Messi ruined his chances when he and his team bottled a 3-0 lead against Liverpool. How do you quantify having a better season between a defender and a striker?? Messi plays in a two horse league where Lukaku could become top scorer if he played for Madrid. Champions league was his chance at Ballon D’or but he ruined it. Virgil Van Dijk has had an amazing season and a champions league medal.
Van Dijk deserve it over Messi.
It’s infuriating how effortless everything is for him. I had no idea he was this good when he was at Southampton.
The fact that you believe Lukaku can be the top scorer in Spain says it all. Ohh and lets disregard the fact that the Premier League is a two horse league, see what I did there? The fact of the matter is Van Dijk had a great season, no question about it. Was his season on an individual level better than Messi's (trophies aside)? No. Both won one trophy, but your Champions League claim effectively renders the debate pointless, as long as you have a great season and win the CL you should automatically get it? No, it just means you are one of the favourites, not the deserving candidate in this case. In any case Van Dijk himself stated Messi deserves it, even without the CL trophy and you know very well why.
Let’s not get carried away, he needs to show longevity to fulfill a boast like that.At this level, he is over peak Ferdinand, Vidic and Terry, just comparable to peak Kompany around 2011 IMO. Im not discrediting the players aforementioned, just showing how good Van Dijk is at the moment.
I’d love to see Daniel James or Bale run at him to see how quick he really isHe is an animal.
But you could see his talent at Southampton. He is just doing it now at a higher level and with less mistakes. He will be the best for years to come, complete defender with pace to burn.
I’d love to see Daniel James or Bale run at him to see how quick he really is
He's the best CB in the world (easily) and if he can be as good as this for a good few more seasons, he will be up there with the best defenders in history.
His level this season is Ballon d'or worthy, and I'm not some giddy Liverpool fan, every time I watch him he deals with everything and it's scary to watch. I haven't seen a defender as dominant as him in years.
I was one of the first to say people needed to calm down/not overreact to him, but he's done it all season and in all the biggest games. I'm happy to give him another season before any conclusions are drawn but I really don't see anything changing, he's just an elite central defender who would walk in to any side in the world with his eyes closed.
Is he perfect? No, no defender ever has been, and if you think the likes of Maldini never, ever made a mistake then you're wearing the nostalgia glasses. But 99% of the time he makes the right decision and combine that with ridiculous physicality and being very comfortable on the ball and you basically have a lab made central defender for modern football. He's horrible to play against.
My point exactly when people are saying he’s surpassing the likes of Terry, Rio, VidicNot true though. Off the top of my head: conceded a silly pen against Sane in one of the most important league game last season. Made also a late challenge against Mertens in the crucial game at home and could/should have seen red. Liverpool fans talking about Kompany's challenge against Salah seem to have forgotten that VVD's on Mertens was worse and much more deserving a red card. Also, nobody who watched VVD against Napoli away, PSG away, Barca away would claim that he saw the best CB in the world. Half of his performances in the big games weren't particularly special. Most of them were very good but not close to "best in history" or something like this shit.
Brilliant defender, obviously, but the hype is strong. Klopp has created a defensively excellent machine which protects their CBs much better than the defensive organisation of other teams. The game has evolved over the last decade and the CBs of the best teams do a lot less defending than those of the best teams from say 15 years ago.
Well his pace enables Liverpool to play high and keep a compact midfield.To me, the way Liverpool play, pressing high, keeping the ball in the oppo half saves him from being overworked.
Not true though. Off the top of my head: conceded a silly pen against Sane in one of the most important league game last season. Made also a late challenge against Mertens in the crucial game at home and could/should have seen red. Liverpool fans talking about Kompany's challenge against Salah seem to have forgotten that VVD's on Mertens was worse and much more deserving a red card. Also, nobody who watched VVD against Napoli away, PSG away, Barca away would claim that he saw the best CB in the world. Half of his performances in the big games weren't particularly special. Most of them were very good but not close to "best in history" or something like this shit.
Brilliant defender, obviously, but the hype is strong. Klopp has created a defensively excellent machine which protects their CBs much better than the defensive organisation of other teams. The game has evolved over the last decade and the CBs of the best teams do a lot less defending than those of the best teams from say 15 years ago.
A brilliant defender for Liverpool this season, but he needs to show that consistency to be up there with the best like Maldini.
I remember this exact moment!Such a weird stat. I mean, we clearly saw Son dribble past him last night. If he hadn't taken another touch and instead shot, that would've counted. But instead he allowed VVD to make a recovery challenge.
Such a weird stat. I mean, we clearly saw Son dribble past him last night. If he hadn't taken another touch and instead shot, that would've counted. But instead he allowed VVD to make a recovery challenge.
If player doesn't attempt to tackle and the attacker dribble past the defender, then it won't count as "dribbled past". It's only counted for tackle lose.
Rashford, Sterling, Sane all dribbled past VVD this season.
Sterling went past with ease vs VVD, then Sane won penalty against Liverpool at Anfield when he dribbled past VVD, Rashford also dribbled past him in Anfield game.
It's a nothing stat, it's just a stat for losing a tackle. CBs usually makes less tackles so they don't lose many tackles. For example Wes Morgan was dribbled past just once, Lascelles was dribbled past only 3 times in PL this season and Luiz just 5 times. Fiorentina defender won almost twice as many tackles as VVD and was dribbled past just 7 times.
Wes Morgan is probably in top 5 CBs in the top 5 leagues if we consider dribbled past. It's just a stat for 'losing a tackle', not actually playing going past them.
Well I agreed that he is one of the quickest CBs in the league. Point I replied to was to address "wasn't dribbled past", it's a naming confusion. If player don't attempt tackle and the attacker just dribble past the player then it won't be counted for "dribbled against". In whoscored.com it just means tackles lost. If you don't attempt one, you don't lose.
Rashford vs Liverpool this season when he dribbled past VVD and crossed the ball. Since VVD didn't attempt to tackle, it's not counted as "Dribbled against".
There is one from Sterling too, which is even more clear but not able to find it.
That's a stat that is to measure how many times CB lost tackles.
For example, VVD attempted only 23 tackles in PL and just 1 in CL. He also made only 2 interceptions in CL this season. So he won 3 ground duels in CL in 6 games.
To give context to this stat, Mustafi won 42 tackles and was dribbled past only 7 times in league.
Wes Morgan was dribbled past only once this season, winning as many tackles as VVD
Lascelles was dribbled past twice, winning 25 tackles.
In CL, just to twist some stats,
there are 91 CBs who won more tackles than VVD and most of them played just 1 game.
There are 95 CBs who won more interceptions than VVD, again most of them didn't play all 6 games.
VVD was 3rd in most Aerial duels lost in CL for CBs
That's how silly some stats are, if you use without context.
Without doubt he is very good CB though, but using some bs stats is just silly.
Cheers, that's good to know.It's a misused stat. It's a naming problem. It's a stat to measure tackles lost, not the actual dribbling past the player. Somehow people don't care and think he wasn't dribbled past at all.
Let him do it for longer and Rio has better reading of the gameAbility. Trophies will come.
Regardless he's the only defender in Europe's top 5 leagues with a perfect record in it this season.It's a misused stat. It's a naming problem. It's a stat to measure tackles lost, not the actual dribbling past the player. Somehow people don't care and think he wasn't dribbled past at all.
Regardless he's the only defender in Europe's top 5 leagues with a perfect record in it this season.
Because he wasn't, I don't even think he was particularly brilliant in his first six months at Liverpool (when I say particularly I mean compared to how good he is now), I remember us facing him at Stamford Bridge at the back end of last season and Giroud had the better of him. He never really stood out facing us as a Saints player either.It’s infuriating how effortless everything is for him. I had no idea he was this good when he was at Southampton.
I dont think you can judge him not being the best because some games he wasnt perfect. Did Rio or Ramos or Terry always play perfect in every away game?
As far as a Klopp teams being a defensive machine, yes and no. When we had Lovren and Sakho this defensive machine didnt work so well.
Aside from his talent he is also a great organiser and communicator, he commands our defense. This above all else is whats makes him such a good defender.
And in terms of defensive ability last night showcased this when Son burned past Van Dijk and Matip he looked through on goal, Van Dijk put on the afterburners and just took the ball from him like he was taking candy from a baby.
Van Dijk has everything in the locker, power, pace, strength, acceleration, tackling, heading, speed, passing, leadership, communication, organisation, occasional goals.
I just hope Mbappé faces him next season. We'll see how good he is.
The game has changed a lot since the 00's, there are stats showing that the CBs made much more tackles, blocks and clearances a decade ago than the CBs at top clubs now. See the comparisons between VVD and Kompany or VVD and Vidic. Kompany and Vidic had a lot more to do back then. Now system and tactics play a bigger role than a decade ago. Besides, Klopp has changed your style this season, has added Alisson, the full backs have made serious progress, etc. It's silly to explain your defensive solidity mainly with VVD's qualities. City conceded only 1 league goal less than Liverpool, only 4 in the last 14 games, and no one talks about their defenders being among the best ever, etc. Why? Because people seem to understand that it's more about Guardiola's system and not about, say, Laporte, Wallker or Zinchenko being up there with the very best.
You mean like in the nations league game Netherlands - France, where the duo VvD / De Ligt had Mbappe in their back pocket?I just hope Mbappé faces him next season. We'll see how good he is.
Whos better than Van Dijk in the world right now?
