Another one that makes very little sense.
Vitor Ferreira aka Vitinha
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He's too slight to make a instant impact for us but over time may turn out to be a good player for us.
But, preferably I would want someone with a little more experience in a deeper midfield role.
But, preferably I would want someone with a little more experience in a deeper midfield role.
We don't need a direct replacement for Pogba, rather we need a tactically astute midfielder who can control possession. We don't have one and haven't had one since Carrick and Scholes. It would be similar to saying we needed a direct replacement for Lukaku, a flat-track bully who can't trap a ball. Silly.
Is Kante too slight?
Look at his defensive stats posted earlier. Although he doesn't look a DM in his positioning.
Moutinho and Deco (because he played in Porto) get comped with him regularly. Vitinha is a tidy player with quick feet and good on the dribble, good passer of the ball as well and has fantastic work rate.
He made fantastic strides this season ar Porto and if it’s worth anything both Vitinha and Fabio Vieira are two players from Porto I really enjoy watching. Very talented youngster who were key players in Porto’s title run.
I do think it’s premature for him to go to the EPL and he should stay in Porto a little longer to develop.
He is not worth 40M atm that’s an absurd price. 25M or even 20M could get him now especially because Porto are piss broke, they have no money.
Vitinha and Fabio Vieira are two players scouts should be monitoring at Porto.
Wenger said the same thing about Modric, cant play CM in the premier league
He's stronger than Modric
I’m sure I’ve seen you raving about Matheus Nunes on here a few times ? How much do you think he’d be available for ? Do you think he and Vitinha could play together well ? Surely they’d cost as much combined as what Barca are wanting for De Jong ?
For me DeJOng is the direct replacement for Pogba, a deep lying play maker, just in a different way....and he is also far closer to a Carrick or a Scholes than Pogba anyway.
We dont need a direct replacement for Pogba in the pivot.....as he couldnt play there consistently anyway and Pogba further forward we already signed a replacement in Fernandes....and he did a very good job of that last season....by being really inconsistent and sloppy amongst the odd moment of brilliance.
Really do we need a Pogba replacement at all anyway, what did he do here over a season that needs replacing. Thats harsh as he had quality, but purely in terms of a player for this club over any period of time, we dont need a replacement at all, we need an improvement and thats the concern now with Fernandes for sure
Eh he played a half season in the Prem and if he signs for us (or another team) then it means he's up for giving it a go.
The notion of Vitinha being more like Matic than De Jong is absurd. To me, he’s almost exactly the same type as Frenkie. Both bring the ball out from deep, great at dribbling in tight spaces and excellent in long passes. They’re both Pirlos types, though more agile. They need Gattuso types alongside them.
I reckon the Vitinha thing is either to put pressure on Barcelona to sell us FDJ or that we’ve accepted it’s not happening so we’re looking elsewhere.
He looks a superb player. I’d still prefer Frenkie but this guy would cost far less (especially in wages), probably develop really fast under ETH and allow us to strength more in other positions.
I reckon the Vitinha thing is either to put pressure on Barcelona to sell us FDJ or that we’ve accepted it’s not happening so we’re looking elsewhere.
He looks a superb player. I’d still prefer Frenkie but this guy would cost far less (especially in wages), probably develop really fast under ETH and allow us to strength more in other positions.
Some will call it bias but I rate nunes higher then Vitinha. However he won’t leave for less then 45M I reckon
Vitinha is around a year and a half younger, and i'd say he's more suited to playing in a advanced midfield role. Nunes is best suited to playing deeper from what I've seen. He looks a very interesting player that could potentially be a Frenkie de Jong alternative.
A midfield of Nunes - Kone with Vitinha as the AM, would be a exciting midfield to observe.
Not writing off Bruno but he didn't fulfil the role very well this season at all.
Agreed. First thing I thought watching his highlights was this must be one of the FDJ alternatives. This actually makes me happy because it suggests a targeted approach in this window. We aren't just looking for the biggest names or positions. Instead we have profiles that we're after.
Modric was strong at Spurs, opposition could not knock him off the ball.
Nunes is a box to box midfielder, a true #8.
Vitinha is more of a Moutinho/Deco hybrid however I don’t think he is better then either at their prime. Vitinha however is a talented young player who will have a good career.
I mentioned Vitinha to you about two years ago in the below post. And at that time he hadn't played much first team at all and i'd watched him in youth football. Fabio Silva was the other player I mentioned but he made a silly move going to Wolves at 18 years old imo.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/fro...-of-making-signings-from.455159/post-25647183
I agree Nunes is a #8, but he can operate in a deeper role as well from what I've seen. As long as he's got someone positionally disciplined next to him in a double pivot/midfield two.
Tag line totally checks out!
Nunes hasn’t really operated as a 6 if that’s what your inferring as he has always played with a #6 like Palhinha and Ugarte.
Fábio Silva made such a silly move going to the EPL at 18. He should have never left Porto that soon. Vitinha should not make the same mistake leaving Porto so soon IMO.
You conveniently missed that the stats were incorrect.
Sorry as this must have already been mentioned in the thread, but is this the same player who was on loam at Wolves?
Not as a #6 but someone who is a #6/#8 in a double pivot. So you're right that he isn't a sole #6, but next to someone like Ugarte, he can drift from being a #6 in the first phase of the build up, whilst Ugarte maintains his position and Nunes advances higher up the pitch as the #8. Sorry if that's confusing.
It was a daft move at such a young and i'd say he was badly advised. Luckily for Vitinha it was only a loan or else we probably wouldn't be having this conversation, and I'd be asking myself where I went wrong in my evaluation of Vitinha..
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Yes it is and for some reason Wolves did not take up their option to buy, was he not deemed good enough at that point?
I hear you, but it wasn’t exactly a vintage season was it?!
I am always very skeptical with Portuguese strikers sadly! Our track record in producing strikers is trash.Not as a #6 but someone who is a #6/#8 in a double pivot. So you're right that he isn't a sole #6, but next to someone like Ugarte, he can drift from being a #6 in the first phase of the build up, whilst Ugarte maintains his position and Nunes advances higher up the pitch as the #8. Sorry if that's confusing.
It was a daft move at such a young and i'd say he was badly advised. Luckily for Vitinha it was only a loan or else we probably wouldn't be having this conversation, and I'd be asking myself where I went wrong in my evaluation of Vitinha..
Midfielders and wingers is more our thing
Do you guys think Nunes and Vitinha could play together as a two man midfield ? Both at around £40 million a piece is cheaper or around the same price as De Jong, would those two be balanced with Fernandes as a 10 ? I’d rather ask those that have seen enough of them rather than people only watching YouTube clips.
Portuguese wonder kids work out well for United.
An unknown sighing nobody has heard of. The next De Jong for a fraction of the price and younger.
An unknown sighing nobody has heard of. The next De Jong for a fraction of the price and younger.
Caf: Why can't our scouts choose someone that isnt the obvious choice.
Caf: Also this guy is shit, why not just buy FDJ
Reports seem to be saying they only want to take the buyout close of 35m or whatever it is.
Caf: Also this guy is shit, why not just buy FDJ
Reports seem to be saying they only want to take the buyout close of 35m or whatever it is.
The only way I can see a midfield containing both Nunes and Vitinha being balanced is by either buying a positionally disciplined midfielder to play alongside them in a midfield 3, or playing Fred next to them in a midfield 3.
Fred disciplined?
If you had to choose between Nunes and Vitinha who do you pick ? From what I’ve seen (which is little if I’m honest) I’d go right Nunes and maybe pair him with Palhinha who seems very disciplined, reckon we could get both of them for a combined £60 million.
To give people an idea what you might expect from ten Hag's pair of midfielders. Good on possession of the ball as the team is expected to keep possession and play one-two link up football, good at or can do pressing as he expects his team to do lot of high intense of pressing, and being intelligent off the ball and in possitioning.
Does he require his midfield to be ball winner? great tackler? physically good? No. He wouldn't mind midfield with those attributes but I'm sure the least things he wants is good in possession, can play one-two touch of passing, willing to press as a team, and intelligent on and off the ball. Does Vitinha tick those minimum categories?
Does he require his midfield to be ball winner? great tackler? physically good? No. He wouldn't mind midfield with those attributes but I'm sure the least things he wants is good in possession, can play one-two touch of passing, willing to press as a team, and intelligent on and off the ball. Does Vitinha tick those minimum categories?
Yes discipline, Fred has played many games for us where he's maintained a level of discipline in a double pivot. The only difference in the hypothetical scenario presented in my previous post, would be that he would have to do less on the ball due to two ball players in midfield being alongside him, which would potentially lead to us controlling the game better both with and without the ball. So the creative burden would fall on Nunes and Vitinha, whilst Fred's game would be simplified.
I would rather us sign someone better than Fred but if we ended up signing two of de Jong/Nunes - Vitinha, then I can see the sense in waiting another season and going with Fred in a double pivot with either de Jong or Nunes partnering him.
There's no point signing a so called DM, if the aim is to control the game in possession and you don't have the players with the craft and guile to make it come together. Otherwise you end up in a situation where you're a holding midfielder but the ball doesn't progress very far and the opponent keeps coming back at you because you can't sustain attacks or retain possession. And Erik ten Hag knows this too well hence the priority signing is de Jong.
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Nunes does seem a interesting player.
Probably end up at Wolves
Vitinha could play with nunes in a 2 man midfield but I wonder if nunes can. Traditionally nunes has played with a defensively focused midfielder next to him.
Vitinha was in a 442 with uribe who is a box to box player and he flourished.
You see what Porto do is that they implement a ferocious pressing game whether that be pressing high or what they did to Milan in the champions league in the home game where they pressed their midfielders with high intensity, which saw Porto neutralise Milan's midfielders and ran out comfortable winners. But the 442 formation Conceição sets up in, sees the wingers tuck in which makes it more balanced for the central two midfielders. But that's not taking anything away from Vitinha ,whose versatility is another thing that should appeal to potential buyers. But I think in the EPL it would be sensible to utilise Nunes and Vitinha in a 3 man midfield.
And another thing that's in Vitinha's favour is that he's been utilised by a good coach in Conceição who demands his players to maintain a high level of intensity whilst also wanting to dominate the game with and without the ball. So I'm not surprised Luis Diaz who came over from Colombia at 22 years of age and worked under Conceição at Porto for a couple of years, went straight into the Liverpool team and looked completely at home.
Only the ones from Lisbon.
Wolves fan here. Vitinha only had played 500 minutes during the whole season and didn't really get going, but the talent was clearly there. He put in a MOTM performance against West Brom but that was the only highlight of a underwhelming campaign for him. Nuno didn't give him enough of a chance really, though he didn't set the world alight when he started or came on as a sub.
We had the option to buy him for £20 million last summer but passed on it. Fosun (Wolves owners) are increasingly tight these days so it would have represented a bit of a punt at that price.
Looks like he came on leaps and bounds last season at Porto though.
These hypothetical midfields don’t include Bruno, who is almost certain to be a fixture in our midfield, and has not demonstrated any ability to be part of a ‘possession team’. So when constructing a 3 which includes him, you absolutely need some positional and defensive discipline, especially if FDJ is to be one of the other two. I don’t think we could play Vitinha, Nunes and Bruno and play possession football, because it doesn’t work to Bruno’s strengths. And then if Bruno plays and you want a defensive player with him and De Jong, I think you would ideally want one more capable than Fred.