Wealth & Income Inequality

Revan said:
What about people who own two cars? Or two bicycles for that matter? Or, I guess you own two pair of shoes. Why you don't give one of them to some homeless person in your city (you're American right?) who doesn't have one?

It is weird why I am arguing with you, considering that on the grand scheme of things I am much more in your side of the argument rather than Cal's, but at the same time I find your arguments 'extremely extreme', to the point of being useless.
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these things are at a completely different scale, you can own two really shit cars and still be poor, but if you've got a backup buggati incase the first fails you're hoarding too much resources, and some of these people look down on buggati owners
 
Eboue said:
Bill Gates can literally give away billions of dollars and not change his quality of life in any way. We know because hes done it.

He chooses to live in a 66,000 square foot home while people live on the street. He chooses to own 4 houses.
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He could have chosen not to give any money away and buy himself 4 million houses. He made that money legally and the fact he's chosen to give most of it away.
 
Revan said:
What about people who own two cars? Or two bicycles for that matter? Or, I guess you own at least two pair of shoes. Why you don't give one of them to some homeless person in your city (you're American right?) who doesn't have one?

It is weird why I am arguing with you, considering that on the grand scheme of things I am much more in your side of the argument rather than Cal's, but at the same time I find your arguments 'extremely extreme', to the point of being useless.
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It's a matter of having a decent quality of life. Having an extra pair of shoes isnt causing massiven inequality. Having a second bicycle isnt contributing to people living on the street.

Hoarding billions of dollars that do not change his life in any way is different.
 
Cal? said:
He could have chosen not to give any money away and buy himself 4 million houses. He made that money legally and the fact he's chosen to give most of it away.
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In this dumb hypothetical you would still be licking his boot and saying that it's his right to own 4 million houses and its totally legal for thousands to be homeless.
 
Raoul said:
Buffett still apparently lives in the same house he paid 31k for in 1958 (its worth 650k today).
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I'm not even sure what @Eboue expects of the billionaires.

Not make billions despite being extremely good at what they do? Make billions and live frugally whilst giving handouts to people who refuse to work?
 
Eboue said:
In this dumb hypothetical you would still be licking his boot and saying that it's his right to own 4 million houses and its totally legal for thousands to be homeless.
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The very first post about billionaires I made it quite clear that SOME billionaires do not deserve all that hate. I can certainly think of plenty who do.
 
Silva said:
these things are at a completely different scale, you can own two really shit cars and still be poor, but if you've got a backup buggati incase the first fails you're hoarding too much resources, and some of these people look down on buggati owners
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I don't disagree with that. But I think that the notion of giving your entire wealth to the people more in needed (heck, hasn't Gates and Buffet pledged 90% of their entire wealth to charitable causes) a bit extreme. I mean, if you really believe that, then you should really live like Jesus Christ and not own anything that isn't totally needed.

Gates has given more both in taxes and charity than any other person in the world. He didn't kill people to get rich, he didn't actually 'steal' his workers for doing so. In reality, those other workers became rich too while being in the same ship. Heck, even people low in hierarchy like junior developers became relatively rich by being in the same ship.

Yes, he took advantage of a system. Yes, I agree that capitalism is a pretty bad system (though likely better than other systems human race has experienced), but individuals aren't really responsible for that. At least, not all individuals.

And yes, all things considered, I think that Gates has done much more good than bad things.
 
Revan said:
don't disagree with that. But I think that the notion of giving your entire wealth to the people more in needed (heck, hasn't Gates and Buffet pledged 90% of their entire wealth to charitable causes) a bit extreme. I mean, if you really believe that, then you should really live like Jesus Christ and not own anything that isn't totally needed.
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Bill Gates should have a comfortable home, a nice car, enough money to take vacations and a rainy day fund. He shouldn't have a billion dollars.
 
Eboue said:
Bingo. I want a system in which no one has a billion dollars.
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There was an experiment of it which lasted for around 70 years in a large part of the world last century. It didn't end well.

Just saying that the grass isn't always greener in the other side. And well, it is quite possible (in fact, I think extremely likely) that the economy flourishes more when people can actually own a large amount of money/capital, then when they cannot.
Eboue said:
It's a matter of having a decent quality of life. Having an extra pair of shoes isnt causing massiven inequality. Having a second bicycle isnt contributing to people living on the street.

Hoarding billions of dollars that do not change his life in any way is different.
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Not having a pair of extra shoes, won't decrease your quality of life though. Especially if you are hoarding another 3 pairs. However, they might make a good difference for a homeless person during the winter.

Obviously, it is all about the scale, I agree there. But you can make the argument for everything. People - even normal people like me and you - own a lot of things which they don't really need, and if instead they gave that money to charity, they'll make differences for some other people without drastically lowering the quality of their lives.
 
Eboue said:
I hate them for stealing from workers and hoarding resources while others suffer.
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Who are these Microsoft or Google employees who have been stolen from? Most employees of those companies have done very well.
 
Cal? said:
Who are these Microsoft or Google employees who have been stolen from? Most employees of those companies have done very well.
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Many of of these employees also have stock options, own stock, or have bonuses tied to the value of the company's stock price.
 
Raoul said:
Many of of these employees also have stock options, own stock, or have bonuses tied to the value of the company's stock price.
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I am genuinely baffled by who @Eboue thinks the billions have been stolen from? :confused:
 
Silva said:
Do you really think those practices started after he left?
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Honestly, I don't know. I know though that Gates has been advocating on tax increase for the super-rich, despite that he has given around 30b dollars in taxes (I believe), which makes him by far the biggest taxpayer in the history of US.
 
Silva said:
Do you really think those practices started after he left?
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Exactly. This is what capitalism does. It incentivizes grinding people down and taking advantage of everyone and everything in service of ever more profit. If we just change the incentives with the Guilotine Of Damacles for anyone who obtains a billion dollars then I'd wager that behaviour would change in response.
 
Eboue said:
Exactly. This is what capitalism does. It incentivizes grinding people down and taking advantage of everyone and everything in service of ever more profit. If we just change the incentives with the Guilotine Of Damacles for anyone who obtains a billion dollars then I'd wager that behaviour would change in response.
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Indeed, it will slow down human innovation massively. Why try to create a vaccine or cure against cancer, you might get too rich and get executed. Let's just stick to chemotherapy and make a decent living. :rolleyes:
 
Revan said:
Honestly, I don't know. I know though that Gates has been advocating on tax increase for the super-rich, despite that he has given around 30b dollars in taxes (I believe), which makes him by far the biggest taxpayer in the history of US.
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He bought a good product when he was young so he could own and sell it on, then again in the 80s and beat apple to market with it. And he used his newly gained resources to become the richest man in the world at the expense of both the people building his machines in sweatshops and the costumers who were forced to stay his, and only his, brand.
 
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