WC All Stars Chain Draft QF- 2mufc0 vs Sjor Bepo

With players at respective WC peaks, who will win this match?


  • Total voters
    31
  • Poll closed .

Edgar Allan Pillow

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TEAM 2MUFCO


World Cup player profiles

GK: Gigi Buffon
: Italy's greatest goalkeeper won the world cup in 2006, in the all star team and winner of the golden glove, came second place in the Ballon d'or on the back his WC performance.
RB: Berti Vogts: World cup winning right back for Germany in 1974 and selected in the all star team, integral part in a team that stopped the great Dutch team of the 70's was instrumental in limiting Cruyff in the final
RCB: Jose Santamaria: One of the greatest defenders of all time, represented both Uruguay and Spain, i will be using his 1954 world cup where he was selected in the all star team, helping Uruguay reach the semi-finals losing to the great Hungarian team of the 50's.
LCB: Marcel Desailly: World cup winner in 1998 with France, and the best center back in that tournament, one of the most important parts of the French defence which was so difficult to break down.
LB: Silvio Marzolini: Argentina's greatest LB, will be using his 1966 version where he was selected in the all star team where Argentina reached the QF.
CM: Paul Breitner: One of the few players who have scored in two world cup finals. Will be using his 1982 version where he played in midfield and helped Germany reach the final which he scored in.
CM: Lothar Matthaus: Key player in Germany's 1990 win, selected in the team of the tournament and won the silver ball. Only lost out to the golden ball because of Schillaci's goal scoring exploits, but in terms of influence he was the best player of that world cup.
LAM: Teofilo Cubillas: Peru's best ever player, will be using his 1970 version where he took the tournament by storm finishing third in the scoring charts with 5 goals and winning the best young player award. Helped Peru to the QF scoring key goals, where they lost to the winners Brazil. Included in the team of the tournament.
RW: Garrincha: Put in one of the greatest individual world cup performances in 1962 winning the tournament and the golden ball and joint top scorer.
LW: Hristo Stoichkov: Winner of the golden boot in 1994 with 6 goals and winner of the Bronze ball helping Bulgaria finish 4th. Included in the team of the tournament.
CF: Vava: Winner of back to back world cups and scorer in two finals. I will be using his 1958 version where he scored 5 goals with 2 in the final.

Style of play/tactics


I will be playing a high tempo, physical and direct style which suits the powerful team lineup.

The back four all have a strong world cup pedigree with two winners and all 4 selected in the team of the tournament. Desailly and Santamaria is one of the toughest partnerships you could put together and i would back this partnership to keep the best strikers quiet. Vogts is the more conservative full back on the other side is the more balanced Marzolini. The last line of defence is Buffon who put in one of the best world cup goal keeping performances of all time in 06, he's worth a few saved goals.

In midfield Breitner will be the deepest midfielder dictating the tempo and with his passing range able to setup quick counters, he will also help screen the defense. Next to him is Matthaus who put in one of the greatest B2B performances in world cup history, the complete all round midfielder he will be the heartbeat of the team going forward and also doing the defensive work required. Infront of them will be Cubillas able to come deep and collect the ball and run at the opposition and also get into scoring positions, he is also in the perfect position to use his vision to setup chances for the forwards.

Garrincha will be the main man in my attack and we will look to get the ball to him as much as possible, no matter how good Sjor's defenders are they will not be able to fully stop on form Garrincha, he WILL create chances for himself and his team mates and has an established partnership with Vava. Stoichkov is our outlet on the left side, a world cup legend and able to score and create.

Thoughts on the game

Sjor has built an exceptional team with one hell of a defensive unit but i think we have the upper hand in the following areas:

  • I have the superior midfield both Matthaus and Breitner not only in world cup form but overall are superior players to Coluna and Tigana. Adding Cubillas who will contribute in midfield i am set to dominate the midfield.
  • Garrincha, Sjor doesn't have anybody in his team who performed to the level he did in 62.
  • Garrincha & Vava is a proven world cup winning partnership.
  • Meazza's record in the world cups are questionable because of the corruption in the 34 & 38 world cups. This isn't a personal attack or an attack on his abilities , but since we are in a WC draft this has to be taken into consideration and any awards he received in those tournaments have a question mark over them.
  • His main threats in attack are central with Rivaldo, R9 and Meazza, With Breitner, Matthaus, Desailly, Santamaria and Vogts the team is more than capable of suffocating those central areas and also having the defensive abilities to sniff out threats. Whilst his wing backs can provide width, Desailly and Santamaria will nullify his attackers in the air. Also both my full backs are defensively solid.

TEAM SJOR BEPO


Formation: Staggered 3-4-3


Tactical Overview
: The addition of Ruud Krol adds a great sense of variability to the team. Throughout the drafting process, the ultimate plan was to build a very robust and perhaps equally importantly, very proactive and flexible, defense - to form the real basis of the setup. Because Krol was a brilliantly multi-faceted defender in '74 in the Oranje's overall multi-faceted team, he grants Baresi the freedom to operate like a proper two-way sweeper/libero - impacting the game in a myriad ways, and for the defense to operate in a mixed zone-man marking setup considering the wealth of extreme defensive nous on show. And the forward forays of Krol, and to a greater degree, Cafú, should provide a cutting edge in attack - in tandem with the build-up prowess of Baresi. Maldini and Gentile bring covering and marking expertise to the fold. Ahead of them, Ardiles and Tigana are placed in fairly disciplined and functional roles, forming a back-of-two - Ardiles as a bit of a holder, and Tigana as the box-to-box - which aligns perfectly with their remit in 1978 and 1986, respectively. Then you have the duo of Meazza and Ronaldo in attack behind the inaugural World Cup's top scorer, Stábile. I think both Meazza and Ronaldo should thrive in the sort of free roles they have - not only wreck havoc on the defense themselves from central and slightly wider regions, but drag any potential markers around to create cracks for Stábile to exploit with his killer production levels.

Manuel Neuer

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World Cup
- 2014
Team Accomplishment - Winners
Individual Accomplishment - Golden Glove and Team of the Tournament
Summary - Neuer's sweeper-keeper playing style distinguished him from other starting goalkeepers in the tournament - aside from his great skill set as a shot stopper. After keeping clean sheets in group matches against Portugal and the united States, Neuer recorded his third clean sheet of the World Cup in the 1–0 QF defeat of France. This was his 22nd clean sheet overall in his 50th appearance for die Nationalmannschaft. In the SF, Neuer conceded a late goal as his team routed hosts Brazil 7-1. In the Final against Argentina, Neuer was not heavily tested but he nonetheless commanded his penalty area well. Germany ultimately defeated Argentina 1–0 thanks to a Mario Götze goal in extra time. Neuer won the Golden Glove award for the tournament's best goalkeeper.
Tactical Role - Sweeper keeper. He is by no means the first one to play it as there are the likes of Yashin and Grosics that played a similar role in World Cups, but he really took the role on another level- setting a new standard for the position in 2014.


Franco Baresi

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World Cup -
1990
Team Accomplishment - Bronze
Individual Accomplishment - Team of the Tournament
Summary - Franco Baresi was at the peak of his powers in the tournament as regards his defensive attributes and ability to read the game - leading what is considered by many the greatest defense of all time, and also contributed massively in possession where he was crucial in timely transitions from defense to attack via his great passing range, vision and intelligent decision making. All in all, they kept five consecutive clean sheets, only conceding two goals, and going unbeaten for a World Cup record of 518 minutes, until they were beaten by an Argentinian equalizer in the semi-final. A travesty that he didn't win the tournament because his dominant individual performance, and in fact the performance of that entire defense merited that, but unfortunately for him that was a period where the Azzurri lacked quality in other areas, specially in midfield - so his heroics were in vain.
Tactical Role - Playing in a sweeper role, Baresi has the freedom to bomb up with Maldini in a covering role and Gentile in a man-marking/covering role - in addition to Neuer as a sweeper keeper - who can build possession even when Baresi advances. Here, can be very methodical and judicious, and won't need to take as many risks as he did in '90 as a compensatory feature, considering the quality around him and players that are able to transition the play from more offensive positions - including the likes of Zagallo, Cafu, Coluna, Tigana in more advanced positions.


Claudio Gentile


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World Cup - 1982
Team Accomplishment - Winners
Individual Accomplishment - Team of the Tournament
Summary - The Master of the Dark Arts is arguably the greatest marker in World Cup history and well as one of the hardest players of the tournament. He gained notoriety for his relentless man-marking of Diego Maradona in a second-round match against Argentina at the 1982 World Cup: where he fouled the Argentine star 11 times in the first half and famously quipped, "Football is not for ballerinas!" Italy ended up defeating the defending champions Argentina, and scored 10 goals in their final four games in the 1982 World Cup — dispatching the favourites, the holders and the reigning European champions. Gentile’s ability to stifle and dominate the opposition had allowed the rest of the Italian team to grow in confidence and play with a freedom rarely seen by the Azzurri.
Tactical Role - Not marking anyone specific this team so he will be in a more balanced role then in the last game although we expect to focus mostly on Stoichkov. The reason for a more balanced act this time is to allow Baresi the freedom to support the midfield when needed and to juggle between 2 roles as only he could do.


Paolo Maldini

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World Cup -
1994
Team Accomplishment - Silver
Individual Accomplishment - Team of the Tournament
Summary - Maldini played in all seven of Italy's matches, and deputised for the injured Franco Baresi in the matches against Mexico, Nigeria, Spain and Bulgaria, keeping a clean sheet in the group match against Norway. Maldini led the Italian defence to the final, playing both as a centre-back and as a full-back, due to the absences of his Milan and Italy defensive teammates Baresi, due to injury, Mauro Tassotti, due to suspension after the quarter-finals, and Alessandro Costacurta, who was suspended for the final. Maldini helped Italy keep a clean sheet in the final against favourites Brazil as the team eventually lost on penalties.
Tactical Role - While this is Baresi's defense and he is the best defender in there - which by the way, says a lot considering Paolo immaculate World Cup credentials - Maldini is the player that makes this defense truly special in tandem with Baresi and Gentile. Perfect fit for Zagallo in that you'd have no one else to cover the space over Maldini, and perfect partner for Baresi for obvious reasons, perfect fit for a back 3 as they originally form. And if Zagallo goes up or for some reason cannot recover in time, the rest can form a back 4 with Maldini as leftback. If Baresi ventures up or Gentile gets drawn out of position they can form a back 4 with him at centerback and even if the team gets caught on the counter which is pretty much impossible task considering the staff you cant hardly pick a better fit to defend the open pitch on the counter.


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World Cup -
2002
Team Accomplishment - Winners
Summary - For some reason my first thought when I think about the World Cup is Cafú — played in 4 (3 times in the final!) different ones and this is where he properly won one, lead his team as a captain to the WC glory. Main strengths of that team were the "3 Rs" ip front and a very good defence lead by their captain. Conceded only 4 goals in the whole tournament of which 2 came in a meaningless third game in the group. They also conceded in the first game of the tournament and against England in QF, other games they kept a clean sheet.
Tactical Role - The same role he had on that tournament, for most time would have the freedom to bomb up and down as he wants but on the rare occasion he will have to drop back to form a back 4 - is tactically astute and intelligent enough to pull it of without to much effort.



Ruud Krol

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World Cup -
1974
Team Accomplishment - Silver
Individual Accomplishment - Team of the Tournament
Summary - Netherlands 1974 are quite comfortably the best team that didn't won the World Cup, and Krol was a major piece of the puzzle contributing on both ends of the pitch. They blew up everyone en route to the final - whilst delivering some of the greatest performances in the history of the tournament - led by Cruyff and Krol and Neeskens. Even while moving around like carousel, they conceded only 1 goal in the group stages - with Krol being the leader in defense. Second group stages they exuded even more in control: wining against East Germany, Argentina and Brazil without conceding a goal, though in the final, they faced a stumbling block in the shape of Beckenbauer and Müller's West Germany on home turf.
Tactical Role - As every player in that 74' team, Krol was everywhere. Bombing non stop via that left wing, then dropping into defense, or assisting the midfield. We expect the same here, faces a great opponent in Garrincha, but with Maldini alongside him, you couldn't ask for a better containment zone, and he should get plenty of oppurtunities to contribute in attack as well.


Osvaldo Ardiles

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World Cup -
1978
Team Accomplishment - Winners
Summary - Slightly overshadowed by the individual performances of Passarella and Kempes considering he perfected a highly efficient and discrete style, but Ardiles was brilliant in that tournament for the Albiceleste. Slightly built but fearless both on and of the ball, and excellent in terms of distribution. From a defensive standpoint, he was everywhere: very disciplined as regards his positioning, pressured the opposition when needed, strong in the tackle, and on the ball he was the glue wrt. ball retention and bringing his team-mates into the game. The type of player that makes other better with his calmness on the ball and selflessness in the play as a consummate team player and strategist.

Tactical Role - Stay disciplined defensive wise and keep it simple in an offensive sense to ensure timely and quick transition towards Meazza and O Fenômeno.


Jean Tigana

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World Cup -
1986
Team Accomplishment - Bronze
Individual Accomplishment - Team of the Tournament
Summary - A perfect amalgam of technique and stamina, Tigana was in sumptuous form in the 1986 World Cup - by now fully established as the engine of the French national team with his heroics in 1984, and rated as one of the best performers of the tournament as a heavy duty and tactically advanced central midfielder:
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Tactical Role
- Definition of a box-to-box midfielder. Immense in defensive terms and very good on the ball, he should be in his elements with the disciplined Ardiles alongside him. Can easily run the game for you if you allow him to or if you need it - but had the heart of a lion and could run all day in trademark 3-Lungs style. Funnily enough his only international goal came at this tournament - and what a goal it was! So this is probably the only draft where you can count on him as a viable goal threat.


Giuseppe Meazza

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World Cup -
1934
Team Accomplishment - Winners
Individual Accomplishment - Golden Ball and Team of the Tournament
Summary - Meazza appeared in every game for the Azzurri and he started that run with scoring the final goal in their World Cup opener. Towards the business end of the competition, he faced the Wunderteam with Josef Bican of Rapid Vienna and Mathias Sindelar of FK Austria, two of the world's finest players. Austria was widely considered the strongest continental side and had already beaten the Italians 4–2 in Turin only four months earlier. But in treacherous conditions, and combating fatigue, Meazza was an inspiration: out-played an Austrian forward, dribbled past him, then collided into the grounded Austrian goalkeeper, Peter Platzer, who had pounced on the ball to quell the attack. The ball came loose, hit the post and bounced to Guaita, to score the only goal of the match. In the final Italy suffered badly after Meazza was injured in a tackle. He soldiered on though. After ninety minutes the two teams were 1–1. Italy, though, was in far more trouble as the game went into extra time, until Meazza became the inspirer again - left alone on the wing to drift in and out of the match, he recovered sufficiently enough to send a slicing pass to Guaita that unlocked the Czech defense, and then went about setting a series of blocks to free up his strikers for the winner five minutes into the extra period. Talismanic!
Tactical Role - Free role attacker. Meazza was a superb dribbler who despite his speed, never had a single brylcreemed hair out of place, and although he was not tall, was remarkably good in the air. Throughout the tournament, he created many chances for his teammates, and, his bending goals "a foglia morta", the "dead leaf technique", in particular from free-kicks, were also feared by goalkeepers. As a playmaker, he was a brilliant passer, two-footed, had remarkable field vision, and was noted for his balance and agility on the ball, as well as his control, turns and spins. The complete package for the position in this format.


Ronaldo

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World Cup -
1998
Team Accomplishment - Silver
Individual Accomplishment - Golden Ball and Team of the Tournament
Summary - At peak of his powers - one of the most frightening players in World Cup history - especially on counter-attacks where he unleashed the brunt of his athleticism, power and dazzling skill set - scoring 4 goals and setting up 3 others. His individual performances really deserved the Gold medal and a Jules Rimet trophy, but it wasn't meant to be....well, at least he won the Golden Ball after suffering a convulsive fit on the eve of the match. O Fenômeno was everywhere in this edition, doing a bit of everything in attack - dropping deep and then running at the opposition lines, burst through supposedly ironclad defenses through the middle, and so forth - as a sort of tactically free forward who roamed right, left and center. One man attack at times where he didn't really need any support from teammates - would kill teams either individually, or by combining with others
Tactical Role - Free role behind Stábile: who will maintain a high offensive line. Should create a lot of room for Ronaldo to run into - at full pelt.


Guillermo Stábile

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World Cup -
1930
Team Accomplishment - Silver
Individual Accomplishment - Golden Boot, Silver Ball and Team of the Tournament,
Summary - Made his debut for the national team at the age of 25, in his team's second match in the first ever World Cup held in Uruguay - game finished 6–3 to Argentina, with Stábile scoring a hat-trick on his debut. The final game of the group stages saw Argentina facing South American rivals Chile. They won the game 3–1 with Stábile scoring twice, meaning that Argentina had qualified for the SF. The South Americans breezed through, with a 6–1 victory; Stábile added two more goals to his account and securing Argentina a place in the finals. On 30 July 1930, the first ever World Cup final took place, between Argentina and Uruguay. At half time Argentina led 2–1, Stábile having scored the second goal. However, they went on to lose 4–2. Despite that, Stábile etched his name as one of the deadliest strikers in World Cup history - finishing the tournament with 8 goals in 4 games for a GPG of 2.0!
Tactical Role - Center forward. fondly known as the ‘Infiltrator’ for his goal-scoring ability and gives his frightening form through the tournament for La Albiceleste, he's ideally suited to a finisher role - ahead of Meazza and Ronaldo. The first ever Golden Boot winner should get plenty of chances to threaten the opposition defense with the offensive threat behind him.
 
I liked the two pronged attack of Rivaldo-Meazza from either direction much more than the pure number 10 version of Meazza here.

Too much creative responsibility on someone who was an hybrid of an inside forward and a winger especially when he is up against those midfielders.
 
Tactical Role - While this is Baresi's defense and he is the best defender in there - which by the way, says a lot considering Paolo immaculate World Cup credentials - Maldini is the player that makes this defense truly special in tandem with Baresi and Gentile. Perfect fit for Zagallo in that you'd have no one else to cover the space over Maldini, and perfect partner for Baresi for obvious reasons, perfect fit for a back 3 as they originally form. And if Zagallo goes up or for some reason cannot recover in time, the rest can form a back 4 with Maldini as leftback. If Baresi ventures up or Gentile gets drawn out of position they can form a back 4 with him at centerback and even if the team gets caught on the counter which is pretty much impossible task considering the staff you cant hardly pick a better fit to defend the open pitch on the counter.

Might want to edit this.
 
Meazza's record in the world cups are questionable because of the corruption in the 34 & 38 world cups. This isn't a personal attack or an attack on his abilities , but since we are in a WC draft this has to be taken into consideration and any awards he received in those tournaments have a question mark over them.

Is arbitrium your AM? :lol:
 
I liked the two pronged attack of Rivaldo-Meazza from either direction much more than the pure number 10 version of Meazza here.

Too much creative responsibility on someone who was an hybrid of an inside forward and a winger especially when he is up against those midfielders.

its just aesthetics tbf, both Ronaldo and Meazza will have a free role and if anything the burden is lighter in this team as Fenomeno from 98' offers much more to the all-round game, doesnt lack anything in creative department behind Rivaldo 02' who was capable of magic was slightly post his peak and was more of an inside forward rather then a creative player. Not to mention individual quality of Fenomeno who can create something out of nothing without any help.

PS: Cheers for the Maldini part, tactical role stays the same but i forgot to change the name :)
 
I think that both sides have a player who isn't used to their full potential. Breitner deserve a free, Matthäus-esque role to roam around, to use him as a deepest of three midfielders is a bit of a waste. And I'm not a fan of Meazza as a pure #10, I think in this formation he is better used as a free-roaming second striker — like Ronaldo (but probably on the right).
 
@2mufc0 good luck mate :)

  • I have the superior midfield both Matthaus and Breitner not only in world cup form but overall are superior players to Coluna and Tigana. Adding Cubillas who will contribute in midfield i am set to dominate the midfield.
  • Garrincha, Sjor doesn't have anybody in his team who performed to the level he did in 62.
  • Garrincha & Vava is a proven world cup winning partnership.
  • Meazza's record in the world cups are questionable because of the corruption in the 34 & 38 world cups. This isn't a personal attack or an attack on his abilities , but since we are in a WC draft this has to be taken into consideration and any awards he received in those tournaments have a question mark over them.
  • His main threats in attack are central with Rivaldo, R9 and Meazza, With Breitner, Matthaus, Desailly, Santamaria and Vogts the team is more than capable of suffocating those central areas and also having the defensive abilities to sniff out threats. Whilst his wing backs can provide width, Desailly and Santamaria will nullify his attackers in the air. Also both my full backs are defensively solid.

1. While your midfield really is better individually im not sure if its better as a whole, it probably is but not as much as you would first think when you see the names. Matthaus is fantastic and he will be brilliant no questions asked but he has a lot of less protection in this team then he had in 90' so his impact will be smaller. In 90' he had 2 midfielders who although were offensive players they really worked for him(not to mention 2 hardowking strikers as well) and he had a back 3 behind him, everything was organized and set for him to shine, that isnt the case here.
2. Baresi and Ronaldo?
3. Baresi and Maldini, they didnt win it but they are comfortably the best partnership on the pitch.
4. What can be in question is Italy winning the WC, what cant be questioned is Meazza¨performances on the tournament, players had feck all with anything that was MAYBE arranged off the pitch.
5. You even got the team wrong so another points for me :D
 
I think that both sides have a player who isn't used to their full potential. Breitner deserve a free, Matthäus-esque role to roam around, to use him as a deepest of three midfielders is a bit of a waste. And I'm not a fan of Meazza as a pure #10, I think in this formation he is better used as a free-roaming second striker — like Ronaldo (but probably on the right).

as i said in post above, its really just a formation thing as i couldnt be bothered with stupid comments how Fenomeno is off his position if i placed him just instead of Rivaldo. Formations are pretty much irrelevant, its just to show positions in general what is important are roles players have and how the team intends to play and both Meazza(from what i can read at least) and Fenomeno will be in their element, both having a lot of freedom and most importantly i think opponents personnel suits them to the tee as Breitner was never a holding midfielder from what i know about him and certainly wasnt a holding midfielder in that WC. Can he play there paired with Matthaus? He probably can but that will open up the space for Fenomeno and Meazza and they will have a lot more opportunity to run face to face against defenders and when you face Fenomeno thats the last thing you want.
 
its just aesthetics tbf, both Ronaldo and Meazza will have a free role and if anything the burden is lighter in this team as Fenomeno from 98' offers much more to the all-round game, doesnt lack anything in creative department behind Rivaldo 02' who was capable of magic was slightly post his peak and was more of an inside forward rather then a creative player. Not to mention individual quality of Fenomeno who can create something out of nothing without any help.

I don't think you would want your No #10 to be an absolute free roaming player in this formation. It should be the second striker who could be free roaming.
Meazza has to be the link between the MF and attack and you'd want your No.10 to be devastating from the centre ripping the opposition apart centrally.

I agree on Ronaldo being capable of winning the game on his own though and I'd like to hear more from @2mufc0 on how he plans to handle him.
Him being top notch creating chances wise in 1998 does help, but with a proper Number 10 behind, that would have been some attack.
 
I don't think you would want your No #10 to be an absolute free roaming person in this formation. It should be the second striker who could be free roaming.
Meazza has to be the link between the MF and attack and you'd want your No.10 to be devastating from the centre ripping the opposition apart centrally.

I agree on Ronaldo being capable of winning the game on his own though and I'd like to hear more from @2mufc0 on how he plans to handle him.
Him being top notch creating chances wise in 1998 does help, but with a proper Number 10 behind, that would have been some attack.

as i said to harms, formation is irrelevant. Both Meazza and Fenomeno have the full freedom, lets say like Ronaldinho in Rivaldo in 02'(just an example, i dont intend to play like that). So you can easily create a formation like i had in previous game, Meazza slightly to the right and Fenomeno slightly to the left. What is important is their individual roles and Meazza was very much like a number 10, a lot of older inside forwards were as that position had pretty much nothing in common with a modern inside forward.
 
@2mufc0 good luck mate :)

  • I have the superior midfield both Matthaus and Breitner not only in world cup form but overall are superior players to Coluna and Tigana. Adding Cubillas who will contribute in midfield i am set to dominate the midfield.
  • Garrincha, Sjor doesn't have anybody in his team who performed to the level he did in 62.
  • Garrincha & Vava is a proven world cup winning partnership.
  • Meazza's record in the world cups are questionable because of the corruption in the 34 & 38 world cups. This isn't a personal attack or an attack on his abilities , but since we are in a WC draft this has to be taken into consideration and any awards he received in those tournaments have a question mark over them.
  • His main threats in attack are central with Rivaldo, R9 and Meazza, With Breitner, Matthaus, Desailly, Santamaria and Vogts the team is more than capable of suffocating those central areas and also having the defensive abilities to sniff out threats. Whilst his wing backs can provide width, Desailly and Santamaria will nullify his attackers in the air. Also both my full backs are defensively solid.

1. While your midfield really is better individually im not sure if its better as a whole, it probably is but not as much as you would first think when you see the names. Matthaus is fantastic and he will be brilliant no questions asked but he has a lot of less protection in this team then he had in 90' so his impact will be smaller. In 90' he had 2 midfielders who although were offensive players they really worked for him(not to mention 2 hardowking strikers as well) and he had a back 3 behind him, everything was organized and set for him to shine, that isnt the case here.
2. Baresi and Ronaldo?
3. Baresi and Maldini, they didnt win it but they are comfortably the best partnership on the pitch.
4. What can be in question is Italy winning the WC, what cant be questioned is Meazza¨performances on the tournament, players had feck all with anything that was MAYBE arranged off the pitch.
5. You even got the team wrong so another points for me :D
Cheers Sjor, good luck to you too mate.

1. Breitner provides a lot of screening for him and he also has Vogts on that side so plenty of defensive cover when he goes on his runs. It's difficult to get a 100% tactical match, the same could be said for Baresi who didn't play as a libero in a back 5 in any of his world cups. If anything imo he's a much better player in a back 4.

2. Winning the tournament puts players on another level so imo Baresi and Ronaldo 98 although rank very high not in the upper echelons of Maradona 86, Pele 70 or Garrincha 62.

3. Fair point but like you pointed out both couldn't win it. Baresi didn't even play most of the games in 94 either.

4. Like I said not the players fault, but it does help when refs and also reports of opposition player paid off.

5. :D points still stand, v. Centrally orientated atttack.
 
I don't think you would want your No #10 to be an absolute free roaming player in this formation. It should be the second striker who could be free roaming.
Meazza has to be the link between the MF and attack and you'd want your No.10 to be devastating from the centre ripping the opposition apart centrally.

I agree on Ronaldo being capable of winning the game on his own though and I'd like to hear more from @2mufc0 on how he plans to handle him.
Him being top notch creating chances wise in 1998 does help, but with a proper Number 10 behind, that would have been some attack.
Whilst I always acknowledge R9 is always a threat he does seem to get given superhuman powers on this forum. He won't get much space at all in the central areas, Lothar was known as Maradona's toughest opponent so he shiuld be able to help out when he drops deep, Breitner is no mug defensively either. Then you have the last line of defence with Desailly, if you had to chose any defender over time to go against R9 he would be right up there with his skillet.

Imo in this world cup context Garrincha is a bigger threat, but little talk of him.
 
I think that both sides have a player who isn't used to their full potential. Breitner deserve a free, Matthäus-esque role to roam around, to use him as a deepest of three midfielders is a bit of a waste. And I'm not a fan of Meazza as a pure #10, I think in this formation he is better used as a free-roaming second striker — like Ronaldo (but probably on the right).
I get what you are saying. But I watched the Germany vs France semi (82) the other day and I would say he would be asked to do a similar job here, in that game he spent a lot of time around the centre circle when Germany had the ball and bursting forward now and then.

He's not playing a traditional Pirlo or Busquets role, he is allowed to burst forward when opportunity arises but his default position is the deepest of the 3.
 
Cheers Sjor, good luck to you too mate.

1. Breitner provides a lot of screening for him and he also has Vogts on that side so plenty of defensive cover when he goes on his runs. It's difficult to get a 100% tactical match, the same could be said for Baresi who didn't play as a libero in a back 5 in any of his world cups. If anything imo he's a much better player in a back 4.

2. Winning the tournament puts players on another level so imo Baresi and Ronaldo 98 although tank very high not in the upper echelons of Maradona 86, Pele 70 or Garrincha 62.

3. Fair point but like you pointed out both couldn't win it. Baresi didn't even play most of the games in 94 either.

4. Like I said not the players fault, but it does help when refs and also reports of opposition player paid off.

5. :D points still stand, v. Centrally orientated atttack.

1. He does and thats why i can see him having a decent partnership with Matthaus but when you have Meazza and Fenomeno(specially him) lurking and vulturing that area to receive the ball and attack you 1v1 its a bit of a problem. Baresi played as a libero in 1990....


2. Yes it does but individual performances stay the same. Cruyff is most likely just behind Pele and Maradona in terms of individual performances yet how many great players did won the damn thing?

3. We cant use same tournaments so i dont understand your point.

4. The 62-year-old was laughing as he added: "There was a little trickery. We did not spend six years organising the World Cup to not do some little shenanigans. Do you think other World Cup hosts did not?" Michele Platini Shall we dismiss every performance from the french players on that tournament? Shall we dismiss Maradona performances because refs did the biggest feck up in WC history?

5. Its not, both wingbacks offer a lot of width + Meaza and Fenomeno will drift wide in times

Regarding Garrincha, i cant think of better players to take care of him then Krol and Maldini. While Fenomeno is against a team without a proper DM attacking Santamaria who has a shaky WC resume. You can argue it was a high scoring WC but in this game he cant afford that.
 
more on Meazza playing style in general:

Luigi Veronelli said:
I also saw Pele playing. He did not achieve Meazza's elegant style of playing. One day, at the Arena, I witnessed him doing something astonishing: he stopped the ball with a bicycle kick, elevating himself two meters from the ground. Then he landed with the ball glued at his foot, dribbled over an astonished defender, and then went on scoring a goal with one of his hallmark shots, sardonic and accurate to the millimeter.

Meazza began his career as an all out striker, but showed his skill and ability by also becoming an accomplished offensive midfielder, playing for more than half of his career as a creative inside forward. He was a great leader with excellent shooting and intoxicating dribbling skills, an eye for the final pass and, despite his average height, an exceptional heading ability.

Meazza was the first Italian football player who became famous worldwide, and was the first player with personal sponsors. Unlike his more reserved friend, international team-mate, and club-rival Silvio Piola, a player with whom Meazza was often compared, he was known for having a much more flamboyant character both on and off the pitch. He loved his cabriolet, champagne and women and was the only player on the national team that was allowed to smoke. Meazza was famous for humiliating the best defenders of the era and for sleeping at a brothel the night before a match. With his plush touch on the ball, he would cause panic in the robust defenders from an era where two footed tackles from behind were often waved on. Not known for having a particularly high work-rate, sometimes he would not get out of bed until his teammates were already finished training. He also loved the Tango and used this proficiency to make him unpredictable on the field and could score goals at fox-trot tempo. He was a superb dribbler who despite his speed, never had a single brylcreemed hair out of place, and although he was not tall, was remarkably good in the air. Meazza created many chances for his teammates and scored goals as well. His bending goals "a foglia morta", the "dead leaf technique", in particular from free-kicks, were also feared by goalkeepers. As an offensive playmaker, he was a brilliant passer, two-footed, had remarkable field vision, and was noted for his balance and agility on the ball, as well as his control, turns and spins.

His trademark goals were ones where he would collect the ball at the half-line, dribble through several opponents with a series of twinkle-toed shuffles, and turns, until arriving in front of the goal, where he would stop and invite the goalkeeper to attack him like a matador, before faking a shot, then dribbling past the beaten goalkeeper to slot home easily. In away games, the defenders would often foul and hack him to avoid being humiliated. "Gol alla Meazza" and "finte alla Meazza" have since become popular sayings for Italian football fans to describe a truly inspiring goal off the dribble or a series of jukes. His goals "ad invito", where he would invite the goalkeeper out before dribbling around him is yet another popular saying. Meazza once said, "There is nothing worse than having a penalty kick saved by a keeper who didn't understand the fake."

Vittorio Pozzo, the mastermind coach behind both Italian World Cup victories, wrote of him: "He was a born forward. He saw the game, understood the situation, distributed the ball carefully and made the team offense operate. Having him on the team was like starting the game 1–0 up."

Gianni Brera called him "Il Folber", and his style of play the "fasso-tuto-mi" because he considered him the complete central midfielder and a nimble acrobat. "He was only Italian that stood out amongst the sensational Brazilians and Argentines" said Brera.

Peppino Prisco, who became vice-president of Internazionale in 1963 and won every trophy possible with the club considered him the best of all time and said, "Meazza was great, unbeatable, even if he would occasionally run into a frightful crisis, caused by his intense sexual activity and his passion for the game. When he took over on the field, he did things that left the mouth ajar."

Bruno Acari IV, who played with Meazza at AC Milan and later coached, once said that "Peppino never wanted to hear about tactics. He was a simple person who became a king when he entered the goal box, with a technical ability that was comparable to Pele."
 
Voted for Sjor. That defense is pretty much flawless and I feel you'd need a flawless attack to get anything from the game.

Garrincha, sure he will get the better a few times, but Vavá and Stoichkov are a level or 2 below what is needed to break that down I feel.
 
Voted for Sjor. That defense is pretty much flawless and I feel you'd need a flawless attack to get anything from the game.

Garrincha, sure he will get the better a few times, but Vavá and Stoichkov are a level or 2 below what is needed to break that down I feel.
Personally I feel its overkill, I have one central striker is there really a need for 3 centre backs? It throws the team off balance esp with the centrally orientated attackers which will clash with each other.

And to be honest mate on purely world cup form Vava and Stoichkov are some of the top attackers in the draft, Stoichkov bronze ball and golden boot in 94 and Vava the ultimate big game player with 3 goals in 2 finals and 10 goals in world cups. When you look at the finer details and not face value there isn't much in it.

And the game isn't just based on defence I also have the superior midfield.
 
Personally I feel its overkill, I have one central striker is there really a need for 3 centre backs? It throws the team off balance esp with the centrally orientated attackers which will clash with each other.

And to be honest mate on purely world cup form Vava and Stoichkov are some of the top attackers in the draft, Stoichkov bronze ball and golden boot in 94 and Vava the ultimate big game player with 3 goals in 2 finals and 10 goals in world cups. When you look at the finer details and not face value there isn't much in it.

And the game isn't just based on defence I also have the superior midfield.

how is a overkill? Because i have to much quality there? You have one central striker, left forward that made a career of making final third runs and you have Garrincha on the right, how exactly is me having 3 defenders an overkill? Because i have that third defender your best player wont have much joy as he is against Krol and Maldini who is supposedly an overkill. Stoichkov can be handled by the combination of Cafu and Gentile as Cafu doesnt have to bother at all about Marzolini as he was a defensive fullback. Vava wont get a sniff against that defence and having robust and perhaps equally importantly, very proactive and flexible, defense Baresi will be allowed to help out the midfield when needed.

My plan is to sit deep, defend and counter and im 100% sure i would score more then you in that scenario. Even if you dont want the role of a dominant team you will have to take it because of the player profiles you have on the pitch and with very little protection in midfield(no proper DM/holding player) i can see Fenomeno having a great time on the counter. Ardiles, Tigana, Cafu, Krol, Meazza, Fenomeno and even Baresi judging by the WC 90 are all suited perfectly to the quick transition so im confident im going to land some punches on the counter while in the same time im more then confident on the other end of the pitch.

Stoichkov is more then good enough but Vava isnt that good, specially when you consider the level(not names) of opponents.
 
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credit to @Invictus who made this for me. You could add 10+ other combinations and variations that are depending on other players on the pitch but it shows a fluid 2 behind Stabile, similar how Brazil played in 02' where they had Ronaldo high up responsible for just goals and you had Rivaldo and Ronaldinho as a fluid two behind as they would move all over that final third.
 
how is a overkill? Because i have to much quality there? You have one central striker, left forward that made a career of making final third runs and you have Garrincha on the right, how exactly is me having 3 defenders an overkill? Because i have that third defender your best player wont have much joy as he is against Krol and Maldini who is supposedly an overkill. Stoichkov can be handled by the combination of Cafu and Gentile as Cafu doesnt have to bother at all about Marzolini as he was a defensive fullback. Vava wont get a sniff against that defence and having robust and perhaps equally importantly, very proactive and flexible, defense Baresi will be allowed to help out the midfield when needed.

My plan is to sit deep, defend and counter and im 100% sure i would score more then you in that scenario. Even if you dont want the role of a dominant team you will have to take it because of the player profiles you have on the pitch and with very little protection in midfield(no proper DM/holding player) i can see Fenomeno having a great time on the counter. Ardiles, Tigana, Cafu, Krol, Meazza, Fenomeno and even Baresi judging by the WC 90 are all suited perfectly to the quick transition so im confident im going to land some punches on the counter while in the same time im more then confident on the other end of the pitch.

Stoichkov is more then good enough but Vava isnt that good, specially when you consider the level(not names) of opponents.
It’s overkill because it’s 3 vs 1, simple as that, never questioned the quality of them so don’t know why you went on that rant. All of my players have exceptional work rate, I don’t see us getting caught often on the counter. Ronaldo threat has already been dealt with above.

And if going purely by WC record Vava achieved enough to be at this level, unlike 3 of the 5 of your defenders he got the job done in the finals he played in.
 
What makes this team special is not just the quality of that back 5 but the fluidity and flexibility. When ever someone loses position or gets caught up up the pitch you have someone that will cover for him on a very high level.
If Cafu or Krol bomb up Gentile and Maldini are perfectly capable of going out wide to form a back 4, if Baresi or either of the CB bomb up or get caught you have Krol and Cafu dropping into a back 4 with a GOAT partnership at CB.
 
It’s overkill because it’s 3 vs 1, simple as that, never questioned the quality of them so don’t know why you went on that rant. All of my players have exceptional work rate, I don’t see us getting caught often on the counter. Ronaldo threat has already been dealt with above.

If you think its a 3v1 you dont understand how Stoichkov played which pretty much means you are using him wrong so he will do feck all. Would you comment its an overkill if i didnt had a GOAT back 5, im not sure about it so thats why i commented, maybe im wrong though :)


And if going purely by WC record Vava achieved enough to be at this level, unlike 3 of the 5 of your defenders he got the job done in the finals he played in.

its a team sport you cant judge someone just because he won something, Fabregas won the FA Cup this season while playing like an absolute turd, Henderson was playing CL final. You judge individual performances not team success. Vava was a goalscorer in the team that was class above anyone and the reason why they were class above was not Vava, it was the likes of Pele and Didi. He won the WC, Stoichkov didnt yet the bulgarian is class above him in terms of this draft.
 
its a team sport you cant judge someone just because he won something, Fabregas won the FA Cup this season while playing like an absolute turd, Henderson was playing CL final. You judge individual performances not team success. Vava was a goalscorer in the team that was class above anyone and the reason why they were class above was not Vava, it was the likes of Pele and Didi. He won the WC, Stoichkov didnt yet the bulgarian is class above him in terms of this draft.
Come on man that's a weak argument, Fabregas didn't score two goals in the final and neither did Henderson. Vava's job is to stick the ball in the back of the net, in a world cup draft there aren't many better players who have done it in bigger wc games. Yes he played in a great team but he's not playing with bums here either, he's also playing with his team mate Garrincha who set him up with many goals.
 
And if going purely by WC record Vava achieved enough to be at this level, unlike 3 of the 5 of your defenders he got the job done in the finals he played in.

Low blow. Fecking Baggio destroying legacies here :lol:
 
as i said in post above, its really just a formation thing as i couldnt be bothered with stupid comments how Fenomeno is off his position if i placed him just instead of Rivaldo. Formations are pretty much irrelevant, its just to show positions in general what is important are roles players have and how the team intends to play and both Meazza(from what i can read at least) and Fenomeno will be in their element
It was also the fact that, seeing as Meazza is essentially another forward, you don't have a dedicated playmaker — neither in front or in midfield (even though some of your players were pretty creative for their respective roles). I'm clutching at straws obviously, as the rest of your team is close to perfection. If you'll go through and get one of Pele or Maradona :nervous:
 
Come on man that's a weak argument, Fabregas didn't score two goals in the final and neither did Henderson. Vava's job is to stick the ball in the back of the net, in a world cup draft there aren't many better players who have done it in bigger wc games. Yes he played in a great team but he's not playing with bums here either, he's also playing with his team mate Garrincha who set him up with many goals.

I didnt mean Vava was crap or something, maybe i expressed myself poorly as i used Hendo and Cesc only as examples to show how you can achieve great team success even though you are not great as an individual. Vava is good no doubt but others on the pitch are more then good thats m point. You can highlight Garrincha and Vava but as i said before, when it comes to partnership you dont want to go there as Baresi and Maldini conceded an average of 0.22 goals per World Cup match.
 
something just looks off with sjors front 3
I think it's the fact that for whatever reason he decided to bench the actual players and put their trophies on the pitch in their place :rolleyes:
 
Low blow. Fecking Baggio destroying legacies here :lol:

Baresi actually missed the first penalty :p

But seriously, I love these players and have used them many times in drafts, but since we are in a world cup draft surely these details matter. What's the point in a World Cup draft if you don't.
 
It was also the fact that, seeing as Meazza is essentially another forward, you don't have a dedicated playmaker — neither in front or in midfield (even though some of your players were pretty creative for their respective roles). I'm clutching at straws obviously, as the rest of your team is close to perfection. If you'll go through and get one of Pele or Maradona :nervous:

Dont need one in the way i want to play but i reckon we see Meazza differently as i see him more of an attacking midfielder then a forward.
In the first phase you have Neuer, Baresi as the likes who will start attacks, then you have 4 players that are great in transition, being via ball carrying or passing - Krol, Cafu, Tigana, Ardiles and the final act of Meazza and Ronaldo responsible for final third in theory although you would see overlapping with the likes of Cafu in the final third or Baresi in transitional phase etc.
 


Like Zinedine Zidane, Paul Breitner and Pele, Vava scored in two World Cup finals - the first man to actually do it. Uniquely, he’s the only player to have scored in consecutive finals. Of his 15 goals for Brazil, spread over nine years, nine of them came at the World Cup. Of those, seven were scored in the final (3), semi-final (3) or quarter-final (1). The other two saved his team from a group-stage exit in 1958. Look, the man just scored a lot of important goals, with ‘62 being a source of pride as he had to shoulder the burden of Pele’s injury and lead Brazil’s attack to glory.
 
If we are going to take this draft for what it is (performance in the tournament they have been selected from) then Vava looks solid here.
 
Its irrelevant what Vava did in consecutive finals or what he did in 62' as that not the version you are using. He scored 5 goals in 58 so credit to him and i already acknowledged that he is a good player but he isnt a great one as every other player on the pitch, at least IMO
Lets just use that scoring rate of his in 58, he scored 5 goals(with missing 2 games), Rahn and Pele scored 6 and Fontaine scored 13 in the same tournament! Compare that to Stabile for example who missed one game and scored 8 goals in 4 games while the second best scorer had 5 goals...
 
If we are going to take this draft for what it is (performance in the tournament they have been selected from) then Vava looks solid here.

exactly, he needs more then solid against that defence.
 
Its irrelevant what Vava did in consecutive finals or what he did in 62' as that not the version you are using. He scored 5 goals in 58 so credit to him and i already acknowledged that he is a good player but he isnt a great one as every other player on the pitch, at least IMO
Lets just use that scoring rate of his in 58, he scored 5 goals(with missing 2 games), Rahn and Pele scored 6 and Fontaine scored 13 in the same tournament! Compare that to Stabile for example who missed one game and scored 8 goals in 4 games while the second best scorer had 5 goals...
But no one is questioning those strikers mate.

It seems not many people are aware of the goals he scored and who is was.
 
But no one is questioning those strikers mate.

It seems not many people are aware of the goals he scored and who is was.

im just showing you that his goalscoring record isnt that great(its good) considering the level of his opponents.
 


whats your plan to stop Ronaldo? All you said so far unless i missed something is how my attack lacks width and there wont be any space for him, even if thats true and it isnt as this side has plenty of width it would be a bleak argument as Ronaldo didnt need much space and was immense in tight situations and here with you lacking a proper DM he will have a lot of chances to run at your defence face to face while on the other side we have Krol on Garrincha with Maldini covering behind. You cant ask more then that....
 


whats your plan to stop Ronaldo? All you said so far unless i missed something is how my attack lacks width and there wont be any space for him, even if thats true and it isnt as this side has plenty of width it would be a bleak argument as Ronaldo didnt need much space and was immense in tight situations and here with you lacking a proper DM he will have a lot of chances to run at your defence face to face while on the other side we have Krol on Garrincha with Maldini covering behind. You cant ask more then that....


He's going to stop Ronaldo by making him watch this on repeat