Virgil van Dijk | Performances

[KM]

Biggest fraud in sports history. Hope Koeman sacks him in the morning.

Again clearly 100% his fault. Ashamed to be his countryman.

I heard he also likes to club baby seals in his spare time. Overrated bastard!

Seriously, this thread belongs on RAWK.

I'm not sure what's the point of these posts and what are you trying to prove. Loads of United fans repeatedly say that he's world class and one of the best in the world.

However last night he had a below par match. Do you want people to mindlessly praise him all the time?

 

[Ish]

One of the best in the business but still yeah, he's overrated - specifically when already labelled as "the best Dutch player ever in the EPL" or "up there with Rio/Vidic" etc. Especially by the media.

He's also protected immensely by Klopp's midfield/system, tbf. Still, would love him at United.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

People under rate Kompany. He was a beast in his prime.

Guys I thought we talked about this.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/so...s-philosophies-of-the-past-1.3874358?mode=amp

The rise of system football means that the English league today has less broken play, and more periods of controlled possession. In 2008, Premier League teams averaged almost 24 tackles per game. By 2017-18 the average number of tackles had dropped by almost a third, to just over 16 per game. Huddersfield Town topped the tackle table in 2017-18, with 744.

The team with the lowest number of tackles in 2008 was Reading, with 800 – so the team that made the fewest tackles 10 years ago tackled more than the team that makes the most tackles today. Interceptions have also declined, by about one-sixth. Less broken play means fewer chances for individuals to seize the moment and be the hero

 

[KM]

Bollocks, pure lack of awareness where Messi was. He didn't even track him, ball watching at its best.

Look at VvD and Messi's positions. I'm not sure how people can claim that VvD couldn't have done anything about the second goal. Messi is behind him when Suarez shoots at the goal.

 

[11101]

Except they were poor mistakes he could have done something about. Suarez and Messi should have been more closely marked for both goals. I mean, shit happens and everybody makes mistakes but let's not pretend the defending on the first Messi goal wasn't terrible.

And to be honest, that for me is worse than peak Messi ripping you to shreds in terms of pure skill becuase I have never seen a defender who can deal with peak Messi who is in the mood. This was worse as it was carelessless from Liverpool that didn't pick up Messi at all.

He's allowed to make a mistake to two as is every defender. But it doesn't change the occurrence of the mistake

I don't know what he was doing for Suarez's goal but I'm not sure i'd label Messi's opener poor defending. He just has a way of ghosting unseen into good positions, he's done it against every top defender on the planet. We can sit here and say VVD should have tracked him but he's done it so many times i'd label it great attacking play rather than poor defending.

 

[KirkDuyt]

I'm not sure what's the point of these posts and what are you trying to prove. Loads of United fans repeatedly say that he's world class and one of the best in the world.

However last night he had a below par match. Do you want people to mindlessly praise him all the time?

To make the footballing world realize that fans of all clubs are equally biased and silly. There's loads of United fans that post rationally, of course, there's also loads that bump the thread every time he misplaces a pass. It just does my head in to see people constantly moan about rival fans overrating and underrating this and that whilst doing the exact same fecking thing. Mindlessly praising him is one thing, accusing others of doing so whilst mindlessly bashing him is just an amount of irony I cannot cope with.

But perhaps more importantly, I'm just a bit of an annoying tit at times. So apologies for that.

 

[KM]

To make the footballing world realize that fans of all clubs are equally biased and silly. There's loads of United fans that post rationally, of course, there's also loads that bump the thread every time he misplaces a pass. It just does my head in to see people constantly moan about rival fans overrating and underrating this and that whilst doing the exact same fecking thing.

But perhaps more importantly, I'm just a bit of an annoying tit at times. So apologies for that.

Cheers for taking this noble mission but nobody asked for it so stop doing it. It's neither funny and as you say it's annoying.

 

[Kostur]

Look at VvD and Messi's positions. I'm not sure how people can claim that VvD couldn't have done anything about the second goal. Messi is behind him when Suarez shoots at the goal.

Not tracking runners is only a mistake and tactical error if it happens to our players, apparently.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Cheers for taking this noble mission but nobody asked for it so stop doing it. It's neither funny and as you say it's annoying.

Yes sir.

 

[Enigma_87]

Look at VvD and Messi's positions. I'm not sure how people can claim that VvD couldn't have done anything about the second goal. Messi is behind him when Suarez shoots at the goal.

Indeed. If you take a look at the whole move it makes his actions even more odd. Messi started the move with a good 10 yards behind him yet he didn't even look around at any point and let him waltz past him on the inside.

 

[Rob]

I’ve mentioned this before, but I don’t get why he constantly has to measure up to the likes of Vidic, Rio and Terry, who all had numerous seasons playing for top teams. Van Dijk’s been brilliant since he signed for us and has been the best defender in the league this season. He needs two more season playing at this level before any comparisons to the best defenders the league has ever seen are apt.

 

[KM]

I’ve mentioned this before, but I don’t get why he constantly has to measure up to the likes of Vidic, Rio and Terry, who all had numerous seasons playing for top teams. Van Dijk’s been brilliant since he signed for us and has been the best defender in the league this season. He needs two more season playing at this level before any comparisons to the best defenders the league has ever seen are apt.

Very fair and correct opinion IMO.

 

[Treble]

Guys I thought we talked about this.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/so...s-philosophies-of-the-past-1.3874358?mode=amp

These changes explain why VVD has a lot less defending to do compared to a decade ago. But also that the overall defensive organisation of teams has changed and makes it easier for defenders to avoid 1 vs 1 sitations. When you have more defending to do, more tackles, interceptions, etc. you are more exposed to mistakes. In most of the games Liverpool are stiffling the opposition and VVD has little to do apart from winning long balls.

Note that Kompany has a higher percentage of successful tackles than VVD. The rate of successful defensive actions is similar to or better than VVD's.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

I’ve mentioned this before, but I don’t get why he constantly has to measure up to the likes of Vidic, Rio and Terry, who all had numerous seasons playing for top teams. Van Dijk’s been brilliant since he signed for us and has been the best defender in the league this season. He needs two more season playing at this level before any comparisons to the best defenders the league has ever seen are apt.

Since the likes of Rio and Terry spent their entire careers in the PL and with the exception of early in their careers they always played on good teams those will always be weird comparisons. But, Van Dijk joined Liverpool around the same age Sol Campbell joined Arsenal, Carvalho joined Chelsea and Jaap Stam joined Manchester United so those are fair comparisons.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Only people actively overrating and defending every single mistake he makes are Dutch natives and Liverpool fans, no bias there

 

[AngliaRed]

I’ve mentioned this before, but I don’t get why he constantly has to measure up to the likes of Vidic, Rio and Terry, who all had numerous seasons playing for top teams. Van Dijk’s been brilliant since he signed for us and has been the best defender in the league this season. He needs two more season playing at this level before any comparisons to the best defenders the league has ever seen are apt.

Perfect summary! Now lets all move on.

 

[Rob]

Since the likes of Rio and Terry spent their entire careers in the PL and with the exception of early in their careers they always played on good teams those will always be weird comparisons. But, Van Dijk joined Liverpool around the same age Sol Campbell joined Arsenal, Carvalho joined Chelsea and Jaap Stam joined Manchester United so those are fair comparisons.

My point was that it’s way too soon in his career at top level to start comparing him with the best defenders the league has seen. If he stays at this level for a couple of seasons, then sure.

 

[Adam-Utd]

As I've said before, VVD is a defender that relies mainly on his physical attributes.

While this works brilliantly for Liverpool against teams they're forcing back and out possessing, once they come up against a team who can compete with them and hold the ball, his flaws start to show.

Like most defenders who rely on physique they're prone to lapses in concentration and lack that sharpness required to react to quick movements in the box.

Give him a 1v1 in the half way line and he'll not get beaten, but that 5 yard dash Suarez did is a perfect example of what he used to get caught out with at Southampton.

He's still a great player but maybe now people will stay a bit more in check with the hype.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I don't know what he was doing for Suarez's goal but I'm not sure i'd label Messi's opener poor defending. He just has a way of ghosting unseen into good positions, he's done it against every top defender on the planet. We can sit here and say VVD should have tracked him but he's done it so many times i'd label it great attacking play rather than poor defending.

Every defensive error can be absolved using that logic. It's more logical to accept the defensive lapse and acknowledge mistakes being part of the game rather than to shift blame IMO

 

[Samid]

Better than Rio, Vidic, Terry

If football was invented in 2017 then yeah, he's better than them.

 

[Stacks]

Titus Bramble had 505 clearances that season so I guess that makes him a better player than van Dijk.

I mean, it's just common sense here. The EPL has changed completely. Using stats from over a decade ago when the game and environemtn was completely different is just ridiculous.

Ridiculous.

It's not ridiculous though. What about all the other stats? How did Titus fare? What about errors? Goals conceded? Tackles won? Etc etc. Vidic beat a VVD on EVERYTHING and conceded less. You the type of guy who thinks Salah is better than Suarez because of last season.....

 

[Stacks]

Why didn’t Vidic win POTY that season? Those stats are incredible.

Dunno, feels pretty weird that Giggs won it looking back now

Because United had a sturdy defence for 3 seasons by then. Vidic was a victim of his own success. VVD won it because of his impact on a previously poor defence

 

[BBRBB]

Best player in the world against Huddersfield or Everton but when he meets a real club in Europe suddenly it's not the same.

 

[Tomuś]

Best player in the world against Huddersfield or Everton but when he meets a real club in Europe suddenly it's not the same.

You mean it's more difficult to play at Nou Camp against on-fire Messi than at Cobbled Ground or something against John Walker?

I think he was poorish yesterday but overall is a great CB I wish we had.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Smalling and Jones are better defenders even if they aren't as good on the ball.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Smalling and Jones are better defenders even if they aren't as good on the ball.

You went too far. Smalling is terrific defensively but Jones isn't that great a defender.

 

[Offside]

Why didn’t Vidic win POTY that season? Those stats are incredible.

Vidic never got PFA but he won Premier League player of the year in both 2009 and 2011.

 

[Stookie]

Credit where it’s due, he’s quality.

 

[Tomuś]

Smalling and Jones are better defenders even if they aren't as good on the ball.

They aren't I'm afraid. Smalling is close and when in mood, comparable defensively but Jones is a good notch below.

 

[11101]

Smalling and Jones are better defenders even if they aren't as good on the ball.

Christ. I know Barcelona put 3 past them yesterday but still. He's far superior to either of them. He suffers a little from lack of concentration/awareness but so do those two.

 

[cyberman]

He's had a poor season in Europe if we're being honest

 

[adexkola]

WHat a load of nonsense. Ramos was part of wininng teams. van Dijk this season has been better than any season Ramos has had in his career.

Ramos makes comical errors almost weekly. If he was in the Prem he would be called David Luiz but because he is Spanish and he scores goals he is WC. BS. Ramos is and never has been WC. I watched this clown since he played as a RB that was getting demolished in La Liga.

vna Dijk is superior at everything related to defending.

Having 6 good games in 60+ games is pathetic.

This.

Ramos doesn't need to be mentioned in this thread. The other defenders here focused on stopping goals.

I’ve mentioned this before, but I don’t get why he constantly has to measure up to the likes of Vidic, Rio and Terry, who all had numerous seasons playing for top teams. Van Dijk’s been brilliant since he signed for us and has been the best defender in the league this season. He needs two more season playing at this level before any comparisons to the best defenders the league has ever seen are apt.

I disagree.

Why can't we compare single seasons? If a striker scores 50 goals in the PL, do we have to wait for 3 years to compare his season with Ronaldo's 06/07 season?

Obviously on a career level, VVD has years to go to match the consistent brilliance we saw from Rio, Vidic, Terry and co. But on a single season basis... What's the problem with saying that VVD's level of performance matched Vidic's 08/09 season for example (I don't think he has, just hypothetical)?

 

[Gio]

Yeah of course some things you might not measure in stats, but he was almost faultless that season. VVD with Rio would be more appropriate comparison, but since we opened this can of worms...

Also you have to take in consideration how Pool set up and how well their midfield protects the back four. The didn't have the same luxury in the 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 we employed.

We often played Carrick, Fletcher and Scholes as a midfield 2 that year so it's fair to say he didn't have the luxury to not being put on constant pressure. Liverpool play obviously attacking football and you also have to bear in mind 10 years ago teams like Chelsea, Arsenal were much better than now and making it deep in CL, whilst also shading it as the best league, just before Barca and Real took over.

Rio also missed ton of games that season, only played 20 something in the league, which makes Vidic stats even more impressive.

Rio and Vidic played 3 CL finals (winning one of them), won 5 PL titles and whilst stats aren't always all that were much more consistent than what VVD could muster so far.

VVD could get there and be in the same bracket, but IMO needs a bit more time and to show the same class and consistency like in the last year and half at Pool.

Yeah those are fair points which I agree with. Would also add that United only scored 68 goals in 2008/09 which showed both the strength of their defence and reflected a more defensive style of play. But fundamentally I agree that Vidic in 2008/09 is as good as it has gotten in the Premier League and that Van Dijk needs another season or so to consolidate his place in the top bracket when we compare extended peaks.

 

[nycender]

Smalling and Jones are better defenders even if they aren't as good on the ball.

This is a madness. I hate the scum but deary me.

 

[dogwithabone]

Oh yes. He was the impenetrable force for Southampton. What lofty standards those were. I'm sorry but nobody considered him a top defender at Southampton because he wasn't one. He impressed at Southampton the season before Liverpool got it him but it's not the same at performing at a higher level for a team competing for top honours.

Oh yes. He was the impenetrable force for Southampton. What lofty standards those were. I'm sorry but nobody considered him a top defender at Southampton because he wasn't one. He impressed at Southampton the season before Liverpool got it him but it's not the same at performing at a higher level for a team competing for top honours.

'Nobody considered him a top defender at Southampton' !!!!!!! No mate, apart from Liverpool who splashed out a world record fee for a defender of £75m !!!!! ... and their judgement has been proved very astute.

You do realise week in week out that Southampton and Liverpool are basically competing against the SAME sides ?

 

[giorno]

Bollocks, pure lack of awareness where Messi was. He didn't even track him, ball watching at its best.

It's not even that. In that situation, defenders are taught to move towards were the ball is, to protect the goal. Instead he moves away from it. Think it was either a lapse in concentration or he gave the play for dead thinking it was going in. Most likely the latter

 

[Suedesi]

Look at VvD and Messi's positions. I'm not sure how people can claim that VvD couldn't have done anything about the second goal. Messi is behind him when Suarez shoots at the goal.

Also, this is totally on VVD. He should track Suarez. He's big and tall and cut for the PL but against nimble forwards he was left wanting.

 

[Bobski]

I’ve mentioned this before, but I don’t get why he constantly has to measure up to the likes of Vidic, Rio and Terry, who all had numerous seasons playing for top teams. Van Dijk’s been brilliant since he signed for us and has been the best defender in the league this season. He needs two more season playing at this level before any comparisons to the best defenders the league has ever seen are apt.

It is the nature of this social media age and the hype frenzy that makes any type of accurate placing of a player historically close to impossible and pointless to even attempt. Why is there even an argument that he is the best defender in the history of the PL, what is really driving that narrative? Your point about him needing more great seasons seems so obvious but we are so obsessed with prisoner of the moment grand statements, can't just be one of the best, has to be the best.

 

[Halds]

Also, this is totally on VVD. He should track Suarez. He's big and tall and cut for the PL but against nimble forwards he was left wanting.

He should have been more aware and tracked them at both goals. Easier said than done obviously as it was topclass movement from Suarez and Messi.

 

[nyanza]

He was waiting for them to try and dribble through.