You finished 31 points behind us last season & you currently trail us by 38 points. So how many more points do we need before we can truly be confident of being 'ahead' of you by some way ?
Virgil van Dijk | Performances
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You finished 31 points behind us last season & you currently trail us by 38 points. So how many more points do we need before we can truly be confident of being 'ahead' of you by some way ?
That's a fair point. I'll settle for VVD being a club legend at the moment.
From a purely objective point-of-view that's not really for a United fan to decide. One man's glory is another man's insufferable gloating.
Two key things on this:
1. After over a decade's dominance, of course United's fans weren't unbearable from a noisy point-of-view as winning was so customary.
2. Had social media, with all its heightened banter and provocation, existed back in 1993 then of course these types of platforms will have been filled with 'unbearable' United fans after 26 years of hurt.
I remember us Liverpool fans referring to Tony Adams as a donkey in his early years. Then we signed Phil Babb & got ourselves a real donkey.
Yes, yes you are.
No-one writes the rules. You can assess players however you want. I'm just explaining that this has nothing to do with United vs. Liverpool, nor being delusional, nor an ability to recognise the quality of van Dijk's performances now.
And yes, Pallister and Bruce are not in the same bracket as "Cannavaro, Ramos, Maldini, Ferdinand, Vidic etc." as per the criteria that @TheReligion used when the conversation went on that tangent. I'm sure @TheReligion would say van Dijk was at least the same level as Bruce when he won the first league title, if that's the definition you want to use. It just wasn't the one he was using.
That is why United have lost their way, having a better team is what it is all about. Not having more sponsorship deals, being on top of forbes rich list etc. Once the team ceases to being your number one priority then you are no longer a football club and just a business.
I debate and challenge quite a lot on this website but I don't go in for genuine WUMMING for the sake of it. I may have let myself down occasionally with the odd opinion that's not particularly without its blinkers. But I guess we all do that every now and again: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/jür...rge-of-the-fa-cup-replay.410588/post-20668019
I was at Anfield for a league match against United back in 1997 with my son who was 8 at the time. We lost 3-1. During the closing stages of the game the United fans were singing "You're not famous anymore" to us Liverpool fans. My son, who is now 31, still talks about that. Like a lot of young people he is heavily into the social media stuff, so he's now using that same song to wind up United supporters on Facebook & Twitter. I also recall the camera's being outside Old Trafford the day United were officially Premier League champions for the first time. The song 'Are you watching Liverpool' was quite audible within those joyfully dancing around in celebration. So of course Liverpool fans - especially the younger ones - are going to be unbearable. But it's no different to United fans back in 90's & beyond.
I'm not being sensitive or dramatic. I'm just giving you a reality check. If I feel you're mugging me off don't worry, I'll let you know.
Again, good post. Not sure what he can't seem to grasp. I'm not being critical of VVD just because I'm not willing to put him among the best CBs in history currently. I simply don't think he's done enough yet for a prolonged period of time.
I honestly don't see how any of that is relevant. Of course there is, and should be, taunting and wummery at the game and on social media. The difference here is you've all signed up to a privately owned Manchester United forum for United fans. Hence the house analogy you don't seem to grasp. If you're coming in here to post then there's rules and things you must adhere to. It's not a Liverpool forum and there's plenty of those to pick if you don't feel like you can stop trying up wind us up or don't like having to hold back.
It's really not that difficult to see the difference surely?
As said in my last post. This is not the match or social media. It's a privately owned United forum. Obviously the rules on how you should behave are (rightly) different. Not sure what relevance the comparison is to be honest.
The relevance of the comparison is related to the post I replied to.
*it is social media.
It's not
Well this thread has gone a bit off piste. When was the last time you saw any user get banned though, never mind a Liverpool supporter? Views = ad revenue after all. How that Dumb idiot hasn't been banned on here is mind boggling.
You said: "It's a privately owned United forum" that doesn't disqualify it from being social media. Twitter, Facebook, Instagram are privately owned. It's a social platform where ideas and opinions are discussed and debated. In that sense, very much like Twitter although (rightly) more tightly moderated. I regard it as social media anyway.
I simply said what it was. I didn't say that's the sole reason it's not social media. The reason it's not social media is it simply doesn't meet the definition. Anyway it's semantics. The point remains the same. There's a difference between going on your own social media account and winding up opposition fans or doing it in person at the match than signing up to a privately owned United forum and doing it on there. The latter makes you pretty sad, pathetic and spineless.
I'm not sure it does. It's just the Internet. It's just men and women having fun on a the Internet - I don't think sweeping judgements about their levels of rectitude is entirely fair.
Obviously it's my opinion but for someone to have the time to sign up to another teams private forum to wind random people up from the internet and boast about their own team is something I find pretty pathetic. The whole idea of the Caf is it's an online community primarily for United fans. Why anyone would want to pretend to want to become part of that community for the purpose of whatever self gratification they get from winding the forum up is beyond me and suggests theres something inherently wrong with them.
Well you are claiming VVD to be one of the great defenders and so surely he has been worth 15 points to you this season. If he is worth 15 points to you then he is worth 15 points to us which nearly levels us up which speaks to my initial point that there is really not as much in it as people like to make out.
My point re Klopp also still stands, if he were to leave there is a very high possibility that you would be back punching at your weight and not above it (Dominating the prem and Europe on you what you pay players in salaries and based on the crowd numbers that attend your games is punching above your weight) and there is no reason as to why that would last without klopp.
While I get your point I dont entirely agree, having a better team is not what it is all about. Look at Blackburn in 95, they had a better team that year but that's all the had and it's been obscurity since. Or Leeds in 01/02 they had a great team then but they didnt have the financial ability to sustain it.
Liverpool are undoubtedly a great team now but i believe you will have a difficult time maintaining this for any significant length of time, i accept I could be wrong of course but your bility to handle the upcoming pay hike requests on the way for many of your players will test how loyal these players are. You just cant afford to pay what madrid and barca, PSG pay or even us for that matter, that matters over time.
I just want to add, with the disclaimer that I'm Dutch and of course biased, and, with the additional disclaimer that I think Sergio Ramos is a douchebag, that I think Virgil van Dijk is better than Ramos has ever been in his entire career.
Please feel free to carry on insulting each other now.
Please feel free to carry on insulting each other now.
Right now Liverpool have the best manager with a team that's perfectly suited to his football. They've bought extremely well and got a little lucky that pretty much all their signings have worked out.
They're clearly very spurred on to win the league, but I wonder once it happens whether they will maintain this same motivation.
The team suits Klopp because he has built it that way. I don’t think it’s luck that they have recruited well, they have a good recruitment team.
They appear to be a very well run outfit, not a lucky one.
Unfortunately I dont think they will struggle with motivation whilst Klopp is around.
Dear Lord may Germany flop in the summer and send out an SOS for Klopp. Do your patriotic duty like a good German.
Obviously it's anecdotal but I know a lot of both United and Liverpool fans. You're right in that the way social media has changed has given people more of a platform to be pure gobshites, although Facebook, Myspace, MSN, Bebo were all around during our glory years.
It's more the 1993-factor where comparisons are reasonable. 26 years of hurt and all that. It was a far less toxic era in general in that we didn't all have social media to push the envelope and be outrageous!
Having a better manager who can build a better team is what it's all about. Isn't that what Klopp's done during his time at Liverpool ? I don't think even you believe that we'll nosedive the way Blackburn & Leeds did. Our owners are shrewd cookies too. I'm pretty sure they'll have something up their sleeve to ensure the players are well rewarded - financially - for what they achieve at Liverpool. Besides, the players will have seen how Coutinho's career has not gone the way he'd hoped when he finally sealed his 'dream' move to Barca. They'll probably realize that they have to thank Jurgen Klopp for what they've achieved out there on the pitch. There's no guarantee they'll ever get the opportunity to play for someone like him again. Today's top players are multi-millionaires by the time they retire. Sometimes it gets to the point where it isn't about the money, it's about the memories & silverware they can accrue during the relatively short time they have at the top.
So just going back over the past few pages of this thread, & the Liverpool thread, can you point out some examples of taunting & wummery ? Because I'll be dammed if I know where the boundaries currently lay. United fans are understandably deflated & down at what's going at their club. Seeing us & City doing so well has obviously rubbed salt into a very open wound. But seeing other people happy for whatever reason doesn't mean they're smug, or they're taking the piss, it simply means they're happy at what's going on in their life at the moment.
It's really not that difficult to see the difference surely ?
Well hopefully liverpool are pinning their hope's on players wanting to stick around for the memories. VVDs camp appear to be already stirring the pot with these Juve rumours.
No of course I dont think you will nose dive like those two clubs if Klopp leaves but you will struggle as you will unlikely never again manage to hire anyone like him.
We struck gold with Klopp, no doubt about that. We will most likely not keep up the level set this season and last, even if he stays, and we will definitely not when he goes. Less can do it, mind. I hope we can avoid a nosedive and keep competitive, but you of all people know, that no one can take succes for granted. When the time comes we will find out if it was all down to Klopp or if the club really has moved up a level. I'd like to think It's a bit of both.
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That's a 'no-shit sherlock' statement right there. Of course we'll struggle if we lose our world-class manager. A lot of United fans never thought they'd struggle though when Ferguson called it a day, believing that their money would help keep them at the top table. Hasn't quite turned out like that, & it just shows the importance of getting the best there is out there in the managerial department. But for now, Klopp is our manager & he signed a contract extension a couple of months back that'll keep him here until 2024. So worrying about him leaving ain't even at the very back of my mind just now. I'm like every other Liverpool fan who's just enjoying the journey he's taking us on.
There's plenty of your lot who are on here to wind people up and offer nothing to the general discussion or community. I'll not name them but we both know who they are and in days gone by they'd have been given their marching orders by the old skool mod team already but I'm happy to wait until May when they'll likely get booted.
Anyway this started as you took some bizarre issue with how I was unwilling to rate VVD in the same bracket as Maldini et al. Since then quite a few people, including your own kind, have agreed with me so hopefully you've taken it on board and can be less emotional when people don't necessarily have the same opinion on a Liverpool player as your own.
The opening pages of this thread haven't aged well. 
So why will the mods wait until May when it's in their power to ban people right now ? Maybe they see things differently to you. Maybe they don't believe that those you accuse of taunting are actually guilty.
Because the masks will slip when you lift the trophy and the true WUMs will surface. Then the ban hammer can drop. @golden_blunder.
In fairness just ban the fecking lot of you anyway.
But you've already said that the culprits are known, so their respective masks must have slipped some time ago
But you've already said that the culprits are known, so their respective masks must have slipped some time ago
Known to me yes but they do just enough to sneak by. Anyway you're just going off topic again. Are you now satisfied as to why myself, and many many others, don't rate VVD as a legendary best of all time defender currently?
Absolutely. I'm quite happy to bide my time until he actually is recognized as the best ever. I'll look forward too to you posting lots of generous praise relating to the big fellah.
Excellent. The thread can now move on.