We have too many players who aren't cut out for the highest level

Dans

Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016
Joined
Jun 4, 2001
Messages
27,073
Location
Oberbayern
And van Gaal is responsible for some of them being there. But we do have a post Ferguson hangover in so much as he didn't leave the squad in great shape by any means and Moyes managed to simply make it worse with the signing of Fellaini - a player Lucky seems to rate given the number of games he's got this season.

But in all honesty, we have players who it has become patently obvious are not cut out for the top level, in some cases, yet, in others, ever.

So who are they?

In my opinion, they are:

Fellaini (never, ever will be good enough - loan him to AC now)
Memphis Depay (yet, but in my opinion unlikely ever to be)
Blind (never will be - too slow, much too slow)
Young (admire his effort, but before this season during which he's looked better than an awful bunch, most did wonder what he was doing in our team)
McNair (yet)
Darmian (yet)
Valencia (hasn't been for a while)
Rojo (hasn't convinced at all)
Jones (won't ever get there - good as an away supporter though)
Januzaj (a real disappointment after one decent season under would you believe it, David fecking Moyes)
Lingard (I really can't see it with this guy)

Yet Lucky plays so many of these players regularly. Obviously he can't replace them all, but he's had 3 windows now and cleared out players who perhaps he shouldn't have (Nani, Hernandez) and bought in unconvincing players. I kind of admire the giving Lindgard a go, but how long can that go on? What about Pereria? Give him a go too, please.

Our squad isn't in good shape, and add a way under performing (read: past it) Rooney, ditto Carrick, and we really aren't going anywhere positive.

A massive overhaul is needed to recover from Moyes and Lucky's feck ups. Who's the man to do it? How long will it take? Things are pretty bleak right now and will remain so for some time if you ask me.
 
I will bring this up again because I see sentiment on the forum that agrees with some of what I said a few weeks ago.

I almost want to add Schneiderlin to the list now because he never really seems to take hold of a game - he's a bit anonymous really.
 
Dans said:
I will bring this up again because I see sentiment on the forum that agrees with some of what I said a few weeks ago.

I almost want to add Schneiderlin to the list now because he never really seems to take hold of a game - he's a bit anonymous really.
Click to expand...
May as well add Carrick and Schweinsteiger as well by the time next season comes, both of whom are on their last legs due to a combination of age, "miles on the clock" and injuries
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
May as well add Carrick and Schweinsteiger as well by the time next season comes, both of whom are on their last legs due to a combination of age, "miles on the clock" and injuries
Click to expand...
According to M.E.N. today he had to convince United to buy Bastian as they were concerned about his age.
 
Once again this common misconception that you need 22 superstars to win the league and champions league, it's really not true! While I agree with the sentiment that players like lingard probably aren't good enough to start for us there absolutely no reason why he can't be a solid squad player for us. Form is another massive thing that Utd fans have forgotten about and right now every player has a potential to show 2-3 levels above where they are in this current system. Spurs and Leicester are the exact evidence for this, they have good players but not great players... Put them in a system where they all understand their jobs and have the proper motivation to play and they flourish.

LVG has sucked the life out of a lot of our players, e.g, Herrera, Mata, Rooney not to mention Di Maria, so for that reason I just don't see how we can fully judge the players yet. Memphis is another example of a player that I think would excel in a quick counter attacking system like at PSV, but with his confidence at an all time low people have fully written him off already which seems premature to me.

The squad overhaul is not complete but we don't need many new players. New CB to partner Smalling, a young CM to give us some legs and greater passing range and a Striker/wide forward that is top class and knows how to find the net. I'm willing to bet that of we put in a better manager I.e. Mourinho and then purchase 3 top class players in those positions we will win the league especially once our young players, shaw, Memphis martial all develop further.
 
TrustInJanuzai said:
...put in a better manager I.e. Mourinho and then purchase 3 top class players in those positions we will win the league especially once our young players, shaw, Memphis martial all develop further.
Click to expand...

This I agree with.
 
I think the squad needs time under a different manager before deciding who's rubbish. Just look at Chelsea, 3 months ago you wouldn't have kept anybody apart from Willian, now they've all kicked us a year again.
 
I am sorry, we have lost points to Norwich, Newcastle, Bournemouth, Sunderland, 'Boro etc.,,

If we had managed to get atleast 7-10 points out of these games, we would be well within the race. So, I will not accept the argument that our squad isn't good enough to win the league, cause these games should have been won with our squad even considering injuries.
 
I don't agree we haven't got the players. Our record against the top 6 shows the potential. They just need better guidance and motivation. LVG needs to pack his bags and admit defeat.
 
You're wrong.

di Maria went from WC to garbage in one season.
RvP had a decent season in 13/14 went to garbage next season.
Rooney went from good to absolute donkey on one season.
Mata has been up and down over 2 years.
Herrera ... need not say more.
Darmian, Italy's best right back, doesn't resemble a football player.
Schneiderlin, brilliant for Southampton, donkey poo for us.
Memphis. Say all you want, myself included, he went from 30 goals to completely useless.

I, whole heartedly, blame van Gaal, and no one else. He's sucked the life out of nearly everyone of our players.
 
Think we are lacking to much in certain areas. Full back: Shaw was looking sensational then he's out and on the right Valencia is out and Darmain has been poor. Wingers we have been abysmal Depay Mata Lingard way off. Martial is the only glimmer of light out wide. Mata is a different player at number 10 but poor out wide. So virtually we have no great attacking options out wide apart from a make shift in Martial. No wonder we a struggling as individually most our central midfield and defenders would get a game at the other top 4 clubs and Rooney is getting next to no service but that's another argument.
 
If we don't sell well, there is no point buying. We need to get rid of players that are past their sell buy date and have little or no chance of improving.

Fellaini - simply has to go. Since I've known him for almost 10 years I can't say he has improved in anything other than hair hair style.
Rooney - Quite possibly the biggest problem going forward. When your time is up, it's up. Leave the past in the archive room. We need to move forward.
Carrick - Just a simple case of the legs are gone.
Valencia - Hardworking player but that has blinded most fans to think he is very talented. Only one good season in his time here, not good enough. Get's worse with each injury. Move on.
Young - Manages to huff and puff his way into each season. Into his thirties, we need freshening up.
Valdes - Just because.

It's no coincidence that most of these are players that LvG heavily rely on. They are supposed to be leading by example but the truth is that they are not doing much better than the players they are displacing. I'd rather we went into the season without these players being involved so much and the younger players getting the game time and experience. Worst case scenario, a very young United side with potential that has just finished 7th in the league. Not too different from this one now
 
Player ability doesn't really matter, how many Leicester players would walk into our starting eleven? The point is they work as a unit, work their arses off every game and fight for everything.

What we need is work ethic and a clear direction with a Manager who will manage the squad properly.
 
We've never been a team of galactico's. We had players like John O'Shea, Wes Brown, Phil Neville, Darren Fletcher and so on. No better than the players you listed in terms of ability but Fergie knew how to get the most out of them and realised it was important to have these kinds of players in your squad. They won titles and champions leagues. The issue here is that Fergie knew how to get the very top level out of every player, where as LVG destroys players' confidence and stops them from playing.
 
I would say it is a poor selection of similar players . Hardly any pace and athleticism and little passion and spirit .

Add to that archaic tactics with zero flexibility and zero room for expression .

It is sad that Palace and West Ham have more dynamic wingers than we have .
 
RedSky said:
Player ability doesn't really matter, how many Leicester players would walk into our starting eleven? The point is they work as a unit, work their arses off every game and fight for everything.

What we need is work ethic and a clear direction with a Manager who will manage the squad properly.
Click to expand...
Well I wouldn't go that far...
 
I think most players in our squad are fine. I think the problem is our back up players don't add much difference to what we have got. We should have kept Rafael and Welbeck IMO. They're the two players who left who would be massive for us right now.
 
Siorac said:
Well I wouldn't go that far...
Click to expand...

Well you know what I mean. People constantly bang on about players "not being good enough", but the fact is that players can make up for ability with hard work and spirit. Gary Neville wasn't the most technically gifted fullback you'll ever see but he made up for it with spirit, leadership and work ethic.

The OP states we don't have too many players not cut for the highest level, that is clearly garbage. They just need a manager who will push them in the right direction.
 
If it's garbage, give me at least your assessment of the players I mentioned.
 
You missed Mata in your list, OP.
 
We do indeed have players that aren't good enough and we got rid of some players that we should have possibly hung onto for another season or so, anyway. However, I think LvG is clearly making players look far worse than they are with the system that he plays and the 'philosophy' that he instils into the players. Are we man-for-man a better team than Sunderland? We are worlds apart but on Saturday that was hard to distinguish and that's sadly mostly down to LvG who appears as safe as he ever has in his job.

Just an FYI, for anyone in this thread saying that 'we don't need a team of superstars' - I would suggest you read the OP again as he never suggested that we do. God, that argument grinds my gears as no poster on here with any semblance of cop on makes that argument but people love running into threads saying "oh noes we don't need the superstars".
 
Dans said:
If it's garbage, give me at least your assessment of the players I mentioned.
Click to expand...

Fellaini - Keep, different player to most of our midfielders useful option (despite me not liking him)
Memphis Depay - Keep, you don't bin a young player only 1 season in.
Blind - Useful but imo a squad player
Young - One of the few players who will run his ass off for the team. Keep.
McNair - Youth player needs a loan imo
Darmian - Keep see Memphis
Valencia - One of the few i'd sell, should never have been converted into a RB.
Rojo - Keep, has shown the right spirit useful backup
Jones - Tricky one, reminds me of Anderson in that injuries will always get in the way of his progress. I'd keep but ensure he's not rushed back, one last season.
Januzaj - Keep, give a run out in the first team and see where his development is at. Then evaluate.
Lingard - Useful squad player but should not be a starter for us atm. Doesn't contribute enough in general play but does have goals in him.
 
We need a dictator/radical type of new manager. One who won't waste time persevering with doomed projects (Fellaini etc); one who won't waste time giving failed players the chance to prove themselves; one who won't respect reputations and favour seniority for its own sake.
 
I blame Fifa for people's obsession with pace. Not every player has to be pacy. There is a ton of examples of top level centre midfielders or centrebacks who are slow so it is a stupid reason to not rate Blind.
 
Darmian is 26 years old, hardly getting much better than he is today. Sometimes he plays like he's only 19 years old, but I am willing to give him another season to prove himself.
 
SteveJ said:
We need a dictator/radical type of new manager. One who won't waste time persevering with doomed projects (Fellaini etc); one who won't give failed players the chance to prove themselves; one who won't respect reputations and favour seniority for its own sake.
Click to expand...

I actually disagree completely. What we need right now is some stability, we've been bringing too many players in/out each year lately. We need someone to come in and do some light restructuring, sorting out the right wing fiasco and adding a striker / rb and perhaps cb to the squad.
 
RedSky said:
I actually disagree completely. What we need right now is some stability, we've been bringing too many players in/out each year lately. We need someone to come in and do some light restructuring, sorting out the right wing fiasco and adding a striker / rb and perhaps cb to the squad.
Click to expand...
Don't take any notice. Steve want Hitler.:p
 
Blind, Linguard, Young are good squad players, Memphis & Januzaj are 20 and 21, shown talent so why fob them off so easily? Darmian and Schneiderlin are in their first seasons and both shown enough talent to play for us previously, lets give them a 2nd under a real manager first yea?
Do not agree that we need some biblical overhaul again. 3 solid first teamers this summer and a real manager and review once more at seasons end.
 
RedSky said:
I actually disagree completely. What we need right now is some stability, we've been bringing too many players in/out each year lately. We need someone to come in and do some light restructuring, sorting out the right wing fiasco and adding a striker / rb and perhaps cb to the squad.
Click to expand...

Tbh, that kind of intelligent approach is what I'm suggesting - the language I used is really all about how important I think it is to change our approach rapidly.
 
If its easier to list who is actually good enough or worth keeping.

First Team
1. Martial
2. DDG
3. Mike Smalling
4. Shaw (hopefully when he's fit he can retain his form)

youngsters
1. CBJ

One more season
1. Depay
2. Schneiderlin

Thats all I can think of from the current squad who are worth keeping hold of and developing for the future.
 
Are you saying Lingard wouldn't be first choice RW at Barcelona? Or Atletico? Or City? Or Leicester ... or Southampton or ... feck it, you're right :(
 
Ferguson obliterated teams with Anderson, Cleverley, Park, Fletcher and the twins playing parts. Leicester are top of the league with Danny Drinkwater and Danny Simpson playing every match.

Managers earn their money by setting teams up to be more than the sum of their parts. We're the opposite.

We have a talented squad. Players like Schneiderlein, Darmian, and to a lesser extent Depay are not out of nowhere nobodies. They've shown in the past they have quality, but not at this United. Di Maria even more so.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
You're wrong.

di Maria went from WC to garbage in one season.
RvP had a decent season in 13/14 went to garbage next season.
Rooney went from good to absolute donkey on one season.
Mata has been up and down over 2 years.
Herrera ... need not say more.
Darmian, Italy's best right back, doesn't resemble a football player.
Schneiderlin, brilliant for Southampton, donkey poo for us.
Memphis. Say all you want, myself included, he went from 30 goals to completely useless.

I, whole heartedly, blame van Gaal, and no one else. He's sucked the life out of nearly everyone of our players.
Click to expand...

You mean 2011..
 
It's not really a suprise that our best outfield players this season (Shaw, Martial, Smalling) all have genuine pace. LVG even pointed it out before the season, sure he got Martial but we need others like him.

Now obviously pace isn't the be all and end all but we need it to compliment the slower paced players in the team. Mata for example would look a different player with multiple runners around him. I think we got the last transfer window very very wrong.

Defensively we are ok. We conceded two against Sunderland but that could easily have happened in the Ferguson era, the difference being we would have scored at least three!
 
Beachryan said:
Ferguson obliterated teams with Anderson, Cleverley, Park, Fletcher and the twins playing parts. Leicester are top of the league with Danny Drinkwater and Danny Simpson playing every match.

Managers earn their money by setting teams up to be more than the sum of their parts. We're the opposite.

We have a talented squad. Players like Schneiderlein, Darmian, and to a lesser extent Depay are not out of nowhere nobodies. They've shown in the past they have quality, but not at this United. Di Maria even more so.
Click to expand...

You're spot on, watching Spurs beat City yesterday infuriated me no end, It's debatable if any of their players would get into Citys 1st team on paper, and not many even into ours (1st choice 11) yet worked and hustled and came away with the win, now real title challengers.
Lets get in a proper fecking manager first before we jettison the entire squad.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.