[Bobcat]

I really wonder what reason Van Gaal has for playing him there (midfield). Pretty much everyone talks about how poor hes been there, so why keep it up? Is it to shoehorn RvP and Falcao into the side? It's mental, because right now, neither of them deserve to be starting. Next game i would like to see

-----Defence + DDG-----
-----Blind-----Herrera----
Januzaj---Mata----ADM--
----------Rooney---------

4231 or 4411.

 

[Devil may care]

LvG's latest comments make it pretty clear he doesn't rate Fellaini or Herrera all that highly as CM's. I don't think it says much about how he sees Mata though as Mata is not a CM. I'd also say the fact he had Rooney and Herrera play so deep suggests he has very little faith in the CB's and in truth they haven't given him any reason to trust them.

I think people are going from one extreme to the other though pushing Rooney all the way up to a pure #9 role, he's only played there one season and has said numerous times he likes a deeper, second striker role, hence why he seemed to enjoy the partnership with Hernandez so much.

 

[LeftyBlaster]

LvG's latest comments make it pretty clear he doesn't rate Fellaini or Herrera all that highly as CM's. I don't think it says much about how he sees Mata though as Mata is not a CM. I'd also say the fact he had Rooney and Herrera play so deep suggests he has very little faith in the CB's and in truth they haven't given him any reason to trust them.

I think people are going from one extreme to the other though pushing Rooney all the way up to a pure #9 role, he's only played there one season and has said numerous times he likes a deeper, second striker role, hence why he seemed to enjoy the partnership with Hernandez so much.

To be fair on the centre backs. The whole decision not to use our actual midfielders places so much more onus on them. It affects their performance. If we actually played a real midfield that could contest the middle instead of this bizarre line up that makes it non-existent, the pressure on the defence would be so much less. Right now we subject them to unnecessary threat because we play a midfield line up that can't control the tempo or screen the back line.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

LvG's latest comments make it pretty clear he doesn't rate Fellaini or Herrera all that highly as CM's. I don't think it says much about how he sees Mata though as Mata is not a CM. I'd also say the fact he had Rooney and Herrera play so deep suggests he has very little faith in the CB's and in truth they haven't given him any reason to trust them.

I think people are going from one extreme to the other though pushing Rooney all the way up to a pure #9 role, he's only played there one season and has said numerous times he likes a deeper, second striker role, hence why he seemed to enjoy the partnership with Hernandez so much.

Link?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

To be fair on the centre backs. The whole decision not to use our actual midfielders places so much more onus on them. It affects their performance. If we actually played a real midfield that could contest the middle instead of this bizarre line up that makes it non-existent, the pressure on the defence would be so much less. Right now we subject them to unnecessary threat because we play a midfield line up that can't control the tempo or screen the back line.

Who are the members of this fantasy midfield lineup that can control the tempo and screen the back line?

 

[Cassidy]

To be fair on the centre backs. The whole decision not to use our actual midfielders places so much more onus on them. It affects their performance. If we actually played a real midfield that could contest the middle instead of this bizarre line up that makes it non-existent, the pressure on the defence would be so much less. Right now we subject them to unnecessary threat because we play a midfield line up that can't control the tempo or screen the back line.

This is what baffles me.

 

[LeftyBlaster]

Who are the members of this fantasy midfield lineup that can control the tempo and screen the back line?

Good grief Pogue you're testing my patience here. Are you on your period or what? As it is right now Rooney's lack of positional awareness both in defence and link up really hurt us. This isnt helped when we play Di Maria and Januzaj who are purely offensive players alongside him. Playing Blind at the base of midfield seems more like a token effort to make our line up resemble a proper midfield. Having players like Ander, Carrick and yes Fellaini who an actually hold up the ball and know how to position themselves would go a long way towards establishing some control.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

The really annoying thing is that as well as Rooney not being a midfielder and as a result really struggling since he's having to play in central midfield, the fact is we could really do with him up front.

What ever else you might think of Rooney, he's still a really good finisher and he'd be more mobile and dynamic up front than RVP and Falcao.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Good grief Pogue you're testing my patience here. Are you on your period or what? As it is right now Rooney's lack of positional awareness both in defence and link up really hurt us. This isnt helped when we play Di Maria and Januzaj who are purely offensive players alongside him. Playing Blind at the base of midfield seems more like a token effort to make our line up resemble a proper midfield. Having players like Ander, Carrick and yes Fellaini who an actually hold up the ball and know how to position themselves would go a long way towards establishing some control.

That really tested your patience?!? Sure you're not the one feeling hormonal?

Carrick's been crocked for almost the whole season but we played our best football when he was fit so yeah, having him in the team definitely helps. Feck all use when he's not playing, mind you. Fellaini gives us a lot more presence but controlling the tempo and screening the backline are probably the two weakest aspects of his game.

Which leaves us with Hererra and Blind. Blind has been great but isn't the quickest and won't win many headers in midfield. Herrera loves getting forward and seems more comfortable as a 10 than playing any deeper. They're both handy players to have (especially Blind, who seems to have adapted to the PL much quicker than Hererra) but it's obvious to me that our options in central midfield are a long way short of where they should be. Especially when you compare them to the teams ahead of us in the league. We've a bunch of players with different qualities but are clearly missing a touch of class and it's no surprise that we haven't found a settled and effective midfield combination this season.

 

[SammyUnited_83]

The really annoying thing is that as well as Rooney not being a midfielder and as a result really struggling since he's having to play in central midfield, the fact is we could really do with him up front.

What ever else you might think of Rooney, he's still a really good finisher and he'd be more mobile and dynamic up front than RVP and Falcao.

IF we buy a top class midfielder in the summer, can we see Rooney being played more forward next year, just in behind a (new) striker?

 

[LeftyBlaster]

That really tested your patience?!? Sure you're not the one feeling hormonal?

Carrick's been crocked for almost the whole season but we played our best football when he was fit so yeah, having him in the team definitely helps. Feck all use when he's not playing, mind you. Fellaini gives us a lot more presence but controlling the tempo and screening the backline are probably the two weakest aspects of his game.

Which leaves us with Hererra and Blind. Blind has been great but isn't the quickest and won't win many headers in midfield. Herrera loves getting forward and seems more comfortable as a 10 than playing any deeper. They're both handy players to have (especially Blind, who seems to have adapted to the PL much quicker than Hererra) but it's obvious to me that our options in central midfield are a long way short of where they should be. Especially when you compare them to the teams ahead of us in the league. We've a bunch of players with different qualities but are clearly missing a touch of class and it's no surprise that we haven't found a settled and effective midfield combination this season.

It was that and another thread.

Anyway. Yes Blind isn't the quickest, but like Carrick, his awareness more than makes up for it. Both of them are very good at closing off passing lanes with their positioning and their anticipation allows them to get on opponents quickly enough. I'll grant you that Fellaini isn't the best at screening the back line but that's what Blind and Carrick are there for. They, however, require other players like Fellaini and Ander for the presence and intelligence required in the middle. Ander looks to prefer to roam and keep himself around the ball wherever it is IMO. He's a very good mobile creator who offers us excellent vision and movement. Not sure why we can't play Blind/Carrick, Ander, Di Maria and Fellaini together in midfield. It pisses me off to no end that we're trying to shoehorn Falcao, RVP and Rooney. Personally, Falcao should be dropped without a second thought. Rooney needs to be playing up front.

I agree that this still leaves us far short when compared to the teams ahead of us. We could bring in better midfielders but the concerning thing is how we would use them. We already have a decent midfield and yet we're choosing to feck around with our selection and our play style.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It was that and another thread.

Anyway. Yes Blind isn't the quickest, but like Carrick, his awareness more than makes up for it. Both of them are very good at closing off passing lanes with their positioning and their anticipation allows them to get on opponents quickly enough. I'll grant you that Fellaini isn't the best at screening the back line but that's what Blind and Carrick are there for. They, however, require other players like Fellaini and Ander for the presence and intelligence required in the middle. Ander looks to prefer to roam and keep himself around the ball wherever it is IMO. He's a very good mobile creator who offers us excellent vision and movement. Not sure why we can't play Blind/Carrick, Ander, Di Maria and Fellaini together in midfield. It pisses me off to no end that we're trying to shoehorn Falcao, RVP and Rooney. Personally, Falcao should be dropped without a second thought. Rooney needs to be playing up front.

I agree that this still leaves us far short when compared to the teams ahead of us. We could bring in better midfielders but the concerning thing is how we would use them. We already have a decent midfield and yet we're choosing to feck around with our selection and our play style.

See I'd agree with almost all of that. Especially the bit about dropping Falcao. Although I can understand why he's giving him every chance to prove himself. Partly because he was a monster of a player fairly recently and is still only 28, partly because Mendes kicked up an almighty fuss when Falcao was dropped earlier on in the season and we're trying to keep him sweet so we can get De Gea's new contract across the line.

 

[NK86]

See I'd agree with almost all of that. Especially the bit about dropping Falcao. Although I can understand why he's giving him every chance to prove himself. Partly because he was a monster of a player fairly recently and is still only 28, partly because Mendes kicked up an almighty fuss when Falcao was dropped earlier on in the season and we're trying to keep him sweet so we can get De Gea's new contract across the line.

Worry with that is DDG may not sign before the end of the season for other reasons. I think IF this is a major reason for playing Falcao, then we should grow a pair and drop him to try out different personnel in his position.

 

[LeftyBlaster]

See I'd agree with almost all of that. Especially the bit about dropping Falcao. Although I can understand why he's giving him every chance to prove himself. Partly because he was a monster of a player fairly recently and is still only 28, partly because Mendes kicked up an almighty fuss when Falcao was dropped earlier on in the season and we're trying to keep him sweet so we can get De Gea's new contract across the line.

I can see LVG holding out for Falcao to help him find his form. But the problem goes deeper than that. Our "style of play" doesn't exactly help Falcao rediscover form either because we're not putting chances out for him. Heck we're not even playing attacking football for any striker to benefit on a regular basis. I'd imagine Falcao would have much less of a problem getting back to his monster mode if he was in Costa's position at Chelsea.

Louis' philosophy, so called, is the root of most of our problems. I'd prefer it if he just told us to be more direct and stopped with the bizarre line ups.

 

[Stack]

Found these links on Facebook group:

http://imgur.com/a/rf7Zc



Not trying to defend Falcao. Rooney is very negative in midfield and seemingly the only forward pass is his infamous diagonal which every full back reads.

Have a good look at that video again and check where Falcao is when Rooney receives the ball. Falcao is 2-3 meters offside at that moment. Rooney got it exactly right. That example is a very poor one to use.

 

[Orton]

The guy at the top is playing Falcao on.

 

[Stack]

The guy at the top is playing Falcao on.

Watch the footage of the game again on a full sized screen and you will see that Falcao is 2-3 meters offside when Rooney first receives the ball. I thought the same as you when I watched the gif but went and watched the full sized replay and its really clear. Rooney chose the right option.

 

[matherto]

Falcao wouldn't have gotten to a through ball anyway.

Depressing that Wayne didn't try it though.

 

[Orton]

He probably wouldn't have, but then it's a pass that Di Maria, januzaj and Herrera would try. I'd say Rooneys probably told to keep it simple but he tries cross field balls quite often and they barely come off anymore.

 

[Stack]

He probably wouldn't have, but then it's a pass that Di Maria, januzaj and Herrera would try. I'd say Rooneys probably told to keep it simple but he tries cross field balls quite often and they barely come off anymore.

The thing I realise I should have clarified earlier is that the point people are making about us being too safe and cautious I completely agree with, just dont think this is a fair example

 

[Orton]

The thing I realise I should have clarified earlier is that the point people are making about us being too safe and cautious I completely agree with, just dont think this is a fair example

Some players do try to express themselves more. Some say LVG is stifling the creative players and in some ways it's true when Rooney is passing sideways and backwards all the time and Herrera, Mata are sitting on the bench but Januzaj, Di Maria still try things. Unless they are given permission to take more risks.

 

[mumbai_red]

Have a good look at that video again and check where Falcao is when Rooney receives the ball. Falcao is 2-3 meters offside at that moment. Rooney got it exactly right. That example is a very poor one to use.

Fair enough. I'm not going to look for the video so I'll take your word for it. While it might be a poor example, this sort of thing happens a lot when I can see the pass on telly and Rooney turns around and plays it back to the defender.

In fact, more than a criticism of Rooney, I'm beginning to wonder if that is the specific job that he's asked to do; it probably explains why Herrera who is a more forward thinking player is benched.

 

[Mrs Smoker]

...I can see the pass on telly and Rooney turns around and plays it back to the defender.

You kinda do have a better view though.

 

[NessunDorma]

Found these links on Facebook group:

http://imgur.com/a/rf7Zc



Not trying to defend Falcao. Rooney is very negative in midfield and seemingly the only forward pass is his infamous diagonal which every full back reads.

Lord save us from people with a video editing package and a penchant for Big Massive Arrows.

It's all just so simple when you can watch the play over and over again, in isolation, and in slow motion, isn't it?

 

[Nighteyes]

Some players do try to express themselves more. Some say LVG is stifling the creative players and in some ways it's true when Rooney is passing sideways and backwards all the time and Herrera, Mata are sitting on the bench but Januzaj, Di Maria still try things. Unless they are given permission to take more risks.

Januzaj and Di Maria are both wingers, so by definition they are required to take more risks than Rooney who was pretty much playing as the 3rd CB against Burnley for most of the game.

Also, his recent move to an even deeper role has coincided with the negative passing. Watch the Hull, Liverpool, Villa, Newcastle etc. games and his passing is anything but negative.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Well hats off to him for not complaining about his new manager totally ruining him and his goal scoring chances playing him completely out of position for two out of form strikers, he is doing a good job supporting his new manager and doing what he's told to even though it must be extremely annoying for him game after game.

 

[Señor]

It's a sad day when Roy fecking Hodgson is better at managing one of Manchester United and England's best players rather than the actual Manchester United manager.

I think this is the first time in a long long time the England team might be better than the United one.

 

[JUPITER]

Well hats off to him for not complaining about his new manager totally ruining him and his goal scoring chances playing him completely out of position for two out of form strikers, he is doing a good job supporting his new manager and doing what he's told to even though it must be extremely annoying for him game after game.

Same as he did under Moyes as well.

He's an awesome player to have, I hope he retires here after becoming our top scorer - he deserves it.

 

[mumbai_red]

Lord save us from people with a video editing package and a penchant for Big Massive Arrows.

It's all just so simple when you can watch the play over and over again, in isolation, and in slow motion, isn't it?

I've already admitted that this may or may not be the ideal example and it was something I found on Facebook. But anyway, I do think Wayne Rooney is conservative with his passing and that's my view. That's an observation, not a criticism and there are several instances over the last two games when I really thought there was a pass on and Rooney chose to turn back.

There is nothing wrong with what Rooney is doing, its just a style of football. If you want expansive football, then those passes should be going into strikers even if there is a chance of offside.

 

[mumbai_red]

You kinda do have a better view though.

Not sure if you're being sarcastic, can't tell.

What I really meant is...it seems like a pass is on but Rooney opts for safety. He's not a central midfield and when you're just doing a job, its fine to play well within yourself.

 

[adexkola]

See I'd agree with almost all of that. Especially the bit about dropping Falcao. Although I can understand why he's giving him every chance to prove himself. Partly because he was a monster of a player fairly recently and is still only 28, partly because Mendes kicked up an almighty fuss when Falcao was dropped earlier on in the season and we're trying to keep him sweet so we can get De Gea's new contract across the line.

Jesus fecking Christ. Another reason the game is slowly turning into a circus

 

[NessunDorma]

I've already admitted that this may or may not be the ideal example and it was something I found on Facebook. But anyway, I do think Wayne Rooney is conservative with his passing and that's my view. That's an observation, not a criticism and there are several instances over the last two games when I really thought there was a pass on and Rooney chose to turn back.

There is nothing wrong with what Rooney is doing, its just a style of football. If you want expansive football, then those passes should be going into strikers even if there is a chance of offside.

Any old excuse to post these:









He's definitely got the sublime defense splitting ball in his locker. Maybe not to the extent of the absolute best midfielders, but he can do it. It just seems that at the moment he's under instruction to play like Daley Blind.

 

[Devil may care]

Link?

The tweet on the page before my post, where LvG says if he takes Rooney out of midfield it loses balance, to me that says he pretty much sees Rooney as our best CM as he could have paired Fellaini and Herrera many times and played Rooney up top, but he hasn't.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Any old excuse to post these:









He's definitely got the sublime defense splitting ball in his locker. Maybe not to the extent of the absolute best midfielders, but he can do it. It just seems that at the moment he's under instruction to play like Daley Blind.

They come off about one in twenty. And hopefully those aren't his intructioms because he's never going to do it as well as Daley Blind.

 

[NessunDorma]

They come off about one in twenty. And hopefully those aren't his intructioms because he's never going to do it as well as Daley Blind.

Gets an awful lot of assists for a man who apparently can't spot a killer ball though, doesn't he?











And so on.

Must just be luck. Ten years solid of it.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Gets an awful lot of assists for a man who apparently can't spot a killer ball though, doesn't he?

Must just be luck. Ten years solid of it.

if only I had said he can't spot it.

His passing is inconsistent. But his vision has always been good despite issues execution. None of that is an issue when he plays as a striker like he should. It does when he plays as a midfielder taking heavy touches and over hitting passes left right and centre. Keep him forward where he can impact the game with an assist or a goal, rather than be the creative hub.

 

[NessunDorma]

if only I had said he can't spot it.

His passing is inconsistent.

Be that as it may, it's still good enough to put him among the top assistors in the league, when he isn't being asked to play like Daley Blind to help the balance of the team.

 

[mumbai_red]

He's definitely got the sublime defense splitting ball in his locker. Maybe not to the extent of the absolute best midfielders, but he can do it. It just seems that at the moment he's under instruction to play like Daley Blind.

First off, I agree with the bit in bold completely.

I used that example to illustrate how conservative Rooney is playing in midfield. I'll admit, based on what other posters have said, its a poor example but the point remains that in general play his passing has lacked ambition, its mostly safety first. That's not to say, he lacks vision or is incapable of playing 'defense-splitting' passes; the fact that I'm calling it conservative means that I acknowledge Rooney has the ability to open up a team from midfield as well.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Gets an awful lot of assists for a man who apparently can't spot a killer ball though, doesn't he?











And so on.

Must just be luck. Ten years solid of it.

But, but...80 of those are probably from set pieces.

 

[JUPITER]

Gets an awful lot of assists for a man who apparently can't spot a killer ball though, doesn't he?











And so on.

And we're playing him as a DM to accommodate two completely out of form number 9s...what the feck's goin' on behind closed doors for this nonsense to be tolerated?