like a busy little cnut. You can go far in the civil service and politics by being a busy cnut that can write well. She probably has those attributes. Curry favour with seniors who you’re being effective for, get promoted into different departments, and round out a puddle thin experience level of lots, while never quite staying long enough to have to be an ideas person, or get anyone to follow your ideas

That the Tory Party has baked in a meritocracy amongst a pool of people that included plotting dreamers under May… then excluded anyone with any gumption or short term desires under the thin skinned Boris. You kind of got left with this limp bunch of inexperienced and ineffectual idiots that have got far too close to actual power and mistake that as being an endorsement of their capabilities.

There are probably 5-10 Tory MP’s that would make a good cabinet minister, none of them are in it. That Michael Gove is (by almost all accounts), the most effective Minister in the Tory government is just flat out scary.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Do you believe that Truss has below average or above average intelligence
- I think she’s passably intelligent. Average. Nothing more or or less.

if it is above why she failed as PM
I answered neither. But think what she is, is a good study and she’s probably quite effective. University was probably easy enough and she was cosseted from then into safe spaces where just ‘doing’ was enough. She looks like a busy little cnut. You can go far in the civil service and politics by being a busy cnut that can write well. She probably has those attributes. Curry favour with seniors who you’re being effective for, get promoted into different departments, and round out a puddle thin experience level of lots, while never quite staying long enough to have to be an ideas person, or get anyone to follow your ideas

That the Tory Party has baked in a meritocracy amongst a pool of people that included plotting dreamers under May… then excluded anyone with any gumption or short term desires under the thin skinned Boris. You kind of got left with this limp bunch of inexperienced and ineffectual idiots that have got far too close to actual power and mistake that as being an endorsement of their capabilities.

There are probably 5-10 Tory MP’s that would make a good cabinet minister, none of them are in it. That Michael Gove is (by almost all accounts), the most effective Minister in the Tory government is just flat out scary.
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Thought she just scrapped a third at uni? If she is a busy cnut, then the only explanation for a third is thick as a plank.
 


GOOD NEWS!!! INFLATIONS COMING DOWN!!!!

But prices are still going up?

Yes, but the rate at which prices are going up is coming down, its 4% not 5%.
 
RedChip said:
Thought she just scrapped a third at uni? If she is a busy cnut, then the only explanation for a third is thick as a plank.
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I said average tbf.

What makes me laugh most. Is kind of a source of shame. I was popular at school because I was smart and good at sport. That was it. Kinda coasted by.

Some kids… not so lucky. Some it just became acceptable to bully. Because kids are awful.

What staggers me is that our entire country managed to do that to our own prime minister. AND SHE CAME BACK FOR THE REUNION.

So odd.
 
Eyepopper said:


GOOD NEWS!!! INFLATIONS COMING DOWN!!!!

But prices are still going up?

Yes, but the rate at which prices are going up is coming down, its 4% not 5%.
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I read a great comment on the Beeb about this that completely smashed the positive spin that they were trying to put on this news.

Basically it was along the lines of; "if bread is £1 and inflation in year one is 50% then the price goes to £1.50. In the second year when inflation drops to 25% it the price goes up to £1.87. Suddenly everyone starts telling me I should be happy because inflation has come down. But in reality, in the space of two years, the price of an essential item has gone up by 87%."
 
Sweet Square said:
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We live in a country where the wind batters drains off houses four times a year, and the occasional storm that hits us weekly becomes headline news in England if it comes once everyone six months down there. Not to mention our beach front towns become flooded from high waves on any day that ends with a "Y".

How in the feck is it not possible, in this god forsaken shitehole of a country, to take advantage of that unless you've got pals in the North Sea drilling for oil?!
 
Bert_ said:
- Do you believe that Truss has below average or above average intelligence
Hard to quantity intelligence but everything she's done in public life suggests she's either lacks it or simply can't apply it. Maybe she a good artist or something.

- if it is above why she failed as PM
Because she's a truly awful politician. Her only vision was to cos-play Thatcher and assumed thats all there was to it. She took a huge risk doing something every economist said was suicidal, but still did it any way and tanked the economy as a result.

-if it is below, how she ever got near any position of power let alone MP
Britain is not a meritocracy. Who you know is worth far more than skill or experience. She failed in every ministerial job she was given but still kept getting promoted. Failing upwards has been the Tories MO for years.

Plus the Tory leadership election (and thus the next PM) was decided by the 100k or so Tory party members. It was a choice between her and Sunak and she promised a Tory wet dream economic policy (the one that tanked the economy) and Sunak spent the campaign saying that her plan was a bad idea (because it would tank the economy).

Rewarding her failures probably just reinforced her arrogance and delusions of grandeur. To the point were she believes she can't possibly get it wrong and say failures are due to some grand conspiracy to stop her from succeeding.
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TheGame said:
Echoing @Bert_ comments.

- Do you believe that Truss has below average or above average intelligence

I'm not sure about intelligence generally but as for a politician and a minister she is clearly not up to the job and is lacking any self awareness. Her main aim now is to appeal to right wing rhetoric to make further money which shows she knows who she is pandering to.

- if it is above why she failed as PM

She was incompetent in many ministerial roles before hand. She decided to run for leadership, cheered on by delusional supporters and thought she was great because she was applauded at Tory membership hustings events when going for leader. She was met with friendly questions and hardly any scrutiny. This made her feel she would be great in the role. However upon being appointed, it soon became apparent what everyone else knew that she was incompetent and had no clue how to be PM. She was then removed by her own party not anyone else.

-if it is below, how she ever got near any position of power let alone MP

Selection of candidates for election of MPs and then ministerial positions are political decisions. Due to the voting system in the UK, most areas will vote Tory even if there was a pig with a blue rosette. You just have to look at some of the names in parliament at the moment: Anderson, Gullis, Francois, Atkins, Braverman, Swayne, Jankyns, Fabricant, Trott etc I could go on forever. Then these people are selected for minsterial posts if they align themselves with the PM. Truss was kept around but she was useless in all of her positions. There is no IQ test for MPs and alot of them have no idea of the real world. Just look at Sunak in most situations.
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The Corinthian said:
This Tory government is filled with career politicians, who have moved to leading quite sizeable departments with little expertise or subject matter knowledge. Jeremy Hunt, as an example, has been secretary of state for FCDO, DHSC, DCMS and now the Chancellor. Now, I'm not saying he isn't capable of leading these departments (well tbh, he isn't) but can you really put people in charge of departments who have no prior knowledge, experience, or insight in there? It's symptomatic of this government that we just reshuffle the deck and keep the same people in power, and it's why it's such a shit show.

Now the fact that we have these career politicians, who have no real idea of the departments they lead then we can quite easily say yes they aren't intelligent or competent. Their type of intelligence is playing the game and staying in power. Johnson, Dorries, Gove, Hunt...there's loads of them.

When speaking about Truss specifically - she is part of this same crew. Great at playing the game (as most Tories tend to be) without having much substance.
Click to expand...
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Do you believe that Truss has below average or above average intelligence
- I think she’s passably intelligent. Average. Nothing more or or less.

if it is above why she failed as PM
I answered neither. But think what she is, is a good study and she’s probably quite effective. University was probably easy enough and she was cosseted from then into safe spaces where just ‘doing’ was enough. She looks like a busy little cnut. You can go far in the civil service and politics by being a busy cnut that can write well. She probably has those attributes. Curry favour with seniors who you’re being effective for, get promoted into different departments, and round out a puddle thin experience level of lots, while never quite staying long enough to have to be an ideas person, or get anyone to follow your ideas

That the Tory Party has baked in a meritocracy amongst a pool of people that included plotting dreamers under May… then excluded anyone with any gumption or short term desires under the thin skinned Boris. You kind of got left with this limp bunch of inexperienced and ineffectual idiots that have got far too close to actual power and mistake that as being an endorsement of their capabilities.

There are probably 5-10 Tory MP’s that would make a good cabinet minister, none of them are in it. That Michael Gove is (by almost all accounts), the most effective Minister in the Tory government is just flat out scary.
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Thanks for you answers. So basically you answered the same with some small differences.

I get that a career politician can reach certain areas of power in their party. The right contacts, the right moment, but i cant get how she could rose to PM

You can see why bojo rose to power, he had a charisma and appeal to certain prople. Theresa may, you could disagree 100%, but you could see certain work ans stateswomanship behind. Sunak has 0 charisma, but you can see that has dome intelligence.

The little i have seen of Truss, i cant see anything. Not enough intelligence, work, stateswomanship or charisma for anyone in ger party to think it could work
 
4bars said:
Thanks for you answers. So basically you answered the same with some small differences.

I get that a career politician can reach certain areas of power in their party. The right contacts, the right moment, but i cant get how she could rose to PM

You can see why bojo rose to power, he had a charisma and appeal to certain prople. Theresa may, you could disagree 100%, but you could see certain work ans stateswomanship behind. Sunak has 0 charisma, but you can see that has dome intelligence.

The little i have seen of Truss, i cant see anything. Not enough intelligence, work, stateswomanship or charisma for anyone in ger party to think it could work
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Read the newspaper headline roundup pages on the BBC website if you can. Note the extremist lunacy permanently plastered on the front pages of the Mail, Express and Sun (frequently also the Telegraph) almost every day. Note the similarity to the childish nonsense coming out of Truss' mouth. The Tory members almost all read that shite in one form or another.
 
Pexbo said:
Harsh on @TheGame
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TwoSheds said:
Read the newspaper headline roundup pages on the BBC website if you can. Note the extremist lunacy permanently plastered on the front pages of the Mail, Express and Sun (frequently also the Telegraph) almost every day. Note the similarity to the childish nonsense coming out of Truss' mouth. The Tory members almost all read that shite in one form or another.
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But shouldnt she have some kind of delivery ability? Like johnson?

I know that you know her and your society much more than me, bug i just dont get it. My questioning was brought up because i dont see any quality that could put her in the positon on being PM. Never seen anything like it

I just would like one quality that she used to reach the top. Sure career politicians and contacts can get you cabinet positions. But PM...anyway i guess is what you said? Maybe they relate?
 
TheGame said:
:lol:
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Hard to know what to even make of that story. Either he scammed an old lady and his party, or he is incredibly involved in some sort of wild gangster shit and has absolutely no control over his finances despite earning a handsome MP salary.
 
4bars said:
But shouldnt she have some kind of delivery ability? Like johnson?

I know that you know her and your society much more than me, bug i just dont get it. My questioning was brought up because i dont see any quality that could put her in the positon on being PM. Never seen anything like it

I just would like one quality that she used to reach the top. Sure career politicians and contacts can get you cabinet positions. But PM...anyway i guess is what you said? Maybe they relate?
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She parrots whatever lunatic shit the donors, press and members want to hear, so much so that she probably believes it herself. That's it. She has no talent or decency. Years ago she'd have got nowhere because that wouldn't have been enough to put you anywhere near any meaningful job, but there is no talent left in the conservative party. Extremist rhetoric was enough.
 
Completely mad story on Menzies. How on earth did he think he could get away with it? When did the Whips know and why did they only act when the story broke?

 
Mr Pigeon said:
I read a great comment on the Beeb about this that completely smashed the positive spin that they were trying to put on this news.

Basically it was along the lines of; "if bread is £1 and inflation in year one is 50% then the price goes to £1.50. In the second year when inflation drops to 25% it the price goes up to £1.87. Suddenly everyone starts telling me I should be happy because inflation has come down. But in reality, in the space of two years, the price of an essential item has gone up by 87%."
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Yep, just tells you how stupid they think people are.
 
Sweet Square said:
Everyone hates everyone!

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It’s almost like relentlessly mirroring the opinions, positions and policies of the party that has been in power for over a decade and people are sick to their stomach of and rejecting in unprecedented fashion is a bad idea? Almost.
 
DanH said:
Almost

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People are rejecting the Tories and holding their nose and voting for Starmer. It’s a protest vote and nothing else. It will be the most hollow of victories and as soon as Labour are in power people will be clamouring to get them out.

The two polls show Starmer is winning by default and is hugely unpopular, that’s not a sustainable position to govern from.
 
decorativeed said:
But don't forget the real scandal here; Angela Rayner might owe £1500 in unpaid taxes.
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Wait, is it that low? I've only glanced at the various articles about this and none of them said how much she owed. They made it look like it was at least five figures.
 
Pexbo said:
People are rejecting the Tories and holding their nose and voting for Starmer. It’s a protest vote and nothing else. It will be the most hollow of victories and as soon as Labour are in power people will be clamouring to get them out.

The two polls show Starmer is winning by default and is hugely unpopular, that’s not a sustainable position to govern from.
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Is your position on an opposition leader being unpopular not being sustainable consistent?
 
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