Can we not set the personal agenda towards Wayne Rooney aside and perhaps look at last nights situation in the correct context? Being asked to perform in the CAM role when surrounded by 3-4 defensive mids is basically being set up to fail. Still he made a few nice touches and some good 1 touch passes, sure he didn't set ther world alight with an earth shattering cameo, but hey, neither would the vast majority of players around the world given the very same scenario.
Wayne Rooney, The Midfield General? Mourinho Says No.
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How can you be sure when we barely ever play without him?
Wouldn't you need to see a few games first before coming to that conclusion?
just take a minute and write down CM players that you think are better then Rooney and see how far down you go before you think Rooney would get in, we as a club are trying to get back to the top yet we want to make a 3rd/4th tier CM player our midfield General.
Once again people have an agenda or hate his face if he gets criticised. Has it ocurred to you and others who keep repeating that 'agenda' thing that it got nothing to do with Rooney as a person but his actual performances on the pitch? He's been so underwhelming that mediocre displays is now being hailed as 'good'. He's now being compared to Schneiderlin, Herrera, Fellaini etc. to put him in a better light. The difference between Rooney and them is that they are out of the team after bad performances, Rooney's not. Hell, they're even being rotated after good perfomances. How can anyone fail to see this?
And as usual it's everyone else's fault when Rooney expectingly doesn't perform. Wrong position. Wrong teammates. Wrong tactical set up. Wrong kit. Wrong stadium. Excuses, excuses. Yes, he did have a few nice touches. And a couple of good passes. But his shooting was wayward, his forward passes under-par, and most of all his "Iniesta runs" were absolutely shocking. He simply just gave it away. I praised him for his run against CP but he doesn't have the skills nor the brain to go on such runs. Yet he decided to go on a couple of more after the first one failed. But fair play to him, he desperately wants to be a "clutch player" for England and United. But he's not good enough to be that player anymore.
Yea. One caveat. Those players aren't getting paid as highly as he is.
He had a couple of poor moments but no less solid than any other player. I think to be realistic that will really be the only way we can use him to be productive. Get him free between half way and the box to link up play and show up in the box, I can see Martial being very productive as a wide forward if we have can also acquire a good focal point that allows Rooney to sit in the space behind in the free role. 20-30 goals though, I can't see that, I'd be happy to see 15 goals/10 assists minimum in that role, I think that is an achievable target. Anywhere near 30 goals and we'll be absolutely in the mix to win the title. Providing some of our other fringe players play to their potential.
He was poor again yesterday, pity after he started well against Russia.
In his defence I don't like how Hodgson is using him. Playing him so far to the left just encourages him to play that same long ball to the right over and over again. He was at his best against Russia when he fairly deep and central.
In his defence I don't like how Hodgson is using him. Playing him so far to the left just encourages him to play that same long ball to the right over and over again. He was at his best against Russia when he fairly deep and central.
This.
He's getting paid three times as much as Neymar, if reports are to be believed. Yet Neymar is three times the player.
Rooney doesn't even shine against Slovakia. In fact he looks spent and leaden-footed.
Of all the many, many mistakes David Moyes made in his time at OT, Rooney's contract was the worst.
Except that Poland are better than any team in England's group.
The astonishing thing is that he is paid much better than Iniesta who is arguably an all time great. Crazy.
He's just not a great midfielder. We should be aiming for the elite - our midfielders should be amongst the best in the world, not just guys who will give it a bash because they are spent in their actual position.
Some of these arguments seem to amount to well he's a club legend, he's on £300K a week, he's Wayne Rooney!!! So we have to play him somewhere.
Some of these arguments seem to amount to well he's a club legend, he's on £300K a week, he's Wayne Rooney!!! So we have to play him somewhere.
It's only me but Walker, Dier, Sturridge, Vardy and Smalling have all been better.
Not for me but it's a game of opinions.
And since Rooney did nothing, I fail to understand your opinion.
Sturridge was very poor last night himself.
And England have been fairly poor during this Euro like a lot of other teams.
Oh really. I seem to recall that Sturridge actually played a few pretty good incisive passes one of which put Clyne clean on goal. Sure he had dribbles that didn't come off but you'd expect that from a player who's actually trying to make things happen.
Barely paid attention to the match as it was boring as hell, so I can't criticise him properly.
I did however see him put in a stupid, deep, ballooning cross that went into touch, moments after entering game. Ergo, a dud performance.
I did however see him put in a stupid, deep, ballooning cross that went into touch, moments after entering game. Ergo, a dud performance.
We need to put Rooney's performances into perspective. For all the talk about how well he has played in midfield, he has not been able to dominate two teams that shipped two and three against Wales.
Last night his introduction served only to improve England's set pieces. That's it. He is not Andres Iniesta. He is not Ivan Rakitic. He is not Koke. He is not Saul Niguez. He is not Luca Modric. He is not Toni Kroos. He is not an elite midfield player, and he does not look like he will become one. Have we already forgotten how Rooney was totally overrun in the second half of the FA Cup semi final by Gibbo and Clev? Have we already forgotten how anonymous he was at Upton Park when we lost 3-2? Rooney has only looked good in midfield against middling opposition.
If Manchester United aspire to win the title every year, if we still believe we are a 'giant club' as Jose Mourinho says, then our benchmark should be the best teams in the world. Would Rooney be starting in midfield for Barcelona, Atleti or Madrid? No. Would he be starting in midfield for Bayern, Juve or PSG? No. Rooney isn't even Santi Cazorla's equal in centre midfield, he wouldn't get into the Arsenal first XI at #8 (or Spurs' for that matter).
This Rooney the midfielder stuff has to be put to bed.
Last night his introduction served only to improve England's set pieces. That's it. He is not Andres Iniesta. He is not Ivan Rakitic. He is not Koke. He is not Saul Niguez. He is not Luca Modric. He is not Toni Kroos. He is not an elite midfield player, and he does not look like he will become one. Have we already forgotten how Rooney was totally overrun in the second half of the FA Cup semi final by Gibbo and Clev? Have we already forgotten how anonymous he was at Upton Park when we lost 3-2? Rooney has only looked good in midfield against middling opposition.
If Manchester United aspire to win the title every year, if we still believe we are a 'giant club' as Jose Mourinho says, then our benchmark should be the best teams in the world. Would Rooney be starting in midfield for Barcelona, Atleti or Madrid? No. Would he be starting in midfield for Bayern, Juve or PSG? No. Rooney isn't even Santi Cazorla's equal in centre midfield, he wouldn't get into the Arsenal first XI at #8 (or Spurs' for that matter).
This Rooney the midfielder stuff has to be put to bed.
Says a lot for Jack Wheelchair when a former striker is now regarded as a better midfielder than him.
Wilshere is a busted flush. Just because Rooney looks as competent as a player who is perpetually injured, and a couple of headless Liverpool players who spend all their time running down blind alleys, doesn't mean he's a world class #8.
I appreciate that there is a lot of love for Rooney after his huge commitment and devotion to the club which has made him one of the wealthiest sportsmen in Britain, however, he his an absolute shadow of his former self. If he was a footballer on the market today he would struggle to get anywhere near a top 6 PL side after him. People defending him on the back of the whole England performance being poor last night too - Rooney has been below average in 8 out of 10 games he's played for the last 3 seasons.
I'm wondering if it's not cultural, it seems that english can't say negative things about someone without it being seen as hatred.
Silly bet time...
I think Wilshere will play more PL games than Rooney over the next 3 seasons.
To be honest, I don't mind seeing a few games without him, but not now. He's been pretty good in the first two games in these Euros. Now is not the time to experiment is it? Should have done that before.
Nah, Mourinho will use Rooney as a #10. He likes hardworking #10s who can score goals and drop back into midfield and help out. Rooney's not a Sneijder or Ozil but he has the goal scoring talent to be like Lampard.
And when you play the game of opinions, you win or you die.
That is 'english' with a capital 'E' please....!
I agree. It's the only spot that Jose will find room for him. Unless he plays him as a wide forward.
I don't see a world that Jose wants a mid-table level midfielder starting for us.
Still think Wilshere will play more games over the next 3 years though.
This many people are willing to accept him in midfield because it now seems to be the position he is least shit at. However, if we have serious aspirations to become one of the best teams, we should be dong better than Rooney in midfield. It is not a must that Rooney should start for Man Utd.
Rooney being a competent midfielder doesn't make him good enough for what we want to achieve. So, he played well against Palace, Wales and Russia? big deal. We want to be competing against Real, PSG, Barca, Bayern and co. That is the standard.
How good is he in the No 10 role nowadays?
I agree, but the Rooney up top stuff too. If he manages to pull off a move that gives him space to shoot, he's off balance because of that move and he shoots a yard or two wide or over the bar. It's the same problem, whether in midfield or up top, he hasn't got the legs anymore to hit the ball right after he pulled off a move. If he would still have that like 5 years ago, he could have been a good midfielder, a good 10 or a good striker, but it's gone.
Time will tell. I don't see where else he'll get a game.
Rooney shouldnt even be in the squad imo
He isn't a great player anymore and yesterday when he came on he was a hinderence to England. Gave the ball away time and time again. Germany or Spain would not have selected him.
He isn't a great player anymore and yesterday when he came on he was a hinderence to England. Gave the ball away time and time again. Germany or Spain would not have selected him.
The amount of knee jerking on this thread is unbelievable. He comes on for about half an hour against a team with ten men in the box, and two strikers making no space for themselves to aim at and he's suddenly shite again. The fact that people are going are far as to to say fecking Smalling (who has been well below average) has had a better Euros than him is incredible.
Let's have it right, Rooney is not a "world class" centre mid and he never will be, but he is a good one and in the right set up he can be a very good one. He shouldn't be depended on to create all your chances because he's not that type of player, but alongside a more defensive and more attack minded midfielder Rooney will be able to do well for United. He can go from box to box looking for the ball and get it to the wingers consistently, which is now suddenly a bad thing despite Modric, Kroos, Verrati and the likes doing it on a regular basis.
Long story short is Rooney a midfield general? No. Is he shite? No. Is he good enough for United given the current state we're in? Yes he most definitely is.
Let's have it right, Rooney is not a "world class" centre mid and he never will be, but he is a good one and in the right set up he can be a very good one. He shouldn't be depended on to create all your chances because he's not that type of player, but alongside a more defensive and more attack minded midfielder Rooney will be able to do well for United. He can go from box to box looking for the ball and get it to the wingers consistently, which is now suddenly a bad thing despite Modric, Kroos, Verrati and the likes doing it on a regular basis.
Long story short is Rooney a midfield general? No. Is he shite? No. Is he good enough for United given the current state we're in? Yes he most definitely is.
they all gave the bloody ball away to be honest!
We shouldn't be playing Rooney in a position because he won't get a game elsewhere. We should be playing him in a position because he is good enough for that position.
Your last sentence is really the problem when discussing Rooney, this is where I think he is too, but the question is does this really merit us paying him £250,000 a week and him having a place in the team regardless of form.
In my view both England and United would be better off without him in the team, if I was an England fan I'd much prefer to see Vardy or Sturridge upfront and Kane behind, with two proper midfielders and some genuine width. To a degree it's inconsequential how well Rooney plays in the midfield role, if they are going to keep playing teams that pack the defence, 3 players in midfield is overkill. The first half against Wales is testament to this.
The question I find myself asking is whether Rooney would get into Spain or Germany's first eleven and in my view the answer is no. That really makes me question whether Rooney is a player that England should be sacrificing so much for.
Although on one hand I do agree that Rooney doesn't do enough to earn his big salary at United, it's not exactly denting our budget.
I think it's more useful to judge Rooney based on his performances as opposed to comparing him to his huge wage which he never should have gotten.
Although I completely agree with you regarding England not really needing three out and out centre midfielders, I'd say Rooney is pretty much comfortably one of the top two centre mids England have. The problem England have is they don't really have any natural width, their only real winger is Sterling and we saw how good he is during the first two matches for England.
I agree that Rooney wouldn't get In Spain's or even Germany's midfield, but there again when you're picking your team you have to look at England's best players and Rooney alongside Dier is probably the best England have. It's the same for United, as it stands with Bastian being injured all the time and Schniederlin and Herrera not playing well it does mean that by rights Rooney is currently our best centre midfielder. Now, I'm not saying that we should accept that and that we shouldn't look to replace him. But I wouldn't call for his head until he's staying on the pitch and we have an actual top quality player on the bench who can replace him.
You seem to be saying Rooney has already done enough things in midfield to be better than Morgan or Herrera. How did you come up with that?