Wealth & Income Inequality

maniak said:
But they worked so hard for that money.
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Yes of course they did. And while the Inland Revenue, IRS or whatever government institution they have in their respective countries will chase us lesser mortals to the ends of the earth for a few quid, they get to exploit all kinds of loopholes to avoid paying millions.
 
VeevaVee said:
I'm of the opinion there shouldn't be billionaires. The problem is, how can a massive company that has the ability to earn its owner billions structure its company different so that its employees benefit far more than employees of companies that don't make that kind of money? I can't see how it could work. There would surely be chaos, and companies that don't make much money would be left with poor employees?
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California is debating ideas like corporate tax rate being set based on the income discrepancy of the CEO to lowest wage worker. As long as they include things like bonuses and stock options in that, its a plan that could work really well.

Ultimately the culture of glorifying the wealthy has to change though. Hip hop is a severe problem with its glorification of making money and getting rich in any way possible.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
California is debating ideas like corporate tax rate being set based on the income discrepancy of the CEO to lowest wage worker. As long as they include things like bonuses and stock options in that, its a plan that could work really well.
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That's very interesting actually. I couldn't see it happening here, not under the Tories.
 
Revan said:
The company has just a few hundred employees though, easier there for everyone to be largely paid, than in companies with thousands of employees. Additionally, the gap there is very big too, with the owner being worth 20B+. Additionally, the employees there are some of the smartest people on Earth. Additionally, the entire business of Medallion trust (the flagship of Renaissance Technologies) is based on high-frequency trading, which in itself is a parasitic zero-sum game that has a negative effect on the economy, and essentially is a way to send the money from the poor to the rich. Additionally, they have avoided taxes in the past. Additionally, they don't accept outside money, with the employers essentially managing their own money. Additionally, their 2 public funds barely beat the market, which has lead speculations that they are cheating (essentially, the big wins get send to Medallion, while the other transfers to the other two funds, again, this is total speculation).

I don't think that you could have made a worse example though.

Fun fact: Their No.2 (until recently) is Mercer, a shitcnut of the highest order who has been financing Bannon and other alt-right people. Mercer family essentially hates McConnell for being too left-wing, and is widely considered to be one of the top 3 most powerful Republican influencers (together with Koch and Adelson).
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Well, that is why I said exceptions aside ;)
 
Kinsella said:
Indeed, and there's nothing to stop like-minded people from establishing such co-operatives.
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I put that example because I am on the opinion that the 9:1, 5:1 or whichever should be mandatory because it works despite the once that says it wold not. Inequality should be tackled with regulation and not allowing the hoarding of capital to the levels that we are seeing in capitalism
 
The US needs to rip up its tax code and start again. Would obviously never happen, but I'm a well-educated financial analyst for a living and when I lived there it was the most terrifying thing I'd have to do each year. There is no rhyme or reason to it, it's simply the output of years and years of selfish lobbyists changing things.

The US could raise soooo much money if it taxed its wealthy properly, like staggering amounts, and could actually start fixing itself with that income.
 
Beachryan said:
The US needs to rip up its tax code and start again. Would obviously never happen, but I'm a well-educated financial analyst for a living and when I lived there it was the most terrifying thing I'd have to do each year. There is no rhyme or reason to it, it's simply the output of years and years of selfish lobbyists changing things.

The US could raise soooo much money if it taxed its wealthy properly, like staggering amounts, and could actually start fixing itself with that income.
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But that would be literal communism!
 
Beachryan said:
The US needs to rip up its tax code and start again. Would obviously never happen, but I'm a well-educated financial analyst for a living and when I lived there it was the most terrifying thing I'd have to do each year. There is no rhyme or reason to it, it's simply the output of years and years of selfish lobbyists changing things.

The US could raise soooo much money if it taxed its wealthy properly, like staggering amounts, and could actually start fixing itself with that income.
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100% …although as you say, it will never happen. I pay a firm to do my taxes every year to avoid inadvertently checking the wrong box and getting into trouble with the IRS.
 
Love that illustration but nothing will be done when normal people would rather discuss how they do their laundry instead or, you know, fight over whichever videogame console they think is best. The last one especially makes me sick.
 
Raoul said:
100% …although as you say, it will never happen. I pay a firm to do my taxes every year to avoid inadvertently checking the wrong box and getting into trouble with the IRS.
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Is it really that bad? Are you talking about submitting as an individual with a reasonably standard tax basis, or as a company, or something? I always found the idea of Americans paying professionals to do their taxes interesting, and wondered if it was one of those misconceptions I picked up from movies or TV.
 
nimic said:
Is it really that bad? Are you talking about submitting as an individual with a reasonably standard tax basis, or as a company, or something? I always found the idea of Americans paying professionals to do their taxes interesting, and wondered if it was one of those misconceptions I picked up from movies or TV.
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Not just Americans. I pay PAYE tax but something triggered the revenue about me a few years ago and they make me do a full tax return every year. It’s a ball ache to do and paying someone else to do it for me saves me a load of hassle and gives reassurance I’m not forgetting something important.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Not just Americans. I pay PAYE tax but something triggered the revenue about me a few years ago and they make me do a full tax return every year. It’s a ball ache to do and paying someone else to do it for me saves me a load of hassle and gives reassurance I’m not forgetting something important.
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It seems needlessly complicated, but I guess that's how most people feel. Admittedly my tax basis isn't very complicated, but filling out my taxes usually just involves clicking "send" on a digital document on a government website. Technically I don't even have to do that, it would be sent by default. The taxes come filled in already, and my job is mostly going through it and finding any mistakes (haven't found any yet, but I don't have a lot of special rules applying to me).
 
nimic said:
It seems needlessly complicated, but I guess that's how most people feel. Admittedly my tax basis isn't very complicated, but filling out my taxes usually just involves clicking "send" on a digital document on a government website. Technically I don't even have to do that, it would be sent by default. The taxes come filled in already, and my job is mostly going through it and finding any mistakes.
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My tax isn’t massively complicated either. But I do a joint return with my wife, have a family and some investments. It all adds up to a bunch of complications. I did do it myself for a few years but found it less hassle to get someone else to do it. Plus their fee is tax deductible!
 
Pogue Mahone said:
My tax isn’t massively complicated either. But I do a joint return with my wife, have a family and some investments. It all adds up to a bunch of complications. I did do it myself for a few years but found it less hassle to get someone else to do it. Plus their fee is tax deductible!
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I'd imagine the majority of people who are required to complete a tax form pay someone else to do it.
 
Beachryan said:
The US needs to rip up its tax code and start again. Would obviously never happen, but I'm a well-educated financial analyst for a living and when I lived there it was the most terrifying thing I'd have to do each year. There is no rhyme or reason to it, it's simply the output of years and years of selfish lobbyists changing things.

The US could raise soooo much money if it taxed its wealthy properly, like staggering amounts, and could actually start fixing itself with that income.
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:lol:
 
nimic said:
It seems needlessly complicated, but I guess that's how most people feel. Admittedly my tax basis isn't very complicated, but filling out my taxes usually just involves clicking "send" on a digital document on a government website. Technically I don't even have to do that, it would be sent by default. The taxes come filled in already, and my job is mostly going through it and finding any mistakes (haven't found any yet, but I don't have a lot of special rules applying to me).
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Same in Denmark. Most years I just fill in how much I expect to earn for that year and that's it. Then I might look again when they find out whether I owe them money or they owe me. My deductibles from charities are even in there without me having to do anything.
 
Maagge said:
Same in Denmark. Most years I just fill in how much I expect to earn for that year and that's it. Then I might look again when they find out whether I owe them money or they owe me. My deductibles from charities are even in there without me having to do anything.
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Yep, same here (subtle brag only ruined by me pointing out that it's a subtle brag). I suspect we've got very similar systems. It really is nice so many things are just connected, and systems exists to make things easier rather than harder. Another, unrelated example: I have to get tested for covid since one of my pupils tested positive. I used the same system to log in to my municipality's test scheduling site as I will when I log in to the national health service website to find out the results (after getting an automatic SMS telling me my results are available). I also use the same system to log in to my digital post box (where I get most of my mail these days, official and otherwise), my bank, to fill in my taxes, to check my student loans, to book a doctor's appointment, to re-fill a prescription, and so on.

Different sites, the same secure, national system (which I don't have to pay for, obviously).

This post is not paid for by the Norwegian government, although maybe I should bill them anyway.
 
nimic said:
Yep, same here (subtle brag only ruined by me pointing out that it's a subtle brag). I suspect we've got very similar systems. It really is nice so many things are just connected, and systems exists to make things easier rather than harder. Another, unrelated example: I have to get tested for covid since one of my pupils tested positive. I used the same system to log in to my municipality's test scheduling site as I will when I log in to the national health service website to find out the results (after getting an automatic SMS telling me my results are available). I also use the same system to log in to my digital post box (where I get most of my mail these days, official and otherwise), my bank, to fill in my taxes, to check my student loans and so on.

Different sites, the same secure, national system (which I don't have to pay for, obviously).
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Yeah that's remarkably similar to our systems. When it was first introduced I was a bit annoyed with the way two-factor authentication was implemented but it's honestly great now and generally very simple to use (and of course stuff like that needs to be very secure).
 
nimic said:
It seems needlessly complicated, but I guess that's how most people feel. Admittedly my tax basis isn't very complicated, but filling out my taxes usually just involves clicking "send" on a digital document on a government website. Technically I don't even have to do that, it would be sent by default. The taxes come filled in already, and my job is mostly going through it and finding any mistakes (haven't found any yet, but I don't have a lot of special rules applying to me).
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It is, but at least part of that is basically explained by posts in this thread. There is a whole industry that profits from doing taxes for other people. And in America, where people profit, you can find lobbyists whose self-interest is based on maintaining an inefficient system.
 
nimic said:
It seems needlessly complicated, but I guess that's how most people feel. Admittedly my tax basis isn't very complicated, but filling out my taxes usually just involves clicking "send" on a digital document on a government website. Technically I don't even have to do that, it would be sent by default. The taxes come filled in already, and my job is mostly going through it and finding any mistakes (haven't found any yet, but I don't have a lot of special rules applying to me).
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Same here but they are right bastards once you have some tax credits or things that are considered a bit more advanced to fill in. I've heard from loads of people who had to contact them because they forgot to fill in the tax credit for a loan on your first house, but when you bring it up they know the exact amount you're entitled to, stuff like that. I always wonder how many extra revenue they create by just sending incomplete tax returns to your average Joe who just clicks "confirm".
 
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