WC All Stars Chain Draft QF- 2mufc0 vs Sjor Bepo

With players at respective WC peaks, who will win this match?


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Is arbitrium your AM? :lol:

Not the same thing at all.
In WC single tournament performances draft Meazza credentials due to Italy's documented corruption are questionable IMO.

Combined with Stabile being impossible to accurately gauge I am not feeling that attack in a WC draft
 
Sjor was my favourite at the start of this round and I was hoping for a 433 with Rivaldo and Coluna. Coluna, Ardiles and Tigana are perfect players for a 3-man-midfield but not so great in a midfield 2. Especially when you are facing a blitzing midfield of Cubillas, Matthaus and Breitner.

Every one of those three is very much capable of beating the deadlock with a thunder from long range



I can see too much space in midfield. Matthaus storms forward, one defender comes out and gets beaten. Cubillas is also capable of that



Cracking little player. I know that was in 1978, but I think the point is clear that he can easily punish a team which fails to close him down in midfield
 
Not the same thing at all.
In WC single tournament performances draft Meazza credentials due to Italy's documented corruption are questionable IMO.

Combined with Stabile being impossible to accurately gauge I am not feeling that attack in a WC draft

Just joking of course mate. Although Meazza's credentials and style are well established beyond the WC's to dismiss him on corruption charges.
 
Breitner against Chile is probably my favourite long-range World Cup goal (wrong World Cup though). You have to remember that he is playing as a left back :lol:

 
@Šjor Bepo any reason in dropping Coluna? He's the better playmaker than Ardiles and might've been a better fit.

Apart from that - this is a GOAT defensive unit, pretty much at their peak form/level. Can't really see even Garrincha penetrating that Krol/Maldini left side, nor Stoichkov Cafu/Gentile on the other. Baresi will keep Vava quiet and whilst @2mufc0 has superior midfield, Desailly/Santamaria IMO is a bit of a bad fit for peak Ronaldo. Desailly has said numerous times that Fenomeno is the player he feared the most and usually he couldn't see the ball when Ronaldo was in possession. Ronaldo would probably tear them a new one here..
 
im just showing you that his goalscoring record isnt that great(its good) considering the level of his opponents.

Based on that logic, Stabe is not that great either
 
Ronaldo is a weird one, actually. Same as Zidane. If you combine their peak World Cups (1998 and 2006) with their performances in different finals (2002 and 1998), you have players that can rival Maradona's 1986. But you can't dismiss their performances in the final either...

So you have 1 in 7 chance that Ronaldo won't show up? Don't know how to solve this.
 
Just joking of course mate. Although Meazza's credentials and style are well established beyond the WC's to dismiss him on corruption charges.

This is a world cup single tournament performance draft though so all that is irrevelant.

Also I watched poor Domingos have his draft reputation ruined on here by @Raees posting ome horror tackle from 1938.

When I look at the few footage that is available from 1934 like I linked last game, Italy was basically scorong fecking NFL touchdowns after literally punching the goalkeeper in the face.

Without actually being able to analyze full matches those video clips are quite damning of how Italy played - not impressed
 
Desailly/Santamaria IMO is a bit of a bad fit for peak Ronaldo. Desailly has said numerous times that Fenomeno is the player he feared the most and usually he couldn't see the ball when Ronaldo was in possession. Ronaldo would probably tear them a new one here..
My last post was more or else a reply to this. As on paper he has everything to tear Desailly a new one, but in reality in the given World Cup Desailly has a stellar record against him.


:drool:
 
Ronaldo is a weird one, actually. Same as Zidane. If you combine their peak World Cups (1998 and 2006) with their performances in different finals (2002 and 1998), you have players that can rival Maradona's 1986. But you can't dismiss their performances in the final either...

So you have 1 in 7 chance that Ronaldo won't show up? Don't know how to solve this.

I think 2mufc0 can make a case here that ronaldo is against Desailly. Although he got sent off, he was untroubled (the reasons for which still aren’t 100% clear)
 
@Don Alfredo tactic is to sit deep, defend and hit on the counter - where is that space for Lothar? Not to mention 90 Germany was all about Lothar, everything went through him and the whole team was built for him to shine which here isnt the case. Not saying he wont be good or great but his offensive impact will be smaller.

@oneniltothearsenal are Desailly credentials also questionable?

@Enigma_87 had to many european players although it was that difficult as i wanted Ardiles in first XI from start, it was just specific circumstances where Coluna got available very late so i couldnt say no.

Based on that logic, Stabe is not that great either
read that whole post again and you will see the point i was trying to make

@harms one bad game cant put a shadow on the whole WC, if there wasnt for that final he would be up there with Maradona 86 and Pele 70 and now he isnt but is still in top 10 performances in history of WCs. And lets not forget, he wasnt 100% in that final, what happened before take a tool on both him and the whole team, reckon if nothing happened Brazil would have won that final.
 
Ronaldo’s 98 gets nowhere near the other great performances.

Norway, Morocco, Scotland in the group stages, Chile in R16 and an again Denmark in the quarters, they didn’t really get tested until the holland game.
 
My last post was more or else a reply to this. As on paper he has everything to tear Desailly a new one, but in reality in the given World Cup Desailly has a stellar record against him.


:drool:

What happened in that final was really strange and there are plenty of suggestions, but that really wasn't Ronaldo of that tournament and the rounds before.

Besides Desailly in the final wasn't really all that since he got send off soon after the 2nd half started and generally was a team effort against Ronaldo rather than really coping with him on his own.

There isn't a DM here who can also restrict Fenomeno taking the ball in deeper position and him running at Desailly and Santamaria IMO won't end well..
 
For all we know, ronaldo played shite because he was scared of Desailly. Heard a rumour he was Snapchatting him pictures at 2am of him and Lilian Thuram flexing.
 
@oneniltothearsenal are Desailly credentials questionable

Why would they be? We have a complete video account of his entire tournament. Plus from everything I read Italy 34 was simply the most corrupt winner of all time. Meazza shouldnt even have been playing the qf, sf, and final.

Also ill link that video again. Italy style of play was not even like modern football. When they are scoring goals that look lile rugby or NFL and on one of the few pieces of video we actually have Italy is scoring a goal that should have been red card! They punched the keeper right in the face right before the ball went in ffs!

Sorry mate but you should have played Rivaldo or Coluna instead and dropped Meazza. Dont think Stabile is QF worthy either
 
What happened in that final was really strange and there are plenty of suggestions, but that really wasn't Ronaldo of that tournament and the rounds before.

Besides Desailly in the final wasn't really all that since he got send off soon after the 2nd half started and generally was a team effort against Ronaldo rather than really coping with him on his own.

There isn't a DM here who can also restrict Fenomeno taking the ball in deeper position and him running at Desailly and Santamaria IMO won't end well..
Sorry this whole no DM thing is nonsense, and he won't be running at the Cbs straight off I have two of the toughest midfielders he has to get through first.

This whole Ronaldo is untouchable is getting tiresome, even Maradona doesn't get the same level of reverence even though he was more distructive than R9. Its weird.
 
Why would they be? We have a complete video account of his entire tournament. Plus from everything I read Italy 34 was simply the most corrupt winner of all time. Meazza shouldnt even have been playing the qf, sf, and final.

Also ill link that video again. Italy style of play was not even like modern football. When they are scoring goals that look lile rugby or NFL and on one of the few pieces of video we actually have Italy is scoring a goal that should have been red card! They punched the keeper right in the face right before the ball went in ffs!

Sorry mate but you should have played Rivaldo or Coluna instead and dropped Meazza. Dont think Stabile is QF worthy either

Whilst I agree with you on all accounts mate, I don't think we could really fault Meazza for that.
 
Sorry this whole no DM thing is nonsense, and he won't be running at the Cbs straight off I have two of the toughest midfielders he has to get through first.

This whole Ronaldo is untouchable is getting tiresome, even Maradona doesn't get the same level of reverence even though he was more distructive than R9. Its weird.
Breitner in 1982 wasn't the deepest of a midfield 3 as depicted here. He had Dremmler as a DM next to him and Bernd Förster even moved in midfield in the 2nd phase in an odd game.

I don't believe he's a good fit to Matthaus of 90 and also Cubillas in front of them. A holder would bring a lot more balance to that midfield IMO.
 
My money would be on Matthaus for MOM here, all things considered.
 
Sorry this whole no DM thing is nonsense, and he won't be running at the Cbs straight off I have two of the toughest midfielders he has to get through first.

This whole Ronaldo is untouchable is getting tiresome, even Maradona doesn't get the same level of reverence even though he was more distructive than R9. Its weird.

In an all time context it’s hard to argue with him, because at his peak no one came close to stopping him. But based on this World Cup? Honestly, he was brilliant but not a top 10 individual performance.
 
Why would they be? We have a complete video account of his entire tournament. Plus from everything I read Italy 34 was simply the most corrupt winner of all time. Meazza shouldnt even have been playing the qf, sf, and final.

Also ill link that video again. Italy style of play was not even like modern football. When they are scoring goals that look lile rugby or NFL and on one of the few pieces of video we actually have Italy is scoring a goal that should have been red card! They punched the keeper right in the face right before the ball went in ffs!

Sorry mate but you should have played Rivaldo or Coluna instead and dropped Meazza. Dont think Stabile is QF worthy either

The 62-year-old was laughing as he added: "There was a little trickery. We did not spend six years organising the World Cup to not do some little shenanigans. Do you think other World Cup hosts did not?" Michele Platini Shall we dismiss every performance from the french players on that tournament? Shall we dismiss Maradona performances because refs did the biggest feck up in WC history?

Personally i think im talking crap but in the same time i think everyone that is doubting Meazza is talking crap as well. You have ZERO proofs that World Cup 1934 wasnt legit, find me 1 proof and i will forfeit the game.

You saw a clip of 30 seconds or so...surprise, surprise football in 30s was different then they play it today.....
Check Argentina Holland game from 74' i think, they were battering themselves on the pitch and that wasnt modern football, we scrap that WC as well? Lets ignore Maradona as well as he cheated his way to the WC.
 
@Šjor Bepo the 1998 corruption was jusy to keep France and Brazil apart until the final. They both earned their way there legitimately.
 
The 62-year-old was laughing as he added: "There was a little trickery. We did not spend six years organising the World Cup to not do some little shenanigans. Do you think other World Cup hosts did not?" Michele Platini Shall we dismiss every performance from the french players on that tournament? Shall we dismiss Maradona performances because refs did the biggest feck up in WC history?

Personally i think im talking crap but in the same time i think everyone that is doubting Meazza is talking crap as well. You have ZERO proofs that World Cup 1934 wasnt legit, find me 1 proof and i will forfeit the game.

You saw a clip of 30 seconds or so...surprise, surprise football in 30s was different then they play it today.....
Check Argentina Holland game from 74' i think, they were battering themselves on the pitch and that wasnt modern football, we scrap that WC as well? Lets ignore Maradona as well as he cheated his way to the WC.

The game ended 1-1, which in 1934 meant a replay would be contested the following day. Spain were forced to make seven changes to their starting eleven such was the ferocity of the previous day’s play.

The Azzurri emerged victorious from the replay with a 1-0 win, yet some decidedly favourable calls from the referee left a sour taste for many neutrals, as Mussolini watched on approvingly.

The hosts took the lead in the eleventh minute through a Guiseppe Meazza goal. Spain then had two goals disallowed, one for a questionable offside, the next so that the referee could pull play back and award a free-kick to Spain bizarrely.

Italy then beat Austria 1-0 in the semi-final while the other semi-final, contested by Czechoslovakia and Germany, was a source of further controversy.

Rinaldo Barlassina, an Italian, was the appointed referee. An unusual situation given his nation had an undeniable vested interest in the game and Barlassina, it is contended, felt particularly patriotic that day.

Barlassina is said to have made a number of questionable decisions in favour of Czechoslovakia, a side who would provide a far weaker opposition for Italy in the final. The Czechs won 3-1.

Its widely accepted that italy cheated to win that world cup.
 
The 62-year-old was laughing as he added: "There was a little trickery. We did not spend six years organising the World Cup to not do some little shenanigans. Do you think other World Cup hosts did not?" Michele Platini Shall we dismiss every performance from the french players on that tournament? Shall we dismiss Maradona performances because refs did the biggest feck up in WC history?

Personally i think im talking crap but in the same time i think everyone that is doubting Meazza is talking crap as well. You have ZERO proofs that World Cup 1934 wasnt legit, find me 1 proof and i will forfeit the game.

You saw a clip of 30 seconds or so...surprise, surprise football in 30s was different then they play it today.....
Check Argentina Holland game from 74' i think, they were battering themselves on the pitch and that wasnt modern football, we scrap that WC as well? Lets ignore Maradona as well as he cheated his way to the WC.

Not even remotely comparable and I linked articles from the last tournament.
Sorry but you are the one big upping Meazza. The onus is on YOU to prove that he was actually good and not just the beneficiary of illegal punches to the face of the goalkeeper.
If you weren't trying to big up Meazza so much I never would have posted my opinions here again. You act like its so obvious when everything I find supports me doubting Meaza credentials. Meazza himself was accused of cheating in multiple matches.

Fact is, you simply cannot *know* if Meazza was really as amazing as you say in that World Cup or if it was more hindsight that best player on the winning team naturally wins golden boot. unlike Desailly who can all judge for ourselves or the tragically unselected players like Roger Milla who IMO deserved a run out in this draft far more than Stabile ffs.. From what I have read from South American journalists, European journalists and speaking this week directly to an Italian I know who is actually a Meazza fan- even he admits that 34 was questionable and Meazza's credentials "should be taken with skepticism".
 
Personally i think im talking crap but in the same time i think everyone that is doubting Meazza is talking crap as well. You have ZERO proofs that World Cup 1934 wasnt legit, find me 1 proof and i will forfeit the game.
Don't think that you should forfeit in any case but I'd agree with onenil's caution regarding that tournament, maybe not to that extent, but still. That World Cup was dodgy as feck.
 
Oh and on the topic of Maradona, I think its generally accepted that if he didn't score that wondergoal where he dribbled the England side, the perception of the Hand of God would have probably been a lot different.
 
Italy won their first match. USA was beaten 7-1, a scoreline that surprised everyone. The quarter final was played between Spain and the Italy and a resilient Spain made the corrupted referees’ jobs very difficult and forced the hosts to a replay. Il Duce of course ensured that Italy win this match with the help of his pawn, Rene Mercet- the referee officiating the match- to progress further.

The Italians faced favourites Austria, who were known as the Wunderteam, in the semi final and won 1-0. It is believed, and rightly too, that Mussolini himself had dinner with the Swedish referee, Ivan Eklind, who would officiate the following match, the day before. Why? To discuss ‘tactics’ of course.

Ever heard of Josef Bican? He is by far, one of the most criminally underrated players in the history of the game. A goal-scorer of almost superhuman enormity, the centre-forward was a highly prolific player and could run 100 metres in an impressive 10.6 seconds. (officially, he has scored 805 goals in 530 matches. If we include matches not recognised by FIFA Bican’s total rises to an estimated 1468 goal in 918 games). Bican maintained till his death in 2001, that he was certain that the referee Eklind had been bribed. The Austrian-Czech had good reason to say so too. After all, his ball sent to the right wing was headed to an Italian player by the referee who had intercepted it by mistake! The solitary goal of the match was scored by Enrique Guiata (which many people claimed was offside), one of the Oriundi, and its build-up saw the Austrian Goalkeeper being pushed blatantly.

The same Swedish referee (Ivan Eklind), who officiated the semi-final, was asked to look over the final. He was even invited to the Fascist VIP box before the match began. Italy won the final against Czechoslovakia 2-1. Czechoslovakia initially held the lead through Antonio Puc’s goal, but the equalizer was scored by Raimundo Orsi (another oriundi) five minutes before the final whistle.
 
Don't think that you should forfeit in any case but I'd agree with onenil's caution regarding that tournament, maybe not to that extent, but still. That World Cup was dodgy as feck.

even in the last time i agreed it was dodgy but its also stupid to dismiss the whole WC because there are no evidence and if Italy cheated his way to the WC players had nothing do do with it.
 
even in the last time i agreed it was dodgy but its also stupid to dismiss the whole WC because there are no evidence and if Italy cheated his way to the WC players had nothing do do with it.

Renowned for sleeping at a brothel the night before a game, he marked the 1934 final by punching Czech rival Rudolf Krcil in the liver.

For Italy's equaliser, scored by Giovanni Ferrari, Meazza was accused of fouling Zamora, who took such heavy punishment in the match that he was unable to play in the replay the following day. Without Zamora - a man whom Meazza later said appeared to have "a pile of rocks in his goalmouth" - Italy progressed after a 1-0 win, with Meazza heading the winner from a corner.
In the semi-final, against Austria, Meazza created the only goal of the game, running towards goal before colliding with the 'keeper to allow Enrique Guaita a simple finish.
 
Not even remotely comparable and I linked articles from the last tournament.
Sorry but you are the one big upping Meazza. The onus is on YOU to prove that he was actually good and not just the beneficiary of illegal punches to the face of the goalkeeper.
If you weren't trying to big up Meazza so much I never would have posted my opinions here again. You act like its so obvious when everything I find supports me doubting Meaza credentials. Meazza himself was accused of cheating in multiple matches.

Fact is, you simply cannot *know* if Meazza was really as amazing as you say in that World Cup or if it was more hindsight that best player on the winning team naturally wins golden boot. unlike Desailly who can all judge for ourselves or the tragically unselected players like Roger Milla who IMO deserved a run out in this draft far more than Stabile ffs.. From what I have read from South American journalists, European journalists and speaking this week directly to an Italian I know who is actually a Meazza fan- even he admits that 34 was questionable and Meazza's credentials "should be taken with skepticism".

articles from newspaper are evidence?
Guy was a golden ball, lead his team to the WC and was heavily involved in all goals and its widely accepted him as a player had a great world cup. I have more evidence of him having a great WC then you have of corruption.
Of course i cant know if Meazza really was amazing but we cant about for every non footage player so either you remove them from draft or believe in what you read because this is a joke.
Have no comment for Milla comment....lets then only use players from post 80(reckon this is the border where football became serious given your bonner on Zico/Socrates).

@MJJ refs make mistake, they made big mistakes in every WC yet its only this one where we doubt players(LOL) because of that. If and when we play CL draft, shall we dismiss Ronaldo because most think Madrid cheated their way to the CLs and you can find dozen of articles that back that stories, and we even have the proof in that case if you want to believe in that charade.


My last post on this crappy topic, really cant be bothered anymore.
 
This has become a bit silly to be honest. I've argued before that the 1934 World Cup has been dodgy as feck and Italy certainly wasn't a deserved winner, but despite all the cheating it's also written that Meazza played some amazing football and was a true genius. Plenty of World Cup moments have a truely dodgy story behind, yet it rarely detracts from the individual brilliance of the standout players.

Fair enough to mention it once or twice, but don't make the whole game about it. You should have excluded pre-war worldcups if you didn't want the greats of those first few tournaments in the draft after all.
 
lost any desire for this so i can no problems
Please don't, we've already lost crappy because of some stupid business, it's not worth it. Don't think that this shouldn't be discussed though — it's an interesting topic, although you have to be reasonable, it's obvious that Meazza was a great player and there is a very high possibility of foul play in 1934, those points are not mutually exclusive
 
nvrmnd.gif
 
Please don't, we've already lost crappy because of some stupid business, it's not worth it.

i wont obviously, will finish what i started.

Don't think that this shouldn't be discussed though — it's an interesting topic, although you have to be reasonable, it's obvious that Meazza was a great player and there is a very high possibility of foul play in 1934, those points are not mutually exclusive

if you check all my posts in this thread and in the first game you will see that i did exactly that. If they cheated their way to the WC players had nothing to do with it so players performances stay the same no matter what happened. Did they maybe had it easier because of protection from refs? Sure, thats a possibility but you can make a case for someone in every WC/tournament that was ever played and in no tournaments other then this one do they doubt players that had luck with referees. I could even understand if that happen to someone like Stabile who done feck all apart from that WC but we are talking about one of the superstars of that era so its more then likely that he had a great tournament as everyone say he had.

Have zero problems with harms or arbitrium that dont like Meazza for his style of playing or role i gave him. I defended my decision and they can decide if they buy it or not but when you dismiss the whole WC because people say its dodgy or because football was played in a certain way in that era then im reaching the point where i cant be bothered.

@P-Nut0712 :lol:
 
:lol:
if you check all my posts in this thread and in the first game you will see that i did exactly that. If they cheated their way to the WC players had nothing to do with it so players performances stay the same no matter what happened.

The reason I keep pushing back is because you keep posting these statements that are demonstrably untrue. MJJ already linked plenty of quotes showing how the players DID have something to do with what happened. And then here is video of evidence of an Italian player cheating to get the goal! To be honest, you are keeping this topic going more than I am
 
:lol:

The reason I keep pushing back is because you keep posting these statements that are demonstrably untrue. MJJ already linked plenty of quotes showing how the players DID have something to do with what happened. And then here is video of evidence of an Italian player cheating to get the goal! To be honest, you are keeping this topic going as much as I am



if you watch older games then you know something like this happened very often, gk didnt have protection they have today and the game was more physical. In terms of cheating this is nothing compared to Maradona hand goal and xy other incidents but hey, nobody questions those players....
 


7:00

this is 20 years later, i guess Mussolini was a closet Villa fan and 20 years after WC he cheated his way to the FA Cup as well.....you fail to understand that football was played differently back then, great players adopt and win how they are allowed to win. Back in the day that was by fighting, today is by watching tape after tape of Meryl Streep but the point stands, you adapt to the rules you are given. Mazzola himself was injured and played in the final injured so that shows you how he was on the other end of the stick as well.