This. Ferguson's retirement came at the right time for Rooney's United career. Wasn't Ferguson a known admirer of Lewandowski?
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This. Ferguson's retirement came at the right time for Rooney's United career. Wasn't Ferguson a known admirer of Lewandowski?
Completely agreed. I mentioned the same in the unpopular opinions thread.
I agree. And the bought wisely part is very important.
Rooney really isn't our best option for any position he plays. He's not a midfielder and playing him as one of the two strikers rarely works. But last summer I wouldn't have want him to leave as we had enough change already. But Rooney isn't captain material and he hasn't particularly earned his automatic starting position.
So we are now on our third successive manager who won't drop Rooney when clearly out of form, does he have pictures of the chairman blowing sheep or something?
He is not a midfielder. We need to get him in spaces where he can score goals.
Couple of so-so games in an unfavoured position, and he's back to being over the hill and should be sold.
Don't ever change, Red Cafe.
(And next week it'll be someone else)
Don't ever change, Red Cafe.
(And next week it'll be someone else)
This. 100% agree.
Better #9s? 
Jesus. Just days ago they were both over the hill and fecking useless. Both scored at home against the lowest team in the league and they're back... I don't see what Mata does better than Rooney at the #10 than having a better first touch, either. He's very passive in possession for the most part.
Jesus. Just days ago they were both over the hill and fecking useless. Both scored at home against the lowest team in the league and they're back... I don't see what Mata does better than Rooney at the #10 than having a better first touch, either. He's very passive in possession for the most part.Rooney is our most important player and has been for a number of years. There really is no other player like him, what other player is so clinical infront of goal, yet has the passing range that he does and is so willing to be adaptable for the team? His first time finishes are amongst the best in the world, so incredibly underrated what an asset it is. Mata had a class game again Southampton (I think) but his inability to hit a ball first time, like most attacking midfielders, saw him miss several golden opportunities and essentially drop points.
Rooney vs Liverpool is calm, sorts his feet out quickly, gives the keeper the eyes and makes what was by no means an easy chance look so simple. I don't think people would realise what a negative effect it would have on our side if we didn't have him.
Rooney vs Liverpool is calm, sorts his feet out quickly, gives the keeper the eyes and makes what was by no means an easy chance look so simple. I don't think people would realise what a negative effect it would have on our side if we didn't have him.
Better #9s?
RVP is a better #9 certainly. His better hold up play and touch with his back to goal sets him apart from our other strikers even if Rooney is probably the better finisher. Falcao has been gash more often than not but apparently it's all bad luck so I dunno,
Mata is definitely not a better #10. People confuse elegance with effectiveness. I've never seen Rooney afforded the same excuses Mata has been when he's not creating and Rooney's created far more clear cut chances from a deeper position.
Pub Rooney showed up yesterday. So disappointed, and he should have been subbed off for Herrera. Herrera's a better midfielder, no doubt about that.
I'll possibly give you RvP, but he has looked really laborious at times this season, and we seem to have a trend to games like this or the game against Southampton, to the three or four really poor ones inbetween.
I really do agree about Mata, many will bite our heads of because he's a nice chap and very loved, but in honesty the best things about his play are positioning himself in goalscoring opportunities and having a fantastic first touch. Rooney scores and assists as many as he (normally more) whilst having the added physicality from that role, so what is the point of Mata?
Falcao has been good id say, his movement is amongst the best I've seen. To me, it seems like he's just simply not comfortable with finishing when he's under pressure, he has less time than he would if he was in Portugal or Spain; reminds me of Forlan in that regard. He's better than him though, so I expect to see improvements as he becomes more accustomed to the premier league.
After surviving the Summer of 2013, when 95% of Caftards wanted him out, this is all harmless.
It's funny how starting Rooney is a big problem but everytime he don't start we miss him badly. More than every other player.
Big call to say Falcao is better than Forlán. I don't think I'd agree, both were amazing at their best but I'd say Forlán is better because he was more rounded.
Upon reflection it probably was, it's a lot closer than I made out. I suppose it's easier to make a case for Falcao because Forlan first made a name for himself where he struggled in the Premier League, whereas Falcao still has time to make his time here a success.
Are you talking of their peaks?
Yeah. Don't think there's much wrong with rating either higher than the other though, both have their plus points.
Falcao at his best is comfortably the better striker. It is easy to see with Falcao that if the Falcao of old was in this league, he'd be tearing it apart. I mean even this shadow of his former self, looks a decent goal threat in every game he plays in, it is just he isn't sharp enough to warrant that price tag. It is a shame, there are moments where you see glimpses of his old self and you think what a player, but the guy isn't what he used to be.
Forlan was a good player but Falcao was at one stage the number one striker in the world.
I don't really agree but fair enough. I don't disagree with what you said about Falcao, just that I think Forlán at his best was a lot better than 'good'. He wasn't the world's best but he wasn't far off. Could ping one in from 35 yards with either foot, formed an amazing partnership with Agüero (after ripping up Spain with Villarreal), great technically.
But anyway...Rooney!
Forlan is more talented, more complete.. I agree about that. But Falcao in his prime, he really was a monster.. he was considered by most people to be the best in his position. The one striker who was competing with the Messi/Ronaldo phenomenon. Forlan never attained that status for me but obviousl deserves huge credit for his performances in the world cup 2010.
I just think prime Falcao - if he had played for United, he'd definitely have ended up a legend here, no question.. he had that mentality and class to play for the big boys. Forlan never had that in my opinion, he enjoyed being a big fish in a small pond and I always questioned if he could make that step up.
How was Falcao comfortably better at their peaks? Falcao's scoring records are boosted by the Europa League but in the league alone Forlan scored 30+ goals something Falcao has never matched. That's without even going into how Forlan's all round game is better than Falcao's.
Louis van Gaal recognises he offers far more than a 9 and if played up top he might lack the discipline because it's in his nature to help out defensively, he doesn't have the playmaking qualities of a 10 in a 4-2-3-1, I'd prefer Mata or Herrera in that role, I'm not convinced Rooney will perform to his potential when Falcao and RVP are ahead of him.
He could perhaps perform the support striker role in a flat 4-4-2 but we don't play that, in the diamond his tendency to drop will mean he gets in the way of the 10 and also in a flat 4-4-2 he would likely need a more pacey striker which we don't have and even then he might find himself clearing balls outside our area and then by the time he sprints back up the counter is dead.
Louis van Gaal recognises his talent and probably thinks he could bring the best out of him as a box to box midfielder but adjusting to a new position will take time, he has goals in him and the more chances we start to create the more goals he'll start getting from midfield. At this point we now would have goals from a central midfielder in addition to goals from the 10, two 9s and potentially the other central midfielder too.
Retraining to a new position will take time, he has the qualities to be effective however he needs to reduce the errors and I also think he needs to improve his short passing and the weight he puts on passes. His passing range is good, his long passes are good and even his short passes however we are talking about operating in dangerous areas, if you lose the ball then you possibly give the opponent a goal scoring opportunity.
Louis van Gaal probably sees the potential, when you look at Rooney he is complete, it actually makes sense to play him there when you look at his qualities but of course he is not going to instantly retrain to that position but when he does he could be one of the best at it and we all know how hard it is to come by a complete central midfielder these days. Furthermore due to his long shots and finishing he could contribute many goals and arriving late into the box will make him hard to mark, he can pop up in the space to take his shot.
It's probably a long term plan.
He could perhaps perform the support striker role in a flat 4-4-2 but we don't play that, in the diamond his tendency to drop will mean he gets in the way of the 10 and also in a flat 4-4-2 he would likely need a more pacey striker which we don't have and even then he might find himself clearing balls outside our area and then by the time he sprints back up the counter is dead.
Louis van Gaal recognises his talent and probably thinks he could bring the best out of him as a box to box midfielder but adjusting to a new position will take time, he has goals in him and the more chances we start to create the more goals he'll start getting from midfield. At this point we now would have goals from a central midfielder in addition to goals from the 10, two 9s and potentially the other central midfielder too.
Retraining to a new position will take time, he has the qualities to be effective however he needs to reduce the errors and I also think he needs to improve his short passing and the weight he puts on passes. His passing range is good, his long passes are good and even his short passes however we are talking about operating in dangerous areas, if you lose the ball then you possibly give the opponent a goal scoring opportunity.
Louis van Gaal probably sees the potential, when you look at Rooney he is complete, it actually makes sense to play him there when you look at his qualities but of course he is not going to instantly retrain to that position but when he does he could be one of the best at it and we all know how hard it is to come by a complete central midfielder these days. Furthermore due to his long shots and finishing he could contribute many goals and arriving late into the box will make him hard to mark, he can pop up in the space to take his shot.
It's probably a long term plan.
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He'll be 30 in October. I cannot see that aspect of his game improving and I'd rather have a top class specialist for that for that role for the long term.
Of course you can improve it. You get put in a different position and you don't have the same awareness of what's around you. With experience, you become familiar with the surroundings, what balls to play in certain situations and how best to weight them. Doesn't matter if you're 29 or 19.
Probably at 19 but not at nearly 30 at the top level.
The only difference is that at 30 is that you're more developed technically already, so in theory it should be easier to improve. The problem isn't that it's out of Rooneys technical capability to play short passes and weight balls, it's his understanding.
Forlan did that once. 32 in 33. Falcao's best league season is either 25 in 28 at Porto or 28 in 34 at Atletico. I don't really think it's such a huge reference point.
I'm not disagreeing with the point that Forlan had a bit more about him though, but when you consider that Falcao is about 40 goals shy of Forlan's record overall in just shy of half as many games played, you've got to give him some credit.
I don't think he's lost his agility or pace as much as he has lost his role. Playing in a position that is not natural to you and being forced to do so (I mean he doesn't run all over the pitch anymore the way he used to) would make a lot of players look like they're a bit lethargic and lost ability. I'm also reffering to 09/10 as proof of his ability.
Besides, it would be one thing if RVP and Falcao were firing goals left and right. It just frustrates me that we aren't using Rooney as a striker anymore.
SAF bought all those strikers because well he always liked to have around four strikers. About his first touch, whenever I see him playing up front his first touches seem to come off really well rather than in midfield which could be because he's a natural goal scorer and finds it easier to set himself up to score. I wasn't saying he should play only because he's a natural goal scorer.
Calling him a "jack of all trades" really is an insult to Rooney and I get the feeling that it's because of his versatility that you and many others have that opinion.
Who would you rather make Captain? It's really disappointing to see United fans not rate Rooney as a very important player. I'm pretty sure if Rooney went somewhere else last season we'd be in the second half of the table.
He's becoming a problem and it's mothis own doing either. Game after game he looks a complete misfit in central midfield because well, you know, he isn't a midfielder. LVG has basically got himself into a corner now with rooney being told he isn't good enough as a striker and everyone told that the captain must play. Time for him to bite the bullet and go back on this stance of his.
Personally I'd play him as one of the two strikers. Or in the number 10 role behind the two in the diamond but not in midfield.
Personally I'd play him as one of the two strikers. Or in the number 10 role behind the two in the diamond but not in midfield.
He really needs to play upfront. He's been horrible in midfield and our coaching staff should have seen that by now. Either play him upfront or not at all
This!
If he's not good enough for the striker spot then better sit him on the bench than trying to find him place in the team just because he's captain.
Personally think he's better than both Falcao and RVP, just LVG doesn't like him up-front for some reason, but he doesn't like Herrera as well so it could be there's no real logical explanation with Rooneys omission from striker positon just like Herrerars from midfield.
Long term just means it's the role he'll be playing for seasons to come, so even if his performances have not been quality Louis van Gaal will persist because he wants to give him a solid chance of showing he can do whatever he wants him to do. This is an assumption on my part, it could just be a short term thing.
His short passing probably is fine, I mean't improve his decision making when passing which should come as he gets used to the role and gets more games there. A slightly heavy pass or under hit would be considered an error, I would imagine the errors will reduce as he also gets used to the role.
I do agree with you we should just look at signing a younger player for the role and move Rooney up front especially since RVP will get old and Rooney will get goals. That said if Louis van Gaal genuinely thinks Rooney could start performing fantastically well as a central midfielder then he has got to stick to his judgement, we'll see what happens, I wouldn't expect much consistency until he gets more time in that position.
Louis van Gaal is playing a dangerous game though, part of his philosophy is always planning for the future, that is to say building a team that will be champions both domestically and in europe but also leaving behind a very good basis for the next manager to build on. It's a dangerous game because if he doesn't get top four he will get sacked, but it's a game he likes to play.
The main elephant in the room is, why not playing Rooney as one of the two strikers; just to accommodate 'lesser' strikers there.
The amount of passes he overhits and misplaces are just come off awkwardly isn't good enough for a central midifelder I'm afraid. At best we can afford one midfielder who is risky with his passing and that has to be di Maria everytime because he can do things with the ball at feet the others simply can't. Rooney has to be further forward focusing on assisting and scoring,and not on running the game.
Despite being a big Wayne Rooney fan, i wouldn't want to see him in our midfield in his 30s, i think he still has 2 seasons to offer us at least 12 goals each but other than that i think giving him the captains armband was the perfect way to usher him out of the team and perhaps help him secure a big move to end his career, with that being said i still think despite his so far average performances in the midfield he deserves to play behind the strikers due to that extra something he offers the team.
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