Turns out it wasn’t just about freeing up beds but introducing private healthcare into the NHS
Also
Also
Last edited:
Westminster Politics 2024-2029
- Thread starter Pexbo
- Start date
But hahaha the Tories are out great stuff lads we've done it. Sensible back in politics.
Yup, always felt lucky that we have Scottish Water. A couple of winters back, everyone on my street lost their water after a series of pipes burst down the road from us. We were all furious, having a moan all day about it. We still talk about it now.
We were without water for about eight hours in total. A crew turned up at 1am, ripped the roads up, and it was fixed by 4.
The stuff about the NHS all seems very reasonable to me. Did you listen to what he said? Or just read the tweet?
https://labourlist.org/2024/07/labo...althcare-treasury-economic-growth-tony-blair/
To me he seems to be saying that, getting people healthy means more people getting into work and thus driving economic growth so the NHS should not be seen or positioned as a drain on public resources. He then references that he wants the equitable principles of it's founding to continue before later going on to say that he considers free at the point of use being one of those equitable principles before acknowledging that the reality is that we do have a two tiered system now as NHS waiting lists/issues are meaning those who can afford it are skipping the queue by paying for private treatment while those who need to wait for NHS treatment are being left behind.
Others will have their own takes.
Pogue that’s because your right wing.
You misread the quote, assuming your butthurt is about the economic growth part
Worth saying Satan himself was speaking at the same event
Lindsay Hoyle being re-elected.
Give me strength
No that’s because I’ve worked in public health services which charged a nominal fee for GP or A&E visits (primarily to minimise the number of punters wasting everyone’s time with trivial nonsense) while also ensuring nobody ever had to pay for the really expensive stuff like inpatients stays or surgery. I’ve also worked in the NHS. The idea that “free at point of use” is some sort of sacred cow, which must never ever change, is a nonsense.
Reeves : we want people off of benefits and in work, there are too many people on long term sick due to the NHS backlogs and poor mental health services. This will improve productivity in the economy and lead to growth
Streeting: the NHS is important for economic growth.
Streeting: the NHS is important for economic growth.
That fella you follow on Twitter has an uncanny knack for misrepresenting what people are saying in video clips, all for likes and follows. Helps pass the time, I guess.
Yep.
Blanket fee or means tested?
Means tested.
The most equitable way to run a health service is that those who can pay should pay a nominal fee (so long as the costs are capped and we avoid the sort of insane expense you see in the US) while those who can't, don't. I've always thought it mad the way some people are absolutely adamant that nobody should ever pay to access the NHS. It just doesn't make sense.
Another really obvious thing we do in Ireland (which I don't think you do in the UK?) is to charge €100 to anyone who turns up to A&E without a GP referral. Free if referred by a GP. Again, means tested, so those who can't afford these fees don't have to pay them.
Last edited:
Is Diane Abbott not very well?
I hope she's ok.
If it’s means tested is national insurance not exactly that? Or are we only punishing sick people now?
I think she's emotional.
Farage using a ceremonial occasion to insult John Bercow and make points about Brexit. This is going to be a fun 5 years.
I hope so. That was my first thought/wish.
So if you break your arm you have get a GP referral first? Or can you get the money back later if you're not time wasting?
You need the GP referral first, or you have to pay. And, having worked in A&Es, I can assure you that a hell of a lot of people think they’ve broken a bone when they haven’t.
Obviously, if you’re badly hurt enough that an ambulance brings you in then there’s no charge.
I’m afraid I don’t know what you’re on about here. Especially the bit about “punishing sick people”? I was talking about whether or not the NHS should be always be free at point of use, for everyone. I don’t think it needs to be. Or at the very least, alternative options should be on the table in discussions about how to run the best possible public health service.
You pay when your arm is healed enough to hold up your debit card to the equitable contactless payment machine.
I am replying to you, but this is a general point, rather than one you need to reply to.
Two immediate pitfalls come to mind. First, if you institute a system of means testing for health, for the whole country (which includes a system that ensures people who cannot pay do not), then you need to ensure that the cost of the bureaucracy does not swallow up the money raised in fees or payments. Especially as you need to factor in staffing costs, inflationary pay increases, updates in technology that cost money, and so on. Blair tried a national NHS IT system which costed billions and did not work, so how does a government ensure data collection and retention securely?
Secondly, you need to engage in a lot of messaging to ensure people who need help are not dissauded from doing so (see UK dentistry as an example), and in that case, how much would publicising the new system cost against the revenues raised?
Surely though that means people that are not sure and are worried about money will sit at home and hope it gets better, as people do with teeth problems here. A couple of weeks ago my daughter seriously hurt her ankle, I tool her to A and E after a couple of hours, it wasn't broken but she was on crutches and still is as she had torn ligaments, very glad I didn't have to pay, if I had I would probably have waited longer as I thought she had just turned it or bruised it initially, but the over riding message from the team in our local A and E was "better safe than sorry" charging turns that on its head.
We already pay for the NHS via National Insurance and Taxes which are both progressive and therefore means tested.
So by abandoning that principle and considering the burden a public/national responsibility, you’re suggesting that the burden is on you to pay if you become sick?
Nobody is abandoning that principle. And these fees don't fund the health service. They're nominal fees which the vast majority of people only pay very rarely and are in no way a financial burden. Put it another way, how many A&E visits have you made in the last, say, five years? How badly would you be out of pocket if you'd bypassed your GP each time and paid the full £100 per visit?
Why didn't you see a GP?
Because, it can take 2 weeks to get a GP appointment here and it was 7pm on wednesday night and she was in lkots of pain and couldn't walk. It is impossibnle to get a GP appointment on the day here in England
Getting an appointment would be hell in England/Wales. Maybe your point would carry to calling 111 though.
Ok well that's not ideal. Don't you have out of hours GP services?
Presumably because his daughter seriously hurt her ankle.
"Sorry darling - the most important person in my life - but you'll have to wait until tomorrow morning at 11:45 before we get that checked. If you could stop crying that would be great, ta."
Because in most places they're Monday-Friday and if you're not in their phone queue at 8am they tell you to phone back tomorrow. That or they'll tell you to call 111 or go to A&E.
It might make sense to give a 111 referral equivalent weight to a GP referral is you wanted to start charging for emergency visits? We don't have a 111 service in Ireland but there's usually a way to see a GP in an emergency.
Aaaaaaaanyway, I'm not insisting that the NHS should immediately start charging everyone to see their GP or ED. I'm just pointing out that a public health service can charge fees for certain services, while still remaining a public health service.