[Vilev]

The other questions are harder to answer but this one is easy, Ibra is a much better player than Rooney

Based on his career? I doubt it. If he was a better player he would not play in second-rate leagues. He was shining in Italy when it was hardly a competitive league. Inter was much stronger actually without him, even won the CL. Ibra was shipped out of Barca, cause he could not play at that level, the last 3-4 years he pays in France that is objectively a much worse league than PL or La Liga or Bundesliga. At international level he hardly done anything apart from flashy stuff, i am not telling him to carry Sweden to WC win, that's almost impossible thing to do. But then could not qualify for the last two WCs and their Euros campaign ended up before knock-out stages. So to present him as much better player on his career data is strange. He really is not. This year, last couple of year? Maybe, but again Ibra is playing in French league.

A change in team set up wont alter the fact Rooney's legs have gone, he has no pace, can't turn properly and can't run with the ball.

It's same for Ibra.

That is if Rooney has stayed up top as you suggest. Rooney has spent the last year gardening between the centre circle and the 18 yard box!

That is this year's stats. A kind of low base, low point ones.

 

[Devil may care]

Based on his career? I doubt it. If he was a better player he would not play in second-rate leagues. He was shining in Italy when it was hardly a competitive league. Inter was much stronger actually without him, even won the CL. Ibra was shipped out of Barca, cause he could not play at that level, the last 3-4 years he pays in France that is objectively a much worse league than PL or La Liga or Bundesliga. At international level he hardly done anything apart from flashy stuff, i am not telling him to carry Sweden to WC win, that's almost impossible thing to do. But then could not qualify for the last two WCs and their Euros campaign ended up before knock-out stages. So to present him as much better player on his career data is strange. He really is not. This year, last couple of year? Maybe, but again Ibra is playing in French league.

Ibra has won 12 league titles in the last 14 seasons, and the sense of playing the PL being superior is not really justified when you look at how terrible our teams have been in Europe over the last five years. Rooney has also never been the main man in any United team bar the ones that finished second, Ibra has been the main man wherever he has played. He didn't fail at Barca, they bought him and Pep had no idea how to use him properly, you don't buy Ibra without playing to him. Ibra has always been better but it's by a much wider margin over the last 4 years.

It's same for Ibra.

I can only assume that you haven't seen Ibra this season, he still has the power and agility to turn defenders and he can still dribble past them, Rooney is finished at the top level, a slow, technically poor lumberer who can't hold the ball up and who is only still around due to politics.

 

[Vilev]

Ibra has won 12 league titles in the last 14 seasons, and the sense of playing the PL being superior is not really justified when you look at how terrible our teams have been in Europe over the last five years.

And French clubs were any better? Look at UEFA coefficient. England's one is 75 and France one is 53, last 5 years if you don't know. PSG is a good club, but everyone else is hardly competitive. So winning french league with PSG is hardly an achievement at all. And how many of those Ibra's titles were in corrupted Serie A, when Inter collected titles when other top clubs were hit with sanctions and restrictions? And how did italian clubs did then in Europe? What you should do is actually look at reletive league strength when Ibra played in them. If you'll do that, you will find that the only time when Ibra played in a league that was superior to PL is when he was at Barca and when he failed miserable. Gone after a year.
And has Ibra ever delivered in CL? No. His Inter was a flop in europe, he could not make it in Baca team either. So much for the "better player" and a main man.

He didn't fail at Barca

He did. He could not deliver and when he left Barca retained CL. And Inter won CL without Ibra. Hardly a coincidence.

I can only assume that you haven't seen Ibra this season, he still has the power and agility to turn defenders and he can still dribble past them, Rooney is finished at the top level, a slow, technically poor lumberer who can't hold the ball up and who is only still around due to politics.

Yes, he does it quite well in France. In CL it's pretty much obvious that he relies on his technique, power and his agility is lacking. Especially compared even with just averagely fast players like Cavani.
And he is much older.

But all that aside, because he is different type of player, different type of CF to Rooney, i think he may do better here. He may, but i think it's not likely he will go here in the first place, and then if he will go here, i would not count him as the best option. I think if we fo for top CF, we need to go for somebody like Benzema, Cavani or even a bit younger options. I don't if we can get them, but swapping Rooney for Ibra who will be 35 next season and never played in PL is hardly inspiring and low-risk. Even on a free transfer.

 

[Devil may care]

And French clubs were any better? Look at UEFA coefficient. England's one is 75 and France one is 53, last 5 years if you don't know. PSG is a good club, but everyone else is hardly competitive. So winning french league with PSG is hardly an achievement at all. And how many of those Ibra's titles were in corrupted Serie A, when Inter collected titles when other top clubs were hit with sanctions and restrictions? And how did italian clubs did then in Europe? What you should do is actually look at reletive league strength when Ibra played in them. If you'll do that, you will find that the only time when Ibra played in a league that was superior to PL is when he was at Barca and when he failed miserable. Gone after a year.
And has Ibra ever delivered in CL? No. His Inter was a flop in europe, he could not make it in Baca team either. So much for the "better player" and a main man.
He did. He could not deliver and when he left Barca retained CL. And Inter won CL without Ibra. Hardly a coincidence.

I can't see how this argument works at all man, you are basically discounting everything he has achieved based on your personal judgment regarding the leagues, how about actually looking at the players and their qualities and performances, that shows you who has the superior set of skills, who has the greater impact and who is the better player. If Barca had made Ibra the center of the team he'd have delivered just fine, but Pep brought him into the land of Hobbit's and didn't play to his strengths, it would be like buying a prime Michael Owen and then playing a long ball style, it made no sense and showed Pep had no idea how to execute an alternative gameplan to his pass it into oblivion tactic.

Yes, he does it quite well in France. In CL it's pretty much obvious that he relies on his technique, power and his agility is lacking. Especially compared even with just averagely fast players like Cavani.
And he is much older.

I don't think that is true at all, he took Chelsea apart quite easily in the CL just a couple of weeks ago, and that was without even being at his very best.

But all that aside, because he is different type of player, different type of CF to Rooney, i think he may do better here. He may, but i think it's not likely he will go here in the first place, and then if he will go here, i would not count him as the best option. I think if we fo for top CF, we need to go for somebody like Benzema, Cavani or even a bit younger options. I don't if we can get them, but swapping Rooney for Ibra who will be 35 next season and never played in PL is hardly inspiring and low-risk. Even on a free transfer.

Benzema is a scumbag, I doubt the club would look at him now, especially given all our sponsorship deals. Cavani is very average, and ironically his success has been in leagues that you discredited Ibra's achievements in and he was never as good as Ibra in either Serie A or Ligue 1. The reason replacing Rooney with Ibra makes sense is Ibra is comfortably better than Rooney and he's at an age where we can get a couple of seasons out of him and not hamper the long term progress of Martial and Rashford.

 

[dichinero]

And French clubs were any better? Look at UEFA coefficient. England's one is 75 and France one is 53, last 5 years if you don't know. PSG is a good club, but everyone else is hardly competitive. So winning french league with PSG is hardly an achievement at all. And how many of those Ibra's titles were in corrupted Serie A, when Inter collected titles when other top clubs were hit with sanctions and restrictions? And how did italian clubs did then in Europe? What you should do is actually look at reletive league strength when Ibra played in them. If you'll do that, you will find that the only time when Ibra played in a league that was superior to PL is when he was at Barca and when he failed miserable. Gone after a year.
And has Ibra ever delivered in CL? No. His Inter was a flop in europe, he could not make it in Baca team either. So much for the "better player" and a main man.
He did. He could not deliver and when he left Barca retained CL. And Inter won CL without Ibra. Hardly a coincidence.
Yes, he does it quite well in France. In CL it's pretty much obvious that he relies on his technique, power and his agility is lacking. Especially compared even with just averagely fast players like Cavani.
And he is much older.

But all that aside, because he is different type of player, different type of CF to Rooney, i think he may do better here. He may, but i think it's not likely he will go here in the first place, and then if he will go here, i would not count him as the best option. I think if we fo for top CF, we need to go for somebody like Benzema, Cavani or even a bit younger options. I don't if we can get them, but swapping Rooney for Ibra who will be 35 next season and never played in PL is hardly inspiring and low-risk. Even on a free transfer.

I have to disagree with you about him being a flop at Barca. It was well documented that he fell out with Pep from the get go and despite that he has a decent goal scoring record.

Yes, he relies on his technique, power and agility; something that Rooney can only currently dream of. Even at 35, he is still s superior player to this 30 year old Rooney that plays like a 36 year old. You really underestimating Ibra's ability, regardless of whether he played in France or not. There is a reason why his fellow professional and coaches regard him as one of the best in the FIFA XI polls.

 

[SteveJ]

We might go for Ibra just for the commercial benefits. I'm not so much worried about fielding Zlatan himself; rather, our lack of chance-creation by others for him.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Why the hell is Rooney's career being compared to Iba's? There's been a huge gap between for a while now and that's what matters. Only a fool would prefer Rooney now.

 

[Cassidy]

And Ibra at 34-35 is better? I doubt it. And can we get him? It will take a massive salary and signing-on fee for him to even consider United and still i would not rate our chances of doing the deal above 50%.
As for Rooney, i would like to see how he will do in a properly structured team. The sole fact that Rooney is leading in terms of creativity and scroring in league is telling me, that in a more direct, attacking side he could do much better.

But if we get Ibra and then a good AM/RW i am not against letting Rooney go. However given how our transfers went in the last years i think that would not happen.

Seriously, where have you been the last 4 years. Yes Ibra is clearly better.

Also his salary won't be much more than what Rooney is on now, and we can get a fee for Rooney also so the cost will be not much. That could buy us a season to find another long term striker whilst we also wait on the development of Martial Rashford and Wilson.

You only have to watch Rooney the last 3 years to see his decline, yes the team doesn't help but how many chances has Martial put on a plate for him this season when that he has fluffed..... we seriously need to move on IMO and the sooner the better.

 

[Perrick Dubois]

Fergie was clearly gearing up to get rid of Rooney in 2013. He dropped him from the biggest game of the season, stuck him in central midfield when the title was virtually won and then for his last game at OT dropped him completely from the squad and then revealed he'd asked to leave.

He left it on a plate for Moyes to come in and get rid. But of course Davey had other ideas, terrible ideas. Like giving Rooney that contract.

I think this particular myth that Fergie was getting ready to get rid of Rooney has been born out of the embellishment of the word "dropped" in this scenario. When reality it was after a credible performance marking Alonso in the first leg that led SAF to put Rooney on the bench (much different to being dropped I think we can all agree) in place of two players who could play off the shoulder in front of Welbeck dropping deep in Van Persie and Nani. At the Santiago Bernabéu Fergie opted for your typical away set up where Welbeck dropped onto Alonso to pressure him and Rooney was drifting right to help out the fullbacks. (Swung in a great corner for Danny to nod home in style I believe). The lineup with Van Persie who missed a couple of really good chances in that tie was a much more attacking lineup at home and the fact that he went for Giggs in a midfield three says a lot. For tactical reasons I believe Rooney couldn't quite make that team due to Welbeck's role on Alonso. He came off the bench after Nani was sent off with not really much room to influence.

I also remember that contract negotiations were ongoing around that time as he was approaching the end of his deal. The negotiations carried over into the Moyes season and there was no way in hell he was going to get rid of Rooney and not tie him to a contract. Trying to dump that on Moyes quite simply is a reach to far and revision of hindsight to suit that agenda. (Not that I am defending Moyes, take pot shots at him by all means I don't mind.)

It did appear that Rooney was pulling that carbon copy strop in his contract negotiations which is why SAF made it public very early in the piece. A savvy move by the gaff at the time, he knew the score. Moyes came in, Rooney signed the deal and the rest is history. He has a genuine shot at breaking the EPL top scorer's and United top scorers record in the next three years at United. Even if he leaves to another EPL club and breaks the all time scorers record to go above Shearer will be an incredible feat.

Why the hell is Rooney's career being compared to Iba's? There's been a huge gap between for a while now and that's what matters. Only a fool would prefer Rooney now.

I am not sure either, Rooney has never played outside England and Ibra has never played in England. It would be like cashing out a bet when up a couple of hundred quid or taking the "mystery prize" who knows how well Ibra would do in England.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Guess who's back? Back again
Rooney's back. Tell a friend.



Thanks to Marcus Rashford for his efforts.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Mr. Manchester United is back

 

[Adisa]

Captain Fantastic.

 

[Devil may care]

He should Captain the U21's for the rest of the season.

 

[clarkydaz]

He might release a public statement with concerns about the u21s team hours before kick off

 

[ocprodigy]

Does anyone recall a few seasons back when we laughed at the Dippers for playing on Gerrard even though it was clear he wasn't good enough anymore?

They debated on RAWK while we laughed and said we would have dropped him without fear.

Well...

 

[LeftyBlaster]

yay..... not.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Oh good.

 

[Perrick Dubois]

Glad he's warming up in the 21's, he takes a bit of time to get his fitness up.

 

[Dobbs]

Going to be very interesting to see how he does at U21 level. Given his status, wage, reputation should be miles ahead of everyone else on the pitch.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Going to be very interesting to see how he does at U21 level. Given his status, wage, reputation should be miles ahead of everyone else on the pitch.

Should be. Funny how he was slated to play against Chelsea but for some reason wasn't ready... probably didn't fancy those strong quick Chelsea defenders. Instead though he's now got bottom of the table middlesborough

All jokes aside I hope he smashes 5 against them and proves he is raring to go, but I feel it'll just be like Falcao - not looking out of place against very average players.

 

[Black Adder]

Going to be very interesting to see how he does at U21 level. Given his status, wage, reputation should be miles ahead of everyone else on the pitch.

It's all about fitness level and match rhythm, not him trying to prove someone he's better than U21 players.

 

[iKeano]

It's all about fitness level and match rhythm, not him trying to prove someone he's better than U21 players.

It's irrelevant.

Jones played last Monday, he looked out of breath after 5 mins, off the pace by miles, uncomfortable (as ever) on the ball, lost when off the ball, ran ragged by some Chelsea kids, nutmegged TWICE for fun like a drunk in the park joining in with the kids taking the pi55, hauled off after 76mins to ironic cheers from the predominantly young crowd. Yet after all that, Luis says he might feature against Spurs!?

It doesn't matter what sorted shift pie-face puts in on Monday. His coach, adopted Dutch father & blindsided lover LVG, will move heaven and earth (I.e. Rashford) to get Waynetta back in the team, slowing down play & being ineffective. Still... £300+K a week...

 

[Black Adder]

It's irrelevant.

Jones played last Monday, he looked out of breath after 5 mins, off the pace by miles, uncomfortable (as ever) on the ball, lost when off the ball, ran ragged by some Chelsea kids, nutmegged TWICE for fun like a drunk in the park joining in with the kids taking the pi55, hauled off after 76mins to ironic cheers from the predominantly young crowd. Yet after all that, Luis says he might feature against Spurs!?

It doesn't matter what sorted shift pie-face puts in on Monday. His coach, adopted Dutch father & blindsided lover LVG, will move heaven and earth (I.e. Rashford) to get Waynetta back in the team, slowing down play & being ineffective. Still... £300+K a week...

I was kind of expecting Jones to put performance like that, he's been out so long, and even when healthy didn't look like proper defender, don't think he'll ever make it as elite footballer. Shame really, was hoping for him to become great defender, but seems like he'll make it as professional patient instead.

As for Rooney, people were expecting him to be dropped when LVG first arrived, now seems like he's manager favorite player, that's why I don't think he'll give his 150%, he'll do just about enough so that LVG has excuse to put him back in the team.

 

[Perrick Dubois]

It's all about fitness level and match rhythm, not him trying to prove someone he's better than U21 players.

The way the u21's have been playing (style wise I mean, not form) will suit Rooney. Fast and sharp decisive movement is beneficial. It still is a run out, Jones looked incredibly unfit and I would think Rooney would be the same.

edit: Oh right, that is mentioned above.

 

[clarkydaz]

It's irrelevant.

Jones played last Monday, he looked out of breath after 5 mins, off the pace by miles, uncomfortable (as ever) on the ball, lost when off the ball, ran ragged by some Chelsea kids, nutmegged TWICE for fun like a drunk in the park joining in with the kids taking the pi55, hauled off after 76mins to ironic cheers from the predominantly young crowd. Yet after all that, Luis says he might feature against Spurs!?

It doesn't matter what sorted shift pie-face puts in on Monday. His coach, adopted Dutch father & blindsided lover LVG, will move heaven and earth (I.e. Rashford) to get Waynetta back in the team, slowing down play & being ineffective. Still... £300+K a week...

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

It's irrelevant.

Jones played last Monday, he looked out of breath after 5 mins, off the pace by miles, uncomfortable (as ever) on the ball, lost when off the ball, ran ragged by some Chelsea kids, nutmegged TWICE for fun like a drunk in the park joining in with the kids taking the pi55, hauled off after 76mins to ironic cheers from the predominantly young crowd. Yet after all that, Luis says he might feature against Spurs!?

It doesn't matter what sorted shift pie-face puts in on Monday. His coach, adopted Dutch father & blindsided lover LVG, will move heaven and earth (I.e. Rashford) to get Waynetta back in the team, slowing down play & being ineffective. Still... £300+K a week...

Do people still believe Rooney was/is the reason our play is so slow and labored? Have you not watched the games since he's been out? We've not been anything special, and have still struggled to score goals, scoring only 5 in our last 6 games.

 

[Sandikan]

Do people still believe Rooney was/is the reason our play is so slow and labored? Have you not watched the games since he's been out? We've not been anything special, and have still struggled to score goals, scoring only 5 in our last 6 games.

Anyone who quotes 300k as though it's truth is never going to let the truth get in the way of their argument!
It's down to VG how we play. All our attackers would look better for another manager. How much so, is another debate, but in the majority the style this season has been cautious.

A win tomorrow, and top 4 is a big chance again. And we'll back it until the last day.
But next season we need different.

 

[Devil may care]

It's not that Rooney slows down our play it's that he's so sluggish and poor at protecting the ball these days that he stops any kind of transition into attack most of the time, he either miss-controls it or simply pushes it back where it came from, he can't turn and put us on the front foot as the touch and agility isn't there.

 

[Treble]

Do people still believe Rooney was/is the reason our play is so slow and labored? Have you not watched the games since he's been out? We've not been anything special, and have still struggled to score goals, scoring only 5 in our last 6 games.

Two quick points. First, we tend to win more points in the EPL without Rooney, he makes no difference nowadays. When Rooney got injured we were 6 points off 4th, now we are only 1 point off 4th. His absence was a blessing in disguise, surely? Second, Rooney fans struggle to grasp a fairly simple concept: we don't play much better without Rooney partly because we didn't buy enough quality because of Rooney: he is a guaranteed starter for us. Now we rely on Rashford who was barely known just 2 months ago and who did more in 6-7 games (winners against Arsenal and City away) than Rooney in 25 games. Rooney is easily the most overrated star out there.

 

[Snow]

Do people still believe Rooney was/is the reason our play is so slow and labored? Have you not watched the games since he's been out? We've not been anything special, and have still struggled to score goals, scoring only 5 in our last 6 games.

We've not been any worse without him and we've been better after Rashford started playing. We've been better in attack with Rashford than we were with Rooney.

It really is a moment for Rooney to step up. United need to get 4th, he needs to show he's still got it for the Euros because Kane and Vardy have both been very good the whole season. He just gotta be hungry now. If he doesn't show that then I will think that he's finished.

 

[wr8_utd]

Do people still believe Rooney was/is the reason our play is so slow and labored? Have you not watched the games since he's been out? We've not been anything special, and have still struggled to score goals, scoring only 5 in our last 6 games.

Nonsense. Rashford is better than Rooney and we've been playing like Barcelona since Wayne has been out. It was obviously all his fault.

 

[wr8_utd]

We've not been any worse without him and we've been better after Rashford started playing. We've been better in attack with Rashford than we were with Rooney.

It really is a moment for Rooney to step up. United need to get 4th, he needs to show he's still got it for the Euros because Kane and Vardy have both been very good the whole season. He just gotta be hungry now. If he doesn't show that then I will think that he's finished.

Even besides the goals, Rooney was playing well ever since the Stoke game till he got injured. Yes there was the odd game where he was absolutely woeful (Anfield) and yet he got the match winner there. He struggles after injury so I'm not very sure we'll see a very good Rooney and our attack is pretty rubbish as well so that doesn't help but hopefully we'll get to see Martial and Rashford both play close to Rooney and not the labored, slow nonsense we play with Fellaini, Mata etc.

 

[wr8_utd]

Two quick points. First, we tend to win more points in the EPL without Rooney, he makes no difference nowadays. When Rooney got injured we were 6 points off 4th, now we are only 1 point off 4th. His absence was a blessing in disguise, surely? Second, Rooney fans struggle to grasp a fairly simple concept: we don't play much better without Rooney partly because we didn't buy enough quality because of Rooney: he is a guaranteed starter for us. Now we rely on Rashford who was barely known just 2 months ago and who did more in 6-7 games (winners against Arsenal and City away) than Rooney in 25 games. Rooney is easily the most overrated star out there.

City going on a woeful run of form has nothing to do with this obviously.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

We've not been any worse without him and we've been better after Rashford started playing. We've been better in attack with Rashford than we were with Rooney.

It really is a moment for Rooney to step up. United need to get 4th, he needs to show he's still got it for the Euros because Kane and Vardy have both been very good the whole season. He just gotta be hungry now. If he doesn't show that then I will think that he's finished.

Our best attacking performance, which I personally feel was against Stoke, came with Rooney uptop. Also, we can't just look at the fact Rashford come into the team. Martial has gone back onto the wing, where he's a lot more effective, in my opinion, and Lingard has gone in behind the forward, which has created variation our our play.

 

[Snow]

Our best attacking performance, which I personally feel was against Stoke, came with Rooney uptop. Also, we can't just look at the fact Rashford come into the team. Martial has gone back onto the wing, where he's a lot more effective, in my opinion, and Lingard has gone in behind the forward, which has created variation our our play.

Lingard has played 2 games behind the forward and in neither of those games was our attacking game above average.

One game against Stoke doesn't bring up the average much. Fact is that he hasn't been good this season, he hasn't even outplayed 3 players in their first season who are all much younger. That's a concern.

 

[Snow]

Even besides the goals, Rooney was playing well ever since the Stoke game till he got injured. Yes there was the odd game where he was absolutely woeful (Anfield) and yet he got the match winner there. He struggles after injury so I'm not very sure we'll see a very good Rooney and our attack is pretty rubbish as well so that doesn't help but hopefully we'll get to see Martial and Rashford both play close to Rooney and not the labored, slow nonsense we play with Fellaini, Mata etc.

You thought he played well against Chelsea and Sunderland? Those are our only games "since the Stoke game".

19 of our league games before new years, he played 6 winners. He provided 1 assist and scored 2 goals in those 15 games he played in. He's got less than 5 good games this season which is why people have been on his back this season. Some people were actually glad when he got injured because his performances this season have been so weak and that it was the only way to get him out of the starting lineup.

 

[Treble]

City going on a woeful run of form has nothing to do with this obviously.

If City had won their home game against us, the difference would have been 7 points! Rashford's winner made a huge difference. So, yeah, we are doing fine without Rooney. I'm not sure the positive trend will continue when he returns in the starting XI.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Lingard has played 2 games behind the forward and in neither of those games was our attacking game above average.

One game against Stoke doesn't bring up the average much. Fact is that he hasn't been good this season, he hasn't even outplayed 3 players in their first season who are all much younger. That's a concern.

What games have we looked above average going forward?

One game or not, it was amongst our best performance this season and Rooney was in it, meaning he can and has produced the goods.

 

[itso 7]

Even besides the goals, Rooney was playing well ever since the Stoke game till he got injured. Yes there was the odd game where he was absolutely woeful (Anfield) and yet he got the match winner there. He struggles after injury so I'm not very sure we'll see a very good Rooney and our attack is pretty rubbish as well so that doesn't help but hopefully we'll get to see Martial and Rashford both play close to Rooney and not the labored, slow nonsense we play with Fellaini, Mata etc.

You admit that he struggles after injury yet go on to claim that other players should be moved around to accommodate him, why shouldn't he find form and fitness playing with the reserves like others have had to do? This cuddling and too much reverence is what has brought on the complacency that prevented him from reaching his full potential and now sees his roles at both club and country being questioned as if he is thirty-five instead of thirty, its all too comfortable.