Rated a 7.2 by the Caf a whole +0.6 clear of the average. Revisionism on your part most likely. I am pretty sure Herrera was the official MOTM in any case.
10
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 41
- Goals
- 15
- Assists
- 6
- Yellow cards
- 5
- Status
Not revisionism. I went to the game and saw a recorded version again later on. Then on the podcast the 3 of us doing that episode all said the same thing. Good goal, good harrowing for the 3rd but generally fairly poor.
Maybe I just disagree with the rest of the Cafe's assessment, but 7.2 is hardly some great score. That's just good. If that's Rooneys best game in memory then it says everything you need to know.
I agree, even if I think that Rooney can do some good matches up front, it is madness not to have signed another striker to properly put him under pressure. Rooney is in a big comfort zone at Utd, he doesn't have to give his best in every match since he knows he'll always start.
There's a significant difference between being world class and being shit. And Rooney has quite clearly not been shit. Not by a long way.
And yes, he was by some distance at that although it's now fashionable to pretend that he was uber shit that season and Fergie repeatedly dropped him. He must have contributed close to 80 goals in those 2 seasons alone but yeah shit...
The rest of your post doesn't even make sense. Am I amazed that people are amazed that he's undroppable and call him shit when he's been one of our best players in the time period? Yeah, I definitely am because it's plain gibberish! Keep your strawman's to yourself.
And I really couldn't give two shits how much he earns and I have zero interest is classifying whether a performance was a 50k one or a 300k one.
Of course, but in that case no one is ever shit. And every player to come through United's academy is amazing. Because compared to the average footballer, they totally are.
It's all relative, surely it makes sense to rate Rooney by his pay bracket and by the reputation he's built for himself, and his status in what is one of the world's biggest teams? By those standards, I'd say he's been a bit shit. He hasn't been winning us many games, showing moments of quality, winning us matches single handedly and as such hasn't been nominated for awards.
Rating Rooney by the average United player seems weird to me. He's on 3 times more (atleast) than most of the team. Why should it be relative to them?
Just one poster suggested that he was shit, I don't think anyone else really agrees with that, probably not even him if thinks about it. But the thing is that he was definitely not delivering half of what he is expected, so he will receive the criticisim.
He wasn't shit as some other players, and when you are not shit as Valencia, Hernandez, and few others during that time that doesn't mean you were good. Sure, you can make it sound like he was one of our best attacking players but if you got bit into a detail it means feck all when they were all shit. He didn't even stand out in bad bunch.
Well, people do and people think that players should perform at least close that how they are paid to perform, which is fine, as clubs expect them to do that to, that's why they reward them with better contract when they do. He is obviously not even close as good as his wages suggest, so that's why his bad performances will raise more eyebrows than someone's like Blind's for example.
What a weird comparison. Falcao was shit. Rooney wasn't. When someone's shit it's quite obvious they are shit whether that's playing for Luton Town or Manchester United. Rooney contributed to 40 goals in '13-14 for instance. That's not shit relative to anything.
I'm not sure how it makes sense. For a start, we don't even know how much the players are paid. It's all hearsay from a bunch of unreliable newspapers. Even if we did assume the papers got it right we have no idea of what the break up is. How much is the basic pay? How much is performance or appearance related? How much of it is image rights? We don't know. Basing something on what you have no idea about is a rather pointless pointless. In addition, wages are not entirely dependent or based on performances. Specifically to Rooney, his wages will no doubt take into account his marketability and the fact that he's been at United for a long time.
I'm happy to leave the accounting bit to people who have intimate knowledge of all details and judge players on they perform for the club.
And my reply was to that one person.
The criticism is well over the top, which is my point. Most of our other top players get a bunch of excuses made for them. "Di Maria couldn't make a 5 yard pass because his house was burgled". "Falcao has fantastic movement and finishing. He's only shit because he doesn't get chances". "Mata is the most creative player in the squad and the only reason he doesn't create anything is because our strikers are shit". Not Rooney though. When he has a bad game or god forbid a bad touch, it's generally because he's shit and in decline and is root of everything that is wrong with United. Seems he's been in decline since he joined us. When a team is playing shit, you look at the players who are not playing well, not the one's who are.
It is unnecessary pressure which both the team and Rooney can avoid. Let's not forget the shit sandwich LVG has to eat when He sees Rooney is no longer consistent up front. Just spulrge another 20mill extra and take a well informed risk, instead of a crazy one.
I hope he does asap so the chances he will go to US will increase imo.
We really should be after a striker. Rooney up front for majority of the season won't win us anything.
Rooney still has a role to play but not as our regular number 9. I hope LVG has noticed how Rooney stops a lot of attacking transitions by either a poor touch or a poor pass.
Rooney still has a role to play but not as our regular number 9. I hope LVG has noticed how Rooney stops a lot of attacking transitions by either a poor touch or a poor pass.
Well, its obvious to me but the majority on here seem to think that we just get a back up striker for Wayne and we are sorted!
If we going to play him and Depay up front, we better off switching them imo.
Rooneys best strike partner was Saha, who was running in behind. I don't get why we haven't let them switch rather than having Depay as always behind Rooney.
Rooneys best strike partner was Saha, who was running in behind. I don't get why we haven't let them switch rather than having Depay as always behind Rooney.
The issue with Rooney isn't that he still couldn't serve the squad, it's that we pay and treat him like an elite talent on the Ronaldo, Messi, Suarez, Neymar, Aguero etc.....level, and he's nowhere near that these days.
If Rooney is our main striker for the season there is absolutely no way we will challenge for the title.
Not me, he does not play the striker role well IMO. I would prefer a replacement, rather than a backup. Rooney is a talented player, but I can't think of one position in the United team where I would rather have him than another player. We have better wide players, better No. 10s, better midfield players. So that only leaves striker, and he doesn't do it for me. Not too impressed with the alternatives, hence, a replacement.
I am beginning to wish SAF had stayed on and kicked his arse out of the door. Moyes giving him the captaincy and that contract is going to haunt us.
I agree with the part that we treat him like an elite talent and he is probably one level below those players you mentioned. but nevertheless from a marketing point of view he deserves this kind of payment and that's what makes football difficult these days ...
I still think his best position is the second striker. But obviously, our best front man
Yeah but we would still be fecked to be honest, because we would have Welbeck up front if SAF had stayed. The market is looking very weak in terms of available strikers, so I cant see how SAF (who was as stingy as it gets in his latter years) would have adequately replaced Rooney. That being said, Moyes has indeed fecked us over by bending over for Rooney and we are stuck with a past it player on a superstars contract.
Skipping over all the negative comments that might or might not be right, anyone thought that he is starting to forge a good understanding with Memphis? I like that they are looking for each other and their styles seem to be complementary.
I've said the same thing many times, although in my observation, he is more a number 8 playing up front than a number 10. That doesn't mean I'm saying he belongs in central midfield, but he does seem like a centre midfielder playing 15/20 yards further forward. He doesn't have the quick change of pace/direction or dribbling of an archetypal 10, he is a worker, tries to hit long passes, can create, but not the most intricate creating like a 10.
He's like a CM who can finish well playing up top. Basically, if you played Lampard at centre forward, he'd look like the Rooney of today.
Forums can get like that I guess, as it is always one extreme against the other. Can you imagine, on a United forum, for instance, the response people would generally be getting for saying Rooney is poor, rubbish, average, just 'good' or whatever?
never thought of it that way, but that seems entirely accurate. good comparison.
he wasn't great yesterday, but it's early days. he always takes time getting into match rhythm. no reason to think he won't have an excellent year.
Was fine today and its not like our other attacking players have been in breath taking form in the pre season or creating chances for fun. Rooney if played up top all season is definitely capable of getting 20+ goals and a half a dozen assists all season.
With that being said , I'm surprised we've not bought a striker yet or a young players who can challenge/eventually replace him once he gets older. Sometimes tough competition brings the best out of you.
With that being said , I'm surprised we've not bought a striker yet or a young players who can challenge/eventually replace him once he gets older. Sometimes tough competition brings the best out of you.
Yep, some lovely linking between the two. Rooney > Depay a bit more successful for the moment.
Off the field, he is, and I reckon that shouldn't be overlooked. As much as I think Rooney is shit (relatively speaking of course), I do kind of understand his last two contracts. Timing is everything, and Stretford has done brilliantly by him.
During the whole 'he wants to go to City' saga, as a club, we were under threat. We had just sold Ronaldo, and brought in the likes of Valencia, Obertan etc - players at least a few brackets below Ronaldo. Rooney then went on to have his best season ever. He was then, the undisputed star in the team, and as a club, we were under pressure to put on a show of strength and show that we were still the same draw. The message that losing Rooney at that point would have sent would have been one of real weakness. We can't attract the best, and we can't hold on to our best. City were just emerging, and Rooney going there would have been too big off the field. It just so happened that his contract was up for review at the perfect time. A couple of years before, Ronaldo would have been here, and his chipswould not have been as high.
In the time that followed, we again signed a better attacking player than Rooney (Persie), and he went on to win the league for us. Fergie was in charge, and Rooney's influence on the team lessening. Again, if the timing were a bit different, Rooney would have held far less chips in renegotiation, as shown by the fact that he was almost out the door. However, fast forward a bit, and the club's image/reputation was again under pressure. Fergie had gone, and everone was waiting to see if the wheels would fall off. Moyes came in, and was shite. People were writing articles again about whether we could not only attract the best players, but even hold on to ours, especially if we didn't make the CL. Again, conveniently, Rooney's contract was up for renewal at a point where it would have sent far too negative a message off the field to lose our most recognisable name. It would have frther underlined the fears about us crumbling, and the club had to keep him, for stability's sake if nothing else. He was in a position once again to dictate his terms, despite the fact that around those two contracts, he had been often underwhelming.
Fergie was never stingy when it came to strikers. He would have got Ronaldo back if he stayed. There was talk.
It's true that he has had some very fortuitous timing in his career and his "street footballer" gimmick has been mined into a brand that has been a global success. However the scales have since tipped where that leverage is affecting the footballing side of things and that should never allowed to be the case.
I agree. Although, as sad as it is, protecting the United brand is probably - probably, a bit more important than the success of the team short term. I imagine we aim for both, but allowing our image to slip is probably something the suits will not risk, and Rooney therefore had to stay while there were so many question marks off the field.
For a long time, Rooney has been in the top 3 most marketable footballers in the world (according to these lists they publish) along with Messi and Ronaldo. If you have one of those in that bracket, you maintain them. We couldn't be wheeling Fletcher out to sponsors worldwide, just because the caf seemed to think he was the best midfielder of his type in the world whenever it was when they thought that.
The brand of United is much more about successfully competing for trophies than it is about having Wayne Rooney though. We got rid of Beckham at the height of his marketability and he was much more so than Rooney, because the manager felt it was the right time for the club. The main issue though isn't getting rid of Rooney, it's removing his safety net of guaranteed starter that is the bigger problem right now.
We did get rid of Beckham, but the point is, there were no question marks about our status at the time. Becks had a great brand, but we were established as a super club. If it so happened that our obituaries were being written at the same time Fergie had a fall out with Becks, a conversation may well have been had and the decision not taken so easily. As it was, Fergie being there himself guaranteed a certain level of stability. Moyes, coupled with sub-par signings, added to rivals looking super strong paints a very different picture.
I also agree with you about Rooney not being a starter. He doesn't need to be sold as a player, although I think he may need to be sold to not be a starter in reality. If he's here, he'll play. I also have a suspicion that his captaincy and status were included in his last deal, which included him being an ambassador after he retires. It was just paper talk, but nobody expected LVG to even take to him let alone make him captain, and I just have a suspicion that those things were agreed before Louis even came. He was poor last season, and we have seen how he has treated others, even big names, that have been poor. There has been a notably different attitude towards Rooney. He was big enough to drop his own record signing for Young, sell his favourite in Van Persie, let go of Falcao - but not even a hint of discontent towards Rooney or threat to his place. I suspect that as long as he's here, he will play.
It's a fair point that our last 2 seasons have weakened us in regards to the issue in comparison to the Beckham sale, but the more worrying part is the 2nd paragraph. Like I said he could still offer a couple more seasons as an option, but while it's only speculation there is a pervading air of our hands being tied regarding his power at the club, even to the point that no matter how poor he plays he's rarely ever the one subbed off, it's always someone else that is sacrificed if we are trying to freshen up the attack, even if the person coming off has been doing their part well enough.
So Manchester United agreed a deal where in Rooney was guaranteed to be captain and starter no matter what? Do some of you actually read what you write? Because that's the biggest load of bollocks I've read. It's like people are determined to make Rooney the scapegoat no matter what. After the ridiculous predictions of Van Gaal and Rooney falling out with each turned out be just wishful thinking, the conspiracy has now shifted to how Rooney has magically negotiated a contract where he's to be first choice. Christ. Maybe...just maybe you can admit that he wasn't actually poor last season but nah that would too much I guess
I think people generally underrate just how many potential goals those poor touches and poor passes cost us. Yes everyone does it, but Rooney on a much more consistent basis than any other top player i can think of. My main problem with Rooney is not whether he is capable to score enough goals next season as I'm sure he is. My problem with him is that he prevents our attacking force from operating at full potential. All those poor touches, passes, and times where he tends to hold on to the ball for far too long cost us a lot of goals whether people see it or not. Get a striker who hasn't completely lost other aspects of their game and can score goals at the same time, and we'll see a big difference. That might seem a lot to ask, just look at the other top teams out there and their current striker/main man and you'll have your answer. For me, he just doesn't do nearly enough for the team when he is not scoring.
I'd say two seasons back perhaps he was in the bracket under Ronaldo and Messi alongside other world class players such as Neymar, Suarez, Aguero, Lewandowski, Benzema, Sanchez etc. but when you look at these players and what they do for the team, even when they're not scoring, Rooney doesn't compare. Only his goal scoring abilities remain comparable to these players. Also, most of the mentioned are the players who their respective teams rely on to score goals before people tell me that it's hard to have both.
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Yes he has always formed his best partnerships with this kind of forward.
He's getting a rough ride of late, and I'm not exactly his biggest fan. He makes good runs, will seek to get in behind defenders and, if presented, will take his chances.
Could we do better? Probably, yes. But viable alternatives don't exist right now, and Rooney playing at #9 is guaranteed goals. He's the least of our problems.
Could we do better? Probably, yes. But viable alternatives don't exist right now, and Rooney playing at #9 is guaranteed goals. He's the least of our problems.
But he was poor last season. Not as poor as say, Bale telling, if that is your point.
And it isn't unheard of for certain conditions on percentage of games played being in a contract, and I don't see why it is ridiculous for Rooney to have been promised the captaincy that was clearly about to change hands with Vidic going, in his negotiations. I'm not going to bang on about that, as I said, it is pure hypothesis, but you should take your tone down if you think money is the only thing negotiated in contract talks. It's all brinkmanship, and whoever holds the biggest cards, which always seems to be Rooney for reasons I have already mentioned, hold the biggest cards.
If Rooney had been treated in accord with others, then I would not speculate as such. My speculation is based upon actual events, and trying to understand why a manager who can rightfully drop and subsequently sell big names for playing poorly has not even once, for one game, dropped Rooney, to the extent where Herrera is even dropped so that he can play in an unnatural position instead. In case you missed it, Rooney didn't actually have a Kane-like season himself, so at a club with such competition as Falcao, Persie, Wilson, Di Maria - it shouldn't be unfathomable that a player who got 12 goals could be dropped/rotated out of the line up, at least once. Especially when considering the treatment of another striker who only got 2 less in Persie.
Van Gaal himself said on more than one occasion that nobody is guaranteed a place except Rooney. Do you honestly think k he performed at a level where he is the one player beyond question? In a team where performers like Smalling, Herrera or Mata are not guaranteed to play, despite what they offered last season, but Rooney deserves his position to not be questioned?
You make some interesting points. I know some of it is based on hypothesis, however I have been wondering about the privileges that Rooney has. But I do wonder what would possess United to make such a deal. I understand things were starting to look bad already for us under Moyes and Woodward would not have wanted Rooney going at that stage from a status/marketing point. This though would have given Rooney and his agent a lot of leverage (if that was what Woodward was focusing on at the time), therefore it's not out of the realms of possibility that he would have tried to negotiate getting the armband. The always starting thing though I refuse to believe could have happened because that would mean Moyes and Woodward have created a huge huge stumbling block for the club.
Yea, probably not an 'I must always start' clause per se. That said, an agreement to become next captain almost guarantees the same thing.
I don't think a captaincy clause is that far fetched though, especially given that Moyes/Woodward probably wouldn't have known there would be a managerial change coming, so all it would have taken was for Moyes to okay it, and he probably planned to make Rooney his captain anyway and had no problem with it.
Again, all hypothesis of course. That said, knowing Van Gaal and his tactical fetishism, Carrick seems his extension on the pitch, and is more a Van Gaal captain to me. He's Strootman /Van Bommel like.
Oh for sure I suspect he did have a 'captaincy' clause. And yes Carrick is more LVG's type of player. But if Rooney has another meh season, the club would be mad not to rethink his position.
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