Dani Carvajal on Why Spain Has Such A Big Problem With Racism In A Nutshell
Vinicius Junior
- Thread starter jackofalltrades
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Why Vinicius it’s the one with problems about this in a club with lots of black players?
That’s fecking heartbreaking. Poor guy.
Because he's the one with sufficient clout to push back against it. And then idiots double down.
A bit like Munich and Hillsborough chants in a way. I suspect that many of the people who direct monkey chants at Vini aren't racist in everyday life, they just pretend to at football matches if they think it will rattle an opponent. But that's no excuse, no black man should have to endure monkey chants and bananas being thrown on the pitch. Or an FA that thought a two year stadium ban was an appropriate punishment for someone who hung him in effigy.
He's 23-years old, FFS. He's gone through the kind of trauma you'd expect of a career of a black player in the 70's English 1st division. Only it's 2024, he plays for the biggest club in the world and is treated like a sub-human by them and all those who abuse him. None taking it seriously or giving two fecks to do anything about addressing the issue. It's only for his constitution out on the pitch - where people think: 'it can't be too bad; look how well he performs!' - that the general public don't actually register how appalling things are for him.
Him breaking down like that gives a snapshot of what it's actually like behind the curtain and into his mind. In a civilised world, Real, Spain and their FA would be put on hot coals and dragged through them for this, but as things stand, it's a shrug of the shoulders and a few words of consolation.
It seems to me he loves playing for that club - takes real pride in it - and he gets on really well with his team-mates, so imagine how much worse that makes it when neither back him. How much worse should this get before the reaction is in accordance with what he is going through? You get the feeling even if he went and did something to himself and stated it was because of what's going on there, nothing would change. It's absolutely rotten.
Him breaking down like that gives a snapshot of what it's actually like behind the curtain and into his mind. In a civilised world, Real, Spain and their FA would be put on hot coals and dragged through them for this, but as things stand, it's a shrug of the shoulders and a few words of consolation.
It seems to me he loves playing for that club - takes real pride in it - and he gets on really well with his team-mates, so imagine how much worse that makes it when neither back him. How much worse should this get before the reaction is in accordance with what he is going through? You get the feeling even if he went and did something to himself and stated it was because of what's going on there, nothing would change. It's absolutely rotten.
It’s revolting and so sad. I’ve seen a news story about a horrendous racist issue happening to a school kid in the UK this week. We’re not immune from it here either, but I do think he would be less subjected here in general should he decide to move team.
Seems like a real decent dude. Hope he overcomes it all.
Is La Liga even trying to fix this issue? They will lose some seriously talented players if they don't get their act together and sort out this mess. They need to step up and hand out some severe penalties for racist behavior and start educating people. Otherwise, they're just shooting themselves in the foot.
You've got it 100% backwards. The type of people to make monkey chants pretend not to be racist in everyday life like work where it will have negative consequences for them.
It's at football matches they reveal they are actually racist because they don't believe there will be consequences.
It’s always those who stand up to oppression who have their character assassinated to make them out to be a problem.
Yeah I often read about people not being racist on a day to day basis. It’s classic bigot behaviour. You usually see undertones of their racism / sexism here and there as it’s still largely considered wrong to express those views outright in public or to overly act on them. So it’s usually more subtlety shown or said out loud behind closed doors with one’s inner circle.
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La Liga is horrible. Most of the stuff described requires a stadium ban and massive fines full stop.
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100% this, but with all the made in china face recognition camera, it is actually extremely easy to identify these people in the stadium. They have nowhere to hide.
He said it himself, that's giving that scum what they want, or at least making them feel powerful for a little while in their miserable shitty lives. There has to be a better way of dealing with these..
Very sad to see that today, lad just wants to play.
Sickens me to my stomach to see or hear what he is going through.
Sickens me to my stomach to see or hear what he is going through.
I get the impression that La Lifa don't care/don't see it as an issue. I may be misremembering but I am almost sure Tebas said something to the effect of it not being a big deal or not being a problem or something like that.
Really is tragic to see that this is happening to the star player of the biggest team in the world, and so few people (On the football side of things) seem to be willing to speak up in his corner.
Which is pretty much a reflection of how it's seen generally in Spain, and Carvajal's (very stupid) interview echoes that.
We've been down this road with Spanish posters on here (probably in this thread), it's one of the tragic things about the country. It stems for ignorance and lack of desire to change outdated views, but at the end of the days, it's a current of racism that is depressing.
By law La Liga doesn't have the legal power to sanction clubs or fans, only to report incidents to the authorities. The power to do anything about it is with the Spanish government and the club's themselves.
https://www.laliga.com/en-GB/news/l...oning-powers-to-fight-racism-more-effectively
The government moves too slowly to stop the problem and leaving it up to the clubs is clearly not working.
In the UK the Premier League has the authority to ban racist fans from all Premier League club's stadiums. UK law can impose a 10 year ban for sending a racist tweet. These things, while imperfect, work. The Spanish government needs to get serious about the issue and empower regulatory bodies to do something more than just reporting people.
We can try to get him 
No racists in England.
No racists in England.Absolute disgrace! He needs to get out of that league. Come to Utd Vini, we’ll look after you.
Imagine suffering from the abuse Vinicius faces and that’s a teammates reaction. What a pathetic person Carvajal is.
Ridiculous tbh. At some point, you should leave the league (selfish reasons aside) and play where you're valued.
This is also him emoting at 23 - this has been going on with him for a while now, so imagine what he's been going through at even younger ages, if this is how he's breaking down as the most grown up version of himself we have heard from.
Real Madrid have more power to rock the boat in Spain and make this a forcible talking point than any other club, yet they don't and they won't. Vinicius has been left out in the cold and that alone should have him packing his bags. Whether you agree with it or not, English clubs will stand up against outside forces and protect their players as best they can. That is not afforded to players in Spain unless they are gods. Vinicius would be astounded by the culture shock coming in from a club that extract his talent but leave him to fend for himself without even a hint of class. All that power and sway and not an ounce of it bestowed upon one of their best players.
Real Madrid have more power to rock the boat in Spain and make this a forcible talking point than any other club, yet they don't and they won't. Vinicius has been left out in the cold and that alone should have him packing his bags. Whether you agree with it or not, English clubs will stand up against outside forces and protect their players as best they can. That is not afforded to players in Spain unless they are gods. Vinicius would be astounded by the culture shock coming in from a club that extract his talent but leave him to fend for himself without even a hint of class. All that power and sway and not an ounce of it bestowed upon one of their best players.
Yeah, said it before but from Spanish people I have worked with (from diff regions), there is still a weird cultural acceptance regarding these types of views and language/phrases. England and the UK isn't perfect at all, as we know but I think there is a better 'call out' culture here now in terms of football and on match days.
Jep, embarrassing. Would support him moving away and not deal with this. Rather lose one of the best players itw than keep him under these circumstances.
The club should do more and his own team mates are a letdown as well. This has been going on for so long and it will happen next matchday once again.
It's a real shame - Madrid wants no part of being the main driver for national debate that many would be furious at them for. Politics permeate football to such sickening degrees.
The issue is that Carvajal and others (players, clubs, authorities, fans) have a very superficial understanding of what racism is. La Liga has disgraced itself on this issue, but I'm hesitant to label any top league as the gold standard.
I'm sure Carvajal means well (I think he does, at least), but it doesn't matter. Systemic racism is often enacted by very well meaning (yet ignorant) people.
Rio's message of solidarity on social media -
Is Spain a racist country???
I don’t know as I don’t live there to know or see that experience. But I know there is RACISM in the stadiums there & it seems to be accepted by the authorities for some reason??? To see a young man break down in a press conference like @vinijr is heartbreaking to see.
Hearing the Javier Tebas (La Liga President) sh*t last season tells me there needs to be BIG changes at the top / convictions from the big organisations!
I salute you bro @vinijr
The racist country bit is so daft. Why do people have to get all nationalistic and become defensive about their people / race / country? Acknowledge the problem and contribute to solving it if you can. The least you can do is help the cause that is hurting your team mate so much.
For behaviour to be widespread and so commonly expected and accepted, questions of a nation that allows that to happen have to be asked. How can they not be? Spaniards on here have often cited the problem - well those with the self awareness to do so have - whilst others have shown the exact same casual indifference that leads to more questions.
The more telling thing is what those without a dog in the fight do; do they stand up to those who conduct themselves like animals? Are they passive? Do they have any understanding of the damage such behaviour causes and so and so forth.
European countries are at various stages/levels of acceptance. A few decades ago, England would be seen as inherently racist, but since then, a lot of ups and downs have led to a more harmonious and accepting country. It's often said that some countries in mainland Europe are 50, 40, 30 years etc. behind England in terms of racism and integration. Nationalism is not the same as racism. Many a nationalist will accept other races, so long as they too identify with the ideals of whichever country it is.
Prepare the transfer war chest.
Is it? It's just not much narrowing down the list of european countries you could be talking about so that it feels pretty redundant.
On point. But it is also the need to call a country racist. There's nothing else than headlines to gain from that either. Racism has many faces.
To be honest, this line of thinking is a problem in itself, IMO. Every society has racists since xenophobia is deeply rooted in human nature. England is a country in which >50% of the population voted for crippling their own economy mainly because of a rather abstract fear of immigration and outside influences. The idea of Great Britain returning to its former glory was omnipresent in the Brexit campaigns and said former glory was largely based on colonialism and a slave trade.
The same way Spanish people probably turn a blind eye towards casual everyday racism people in other countries do as well. I mean, during my partying years it was just commonly known that you have it more difficult to get into a night club if you have black hair or skin. There are more than enough empirical studies that you'll have it more difficult to get jobs or rent flats when you have a "foreign" name in Germany. Just because people don't make monkey noises in stadiums doesn't mean a society isn't racist. As said, every society is and the first step is to acknowledge as much.
Why?
You're talking about covert and systemic racism, which is never going to go away and each person has varying degrees of in accordance with their beliefs and sociological factors. I was more referring to overt racism, the likes of which are still commonly seen in Spain and Italy and what they are constantly condemned for not even processing, let alone getting to grips with.
If you take West Germany or Great Britain of 1970's and compare them both to now, you will see what I refer to - great leaps have been made in both to be where they are now, where overt racism is mostly condemned and immediately taken to task - the same conduct that is casually espoused in the aforementioned countries who are years/decades behind when it comes to the same subject matter.
Xenophobia and patriotism as well as the manipulation of the poor by the rich (fuelling ire against 'immigrants') is another discussion.
No nation has mastered acceptance, but some are way, way further down the line of attempting to do so than others.
I don’t know who said that Spain is a racist country in the fist instance but my point is that its a typically lazy response to the problem of racism to instead of acknowledging something to resolve the issue, invoke nationalistic tendencies which much like religious ones are a convenient blanket to hide under.
Just like here in India when there’s a problem / criticism the right wing loves playing the nationalistic card - “HoW cAN yOu sAY that aBoUt INDIA!??” to feed on sentiments of basic bitch masses
There is no justification for racism, regardless of whether there are those who repeat it in order to make a player angry. Seeing how Vinicius takes it, which is a natural feeling, I also think that Madrid has to see how it reacts to provocative situations. The last few games show that he is too irritable on the field, fighting with players and also responding and provoking the stands.
I remember that Alves also had problems, one time they threw a banana at him and he literally peeled it off and ate it. Awful? Yes, it was bad, but his reaction did not encourage them to continue. That's what I'm going for.
I remember that Alves also had problems, one time they threw a banana at him and he literally peeled it off and ate it. Awful? Yes, it was bad, but his reaction did not encourage them to continue. That's what I'm going for.
Sorry but I really don't see this. When over 50% (!) of GB's population voted for a clearly nationalistic and xenophobic agenda, it is almost cynical to claim that the country is decades ahead of Spain, even if it might be in the particular case of immediate response to racial abuse. I mean, there were studies that showed how racist crimes increased immediately after the Brexit vote and many immigrants explained how they didn't feel welcome anymore. Spain obviously receives every criticism that's thrown its way on this topic but one can do that without padding onself on the back for how advanced your own society is when it is clearly deeply flawed as well (and I'm not only speaking about Britain, as said I think that you have those tendencies in all countries). Don't you think it is a bit hypocritical to say "he should come to England, we have no racists" after that?
Wasn't this poster joking?