[Di Maria's angel]

Yesterday, Chelsea had the league wrapped up whilst it was also clear United was going to be fourth. Before today's meaningless fixtures I think it looked like this:

Rooney (12), Van Persie (10), Falcao (4) scored 26 Premier League goals combined ---> Manchester United finishes 4th.

Costa (19), Remy (5), Drogba (4) score 28 Premier League goals combined ---> Chelsea finishes 1st

Now of course Remy and Costa have scored today, but there's still not a big difference in goals between their strikers and our strikers. You could say some of Rooney's goals have come from midfield and discount them. But to me the numbers mainly show that our strikers haven't really been the problem this season. Of course they could've done better in some matches, but for me they're not really to blame. I'd say it's the rest of the team who needs EDIT: to raise /EDIT their level if we want to compete for the league next year.

This is correct.

When you look at players Like Shaw, Blind, Rojo (LB); Young, Mata, Fellaini, Herrera (CM/AM) and Valencia (RB) i.e. the most prominently featuring players over the last 10-15 games, its truly not hard to understand why our strikers performed so poorly this year. The above mentioned players let us down, to some extent, with regards to their creativity; they quite simply do not create enough which is why we scored only 62 goals this year. It's also not helped that our most creative player was left to rot on the bench for two months or so, and the fact that we seem the only be able to play cohesive football whist Carrick is on the pitch.

Right now, I don't believe that RvP, Falcao and Rooney turned into terrible strikers in the space of a season. We clearly turned into a terrible team within two.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Where is this notion that he is creative coming from? When he gets the ball he either tries to turn back, sprays it to the right wing or shoots. That's if he gets it under control at all.

 

[Lennon7]

What has be brought recently?

Leadership, finesse, doing things that others simply can't.

I agree he hasn't been brilliant in the last few games, but most of the season he has.

 

[drdoityourself]

Leadership, finesse, doing things that others simply can't.

I agree he hasn't been brilliant in the last few games, but most of the season he has.

If he's been brilliant for the most of the season you must be seeing things I simply can't.
Finesse for instance, hasn't been a part of his game when I've watched him. He quite simply looks burnt out, his best attributes, power, stamina and pace seem mostly gone, and frankly he hasn't added enough to his game to warrant an automatic selection. Over time he's improved his finishing but his overall game, leaves a lot to be desired when we aspire to win the league.

It reminds me of the emperor's new clothes when people are defending him. The argument is mostly: If you know anything about football you see how good he is. There isn't any actual things to notice about him but it's there.If you can't see it, you are clueless. Those of us who constantly see him miscontrol a pass, slow down attacks with his uninspiring passing, or struggling to outpace even the most lumbering centre half, are just missing the bigger picture.

He was one of my favorite players, I've long let go of the transfer request thing, he just isn't delivering anymore. Played one up top he'll probably keep up fine goalscoring stats, but the way I see it we need more pace, more running behind, and quicker passing in this position. He (or our other forwards) don't worrydefences anymore, they can push up higher and that leads to our constant sideways passing.
That brings us to the question who can we sign to challenge him, maybe Lacazette but it's slim pickins this summer it seems.

 

[NoPace]

I don't think there's that many 9s out there that are better than Rooney that we could sign. Are Lacazette and Kane the best young strikers who could still move to a better club?

I just think the gap between Rooney and the other 9s at the top clubs is far less than the gap between Valencia and their RBs, Jones/Rojo and their LCBs, Valdes and their keepers, Fellaini and their LCMs and Young and their LWFs.

Benzema and Lewandowski are younger and more mobile and are more reliable holding up the ball, but they typically have the 25-30 goals in about 45-50 games I think we'd from Rooney playing alone up top.

So, at highest, I'd say replacing Rooney should be 6th or 7th priority. And presumably we don't want a truly insane amount of turnover and with strikers being so expensive, I'd probably shelve this issue until next summer at the earliest.

 

[itso 7]

I don't think there's that many 9s out there that are better than Rooney that we could sign. Are Lacazette and Kane the best young strikers who could still move to a better club?

I just think the gap between Rooney and the other 9s at the top clubs is far less than the gap between Valencia and their RBs, Jones/Rojo and their LCBs, Valdes and their keepers, Fellaini and their LCMs and Young and their LWFs.

Benzema and Lewandowski are younger and more mobile and are more reliable holding up the ball, but they typically have the 25-30 goals in about 45-50 games I think we'd from Rooney playing alone up top.

So, at highest, I'd say replacing Rooney should be 6th or 7th priority. And presumably we don't want a truly insane amount of turnover and with strikers being so expensive, I'd probably shelve this issue until next summer at the earliest.

I think this is exactly what will happen and for the reasons you have stated. Replacing him simply isn't as high a priority as fixing our problem positions, if we did that and neglected those positions then we will remain where we are and if we tried to replace him and fix our problems we are inviting problems caused by too much turnover of the playing staff.
I'd say make the team solid and get it playing cohesively whilst Rooney and RVP slug it out for the starter role and then replace both in 2016!

 

[gerdm07]

Can't blame Rooney when we don't ever create anything for the most part. All of our strikers have struggled because of lack of Chances. Obviously Rooney needs to take some responsibility for that as well as everyone else.

Well yesterday he received a nice pass just outside the area and had about 7 yards of space in front of him. What did our dangerous striker do? He took one dribble forward and then decided to cut back away from goal to safety. Oh yeah, and he lost the ball because he wasn't aware enough to know there was a defender closing him down in that direction. I can't think of many good strikers taking that choice in that situation.

As I see it Rooney does this because he knows he really can't take on defenders with much success anymore. Most often he is stripped of the ball pretty easily and is embarassed. I really think he is not bold anymore because he will be found out. Is this the kind of striker that could lead us to a EPL title?

 

[JR10]

Has he added weight?

Spoiler

 

[prarek]

Has he added weight?

Spoiler

The hell? Don't tell me that's a new style.

 

[JR10]

The waistcoat is dreadful.

 

[psychdelicblues]

Leadership, finesse, doing things that others simply can't.

I agree he hasn't been brilliant in the last few games, but most of the season he has.

He has been average at best.

 

[DevilRed]

Taking the piss now. Not only has he lost the ability to score goals, now he cant even dress properly.

 

[RedMachine03]

 

[Godfather]

Has he added weight?

Spoiler

Would be quite astonishing how quick it happened this year.

 

[LeftyBlaster]

Where is this notion that he is creative coming from? When he gets the ball he either tries to turn back, sprays it to the right wing or shoots. That's if he gets it under control at all.

It's one of the great myths here. People will probably dump assist statistics in your face to justify it while completely ignoring what actually goes on when he plays.

 

[NoPace]

For a 9, he's reasonably creative in that he isn't selfish, has a good range of passing, isn't static (though Van Gaal likes a more static striker) and can combine in short spaces on the deck.

But yeah, he hasn't created a ton of attacks with his back to goal since we were beating Arsenal on the break with Park and others rushing past him.

I think people are overrating strikers in general here. The best teams have brilliant wide attackers and very good strikers these days, not so much the other way around.

 

[prarek]

Awesome username btw @Art Vandelay

 

[JR10]

I remember when I used to read that Mata doesn't play well on away games. Captain Fantastic hey.

 

[Raw]

Bloody hell, that's worrying.

 

[Lennon7]

He has been average at best.

Brilliant may be a bit strong, but he hasn't just been average. We're still a better team with him on the pitch that we are without, in my opinion.

I'd have no issue if we brought in a younger, fresher striker to play instead of Rooney, but I think he still deserves a place in our team.

 

[Kag]

Has he added weight?

Spoiler

He's just the sort of bloke that forgets to button his trousers. Scouser.

 

[markhrad]

Leadership, finesse, doing things that others simply can't.

I agree he hasn't been brilliant in the last few games, but most of the season he has.

Not only will some use statistics to justify their opinion of his greatness but he is often attributed with these intangibles (above ). Sometimes I wonder if there is a different Rooney out there other than the one I am seeing.
Once he is on the field ultimately a lot of our play will go through him. If he is up top then we will lose out on neat sharp interplay around the box, if he is in the midfield its going to be a lot of side and back passes with switches over to the Right wing for him to delay his entry into the box to hopefully meet a cross.
Who are we going to beat with that style of football?
Right now I think his supporters are worried he wont break Utd's goalscoring record and would like him to break Shearer's prem record as a Red. I understand their concern, he is their hero, but at what cost should we acquiesce to their wishes? I am sorry but football success is about the here and now and not sentiments we need to give ourselves the best chance of winning every year because you never know when a drought may arise, 1967-1993.

 

[Dion]

He's been fecking poor this season in all but a handful of games, which just happens to be a handful more than any of our other strikers.

Best of several bad options, we wont win the title with him as our main striker.

 

[Roman Bellic]

Get rid.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Awesome username btw @Art Vandelay

Cheers. It was either this or Dr. Mantis Toboggan.

As much as I'd love to see us get rid of Rooney, that stat might be a bit unfair as we have been fairly crap away from home in general in that time. I'm not defending him at all, I think we were absolute mugs not to get rid of him when we had the chance. I just think that stat isn't the thing he should be bashed for.

 

[ottosec]

 

[m1tch]

Interesting insight into LVG's penalty taker philosophy in that interview. Like Neville says, you'd think it'd just add more pressure, or I guess maybe if a player wants to stay #1 he'll practice so much that missing becomes less and less likely.

 

[Raw]

Phil Jones being on penalty duty

 

[WyoManU]

I don't think Rooney is good enough to justify his weekly wage any more but who to bring in that would be guaranteed better is a hard question to answer.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

He's been fecking poor this season in all but a handful of games, which just happens to be a handful more than any of our other strikers.

Best of several bad options, we wont win the title with him as our main striker.

Perfectly put.

 

[matherto]

I don't think Rooney is good enough to justify his weekly wage any more but who to bring in that would be guaranteed better is a hard question to answer.

He's not been good enough for his weekly wage since he first kicked off and got a mega deal way back when but we're not the ones paying it I guess.

I do believe it'll forever be looked on as a mistake to give him the 5 year contract that we did, but then last year was so full of mistakes it'll get lost in the malaise.

He's a problem. As others have said he has a series of things that he's good at, but none that he's great at and they're only getting worse but because he's undroppable he'll forever cause the problem.

Better than our other strikers though.

 

[IwatUwat]

His season for me has been mixed, playing CM to a decent level but often holding filling in for us wouldnt have helped. For me last yr under Moyes he looked really good. He then got a run up top and looked sharp again. He then dwindled off towards the end and looked isolated and wasteful.

I dont think this style suits him.

When he played no10 under Fergie and scored his most goals, we were quick on the counter Valencia crosses for him to head, shots from distance that he could poach etc, there was space around the box. Now its awful for a striker, we get the ball to the edge of the area in just enough time for all 10 of their players to come back and find positions, some would argue this is where a RVN or a true no10 makes their money. But we have just been flinging in a lot of hopefull balls etc or losing possession with poor passing.

I think Wayne will be fine next yr with more stability and no reliance on him in CM, with Herrera, Carrick and Blind available plus maybe a signing. BUT he is going to be 30 and thus some say prime some say starting to lose a bit. We will see. He's passionate about getting us back to where we need to be, I think no10 under LVG requires a lot of understanding of what he wants though, as there clearly is not a lot of freedom of expression on the field in the current tactics.

 

[pierrethesnack]

When he played no10 under Fergie and scored his most goals, we were quick on the counter Valencia crosses for him to head, shots from distance that he could poach etc, there was space around the box.

I agree. It's easy to forget what Rooney's strengths are when watching him in the current system.

He is a world class counter attacking player. His decision making on the break, and ability make runs into the box at the right time is second only to Ronaldo. I can easily see why Mourinho would want to work with him, they'd be perfect for each other. What he is not particularly good at, is finding an opening in a tight defense... which is what we've had to face almost every single game this season.

I don't think he's likely to get us +25 a season goals under LvG, but if our wingers start chipping in with goals, I'm sure he'll be very useful for years to come.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Although I have said above that I hope we sign a new striker, I do expect Rooney to have a good season in 15-16.

 

[Striker10]

His recording scoring away isn't too good but as a club - especially this season we've been poor. I think it's systematic of that. It would be worse if we had played GREAT and hadn't been scoring but away this season, we've not got going. Against Hull, I thought he did well at times and other times sloppy. He had a great effort that his the bar so with a more dynamic confident team, we'll see a better Rooney. Especially if LVG is telling him to stay up top. You still need good tempo and good service though from other people and that's hopefully what we improve on

 

[United22]

He has been average for the last three seasons and that is a fact. We aren't going to win anything with him as our number 9

 

[Amethyst]

He has 14 goals to his name despite playing in midfield a lot. He's not the player he once used to be, but can always get you a goal. I don't see the reason for all the negativity regarding Rooney. If you want to talk about a steep decline, look at Falcao and now even van Persie.

When he played as a striker during our best form as a team his performances weren't great, Spurs aside. Villa, Liverpool and City particularly he was largely anonymous. As a CF I wouldn't say he's been clearly better than van Persie and we'd still get good money for him whereas RVP would be sold for no more than £12-15 million at most.

 

[Escobar]

Problem is what do you want to do with him. Sell him? Bench him as captain and 200k a week?

 

[jem]

That is an astonishing stat. I don't think he's good enough anymore to be a nailed-on starter for us. That doesn't mean he should be sent packing - he's still a good player, but for a club of our ambition, we need a striker playing at a higher level than what Rooney has for the last year or so.

 

[jem]

Problem is what do you want to do with him. Sell him? Bench him as captain and 200k a week?

I don't think he needs to remain captain. He didn't exactly invoke memories of Roy Keane out there. I'd strip him of the captaincy (give it to someone like Herrera or even Smalling,) and make him fight for a spot as a striker (none of this moving him back into midfield nonsense.)