WC All-time All-Stars QF4: Anto vs Theon

[antohan]

Depends on what you call 'on the break' here. Theon certainly won't get anything out of long balls over the top, I agree with that. I struggle to believe you can force him to play those at the moment though.

Those are the worry in that setup, that's when you are completely exposed if facing a centreforward who can exploit it. Players building up and advancing on the ball is fine by me, all three defenders and five midfielders (+Puskas on Scirea from deep) can errr "replegar" (fall back?) in an organised way. That's entirely fine, the danger (absent here) is the lightning quick counter with a ball over the top taking out the entire defensive setup and a centreforward running free on goal.

The following is far from perfect, but I hope you get my problem here? I don't know that much about Ghiggia's defensive contribution, he might have brilliant workrate, but tracking prime Roberto Carlos with Beckenbauer making himself available for 1-2s, can't see it working to be honest. When Andrade steps out after Carlos is past Ghiggia you're already lost, it's too late. I basically had the same problem in my game, which lead to my more 'controling pressing' approach with the focus on defensive organisation and intercepting passes rather than winning the ball back high up the pitch all the time. But you can't do that with your players and him having Scirea, Falcao and Beckenbauer here around his penalty area available to bring the ball forward is something else.

Carlos run takes out your entire midfield or you leave Falcao free, which allows him to get the ball forward as well.

The problem with this is the way you have placed the players bears no resemblance to mine. Look again, when I'm in possession (and thus also as soon as I lose it) Neeskens is bang on alongside Laudrup (I find it hilarious that on my first game Aldo though Neeskens couldn't pull a Hudegkuti, now you say Laudrup can't and Neeskens should be there). Junior takes up the Zacharias role as there's no wide threat to worry about at all on that flank.

Most imortant, look at where I have Andrade and Junior. They are either side of Boszik, i.e. Andrade is primed to cut off that triangulation you are pointing out. Why on earth would he be standing around in no man's land like you have him doing there?

 

[Balu]

Most imortant, look at where I have Andrade and Junior. They are either side of Boszik, i.e. Andrade is primed to cut off that triangulation you are pointing out. Why on earth would he be standing around in no man's land like you have him doing there?

It all happens in one half actually, I just dragged it a bit apart because it all was too close together, the problem is still the same, imo. Your problem is that Zico and Baggio are dragged deeper as well, when you push Andrade and Junior forward. You can't have Neeskens and Bozsik pressing against Falcao and Beckenbauer and then Andrade covering Baggio and the space Carlos runs into. You're really in trouble here, I've no idea how to defend that with high pressing.

You could have Bozsik staying deeper, but then I simply don't believe that Laudrup on Beckenbauer will work.

/edit:
Carlos doesn't need to do something big with the ball, Andrade running towards him, while Carlos slips it past him to Baggio and you're in trouble. Bozsik staying deeper, Beckenbauer dribbling past Laudrup and playing a pass to one of the 3 attackers, you're in trouble.

 

[antohan]

In my eyes the half-time change is pointless and won't add anything to you Anto. The main reason I'd prefer the Mighty Magyars formation is because Zico/Muller and Baggio would all have huge troubles defensively. Off the ball they will be a weakness that you naturally exploit with such a controlling formation.

That's the main issue for his midfield, they won't do much to stop the fallback on Bozsik and Junior. Let's make it more tangible, imagine having Scholes and Carrick in midfield with Czibor, Neeskens, Puskas, Laudrup and Ghiggia in front of them. Just like with United, they try, they probe, something doesn't look promising so the ball comes back to them... They can do that all day long with Beckenabuer and Falcao running around to keep the bases as well covered as possible but they can't under any circumstances go for the root problem of Scholes and Carrick dictating, they need Zico and Baggio to sort that out. Will they? The feck they will.

So for me the deciding battle will be Ghiggia VS Carlos+Kohler and on the other side Andrade+Da Guia vs Czibor. I am not sure who would win this, if it was just one of the full-backs without support it would be Anto dominating this.

Two wingers who shone in the World Cup, both scoring and assisting in the final and the semifinal. We sometimes make it sound like wingers can't lose their men when, in fact, they are the players who have most often done it since the beginning of time. The cover is only good for stopping them cutting in/shooting, but for some reason we seem to have this image of crosses being blocked by the pure existence of cover. It's all quite ridiculous, isn't it? I can see the point in all these wingerless formations now, wingers are treated as not any better than fullbacks, except that fullbacks can defend as well. Bonkers.

Now it is hard to see any team score because in my eyes the offensive 3 of Theon aren't suited for counter-attacks. The ones to score for Theon would be Beckenbauer/Falcao after the offensive 3 fecked up a counter. Beckenbauer/Falcao had a goal per game in them combined, so it wouldn't be odd for them to get a goal in.

At least one of them absolutely has to be stuck behind protecting the counter though. I think theon does get one at some point, but would struggle to score more than that. He only gets a second because I would decide to drop back and soak, and I stand by that, because you have a much tighter grip and control over the random factors that affect a game (slips, bad backpasses, a ref not spotting an offside, jammy stuff in general can hurt you more with the more attacking setup).

 

[antohan]

I agree with Balu, if Neeskens was in the Laudrup role and you had a DM more defensive than Bozcik then I would have voted already for you.

And yet both of you agreed it was mental for me to pick Matthaus. Guess what the roles were meant to be there?

Still, I insist on the one minor switch I've made in Junior effectively being the left-half given the absence of any meaningful threat down his flank. In possession (and immediately after losing it) I don't have Hidegkuti, I have both Neeskens and Laudrup combining to play out that role.

 

[Balu]

I don't think it would be boring. At least, I sincerely hope it wouldn't be

I think you lost the identity of the team somewhere on the way (no wonder with these damn restrictions really). That's a mean Italian defense, a mix out of hard working Germans and Brazilian elegance in midfield and attack and inbetween Baggio. It's all a bit weird, there are some connections on the pitch but they don't really dictate the playing style of the team. I can see it work in a very effective way, though, but boring.

 

[Annahnomoss]

And yet both of you agreed it was mental for me to pick Matthaus. Guess what the roles were meant to be there?

Still, I insist on the one minor switch I've made in Junior effectively being the left-half given the absence of any meaningful threat down his flank. In possession (and immediately after losing it) I don't have Hidegkuti, I have both Neeskens and Laudrup combining to play out that role.

Matthäus wouldn't fit that role either so he wouldn't be a good pick. I'd like to see someone who is almost solely defensive. Varela for example would be a beast in that position.

I think Neeskens in Laudrups role and then Varela as second pick(I know restrictions made it impossible) would have been ideal. Still yet to decide who to vote for, I think it is leaning towards Anto.

 

[Balu]

And yet both of you agreed it was mental for me to pick Matthaus. Guess what the roles were meant to be there?

That was highly influence by your underdog theme, not because he wouldn't help you win games with these tactics .

 

[antohan]

Two well drafted teams with players faithful both to their strengths and World Cup roles. As is the case with any talent-laden, top-heavy set-up, Antohan would be unplayable much of the time, but get picked off by a pragmatic, defensively robust unit like Theon's. Fundamentally I see too much strain placed on Junior and R. Andrade here: it's a massive ask for them to defend as a tight three but also protect the flanks to some degree given how high Czibor and Ghiggia are on the park. There are only a small handful of defenders who could pull that job off - Maldini, Krol, Santos and Thuram are the ones that come to mind. And even then it's a hell of a task.

Can't disagree. The plan for the next reinforcement round was Krol and Djalma (or Cruyff if trippy won). That would have been the team completely sorted.

For instance, an early ball out to Baggio, he drops the shoulder and dips inside Andrade (how many times did he do that in '90 and '94?) and it's chaos for Figueroa to deal with.

The Puskas, Romario and Laudrup (who is under-rated in this draft) axis would be fantastic to watch and get a couple of goals, even against as outstanding a defence as Theon possesses. But there is far too much vulnerability on the counter for my liking. Theon has very few if any weaknesses now. Carlos is freed up to be the blistering flank-dominator he was in '02. The switch from 4-2-2-2 has made all the difference.

That's the entire point, banking on getting those early and reverting to a less risky setup which would still pose a significant threat on the break. No one seems to be giving any importance at all to that, but I have absolutely no doubt in my mind the team that has prepared to play this game all week would shaft the one that hasn't for much of the first half. That's the entire point of a gameplan and tactical curveballs, isn't it? Not on Redcafe I suppose, Moyes has robbed us of any imagination apparently.

 

[Balu]

Still, I insist on the one minor switch I've made in Junior effectively being the left-half given the absence of any meaningful threat down his flank. In possession (and immediately after losing it) I don't have Hidegkuti, I have both Neeskens and Laudrup combining to play out that role.

I'm not to worried about in possession, really. I think you just loose 3-2 or 4-2 after going up in the first half. Theon will pick you apart a few times too often and keep you from outscoring him. I don't think your tactics are necessarily wrong, quite the opposite, it's just, Theon has the tools to overcome them and hurt your defense with individual brilliance .

 

[antohan]

1 - I said that you have one centre back, so that is going to cause problems. Obviously there are things you can do to nullify it, Junior and Andrade might tuck in more for example, but I don't think its very convincing.

Might? Is this the only game were unchallenged wide defenders are not assumed to tuck in?

If you had a back three which really did consist of a left centre back and a right centre back, such as Maldini - Figueroa - Thuram, then I guess it could work somewhat, though personally I still think even that fantastic three would be vulnerable because there is no escaping the fact that instead of wingbacks you have actual wingers.

I was very close to picking Thuram over Cannavaro but, realistically, Andrade is better suited to this and I liked how Junior fitted in with releasing Neeskens a bit more.

In terms of defending I think a theme of the game - perhaps the most important one - is your forward players turning around and sprinting back towards their goal. You say you're playing a high press so we know there is huge space in behind, and as soon as that press is beaten - which is bound to happen with talented passers all over the pitch and Scirea instigating attacks from deep - you're going to need to back pedal at a lightening pace.

Not really, because you don't have it, that's the entire point I've made from the off!

 

[antohan]

A lot of what antohan is saying is based on one thing, its probably the most important point he makes and you need to accept it for his argument to be pursuasive - that Zico/Muller/Baggio are slow and not capable of taking advantage of highline consisting of just one centre back.

I didn't say slow, show me where exactly I said slow. i said they didn't have the pace to trouble a highline with (here it goes again) JUNIOR, FIGUEROA, ANDRADE AND CHILAVERT as sweeper-keeper. You aren't half stubborn and thick, aren't you?

 

[antohan]

Not true.

Beckenbauer played centre mid in both '66 and '70, it was only '74 that he went back to defence. In the early '66 version he was much more attacking which I have mentioned, but in '70 he was a box to box colossus, bossing the game both defensively and in possession.

Fair enough, I just loved Beckenbauer 66 though so that's the midfield Beckenbauer I usually think about.

 

[antohan]

Any feedback lads?

I think Andrade maybe isn't the most natural there, but not sure what else is wrong with it.

Andrade in a five is a complete waste of a player. You clearly don't understand how he and his nephew played given your persistence on "he is not a defender". Andrade going forward was used to having five attackers to distribute to (a bit like Junior playmaking from deeper positions), he doesn't here. He wasn't one to hug the line and send in crosses or any such thing. Andrade defending would keep tabs on a winger so long as the tracking winger wasn't around, but his main reference would be the inside left and supporting the right "fullback" (CB). In fact, very much what a modern RCB does.

I've said before your frontline is screaming out for Romario. As I told Pol, I think you would have both been better off if he got Muller and you got Eusebio.

Da Guia is an issue tactically since he wouldn't be adept at defending higher up, which I think you absolutely need to be able to do, particularly without a pacey CF upfront. The distance between your lines is fecking humongous. Not playing a card here, this game is over really, I honestly think you are brutally exposed by how stretched you are from back to front.

 

[antohan]

One point: I think this is more true for Junior than for Andrade. The latter was by all accounts no mug defensively - and Anto makes a point of this in his write-up too: He is mainly there to provide defensive solidity. You could argue that one might as well replace him with a pure defender/centrehalf, then, but that would hurt the plan, which depends on a certain flexibility on the part of both these players (Junior and Andrade become fullbacks in a more modern sense after Cannavaro comes on).

Exactly. I'm aware Junior is no Krol (which is why I hoped to pick him next), he does have pace and ability on the ball and, being largely unchallenged, would effectively play more as the left-half alongside Bozsik for large portions of the game and would be largely concerned with Zico.

 

[antohan]

I think he's really only talking about long balls over the top like he stated in the op where he called that the achilles heel of the Magyar tactics and I agree with him here. I can't see your attacking players exploiting it. The ball needs to get past Figueroa's brilliant positioning, then your players need to overcome the offside trap, get to the ball before his keeper sweeps it away, then control it and score before one of the defenders (and his fullbacks really are fast) is with your players. Can't see that happening in this game. I think that danger is largely exaggerated in general, even with pre injury Ronaldo in there instead of Müller, I could see him getting away with it.

Exactly.

The point you need to accept to believe Anto would win the game is that your team can't play through his pressing and his team really forces you into longballs. That's what I really can't see.

You don't need extreme pace, when you get the ball to your attacking 3 and then run often enough 3vs2 on his defenders. You just pass your way through until Müller scores.

Well, I don't think I said that. I do think he will struggle to get into any sort of rhythm, but I'm not denying they can build up gradually. If they do though, you are looking at Zico+one of the CMs+2 strikers+Bobby trying to play their way through Junior, Figueroa, Andrade, Bozsik and Neeskens. That's 5v5 ignoring my wingers and assuming Puskas is on Scirea and Laudrup and Ghiggia on whichever CM stayed behind and Czibor just keeping tabs on Andrade deep.

Where's the 3v2?

 

[Annahnomoss]

Anto gets my vote because he has balls of steel. Won't change results at all so it is an honorary vote.

 

[antohan]

I don't think it would be boring. At least, I sincerely hope it wouldn't be - my whole remit when I started was to create an entertaining team like Brazil 1982!

Yes, we noticed... then you went catenaccio.

I dunno, Brazil 2002 played some good stuff and I think in the middle that foursome of Falcao/Beckenbauer/Zico/Baggio would play some wonderful football - with Müller spearheading the attack.

It's nothing like Brazil 2002. The only thing bearing a significant resemblance is... your leftback.

 

[antohan]

It all happens in one half actually, I just dragged it a bit apart because it all was too close together, the problem is still the same, imo. Your problem is that Zico and Baggio are dragged deeper as well, when you push Andrade and Junior forward. You can't have Neeskens and Bozsik pressing against Falcao and Beckenbauer and then Andrade covering Baggio and the space Carlos runs into. You're really in trouble here, I've no idea how to defend that with high pressing.

You could have Bozsik staying deeper, but then I simply don't believe that Laudrup on Beckenbauer will work.

Carlos doesn't need to do something big with the ball, Andrade running towards him, while Carlos slips it past him to Baggio and you're in trouble. Bozsik staying deeper, Beckenbauer dribbling past Laudrup and playing a pass to one of the 3 attackers, you're in trouble.

Boszik does stay deeper, it is Neeskens and Laudrup there. As you know, I would have rather it were Neeskens and Cruyff, never got there though so Laudrup will have to work a wee bit harder.

Which of the three attackers is Beckenbauer going to pass to which will get me in trouble? Worst case Andrade has been dragged by Carlos, Bozsik is tracking Baggio, Junior on Zico, Figueroa on Muller... It's very finely balanced, I agree, which is why ideally I would have got to 100% the best possible players for all roles, but the Magyars did play in much more imbalanced circumstances and managed to come tops.

As said, the main point was that the first half would be mine out of 1. being prepared for the game as laid out, 2. confusion in the other side (which would indeed have lead to much trying out of luck with long balls before deciding it was pointless), 3. having a rather strong attacking lineup (which of course has been completely overlooked).

It's not outlandish. Then by the time they worked out how to play against it and exploit it... they would be playing against a 4-2-3-1. I understand though, it's more pragmatic to assume boring football will keep a clean sheet all game and eventually nick a goal. That's why I chose to go with this homage theme, because that logic is what has made the World Cup boring as feck.

 

[antohan]

Matthäus wouldn't fit that role either so he wouldn't be a good pick. I'd like to see someone who is almost solely defensive. Varela for example would be a beast in that position.

I think Neeskens in Laudrups role and then Varela as second pick(I know restrictions made it impossible) would have been ideal. Still yet to decide who to vote for, I think it is leaning towards Anto.

Aye, had Varela lasted long enough in the initial drafts I had a Plan B whereby I got hold of him. The minor issue though was he would have been better on the Andrade-Ghiggia flank he was familiar with and I didn't want to move Bozsik away from his usual position (the sort of thing that regularly happens and no one gives two fecks about, mind).

 

[Annahnomoss]

Aye, had Varela lasted long enough in the initial drafts I had a Plan B whereby I got hold of him. The minor issue though was he would have been better on the Andrade-Ghiggia flank he was familiar with and I didn't want to move Bozsik away from his usual position (the sort of thing that regularly happens and no one gives two fecks about, mind).

Then again you'd still lose as nobody rates Varela except other managers in the drafts. Sadly enough. I think Bozsik/Czibor suffers the same fate as well.

 

[Balu]

Which of the three attackers is Beckenbauer going to pass to which will get me in trouble? Worst case Andrade has been dragged by Carlos, Bozsik is tracking Baggio, Junior on Zico, Figueroa on Muller... It's very finely balanced, I agree, which is why ideally I would have got to 100% the best possible players for all roles, but the Magyars did play in much more imbalanced circumstances and managed to come tops.

Who's attacking Beckenbauer when he's running forward with the ball? One of your defenders needs to step towards him at one point, and there you go, one pass away from a 3vs2 towards goal.

I've never said your tactics are wrong, I said individual brilliance in certain moments allows Theon to play through your team, more often than the other way round, imo.

 

[antohan]

I'm not to worried about in possession, really. I think you just loose 3-2 or 4-2 after going up in the first half. Theon will pick you apart a few times too often and keep you from outscoring him. I don't think your tactics are necessarily wrong, quite the opposite, it's just, Theon has the tools to overcome them and hurt your defense with individual brilliance .

You think I win the first half but I fall behind after reverting to this? I think I'm far more likely to score there than he is!

Again, he can't defend higher up, which creates enormous space between the lines (let alone the massive greenfields ahead of Ghiggia with Carlos committed forward).

Incredible really, sounds like we are all very happy to say X, Y or Z are great but when it comes to the crunch they all turn to shit and are easy to handle.

 

[antohan]

Then again you'd still lose as nobody rates Varela except other managers in the drafts. Sadly enough. I think Bozsik/Czibor suffers the same fate as well.

Why would I care? I was never going to win picking players to perfect a W-W! Bozsik and Czibor is infuriating, Czibor in particular. Point out which left winger would be better in this draft, pick any you want, just find a better one.

Nope, none, but I may as well have Ashley Young there.

 

[antohan]

Who's attacking Beckenbauer when he's running forward with the ball? One of your defenders needs to step towards him at one point, and there you go, one pass away from a 3vs2 towards goal.

I've never said your tactics are wrong, I said individual brilliance in certain moments allows Theon to play through your team, more often than the other way round, imo.

All based on the assumption that Laudrup won't keep at it, nor Ghiggia would come to his help. Your scenario implies he has already shaken off the attentions of two players. None of my players are afforded that luxury, apparently none of them can beat a man.

Puskas, Romario, Ghiggia, Czibor, Laudrup, Neeskens... none of them can beat a man or take them out through their movement and receiving unmarked. Nope, all mugs.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Anto gets my vote because he has balls of steel. Won't change results at all so it is an honorary vote.

I'll second that. I think he deserves more votes for his innovation here - it's a great variation on a truly classic WC formation and a very interesting, detailed match plan to boot. It's a risky approach, obviously. But I'd like to think it actually pays off. They open ferociously in an unexpected formation and take the lead - and then they change their approach (and the formation itself).

Now, this is no slight on Theon's team - it's a very strong XI with few weak spots. But there is something less organic about it - for me - compared to Anto's team. I stress that this is just a wishy-washy observation on my part, though - personal taste more than anything.

@Theon The obvious criticism for me is Andrade. The older Andrade (uncle José!) was a half-back or more precisely a wing-half. It's not crazy to use him as a modern style fullback, perhaps, but to me it's not ideal either: Duncan Edwards was a wing-half. He would be wasted as a modern fullback for me - I would much rather use him as a midfielder. So, were I you I would definitely replace Andrade with a proper (modern) fullback.

Great match-up, this one - so many points of interest all over the pitch!

 

[Annahnomoss]

Why would I care? I was never going to win picking players to perfect a W-W! Bozsik and Czibor is infuriating, Czibor in particular. Point out which left winger would be better in this draft, pick any you want, just find a better one.

Nope, none, but I may as well have Ashley Young there.

Wasn't trying to go against you in any way in fact quite the opposite.

 

[antohan]

Wasn't trying to go against you in any way in fact quite the opposite.

I know mate. If it came across badly, that was not my intention!

 

[Fergus' son]

Went for theon, probably has the strongest team in the draft IMO.

 

[antohan]

13 people think this is less likely to result in goals:

than this:

And the more he advances the more there is a huge gaping hole for me to attack on the counter.

Go figure.

 

[Balu]

You think I win the first half but I fall behind after reverting to this? I think I'm far more likely to score there than he is!

Again, he can't defend higher up, which creates enormous space between the lines (let alone the massive greenfields ahead of Ghiggia with Carlos committed forward).

Incredible really, sounds like we are all very happy to say X, Y or Z are great but when it comes to the crunch they all turn to shit and are easy to handle.

I never said you win the first half, I said you will go up or take the lead or something like that. I expect him to counter you soon enough.

And yes, I think he has a better chance of scoring than you with a complete change in tactics after 45 minutes. It's one thing to see out a game for the last 15minutes by slightly adjusting, but you not only alter your tactics slightly, you completely change it at half time and I can't think of many teams that are drilled for dominating, attacking football that can turn it around perfectly. I'm not sold on your gameplan as much as I enjoyed reading it. And I can see you loosing it both ways.

Not really sure why you bring up stuff about themes or how I rate individual players. I'm sure you don't want a sympathy vote if you didn't convince me that you would win? Maybe I get to explain a few things later, but I really need to watch football now. Finally the fecking winterbreak is over .

 

[antohan]

I never said you win the first half, I said you will go up or take the lead or something like that. I expect him to counter you soon enough.

And yes, I think he has a better chance of scoring than you with a complete change in tactics after 45 minutes. It's one thing to see out a game for the last 15minutes by slightly adjusting, but you not only alter your tactics slightly, you completely change it at half time and I can't think of many teams that are drilled for dominating, attacking football that can turn it around perfectly. I'm not sold on your gameplan as much as I enjoyed reading it. And I can see you loosing it both ways.

It's not too radical a change and it effectively switches to how they played the last game. I'm not really sitting back, just adding a defender, the whole high line stuff, etc. would remain (now with Neeskens back to doing a Hidegkuti in possession, as last time). The "backs-against-the wall" teamsheet is not the instruction but an indication of how deadly I would be on the break after a period of sustained pressure (bound to happen if the other side is chasing the game).

Not really sure why you bring up stuff about themes or how I rate individual players. I'm sure you don't want a sympathy vote if you didn't convince me that you would win? Maybe I get to explain a few things later, but I really need to watch football now. Finally the fecking winterbreak is over .

It's just a general complaint, not precisely directed at you. We want these drafts to offer more variety and interesting scenarios yet the fact remains when it comes to the crunch there's a single winning formula. Boring, that's all. It's a WC draft, I think you would struggle to find many WC winners which played anything like each other, yet these drafts invariably default to one way of winning them. Reality shows that doesn't make sense.

 

[Balu]

It's just a general complaint, not precisely directed at you. We want these drafts to offer more variety and interesting scenarios yet the fact remains when it comes to the crunch there's a single winning formula. Boring, that's all. It's a WC draft, I think you would struggle to find many WC winners which played anything like each other, yet these drafts invariably default to one way of winning them. Reality shows that doesn't make sense.

Yet you voted against my great theme twice, because someone would beat me with boring football on the counter .

It's not too radical a change and it effectively switches to how they played the last game. I'm not really sitting back, just adding a defender, the whole high line stuff, etc. would remain (now with Neeskens back to doing a Hidegkuti in possession, as last time). The "backs-against-the wall" teamsheet is not the instruction but an indication of how deadly I would be on the break after a period of sustained pressure (bound to happen if the other side is chasing the game).

Hmm, fair enough, still not convinced, but I'll look into it later again.

 

[antohan]

Yet you voted against my great theme twice, because someone would beat me with boring football on the counter .

Trippy was boring? I don't think I even mentioned the counter or made too much of a deal of Zidane-Ronaldo. Lato looked dangerous (and I clearly give wingers more credit than most) but it was Masopust that really was doing it for me. I could see you coming unstuck in that square of death he had at the bottom of his spine. Just like I can't see Theon getting much joy with such a narrow approach which really plays into my hands.

Oh well, gives me an idea how much worse it would have been against a side with any pace and width (Garrincha-Eusebio-Boniek with Maradona behind was certainly not an attractive prospect!).

 

[antohan]

Anyhow, rain has stopped and it's clearing up, doubt I'll be back again.

I do think this game would be won 4 out of 5 times, but clearly most of you think differently. United fans, really?

Shame on you! This was the treat I was working towards for a goalfest final against a proper CF, but I guess it won't happen now. It was very likely to come through as the two at the back would likely get picked up next and hopefully I could knock Balu out next (the only side I could be conceivably knocking out! ).

Your loss. Nah, I know, mine

 

[Balu]

That comment wasn't meant to be taken that seriously. But I think you're a bit harsh here on Theon's team. I wouldn't have expected to go through against him as well.

 

[Balu]

Oh, but I would have loved to play it out against you about who gets to have Neeskens and Cruyff together in one team .

 

[antohan]

Oh, but I would have loved to play it out against you about who gets to have Neeskens and Cruyff together in one team .

Bastard! Neeskens doesn't want to go, he is having too much fun with these teammates

He is particularly enjoying not being turned into Cruyff's bitch. I had kept that under wraps and it would have needed some careful man-management.

"You know that Hidegkuti role you've been filling in occasionally? Well, we just got the Real Johann for it so you are now Zacharias". So unfair I do truly think that while Cruyff was the main genius Neeskens' impact and consistency throughout the tournament should at least put him on level terms.

 

[Balu]

I really hope no one picks him up because those fecking restrictions make him valuable. But I can't see it in any of the teams. I would go fecking mental, and yes I completely agree, I rate Neeskens individually incredibly high. Cruyff and Neeskens together is just awsome though and I hope Haan gets a boost as well.

 

[Theon]

You aren't half stubborn and thick, aren't you?

Carry on embarrassing yourself

Fair enough, I just loved Beckenbauer 66 though so that's the midfield Beckenbauer I usually think about.

Aye, well you're wrong once again but that doesn't seem to stop you in these drafts.. So carry on.

 

[Theon]

I think you lost the identity of the team somewhere on the way (no wonder with these damn restrictions really). That's a mean Italian defense, a mix out of hard working Germans and Brazilian elegance in midfield and attack and inbetween Baggio. It's all a bit weird, there are some connections on the pitch but they don't really dictate the playing style of the team. I can see it work in a very effective way, though, but boring.

Oh yeah, it definitely has lost the 1982 identity, no doubt about that. It really had to though, the upgrades wouldn't allow anything else and certainly not to a good enough standard.

I still disagree on your general comment though, I think its a perfectly balanced team and there are ball players throughout the pitch. The three entertainers would primarily be Falcao/Zico/Baggio of course, and I can't see any team with those three being boring, particularly when you have the constant movement of Muller to contend with and the lightening bursts from Roberto Carlos. There is the potential for lovely football,. no question.

With Muller he should actually allow so much of the entertainment to take place, his drops of the shoulder and spins in behind will be bread and butter for Zico, particularly in a game like this where he's going to run at a defence. Countless little passes will be slipped through, as well as more general interplay between technical players in Baggio/Zico.