Really? I can only think of Newcastle and Liverpool. Not being sarcastic but please remind me of more. In any case, he really stifles us in midfield. Anyone can see that.
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Really? I can only think of Newcastle and Liverpool. Not being sarcastic but please remind me of more. In any case, he really stifles us in midfield. Anyone can see that.
Newcastle, Liverpool, West Ham, Arsenal - that's 50% of his goals scored via runs from deep.
The point being. We need to play him up front, not in midfield. I am very sure I'm not the only one who'll say that he's not cut out for it. I'm not hating on him; it's not his fault he's not a midfielder being played there but he IS rubbish at it. For many reasons that have been stated many times on this forum.
I don't think he's "not cut out for midfield". I want him to move up front simply because for now, that's where he is best at.
One day in the future, then I can see him being a midfielder. But he's 3rd in the club's goal-scoring record, he needs to be up there.
One day in the future, then I can see him being a midfielder. But he's 3rd in the club's goal-scoring record, he needs to be up there.
He's been really poor in midfield lately. I don't think his passing range is as good as people think it is. For me, he shouldn't be in midfield, at least not at the moment.
If it was the 90th minute and you had to pick which one of our players had a one-on-one to win the match, who would you pick? Because for me it would be Rooney every time. Against Arsenal, against Newcastle, I was basically celebrating before he even scored.
I understood wanting pace up front, but putting Di Maria up there and Rooney in midfield is just wrong. Di Maria, running with the ball from those deep central positions, is one of the best players in the world.
If it was the 90th minute and you had to pick which one of our players had a one-on-one to win the match, who would you pick? Because for me it would be Rooney every time. Against Arsenal, against Newcastle, I was basically celebrating before he even scored.
I understood wanting pace up front, but putting Di Maria up there and Rooney in midfield is just wrong. Di Maria, running with the ball from those deep central positions, is one of the best players in the world.
I can't stand the *Rooney to Valencia* pass that seems to happen every 2nd time he gets the ball.
If the pass is successful - which they usually are - why can't you stand it?
Support striker or lead striker. Did LVG not watch Rooney destroy his Bayern side in 2010? Did he not see Rooney and Chicharito embarrass Chelsea in 2011? This is really frustrating and almost as bad as watching Di Maria up front.
You can tell Rooney looks lost in this midfield. He is trying to be conservative which is not his instinctual self. The creativity is lost from his game completely because I think he is afraid to lose the ball in bad positions.
Rooney has always been prone to giving it away (like Giggs, Nani and other creative players) because he always tries to unlock the other team. But when he is a striker this doesn't hurt as much because he is further up the pitch.
The no pace argument is bullshit. He is still really fast. Not really fast running with the ball (never has been) but running on the counter attack or getting in behind the defenders or getting on the end of a ball he is still really fast. Speed doesn't just go away at 29.
You can tell Rooney looks lost in this midfield. He is trying to be conservative which is not his instinctual self. The creativity is lost from his game completely because I think he is afraid to lose the ball in bad positions.
Rooney has always been prone to giving it away (like Giggs, Nani and other creative players) because he always tries to unlock the other team. But when he is a striker this doesn't hurt as much because he is further up the pitch.
The no pace argument is bullshit. He is still really fast. Not really fast running with the ball (never has been) but running on the counter attack or getting in behind the defenders or getting on the end of a ball he is still really fast. Speed doesn't just go away at 29.
very true.
as much as i want to see rvp and falcao both starting it is obvious it should be rooney plus one at this moment.
Good post.
I don't mind him playing the odd game in midfield and he's clearly nowhere near as bad there some try to make hm out but it's such a monumental waste of his talent and ability. I don't think Fergie ever played Rooney in CM for as long as Van Gaal has. I really thought this bs with playing players all over the place would stop with LVG but he's taken it to a whole new level.
It's ridiculous watching Wayne Rooney shackled in centre midfield while at the same fecking time Di Maria is stuck up front!
It's actually this issue (or two issues, if you will) that are really annoying me about Van Gaal - much more than the formation, or selling players I like.
It's just sabotage. Rooney should be up front in some capacity running defences ragged with Di Maria running from within our own half with the ball.
Obviously Van Gaal knows way more about football than me, hell, most of the posters on here know more about football than me! But on this issue, he's wrong. Spectacularly wrong.
It's as if he does something controversial once and then is so stubborn and vain that he has to then stick with it until it produces some kind of positive result, so he can then say, "I told you so".
Conversely, if the controversial action goes well to start with he then sticks with it anyway cuz it's gone well!
So, basically, we've got a manager who makes lots of controversial decisions - and then sticks with them indefinitely!
This is how we've ended up playing a ridiculous formation, with our best striker (yeah, he is) in centre fecking midfield, our best creative midfielder (ADM) as a centre forward, our best centre midfielders (Herrera and Fellaini) either on the bench or in the box having long balls flung into them, with Phil Jones taking corners...
It's a mess. It really is.
I like Van Gaal, and I really want it to work out with him. But the guy is just getting more and more erratic with this shit.
It's like being managed by a fecking avant garde jazz musician or something.
It's actually this issue (or two issues, if you will) that are really annoying me about Van Gaal - much more than the formation, or selling players I like.
It's just sabotage. Rooney should be up front in some capacity running defences ragged with Di Maria running from within our own half with the ball.
Obviously Van Gaal knows way more about football than me, hell, most of the posters on here know more about football than me! But on this issue, he's wrong. Spectacularly wrong.
It's as if he does something controversial once and then is so stubborn and vain that he has to then stick with it until it produces some kind of positive result, so he can then say, "I told you so".
Conversely, if the controversial action goes well to start with he then sticks with it anyway cuz it's gone well!
So, basically, we've got a manager who makes lots of controversial decisions - and then sticks with them indefinitely!
This is how we've ended up playing a ridiculous formation, with our best striker (yeah, he is) in centre fecking midfield, our best creative midfielder (ADM) as a centre forward, our best centre midfielders (Herrera and Fellaini) either on the bench or in the box having long balls flung into them, with Phil Jones taking corners...
It's a mess. It really is.
I like Van Gaal, and I really want it to work out with him. But the guy is just getting more and more erratic with this shit.
It's like being managed by a fecking avant garde jazz musician or something.
He's average there. That's been my biggest beef with LvG here. Rooney is our best striker, playing in CM. Our best CM is playing as striker.
And it's not just him. Half our best players are playing out of position at the moment. Di Maria up front, Mata and Rooney in CM, Carrick spending half his time at CB. I think the basic substance of our football is better than under Moyes but the shape is absolutely killing us, and not just because 352 is so clearly not working.
Yup I got that wrong. Perhaps in a different midfield he could work but when he us asked to be the main man in a weird formation, he is lost and is not playing his game.
Considering it usually means our attack is dead, why would anyone stand it? It's very predictable. Teams have figured it out. If we had a decent player on the right I could understand. Rooney though, obviously still thinks it's 2009 and Valencia is able to cross.
The best days I've seen of Rooney were in 09-10 when he tore Milan, Bayern and many English clubs all a new Arse hole. I don't know where that Wayne Rooney is anymore but he definitely isn't still around imo. This was the same Rooney who would shoot with his laces over the side of his foot.
The new Rooney (from 2013) onwards is a midfielder imo. I think he gets more pleasure being a playmaker, creating chances and scoring whenever he can. You can see it in every aspect of his persona. He's the leader, he's matured, he has a responsibility and he enforces that through attacking and defending. He's the best in our team in that role, maybe Di Maria can surpass him but not yet. So why move him upfront?
I genuinely loved seeing Wayne upfront but I think he is destined for midfield.
The new Rooney (from 2013) onwards is a midfielder imo. I think he gets more pleasure being a playmaker, creating chances and scoring whenever he can. You can see it in every aspect of his persona. He's the leader, he's matured, he has a responsibility and he enforces that through attacking and defending. He's the best in our team in that role, maybe Di Maria can surpass him but not yet. So why move him upfront?
I genuinely loved seeing Wayne upfront but I think he is destined for midfield.
Definitely was at the start of the season. Since turning to that formation directly from hell I'd argue we have looked any better at all.
Also he's currently our best finisher.
God help us
We were actually woeful at the start of the season. Really really poor.
The only run of half-decent football was most of the 7 games with a back four I analysed in the ass-twitching thread. That and some isolated games in the run of twelve 532s that followed (Hull, Newcastle and maybe Palace)
Of course, it does not usually means that, and what's he supposed to do, ignore Valencia completely? I'm sure LVG would love that.
No, he's supposed to vary it up. You know, like what most good players do?
I thought our football improved though. Had some woeful results but I could take that as we looked the part going forward and footballing wise, definitely an improvement to our hoof-football last season. Imo that is. Thought we look much much worse now with somehow being able to grind out results. Don't think Palace was good to watch neither. Hull I'll give you but they were so incredibly woeful it was unbelievable.
The first half against spurs was 532? Seem to recall we were pretty good in that half and should have been well ahead.
Which he does...? You make it seem like all he does is pass, pass and pass to Valencia. In last game for instance, he had 5 passes to him to the right, all successful, out of his 80+ passes in the game.
I generally think he ignores closer and perhaps better alternatives through the middle with that pass. He is still in striker mode with his back to goal, thinking that sweeping the ball wide will result in a cross he can finish off.
In midfield you need to have more of a picture about you, sometimes Mata is free right next to him, or a striker is ready for a 1-2 but they are all ignored. Our play generally coincides of a few passes around at the back, into Rooney who shifts it wide. We then trundle up to the box which when the rubbish cross is put in, either get's headed straight back out or put out for a corner. It's just not exciting or creative in any way.
It means Valencia ends up seeing the ball more than most of our XI on the pitch, which spells big trouble for us considering his attacking play is almost non existent. A successful pass doesn't mean anything if we lose the threat directly afterwards. Opposing teams know how to deal with it, infact it's rather simple for them. Swansea on the first day was the worst. Their left back intercepted at least 5 of those passes out wide. Where did his other 70 odd passes go? Did he do anything creative with them? Can't really remember seeing any cutting penetrative passes to create a chance. He seems too comfortable in keeping things ticking over, which should be Carrick/Blind's job when they play there.
Can't remember the one for the goal even?
And for other 'issues', think you'll have to be a bit more angry at LVG, than Rooney/Valencia.
The idea that all Rooney does is pass to Valencia is a hilariously wrong. He has more assists from passes through the middle than Mata does and has played some very good through balls already this season. He's well capable of that as is very obvious. With the pace we play with though, sometimes that's the only choice we have. Certainly a better option than lumping it up top to RVP and expecting him to pull off miracles. Kroos is a fantastic CM and all he did in the Copa Del Rey game this week was spray the ball to the wide men. It's a bummer that it's Valencia out wide but there's nothing we can do about that with Rafael crocked as usual.
The pass for the goal, come on. It's like when some were saying his free kick against Southampton was an outrageous cross. I am angry that he plays in midfield, but this is hardly something new considering he's been lumping the ball to the right for years. Yes it's a bummer Valencia is out right, so why the feck does he always look to pass to him? People think he's destined to be a midfielder ffs. Kroos can play that pass with his eyes closed, and the difference for him is he can play it anywhere on the pitch such is his wide array of talent.
They're obviously exaggerating to make a point but it's fecking ridiculous, I agree.
One thing's for sure. He's not been playing well at all in recent weeks. Been arguably our best player this season but has gone completely off the boil over the course of that long run of games in central midfield.
So Rooney can't pass and when he does it's only to Valencia, he's got no pace, he's not worldclass, his first touch is crap, he keeps losing the ball....etc blah blah blah, what utter nonsence!
I'm sorry but I see a completey different player who is worldclass, who can pass long or short, who scores plenty of goals aswell as creates them, who is deadly on set pieces, who is deceptively quick... blah blah blah etc
I'm sorry but I see a completey different player who is worldclass, who can pass long or short, who scores plenty of goals aswell as creates them, who is deadly on set pieces, who is deceptively quick... blah blah blah etc
When did you last see that player?
I lay no blame on Rooney's door for him playing poorly in midfield. He shouldnt be playing there.
Less than a month ago. What team have you been watching?
He hasn't really, but he has played very well. Probably our best attacking player, but De Gea and Blind have been better than him.
EDIT: And Carrick
1 in 6 then, not bad. Almost Nani esque. You're right, he was good in the Newcastle game. Been garbage since though.
Agreed about Rooney's go-to ball out to Valencia - it does get a tad predictable and over-used. He does generally have a decent range of passing, particularly his long-range game, so it's a shame when he constantly opts for the safe ball to Valencia's feet. Given Valencia's curious loss of confidence in taking players on since a few seasons ago, more often than not our attacks end up fizzling out: either when he turns back out and plays it to one of the back 3; or when he piledrives the ball into the opposing left-back's shin-pads.
I don't think the decision to play Rooney in midfield is inherently a bad one. But it is puzzling when you have a ready-made pass-and-move midfielder in Herrera twiddling his thumbs on the bench while we make do with both Rooney and Mata playing and sometimes struggling in unaccustomed roles. Van Gaal talks about how the players haven;t adapted to the new system but he doesn't half make it hard for them to, by not only changing the formation but playing many of the players in completely different roles than they're used to.
I don't think the decision to play Rooney in midfield is inherently a bad one. But it is puzzling when you have a ready-made pass-and-move midfielder in Herrera twiddling his thumbs on the bench while we make do with both Rooney and Mata playing and sometimes struggling in unaccustomed roles. Van Gaal talks about how the players haven;t adapted to the new system but he doesn't half make it hard for them to, by not only changing the formation but playing many of the players in completely different roles than they're used to.
Let Herrera / Di maria / Carrick / Blind / Fellaini be the "2" in midfield, and leave Rooney to battle it out with Mata for the AMC position. He can still defend and help the midfield from that position, but also helps him get into the box a lot more.
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