[Successful]

I think Rooney looked good with his link play yesterday, nice little touches. The issue, is he just doesn't threaten the goal enough anymore. His natural instincts appear to be that of a midfield player. Depay, for instance, who plays deeper, has a greater instinct for scoring it seems. There will be more situations, half chances, scuffed shots etc where he is looking to actually threaten the goal. Rooney seems to do it once or twice a game.

I also think it is wrong for @AttackingFlair to show a video of Rooney finishing well 6 years ago and say 'surely he can still finish like that?'. In that case, we don't have to go back nearly as far and we could say the same of RVP.

And will the caf ever dispense of this theory that Rooney has basically spent his entire career in midfield, give or take the odd game, in which he probably scored 4 each time you would think. Rooney has predominantly been a striker for his entire career, sometimes on his own, sometimes with another striker (just as the likes of Suarez, Aguero, Henry have) - and on the grand scheme of things, has played in 'midfield' very, very fleetingly. You can't classify seasons where he played just behind RVN or Saha or Smith or whoever, with 4 actual midfielders behind him as 'playing in midfield', which is what people seem to be trying to do. Now he has apparently played up front for only 2 seasons in his career, which is absolute shite.

Anyway, back to 'performances', there were certainly positives in his game last night, but if we are to insist on playing him centre forward, we could definitely do with a Pedro or Bale to help out, as Rooney spends too much time as a creator. His touch was good against San Jose though. And I'd still back him to take a presentable chance if and when it falls to him. I just don't think the if and when will be frequent enough. It isn't his game for it do so. He isn't in scoring positions/situations often enough.

It's early season now. Rooney always take some time to get started. 19 goals this season guaranteed.

 

[Rozay]

It's early season now. Rooney always take some time to get started. 19 goals this season guaranteed.

Wasn't really going on pre-season alone tbh, but point taken.

Around 19 is what I expect from him too. Not convinced that 19 is worth the billing anyway, nor all the shifting around of the striker department and the search for 'back-up' so that the conditions can be right for a 19 goal striker - but it will probably do for us, providing the rest of the team works well.

 

[Kaos]

No excuses this time really. He'll be our main CF with little competition, he'll no longer be forced into midfield and will this time have a potent midfield supplying him.

Assuming he stays healthy I don't see why he shouldn't accumulate 25+ goals across all competitions. If he fails to do so then we should seriously a consider a more resourceful forward the season after.

 

[Jed I. Knight]

No excuses this time really. He'll be our main CF with little competition, he'll no longer be forced into midfield and will this time have a potent midfield supplying him.

Assuming he stays healthy I don't see why he shouldn't accumulate 25+ goals across all competitions. If he fails to do so then we should seriously a consider a more resourceful forward the season after.

25 total should be the bare minimum expected from him, injuries notwithstanding. I think he'll get that, and more, quite comfortably, but if he doesn't we should definitely be looking for another top of the line striker to replace him come next summer.

 

[Escobar]

I can see him fail this season and become a big problem for us. His fitness level and form is always a question mark and the main reason he was never closer to Messi or Ronaldo

 

[Rozay]

I can see him fail this season and become a big problem for us. His fitness level and form is always a question mark and the main reason he was never closer to Messi or Ronaldo

One thing that also should be remembered is that Rooney's coming on for about 14 summers now. He's almost 30 as it is, but is also very high mileage. He's been playing top flight football, largely with a very high-octane style, since he was 16, involved in every summer tournament too.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

I thought he was meh in the first game, a bit better in this one. Overall his touch was good, his passing was pretty good, but you can tell he's treating the games as a way to get his fitness back (as other players are, and as they should) and not committing too much. Really hard to take much away from these so far, we're not even playing with the set up we'll likely be using for most games.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

It's early season now. Rooney always take some time to get started. 19 goals this season guaranteed.

He should aim higher.

 

[The-Natural]

Well here it is for you, Wayne, a season upfront as our main striker. Amaze us.

 

[Cassidy]

It's early season now. Rooney always take some time to get started. 19 goals this season guaranteed.

He needs to be aiming higher than that, else he will find himself on the bench/sold after this season

 

[Zen]

Guess it depends on how the goals around him go.....Lewandowski got away with Robben scoring more than him despite playing 10 less games. Can see Depay going double figures easy depending on his usage, Mata's a scorer though double figures could be a push. That's not including ADM, Young, Wilson, Adnan.....I'd like 50 from the forwards regardless if it's a defensive season in the Premiership or not.

 

[AttackingFlair]

I think Rooney looked good with his link play yesterday, nice little touches. The issue, is he just doesn't threaten the goal enough anymore. His natural instincts appear to be that of a midfield player. Depay, for instance, who plays deeper, has a greater instinct for scoring it seems. There will be more situations, half chances, scuffed shots etc where he is looking to actually threaten the goal. Rooney seems to do it once or twice a game.

I also think it is wrong for @AttackingFlair to show a video of Rooney finishing well 6 years ago and say 'surely he can still finish like that?'. In that case, we don't have to go back nearly as far and we could say the same of RVP.

And will the caf ever dispense of this theory that Rooney has basically spent his entire career in midfield, give or take the odd game, in which he probably scored 4 each time you would think. Rooney has predominantly been a striker for his entire career, sometimes on his own, sometimes with another striker (just as the likes of Suarez, Aguero, Henry have) - and on the grand scheme of things, has played in 'midfield' very, very fleetingly. You can't classify seasons where he played just behind RVN or Saha or Smith or whoever, with 4 actual midfielders behind him as 'playing in midfield', which is what people seem to be trying to do. Now he has apparently played up front for only 2 seasons in his career, which is absolute shite.

Anyway, back to 'performances', there were certainly positives in his game last night, but if we are to insist on playing him centre forward, we could definitely do with a Pedro or Bale to help out, as Rooney spends too much time as a creator. His touch was good against San Jose though. And I'd still back him to take a presentable chance if and when it falls to him. I just don't think the if and when will be frequent enough. It isn't his game for it do so. He isn't in scoring positions/situations often enough.

It was in a response to someone saying you need to beat players to score 30+ goals, I was just pointing out that you don't need to beat defenders 1 v 1 to score a lot of goals and the clip showed that. Nevertheless, I do feel that Rooney hasn't played number 9 consistently since that season and do feel that he's capable of converting those type of chances that 9s do usually get. The RVP comparison isn't right considering he's played as lead striker all the way throughout his United career, we actually haven't seen Rooney consistently as a 9 since 6 years ago. This year will be good to judge if he can still do it. But I'm not just going to assume that because he scored X amount of goals in a variety of roles that that ratio will be the same for him as a number 9; I don't think that would be a fair assessment. This season will be a fair assessment.

 

[Rozay]

It was in a response to someone saying you need to beat players to score 30+ goals, I was just pointing out that you don't need to beat defenders 1 v 1 to score a lot of goals and the clip showed that. Nevertheless, I do feel that Rooney hasn't played number 9 consistently since that season and do feel that he's capable of converting those type of chances that 9s do usually get. The RVP comparison isn't right considering he's played as lead striker all the way throughout his United career, we actually haven't seen Rooney consistently as a 9 since 6 years ago. This year will be good to judge if he can still do it. But I'm not just going to assume that because he scored X amount of goals in a variety of roles that that ratio will be the same for him as a number 9; I don't think that would be a fair assessment. This season will be a fair assessment.

So what exactly are we saying on the caf? I actually just want to clarify because I am genuinely confused by a lot of what I've read. Are we basically saying that Rooney has infact barely been a striker, and has played the large majority of his games for us in midfield?

 

[Stack]

So what exactly are we saying on the caf? I actually just want to clarify because I am genuinely confused by a lot of what I've read. Are we basically saying that Rooney has infact barely been a striker, and has played the large majority of his games for us in midfield?

Over the last 3 seasons he hasnt had many decent runs as a striker. He has been shifted around by 3 different managers. I think if he gets to play just as a striker for a decent run of games his form will improve and he will score goals for us. Its hard for anyone to be a 30 goals a season player when you are moved around as some sort of utitilty fix it man.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

So what exactly are we saying on the caf? I actually just want to clarify because I am genuinely confused by a lot of what I've read. Are we basically saying that Rooney has infact barely been a striker, and has played the large majority of his games for us in midfield?

How did you come that conclusion from the post you quoted? (or any other in this thread)

 

[Rozay]

How did you come that conclusion from the post you quoted? (or any other in this thread)

It has been a common topic of discussion for years of Rooney's 'sacrifice ' - when Ronaldo was here, the reality of Rooney playing a handful, two handfuls of games at best on the left wing has now turned into a 'he was shunted out to the wing for Ronnie' theory. I have read that the only two seasons that are fair to consider his output should be two seasons where he played as a 'number 9' and therefore got good goal returns. I don't think I fully get it tbh. If by that, we mean as a lone striker, then perhaps we mean that Rooney should only play up front in a 4-3-3. However, from my recollection Rooney has played in front of 4 actual midfielders for the majority of his career, so I just don't get the frequency to which his position is used to defend him on the caf. Be it with Ruud, Saha, Smith, Berbatov, Tevez or Van Persie - Rooney has pretty much always been onew of two strikers in a partnership for us. He has played a few games in actual midfield, but it is a really negligible amount for the amount of times it seems to be referenced.

To answer your question more directly, as I'm pretty sure I'll get a smart remark or whatever if I don't, the post I quoted said that Rooney hasn't played as a number 9 with any regularity for 6 years. It just causes me to wonder where exactly he's been playing then. Fair enough, he has not been up front on his own (and as someone who has followed his career, again, that is another myth that that was always some sort of consensus for being his best role, and anything else was a 'sacrifice '), but he has been one of two strikers. So yea, basically my last post was a result of a theme I had detected for years, is all.

I have read his good England record being used as an example a few times of late as to what he can achieve as a 'number 9', whatever that means in this context. Again, from my recollection, he is used no differently for England. He is largely one of two strikers, be it with Sturridge, Defoe, Carroll or whoever. There has always been a question of 'who partners Rooney upfront? '. If that is how he should be used, I see no difference to how he has largely been used for us in his career.

For me, the reality is, the main difference between the Rooney of today and whatever season anyone would choose to reference I'd the fact that he was probably a better footballer then. This notion that the only issue is that he has since been stopped from playing up front I'd bollocks, in my humble opinion. He is no less of a striker than the likes of Suarez, Sturridge, Aguero or Henry who were all one of two strikers in the PL. I just don't by the position argument, other than the games when he was actually told to line up either in the centre of the park or on the left, which are very few and far between.

 

[Rozay]

Over the last 3 seasons he hasnt had many decent runs as a striker. He has been shifted around by 3 different managers. I think if he gets to play just as a striker for a decent run of games his form will improve and he will score goals for us. Its hard for anyone to be a 30 goals a season player when you are moved around as some sort of utitilty fix it man.

Over the last season, he played games as an actual midfielder. Not really sure how that has turned into 3 seasons of him not really playing as a striker. Moyes had him and Persie up front, as did Fergie. Before, it was him and Hernandez.

 

[Stack]

Over the last season, he played games as an actual midfielder. Not really sure how that has turned into 3 seasons of him not really playing as a striker. Moyes had him and Persie up front, as did Fergie. Before, it was him and Hernandez.

you have a short memory dont you

 

[Rozay]

you have a short memory dont you

That is perhaps not untrue. Please help to refresh me though, I am genuinely open to reminding of these runs, which have spanned across years, of Rooney not playing as a striker. I may well have just forgotten.

 

[Stack]

That is perhaps not untrue. Please help to refresh me though, I am genuinely open to reminding of these runs, which have spanned across years, of Rooney not playing as a striker. I may well have just forgotten.

Rooney added: ‘Everyone at the club knew that’s where I wanted to play (up front) and that’s why I was disappointed because I got told to play in midfield and I didn’t want to. But I’d always go in and try to help the team, so I think there had to come a point where for my own career I had to be a bit selfish.

‘In the past I’ve had no problem playing out of position, but I felt I deserved to play in my position, which wasn’t happening. Naturally I was disappointed and maybe that affected some of the games I played. Maybe when I’m a bit older, losing my legs a bit, I can go back there (to midfield).’

From 2013, thats just from a quick google.

 

[Sandikan]

Rooney added: ‘Everyone at the club knew that’s where I wanted to play (up front) and that’s why I was disappointed because I got told to play in midfield and I didn’t want to. But I’d always go in and try to help the team, so I think there had to come a point where for my own career I had to be a bit selfish.

‘In the past I’ve had no problem playing out of position, but I felt I deserved to play in my position, which wasn’t happening. Naturally I was disappointed and maybe that affected some of the games I played. Maybe when I’m a bit older, losing my legs a bit, I can go back there (to midfield).’

From 2013, thats just from a quick google.

I love the idea that centre mid in the premier league is some kind of easy cruise mode position for those who have lost their legs!

 

[Rozay]

Rooney added: ‘Everyone at the club knew that’s where I wanted to play (up front) and that’s why I was disappointed because I got told to play in midfield and I didn’t want to. But I’d always go in and try to help the team, so I think there had to come a point where for my own career I had to be a bit selfish.

‘In the past I’ve had no problem playing out of position, but I felt I deserved to play in my position, which wasn’t happening. Naturally I was disappointed and maybe that affected some of the games I played. Maybe when I’m a bit older, losing my legs a bit, I can go back there (to midfield).’

From 2013, thats just from a quick google.

I remember those quotes now. I can't much remember the circumstances around them, but I guess he was put in midfield by Fergie around that time, who by all accounts no longer saw him as a top class striker and was open to selling. I don't doubt that Rooney has had games in midfield anyway, but I do think they are few and far between. Predominantly, he is one of two strikers for club and country, and has been his entire career.

 

[Stack]

I remember those quotes now. I can't much remember the circumstances around them, but I guess he was put in midfield by Fergie around that time, who by all accounts no longer saw him as a top class striker and was open to selling. I don't doubt that Rooney has had games in midfield anyway, but I do think they are few and far between. Predominantly, he is one of two strikers for club and country, and has been his entire career.

For most of his career yes, the point I am making is that in the last few seasons he has been shifted around. Last season especially so. People on here think he is past it, well I dont know if thats true yet simply because he hasnt been able to have a consistent run up front for a while. You cant tell me that last season he was given a consistent run up front. Even in games where he started up front he sometimes got moved to midfield to solve problems.

 

[Nighteyes]

The reason he hasn't played more as #9 for United in his career is because he simply isn't one. Oh he can play there and is a pretty good finisher more often than not and all said and done he'll probably rack up a decent goal tally but he just hasn't the instinct nor the game for a proper #9. The whole "Play Rooney up top and only up top" crusade is utterly baffling. Obviously, playing him as an actual midfielder or a DM is a bridge too far but he's quite blatantly a much better player when he plays slightly deeper. There's a reason multiple managers have all preferred to play him deeper despite the fact that he'd get a good goal tally if he played constantly as a striker.

 

[Rozay]

For most of his career yes, the point I am making is that in the last few seasons he has been shifted around. Last season especially so. People on here think he is past it, well I dont know if thats true yet simply because he hasnt been able to have a consistent run up front for a while. You cant tell me that last season he was given a consistent run up front. Even in games where he started up front he sometimes got moved to midfield to solve problems.

Oh I agree about last season. But I also think the way in which he was used last season stands out quite clearly, even amongst recent seasons. When Moyes came in, his first words (not literally) were about how he had to get Rooney and Persie playing together upfront consistently.

I do think he is past it, simply because I'm not much into making excuses for players, generally speaking. I can't accept that a player was a great player in 2009, and he hasn't been since then but there's mitigation. It may be slightly unfortunate, but you get judged on what you do, and what you don't do, ultimately. Will Keane has fair excuse for not looking as good as he once did, but that's neither here nor there, the fact is that he doesn't look as good as he once did. Probably not the best example considering the injury actually. Perhaps a better one was how, for years, I read 'we don't need to sign a new Scholes, we can sign X who can 'release Carrick ' who is not just a deep lyer, he can do it further forward etc'. Ultimately, whether or not that I'd true, Carrick will be judged on the career he actually had out on the pitch, and not a bunch of hypotheticals. If LVG continues to play Memphis up front and he flops, despite the caf insistence that he is a winger, when it's all said and done, he'll be judged on what he does.

For me, Rooney hasn't been a top class player other than the odd flash for 5 years. Whoever people want to 'blame' for that doesn't really matter to me. The fact is, he was the one out there, not being a top class player, while others have been out there being top class players. Therefore, when listing top class players, Wayne Rooney would not be included in the top class players, while the top class players would be called the top class players. It is all on him to go out and reclaim that status on the pitch, and if he does that, great for him and great for us. But for now, I will judge him as I see him, not based upon the unseen. And I don't see a great forward player when I watch him, not for a long while. Please believe me, if and when I do, I will say otherwise. I don't hate him!

The funny thing is you guys have no idea how I talk in real life to others, especially non supporters. I sound like the posts I read on here, I defend him to the hilt. It's sort of like how you won't criticise your children to outsiders, but on here, amongst family, I'm simply calling it as I see it.

 

[Escobar]

Terrible first touch, constantly destroying our play with it

 

[Varun]

First touch's been all over the place.

 

[lilcurt]

So many move break down because he has the first touch of a bulldozer. Really limits us when he is the focal point of the attack, this is why I hate that he's captain because he shouldn't be a guaranteed starter. We need to look for better.

 

[LARulz]

He's been shocking with the ball anywhere near his feet

 

[NK86]

First touch of a player who has never seen a football before. How poor can one's first touch be? He does not look good enough to lead our attack if we want to win the league.

 

[Kill 'em all]

Rooney's first touch and overall technique has become shocking over the past year. He keeps surprising me with every touch he takes. He just takes it on a whole new level.

 

[lilcurt]

Honestly thinking selling him a few years ago when he asked to leave would have been the best solution, we would have been forced to go out and replace him.

Now we're stuck with him as captain, starting whenever he's fit when truth be told he is nowhere near a top striker.

 

[SkeppyRed]

Sluggish Wayne is back. Let his fitness levels drop too low over the summer again.

If he stays injury free he should be sharp again by late september. In the meantime he will frustrate us all.

 

[Cheesy]

The reason he hasn't played more as #9 for United in his career is because he simply isn't one. Oh he can play there and is a pretty good finisher more often than not and all said and done he'll probably rack up a decent goal tally but he just hasn't the instinct nor the game for a proper #9. The whole "Play Rooney up top and only up top" crusade is utterly baffling. Obviously, playing him as an actual midfielder or a DM is a bridge too far but he's quite blatantly a much better player when he plays slightly deeper. There's a reason multiple managers have all preferred to play him deeper despite the fact that he'd get a good goal tally if he played constantly as a striker.

I sort of agree with you, although I think it also depends on his overall form. When Rooney's playing excellent football, he's a superb attacking midfielder and can be great at linking the attack and midfield. When his overall game is poor though (like tonight so far), and his touch is off, he can be a bit useless in behind the striker. In those cases, it's best to play him as more of an out and out striker, since he can still be a good goalscorer, even if his impact on the game is a bit more minimal.

 

[Kill 'em all]

Sluggish Wayne is back. Let his his fitness levels drop too low over the summer again.

If he stays injury free he should be sharp again by late september. In the meantime he will frustrate us all.

He had that kind of horrible touch for most of last season except for around 8 games.

 

[Shark]

He doesn't look fit and it's still pre-season. I'll judge him vs Spurs.

 

[Raees]

Hindrance aside from the goal.

 

[Mrs Smoker]

Astonishing goal!

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Has the first touch of a rapist.

 

[LR7]

I think he's been fine.