Amad has to start the FA Cup final
Edit: Wrong thread
Wayne Rooney believes some United players pretending to be injured
- Thread starter Wilt
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Of course your interpretation is your business. A little piece of advice though - maybe avoid posting it on a public United fan forum if you don't want your posts to be scrutinised.
You're literally posting weird shit on multiple threads and are then surprised when fellow posters on the same forum call you out on your bullshit. Either stand by your posts or admit you were wrong. Resorting to namecalling isn't going to achieve much.
Eh? What on earth are you talking about? Where did I make comments on my posts being scrutinised? Where did I ever rescind my statements? I stand by my opinions and posts 100% at the time that I make them. Happy to discuss (which is the point of a discussion board? no?), but don’t quote other posters saying I am “weird” for engaging in discussion in a thread, whilst you’re actively searching my other posts. THAT is weird.
I can say, wholeheartedly, I have NEVER had the inclination to look at another posters posts in other threads. Not once. In fact, I respond to the comments (not the person) and I frankly couldn’t give a shit who made post. I don’t even know if I have ever interacted with you on another thread before - but I can bet my fecking life that you know. Weirdo.
"Scrutinise my posts all you like", he says, a few minutes after calling a poster a freak for scrutinising his comments:
Honestly mate - it's okay to jump to conclusions about Mason Mount because you dislike him. I also wish we hadn't signed him. But to vehemently persist with your anti-Mount rhetoric, whilst trying to insult anyone who points out the hypocrisy in your posts, stinks of insecurity.
I think the only players that it would 'make sense' for them to feign injury would be Varane and Lindelof, as one is leaving and the other will be likely too because his contract ends next year (so it's in Utd's interest to sell now).
Maguire/Rashford/Mount's injuries doesn't make sense because it's in their best interests to actually get games. You could maybe make a case for Maguire as he may want to leave and be in the best shape for the Euro's but considering his track record, it would be uncharacteristic.
Has he ever spoken about this? He was an important player for France iirc and he bloody won it, so maybe if he has any regrets, it's bitter sweet. Whilst carrying a big injury, Di Maria famously said he would have been happy to play in the 2014 final and begged Sabella, even if it meant he couldn't ever play football again afterwards. In the end, he didn't play with perhaps some of Madrid's influence and then in the summer moved to us. Bet he wished he did play
Maguire/Rashford/Mount's injuries doesn't make sense because it's in their best interests to actually get games. You could maybe make a case for Maguire as he may want to leave and be in the best shape for the Euro's but considering his track record, it would be uncharacteristic.
Has he ever spoken about this? He was an important player for France iirc and he bloody won it, so maybe if he has any regrets, it's bitter sweet. Whilst carrying a big injury, Di Maria famously said he would have been happy to play in the 2014 final and begged Sabella, even if it meant he couldn't ever play football again afterwards. In the end, he didn't play with perhaps some of Madrid's influence and then in the summer moved to us. Bet he wished he did play
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Edit: I have edited my post below, which as others have suggested, makes the podcast sound a lot more explicit than it actually is.
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The Talk of the Devils podcast talked about this today. The impression I got is that both Mitten and Anka feel that Rooney may have been targetting Bruno Fernandes with his comments on Sunday.
The host first introduces the topic around the 15 minute mark linking Rooney's comments with Bruno's return. Mitten substantiates Rooney's claim as "correct" and "well-sourced", but was unable to stand it up further on particular players. The discussion meanders for around ten minutes about Bruno, the match last night, and Varane.
At around the 25:00 minute mark, the discussion recircles back to Bruno about his future. Mitten again, unprompted, links Bruno with "the Rooney stuff" then abruptly cuts himself off, showing some discomfort, saying "it has been an odd few days". Mitten then spends several minutes defending Bruno's record and time at United. A few minutes later Anka then again brings up Rooney's comments again, angry at Rooney for both his unprofessionalism, his unwillingness to name names and leave a load of players facing unfair criticism. He also points out that Rooney should know better given what playing through injuries did to his career. He then defends a hypothetical player essentially saying he cannot do it anymore to his boss playing with painkillers or an "absolutely busted" hand or a "busted ankle" (which are Bruno's known injuries). He says he is not saying that Rooney was talking about Bruno directly, but then defends Bruno potentially having had a conversation with the club about expectations. Mitten says Bruno is known to be very frustated with ex-players constantly criticising United.
My very strong impression, both on first listen and re-listen, is that they both know more than they are letting on about what Rooney knew, about who was criticising and about whether it was partly Bruno's decision to not play in the last two matches, due to no longer being able to play through multiple injureies, but don't quite have the sources where they can stand up reporting on this more directly. Other interpretions of what they said are available.
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The Talk of the Devils podcast talked about this today. The impression I got is that both Mitten and Anka feel that Rooney may have been targetting Bruno Fernandes with his comments on Sunday.
The host first introduces the topic around the 15 minute mark linking Rooney's comments with Bruno's return. Mitten substantiates Rooney's claim as "correct" and "well-sourced", but was unable to stand it up further on particular players. The discussion meanders for around ten minutes about Bruno, the match last night, and Varane.
At around the 25:00 minute mark, the discussion recircles back to Bruno about his future. Mitten again, unprompted, links Bruno with "the Rooney stuff" then abruptly cuts himself off, showing some discomfort, saying "it has been an odd few days". Mitten then spends several minutes defending Bruno's record and time at United. A few minutes later Anka then again brings up Rooney's comments again, angry at Rooney for both his unprofessionalism, his unwillingness to name names and leave a load of players facing unfair criticism. He also points out that Rooney should know better given what playing through injuries did to his career. He then defends a hypothetical player essentially saying he cannot do it anymore to his boss playing with painkillers or an "absolutely busted" hand or a "busted ankle" (which are Bruno's known injuries). He says he is not saying that Rooney was talking about Bruno directly, but then defends Bruno potentially having had a conversation with the club about expectations. Mitten says Bruno is known to be very frustated with ex-players constantly criticising United.
My very strong impression, both on first listen and re-listen, is that they both know more than they are letting on about what Rooney knew, about who was criticising and about whether it was partly Bruno's decision to not play in the last two matches, due to no longer being able to play through multiple injureies, but don't quite have the sources where they can stand up reporting on this more directly. Other interpretions of what they said are available.
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I'd be surprised if it was Bruno as last night he said that he thinks the club should build around him. Also don't really think it's unprofessional to state that his opinion on it. Didn't Anka do something similar recently too? Said something then didn't name anyone?
I agree with Paul on this. Though why would it be Bruno? Up until those last two games he missed, Bruno NEVER missed any game through injury. He could well have played through some knocks and niggles during his time here. Rooney was stirring the pot unnecessarily for god knows what reason. If it's not the medical team getting slandered for almost 15 years (the accusations of them being shit comes from the later Fergie era, despite it being a totally different team), it's now the players faking it.
Yet didn't Rooney say after the game that the team should be built round Bruno.
I'd be surprised if it was Bruno as last night he said that he thinks the club should build around him. Also don't really think it's unprofessional to state that his opinion on it. Didn't Anka do something similar recently too? Said something then didn't name anyone?
For me Rooney was very obviously trying to salvage his mistake. I think he knows he shouldnt' have said that and came across a lot nicer in the post match analysis yesterday.
Bruno is absolutely right to be angry and Carl Anker was spot on.
It also proved the thick, easily enraged online mob wrong. I'll doubt they'll be as vocal in their apology they were in their misguided witch hunt.
And people wonder why Bruno is reportedly open to leaving. The amount of shit he gets off ex United players is a joke. Guy didn't miss a game for us through injury in over four fecking years and he carried us through some of our darkest periods as a club. Deserves a lot more respect.
Shame he couldn't just admit he was wrong, but pundits rarely do.
As someone said Rooney should be well aware of how playing through injuries can shorten your career. Managers and medical staff need to realise which niggles are fine to play through and which are not. If they can play, make sure they get good treatment inbetween games to make sure it does not escalate into something worse.
He even get's it from a lot of the fanbase which must drive him as crazy as it does me. If he does leave, they will all soon miss him. Just like when Rooney left and subsequently retired in the US, the bad later seasons were almost forgotten because his replacements were 100x worse.
Wouldn't happen.
I think Rooney shouldn't have said it (and there is a broader problem with our ex players being unhelpful on TV by spouting nonsense) but in isolation its a storm in a teacup and we should move on.
Personally don't think it's wrong to say at all. It's a normal thing in football (to manage games and perhaps not play in dead rubber type games if you're not completely 100%) and if a player is offended by it when he didn't even mention who it was, then they need to fix up.
Also in regards to Anka, someone posted on here a few weeks ago about how he said United were in the market for a centre half but then refused to name who it was so can't really take the moral high ground on people not naming names when it comes to topics.
Bruno is literally the last United player that would come to mind on hearing Rooney's comments. Seems completely mad to me that anyone would assume he was talking about Bruno. How on earth did they come to that conclusion?
That's one of the most ridiculous comparisons I have ever read.
The fanbase is quick to jump on anything to demonise the players, it's why our latest crop of managers will use it to deflect from their own mistakes (I'm sure you disagree on whom though) and it feeds into their frustrations. The truth is that yes, these players are injured, they aren't faking it. McTominay had an injury about two or three games ago where he looked visibly enraged about it. The injury ended up just being a knock, but he was probably disappointed that he could have potentially been out for weeks again at the time. I don't know how you can fake that.
Why? He knows what he's doing by doing that. Creating speculation. So it's fine for him to do so?
My wider point is that it's fair token in the punditry and journalism world where people don't name names when circling topics. Everyone does it for every topic. Barely anyone actually names people. The only reason it happens so often with United is because the punditry game is unfortunately saturated with ex-United pros.
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You're suggesting a journalist cannot condemn someone for saying something which started a witch hunt that directly led to the abuse of players because he once playfully wouldn't tell listeners which free transfer United should go for? That's fecking bonkers.
Probably just jumped to conclusions based on their personal dislike of Bruno.
I'm saying that Anka knows the game and he does it himself. All pundits and journalists talk about a range of topics but don't name names. It's standard to create speculation or garner views and reactions, aswell as part of giving opinions on football.
If fans start abusing players or others because of that, it's on them for being thickos, not Rooney et al.
Eh? Have you actually read the last page of posts.
Rooney will have inside info. I think theres some truth in his comments. Martial springs to mind. Ive seen him out and about walking with his mrs. He looked fit as a fiddle.
Hard to say who else, the only one id exclude is Licha who clearly wants to play.
Hard to say who else, the only one id exclude is Licha who clearly wants to play.
Yeah, those TOTD guys are incredibly reluctant to call out Rashford (who was the most obvious suspect after Rooney’s comments) so that doesn’t surprise me.
This comparison has got not less ridiculous with more detail. Let's just leave it there.
It's very two different things - and Anka hasn't done anything comparable to Rooney here. Firstly, Anka isn't Wayne Rooney. Rooney is a United club legend and a walking headline if he says something remotely controversial.
Rooney also made a very lazy assumption that players must be feigning injury which puts professionalism into question.
That's nothing like Anka saying United want a CB (which has been corroborated by every journalist worth their salt). It's not controversial and it's not a headline putting professionalism into question.
Generally speaking the media has very much changed, and players are targeted a lot more than they used to be. Careless words from Rooney without basis are detrimental and he should be mindful of that.
Also, he didn't say United were signing him, he was saying they should. It wasn't even a rumor, it was an opinion.
What are you talking about? Why would they call out Rashford? The point isn’t that they are engaging in conjecture about Rooney is talking about, but have well sourced information that they know Rooney was criticising Bruno Fernandes specifically.
It doesn't really matter what topics they are. They're both going to or trying to create speculation and discussion which is my wider point. Absolutely everyone in the industry does it from pundits to journalists. If fans or people on twitter are going to start abusing players then that's on them for being thickos and dickheads, it's not on Rooney. I don't think it is unprofessional to say and I think it is a fairly obvious point to make concerning football. If someone does have a slight niggle that they can play through but there are only 3 games left and one's a final and you have a Euros on the horizon then it makes complete sense for some to manage and save themselves. Rooney quite clearly just has a hardened football mentality which he believes you should play every game and perhaps a black and white opinion.
Their job is to provide opinion on football and they're chosen because they're ex-professionals with insight into the game. I think it's clear when Rooney speaks he is speaking from a view of himself and his view on the game where he would probably play through little niggles at times. He said it again last night where he said if you're fit enough to be on the bench then you're fit enough to start. That's clearly his viewpoint on football and it's shared by quite a lot of other ex-pros.
I think you're missing my wider point which is about speculation and media. If you disagree, that's fine, but in my opinion it's standard practice which everyone does and we see it happen every single week.
Because Rashford was out injured at the time of Rooney's comments and regularly misses games with what seem to be minor niggles. The exact opposite of Bruno who never misses any games and recently played a match with a fractured bone in his hand. If you're going to speculate about footballers refusing to play matches they are capable of playing, then Rashford is an obvious suspect and Bruno is literally the last footballer on earth you would assume that about.
If Rooney was specifically talking about Bruno and told assorted journalists who he was alluding to then he's a fecking idiot, as is any journalist who didn't challenge him over talking such obvious nonsense.
Unfortunately, top football players are not top football players necessarily because they are analytic masterminds. Their expertise in football pertains much to intuition in on-field situations and the part of tactics most relevant to their position. Many ex-players start of well as pundits because they have first hand knowledge fresh in their memory of how complex traing and game situations can be, and they have a natural humility with respect to how much the medical staff, coaches, managers, even groundkeepers know that they don’t have a more than a faint clue about. They start out as respectful and speak assertively only about what they have concrete experience with.
After two-five years of being away from football, being asked by journalists more interested in a juicy story than a levelheaded analysis, they gradually forget what they know as football players, and starts to take on an ‘expert persona’ largely tuned in on journalists and media people’s expectations to them as ‘experts on anything football’. They talk more and more all-knowingly and dramaticly about any subject, and the only thing still left of the football player is the idea of standards - the willingness to sacrifice for almost unrealistic ambitions. Unfortunately, this combo is the very definition of a stupid, perspective-less well-pisser.
Scholes, Keane, Rio, Neville - I’ve no doubt in my mind that they want United to become better, they are just driven to loudmouthed, negative idiocy most of the time. Neville at least actually tries to ameliorate this at times.
They are so much more interesting and reflective when they talk about their own actual carreers.
Ah forget.
You should dock yourself a couple of points and pretend this never happened.
They aren't though. One is creating speculation leaning back on Skysports after a game and just punting on a situation, the other is saying United need a centre back which is corroborated by various journalists with well placed sources.
I don't think it's common for pundits or journalists to say with a strong degree of conviction that players are faking injuries. That's quite a bold and serious accusation.
Well therein lies the problem. He's guesstimated on what the issues are and assumed a lot out of the situation, effectively peddling a lie on Sky Sports. It doesn't matter if it's been done before by someone else, it doesn't make the statement any less wrong.
Correct - give insight into the game. Not whether a player who wasn't in the matchday squad is actually hurt or faking an injury. He can stick to his remit and talk about the game itself and where we did well, where we did bad and stop there.
Indeed, and by not naming names you're creating speculation about who it is.
It's not really a bold or serious accusation, it's an obvious point in football that I would figure that most people would understand happens regularly?
Football isn't just about the game they're watching. They're being asked questions about United overall and the football world overall.
The Anka speculating bit still makes no sense. There's no speculation in stating United need a center back. Many reputable journalists are told what positions are a priority for a club, they would report accordingly and state these positions are prioritised.
Speculation would be throwing a name out there in a lazy fashion. For example if Anka didn't have corroboration outside of "he plays for a connected club" and said "They're looking at Todibo" --> that would be speculation. But he didn't.
Also no to playing down the accusation too. It's a very serious accusation from an ex player to assume current players at the club are feigning injury. He's basically trying to beat his chest with the whole narrative of how he'd never do that, and making the media believe that United players are. There is a very small handful of cases where that's happened before in punditry, if ever. I cant think of a case, so yeah it's pretty rare.
He gave details about the CB and then refused to name them. Just weird behaviour unless you're doing it on purpose to create discussion etc.
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He didn't make the media believe United players are ffs. He just gave his opinion about it and if the media and fans are going to lap that up as gospel then more fool them.
Anyway, we can agree to disagree.
Eh? What details did he give? Also journalists are told things on and off the record. Even Mitten says things that he's allowed to but stops short when it enters off the record territory. It's wild that you see this as speculation.
He very much did, through sensationalist comments being sure that United players were feigning injury, which is evidently not true.