Virgil van Dijk | Performances

Samid said:


:lol:
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I've defended Van Dijk here a few times but Vidic was the one of that list who I'd rather have than Van Dijk, so he's definitely not far better than Vidic. The one on that list who doesn't deserve to be there is Kompany imo, who was a very good defender and leader but didn't hit the elite levels of the other four.#

Vidic also had a massive impact on United, playing Vidic against long ball teams like Stoke was like points on the board, he'd just head any danger away anywhere near him. Also the Torres crap again, Vidic also doesn't get enough credit for pocketing Drogba on several occasions, who I think was the most difficult centre forward to play against in that era. He pocketed him so much in the CL final that Drogba got sent off for hitting him in frustration.

If you're looking at transformative players, imagine Vidic playing for Arsenal instead of United with that really talented but soft core team Wenger had back then.

1) They don't throw away points against the likes of Stoke away
2) Drogba doesn't eat them for breakfast every game.

They might have won 3-4 trophies.
 
Samid said:


:lol:
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He's a moron.

Paul McGrath went to Villa, in his first season they went from 17 to 2nd, he led them to 2 second place and a few top half finishes so pretty much more or less what VVD has achieved at Liverpool.

He played half drunk/hungover a lot of the time, had bad knees, still won PFA player of the season in the first PL year when they narrowly missed out on the title. VVD can barely cope with having one bad knee, would love to see how he'd manage drunk or hungover.

VVD isn't even as good as Paul McGrath, never mind being close to Vidic.
 
And I’ve seen people call Carragher “the best pundit”. fecking hell.

He’s getting cooked though:



 
He’s getting slaughtered for those comments and rightly so, absolute drivel. It was only a few weeks ago he was claiming he’d currently do a better job than VVD in that team. :lol:
 
bringbackbebe said:
VVD has been replicating Vidic against Torres in nearly every game this season. Think we should let them continue in their delusion.
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Even the Torres thing is a myth that has just been perpetuated because it was a long time ago and it's easier to not question things that are said, but it's been deconstructed several times on here. In over a dozen of performances against each other, Torres skinned him once, dominated overall in another, and then mainly had okay-ish to poor performances against Vidic.
 
bringbackbebe said:
VVD has been replicating Vidic against Torres in nearly every game this season. Think we should let them continue in their delusion.
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Torres is always used by people to discredit Vidic and its ridiculous, its like saying Ollie Watkins always tore Van Dijk apart so he's crap
 
I like Carragher but he’s way off the mark here. It’s not just him though. So many people in the media have put him on a pedestal so high that they’re determined to die on the hill of VVD is the best ever.
 
ShinjiNinja26 said:
He’s getting slaughtered for those comments and rightly so, absolute drivel. It was only a few weeks ago he was claiming he’d currently do a better job than VVD in that team. :lol:
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Perhaps, he's getting death threat from fellow Scouse, so now he's trying get back in their good book?!
 
SilentWitness said:
I like Carragher but he’s way off the mark here. It’s not just him though. So many people in the media have put him on a pedestal so high that they’re determined to die on the hill of VVD is the best ever.
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It's really weird for Caragher to die on that hill, considering Van Dijk told him in public interview that he wouldn't even have him in his 20 man Liverpool squad, which was quite embarassing stuff when you are interviewed by that same person, who objectively could be squad player at Liverpool these days.
 
So VVD had a greater impact than Vidić who won 5 titles and one CL.

Carragher is on the booze.
 
Carragher is a really good pundit on everything but Liverpool. With regards to them, he’s an absolute mess. His otherwise sensible arguments turn into that of a rambling wannabe ‘ultra’.
 
When did Rio and Terry have their bad seasons? This is just a bad season?!
 
cyberman said:
When did Rio and Terry have their bad seasons? This is just a bad season?!
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Think Rio had a poor season when he had that Leo Sayer haircut. Or he was poor for spell when he returned from his suspension.

After that it was probably when he went to QPR. He was 35.

JT's worst season was his last at Chelsea, he was about 35 as well.
 
Obvious bias in his comments but would be the same if someone like Neville, Evra or Keane were to talk about any player from the Ferguson era at United when comparing him to a player from another club. And they'd give reasons that are nonsensical at best just like Carragher.

Vidic NEVER had a poor season unlike VVD is right now. The Vidic-Ferdinand partnership was central to our success from the time Vidic joined. He had one bad performance vs Torress and conceded only 3 goals in 15 apps to him. His also has more clean sheets and many more titles.
 
One of the annoying things about posting on the Caf is that a player needs multiple seasons to be worthy of inclusion in any conversation about greatness, and the way those seasons are defined are dishonestly done, to tilt the conversation towards Caf favorites.

Anyway, VVD is past his best (thanks to Pickford's idiocy), but he's put together a good resume of performances on the domestic scene and in Europe from when he joined Liverpool until the end of last season. And "rings Erneh" aside (for non-Americans, that's when you have to resort to trophies as the sole measure of a player's quality), he has done enough to be placed on the shortlist of best defenders to have ever played in English top football.
 
Even up to the very highest level of elite football, longevity is a marker for true greatness.

It’s a massive slap in the face to the likes of Ferdinand and Terry that VDV could be considered a peer on the back of 2-3 seasons.

Liverpool fans are their own worst enemies, building up their players to dizzying heights so they have to tie themselves in knots trying to justify their insane opinions on football.
 
Maluco said:
Even up to the very highest level of elite football, longevity is a marker for true greatness.

It’s a massive slap in the face to the likes of Ferdinand and Terry that VDV could be considered a peer on the back of 2-3 seasons.

Liverpool fans are their own worst enemies, building up their players to dizzying heights so they have to tie themselves in knots trying to justify their insane opinions on football.
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I'm sure they don't mind or care

I wouldn't say he is a peer or equal. Same ball park though. And yes I'd rank both in front of him but I don't think it's a huge drop in performance if you replace them with VVD in those United/Chelsea teams
 
adexkola said:
One of the annoying things about posting on the Caf is that a player needs multiple seasons to be worthy of inclusion in any conversation about greatness, and the way those seasons are defined are dishonestly done, to tilt the conversation towards Caf favorites.

Anyway, VVD is past his best (thanks to Pickford's idiocy), but he's put together a good resume of performances on the domestic scene and in Europe from when he joined Liverpool until the end of last season. And "rings Erneh" aside (for non-Americans, that's when you have to resort to trophies as the sole measure of a player's quality), he has done enough to be placed on the shortlist of best defenders to have ever played in English top football.
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Thing is he said no player had a same impact on a team in PL era like VVD. And of course you need few seasons, would you put VVD among the best if he had just one great season. Or Rio and Vidić for that matter?
 
Just because I can’t remember- how many seasons was Vidic world class for us?

Loved him at his best.
 
adexkola said:
One of the annoying things about posting on the Caf is that a player needs multiple seasons to be worthy of inclusion in any conversation about greatness, and the way those seasons are defined are dishonestly done, to tilt the conversation towards Caf favorites.

Anyway, VVD is past his best (thanks to Pickford's idiocy), but he's put together a good resume of performances on the domestic scene and in Europe from when he joined Liverpool until the end of last season. And "rings Erneh" aside (for non-Americans, that's when you have to resort to trophies as the sole measure of a player's quality), he has done enough to be placed on the shortlist of best defenders to have ever played in English top football.
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Im sorry but this myth about Pickford being the reason for VVDs decline is just as bad. So many of the goals conceded this year are because of bad defending. You don’t get hit with that because of an injury.
 
You know Liverpool are on the wane when the bitter, defensive comments start flooding in again. It’s good to see :)
 
adexkola said:
I'm sure they don't mind or care

I wouldn't say he is a peer or equal. Same ball park though. And yes I'd rank both in front of him but I don't think it's a huge drop in performance if you replace them with VVD in those United/Chelsea teams
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I think their longevity and many, many more games as top class CBs put them on another tier. That has to count for something.

The very best do it time and time again, season after season, and they have far more games at the very top performance level than VDV does.
 
adexkola said:
One of the annoying things about posting on the Caf is that a player needs multiple seasons to be worthy of inclusion in any conversation about greatness, and the way those seasons are defined are dishonestly done, to tilt the conversation towards Caf favorites.

Anyway, VVD is past his best (thanks to Pickford's idiocy), but he's put together a good resume of performances on the domestic scene and in Europe from when he joined Liverpool until the end of last season. And "rings Erneh" aside (for non-Americans, that's when you have to resort to trophies as the sole measure of a player's quality), he has done enough to be placed on the shortlist of best defenders to have ever played in English top football.
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Michu > Henry
 
Samid said:


:lol:
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I would argue that Virgil van Dijk had a much more noticeable impact on Liverpool, because he closed such an obvious gap and his playstyle became so integral to how Liverpool played as a whole. He will also be seen much more as an individual defender who made the difference, whereas Rio and Vidic are almost always mentioned together, just like Terry and Carvalho are often mentioned together (although mostly with a stronger emphasis on Terry).

But the bottom line is, that van Dijk has played about 2.5 world class seasons for Liverpool, and has won two trophies of note. That's it. It just doesn't stack up against who would supposedly be his peers.
 
I’m all for someone arguing Van Dijk is better than any other premier league CB especially a Liverpool fan/former player but the way Carragher worded it was so disrespectful to Vidic.
Although it’s not an opinion I agree with and personally think Alison’s impact on Liverpool defensively was bigger, I do think Van Dijk has been excellent (this season excluded) and has to be spoken about as one of the top CB‘s the league has seen.
 
gazbradley said:
Michu > Henry
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Make the case I'd love to hear it

Mike Smalling said:
has won two trophies of note
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Unless you're trying to make the point they would have won more trophies with another defender, it's a very superficial point in this kind of conversation. By this logic, Ramos is better than any defender mentioned on this page.
 
adexkola said:
Unless you're trying to make the point they would have won more trophies with another defender, it's a very superficial point in this kind of conversation. By this logic, Ramos is better than any defender mentioned on this page.
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My point is more along the lines of that you need to take everything into account, when naming one player "far better" or "greater" than another player. And among those factors I would include overall top level, number of seasons at a world class level, and certainly also trophy haul.
 
adexkola said:
Make the case I'd love to hear it



Unless you're trying to make the point they would have won more trophies with another defender, it's a very superficial point in this kind of conversation. By this logic, Ramos is better than any defender mentioned on this page.
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Most goals in a debut PL season??? Whilst playing for a lesser side.
Obviously being pedantic but more a point of you not believing multiple seasons of being at the top level are needed to be considered a great. It’s definitely up for argument Michu has had one of the best individual seasons in PL history otherwise most wouldn’t even remember him
 
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