Viktor Gyökeres - Sporting Striker

The more I hear and find out about Gyokeres, the more I am questioning why we would sign him. I think I’m on team Rasmus. There are many similarities in their playing style but obvious Hojlund is younger and more raw.

I would make Amorim work with him, mould him and finesse the raw potential he has. I think he will be an excellent fit into the Amorim system.

We shouldn’t be spending 60/70m on a striker when we already have a 70m striker.
 
This isn't a young player breaking through, he was playing for Coventry City 18 months ago. I think it's a wildly optimistic take to talk about 5 years of world class performances in the premier league based on just over 1 season in Portugal.

It would be a great story, I do like a late bloomer.
Not disputing that and the 'if he can' should also give away the doubts I also harbour. My point was clearly aimed at his age being a deciding factor, it's quality and his individual drive that matters more than age because if a good player is signed at 27 and produces five 30 goal seasons he wouldn't be a bad buy in my book. Whether he can do it is another question altogether, one that very few people can confidently answer.
 
The more I hear and find out about Gyokeres, the more I am questioning why we would sign him. I think I’m on team Rasmus. There are many similarities in their playing style but obvious Hojlund is younger and more raw.

I would make Amorim work with him, mould him and finesse the raw potential he has. I think he will be an excellent fit into the Amorim system.

We shouldn’t be spending 60/70m on a striker when we already have a 70m striker.

I also quite like Hojlund but a team needs more than one good striker..... And there are still some question marks even around Hojlund.

The problem is the Zirkzee signing. That money and squad space should have been used for somebody like Gyokeres.
 
It depends what you mean by "succeed in the premier league". I'm talking about him being Manchester United's number 9, not being the next Darren Bent.

He was a Brighton player from 2018 until 2021 and he played 4 cup games, not a single minute in the prem. He was aged 20 to 23 during this time, a young player for sure but not a baby. He got loans to lower league sides and then a perm transfer to a lower league side. Then he got a transfer to the Portuguese league where he has been tearing it up since last season and now people are talking about him giving Manchester United multiple years of "world class performances", it's just a bit much.
You’re evaluating him and his current level now by stating what his career trajectory has been like. Development is not linear. Drogba was playing in the French second division two years before he joined Chelsea.
 
You’re evaluating him and his current level now by stating what his career trajectory has been like. Development is not linear. Drogba was playing in the French second division two years before he joined Chelsea.
I love a "late bloomer" story and Drogba is a big reason why.

Evaluating a player on their entire career is not a bad thing to do in my option. He made his debut 9 years ago, not 18 months ago. I'm not saying being a slow starter should disqualify him form a big move but it would be insane not to look at why he was farting about in the lower leagues for years.

If this bloke goes onto a top premier league side (or Manchester United) then it will be a fantastic story and outside of preferring Chelsea does well, I hope he does it.
 
You’re evaluating him and his current level now by stating what his career trajectory has been like. Development is not linear. Drogba was playing in the French second division two years before he joined Chelsea.
Or Raphinha, not too long ago he was playing for Leeds, now one of the best in form players around.
 
This isn't a young player breaking through, he was playing for Coventry City 18 months ago. I think it's a wildly optimistic take to talk about 5 years of world class performances in the premier league based on just over 1 season in Portugal.

It would be a great story, I do like a late bloomer.
Hrm.. did you have the same attitude towards Drogba?
 
Hrm.. did you have the same attitude towards Drogba?

But if you're using a pattern to judge a player do you use what happened 95% of the time or the exceptions?

Drogba was an exception. We'd be hoping Gyokeres is as well.
 
After we spent 100m already for strikers, we now need to spend another 60m to get another striker?
 
After we spent 100m already for strikers, we now need to spend another 60m to get another striker?

We dont, fans just want the next best shiny thing.. it was a couple seasons ago.

Fans watch highlights and get excited thinking he will come score goals here without actually realising the issue.

Our problem is we dont play to the striker or for the striker. Our players are all selfish and play for themselves, from poor passing, poor decision, not making unselfish runs etc..
 
That it would be wildly optimistic that he'd give us 5 years of world class performances? Yes.

Drogba hadn't spent years at a premier league side (like Gyokeres) and failed to break through though so it's not really the same.
I don’t know whether the journey is as important as the now with these late bloomers; they are anomalous from the outset, so normal is not applicable with them. Ignoring his path, what do you see before you, objectively? That is surely the driver, unless you think that the new form is just a purple streak.
But if you're using a pattern to judge a player do you use what happened 95% of the time or the exceptions?

Drogba was an exception. We'd be hoping Gyokeres is as well.
Well, I’d compare and contrast late bloomers with other late bloomers myself. Them being not of the required standard before rising to prominence goes without saying, but what they become? Well that’s where the discussion is. Wright, Drogba, Vardy, Immobile, Toni. Klose, Di Natale, Illic, amongst quite a few others; all late bloomers. It happens.

The only question is whether he’s a bona fide one or not, not his journey to being spoken about in the manner he is now.
 
I don’t know whether the journey is as important as the now with these late bloomers; they are anomalous from the outset, so normal is not applicable with them. Ignoring his path, what do you see before you, objectively? That is surely the driver, unless you think that the new form is just a purple streak.

The journey isn't as important as the now but it's not irrelevant.

We don't know if this bloke is a late bloomer like Drogba or if he's just another Mido or Michu.
 
I love a "late bloomer" story and Drogba is a big reason why.

Evaluating a player on their entire career is not a bad thing to do in my option. He made his debut 9 years ago, not 18 months ago. I'm not saying being a slow starter should disqualify him form a big move but it would be insane not to look at why he was farting about in the lower leagues for years.

If this bloke goes onto a top premier league side (or Manchester United) then it will be a fantastic story and outside of preferring Chelsea does well, I hope he does it.
Just think you can't really compare the guy against the normal development trajectory as he's obviously a bit of an outlier.

That's why I asked what perceived weaknesses you think he has, I fully believe he is more than equipped to make a big impact in a league like the PL.

Fully anticipate him to go to either Bayern/Liverpool/Chelsea/United in the summer.
 
I also quite like Hojlund but a team needs more than one good striker..... And there are still some question marks even around Hojlund.

The problem is the Zirkzee signing. That money and squad space should have been used for somebody like Gyokeres.
Is this true these days? Arsenal don't have one, Liverpool have Nunez, City have Harland and that's it, and there's a few other top sides where you wouldn't say they have two good strikers. having 4 great wide forwards is more essential these days.
 
After we spent 100m already for strikers, we now need to spend another 60m to get another striker?
We might have to spend more, out of necessity, unless Højlund steps up over the coming weeks and months and assuages lingering concerns (for a while at least). Money spent thus far on somewhat young talents simply hasn't translated into consistent production and performance on the pitch. Between 1995 and 1999, Milan signed George Weah, Christophe Dugarry, Pippo Maniero, Andreas Andersson, Maurizio Ganz, Patrick Kluivert, Oliver Bierhoff, José Mari and Andriy Shevchenko. They had to chop and change until they arrived at a really good solution, to overcome a period where they scored just 80 goals in 76 league outings with a goal difference of -8 and finished 10th and 11th in Serie A (obviously a massive disgrace for a club of their stature).

It's a position of extreme importance, doubly so under a coach like Amorim who, in many ways, seems to construct his team to cater to the center forward. If you cater your team to your center forward(s), and they don't deliver (Højlund and Zirzkee are by no means guaranteed to succeed under new management), you are likely to be in big trouble. Even Sporting CP had to allocate a sizeable portion of their budget to center forwards under Amorim and Viana: Viktor Gyökeres (signed last summer) is the most expensive signing in club history, Conrad Harder (signed this summer) is the 3rd most expensive signing in club history, Paulinho (signed in Amorim's first summer window and now at Toluca) was the 4th most expensive signing in club history.
 
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Think it's worth seeing how Hojlund does in Amorim's setup before we go get another high profile striker personally.
 
After we spent 100m already for strikers, we now need to spend another 60m to get another striker?

We need another striker, but it doesn't have to be a 60 million plus striker. Maybe find a find a veteran that is available on a free in the summer.
 
We need another striker, but it doesn't have to be a 60 million plus striker. Maybe find a find a veteran that is available on a free in the summer.
We made terrible experiences in the past 8 years with that approach
 
We made terrible experiences in the past 8 years with that approach
I'd take 2020 Cavani or 2016 Ibra again but yeah, basically everyone else was shite (or in Ronaldo's case, not worth the aggro).
 
Ronaldo?

You've also got Calvert-Lewin, Chris Wood, Callum Wilson, Dybala, and even the legend that is Danny Ings available on a free.
All those names sound extremely disappointing. Dybala isn't even a 9.

I think we'll definitely go for Gyokeres, hopefully Amorim can coach Hojlund into a reliable striker but I have zero faith on Zirkzee.
 
Is this true these days? Arsenal don't have one, Liverpool have Nunez, City have Harland and that's it, and there's a few other top sides where you wouldn't say they have two good strikers. having 4 great wide forwards is more essential these days.

I agree that wide forwards have picked up a lot of the goal scoring responsibility. I do think a top side should have 2 though. Back in the day you needed 3 or 4, now I think 2 is idea.

City - This is probably the weird one. They had two last year and sold one but they are also a team that seems equally as good with a false 9.
Liverpool - They have 2 (Nunez and Jota)
Arsenal - Lacking another real goal scorer is arguably why they haven't won a title. And even they have Havertz and Jesus.
 
That's a complete unknown. It's all a matter of opinion but I disagree that any of the other top 4 contenders would rely on Hojlund as their main goal threat. We've created chances all season and not put them away.

Top sides have at least one 20-25 goal a season forward. It's the easiest way to improve a side. Absent of Hojlund staying fit and bagging 15 - 20 goals between now and the end of the season and looking a consistent threat, I'd personally be surprised if a forward wasn't a priority.

I don't think it's such an unknown, at all.

Ten Hag's failed approach, and the suboptimal roles given to our attacking players within this system, that has also starved them of service amongst other things, has been analysed countless times at this point.

Our forwards and attacking players have also shown they can be profilic or at least chime in with a respectable number of goal contributions, either at United under Ole, when the attacking setup was much better, or in their previous teams before joining us.

I'm not trying to convince you that we would be scoring for fun and amass 120 goals scored over the course of a whole season, like we did under Ole in 20/21, but our attacking department is way, way better than to just end up with a minus goal difference and finish in 8th place.

Considering that Hojlund scored 16 goals in all competitions last season, at the ages of 20/21, in his first year in England, suffering from injuries, whilst playing for one of the worst teams in the whole league with 0 service provided to him, I really don't think it's an outrageous take that he can already easily score at least 25 in all comps, and around 15 in the Premier League, in a better team and better tactical setup.

Bruno and Rashford can get you over 30 goal contributions each too, over the course of a whole season. There's plenty of evidence supporting this.

The likes of Zirkzee, Amad, Mount, and Garnacho should be able to rack up around 10-15 G/A without issues as well. Obviously they'll take away game time from each other so they can't all reach great numbers. Antony and Eriksen can probably get 5 to 10. The rest of the midfield and the defense around 3-5. Maybe Wheatley and/or Obi-Martin will get some game time and score a few goals later in the season too.

Like I said previously, we will need attacking reinforcements, and a big player eventually, someone like Olise could've been on that right side this summer, but the base level and scoring potential of our current players are way better than what they showed under ETH and even Rangnick before that.

Amorim should have no problems with trying to extract more out of them, whilst also adding new players as time goes on...but I don't think Gyökeres is the answer. In fact, I think he would be an abysmal choice to go with.

-Only proven against relatively weak opposition
-Scores a big percentage of his goals from transitions: we already have transition monsters in our team in Hojlund, Rashford and Bruno.
-Gyökeres is a very similar profile to Hojlund anyways, who already cost a lot just 1 season ago, with no guarantees that the Swede has a higher ceiling or even base level than the Dane.
 
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I don't think it's such an unknown, at all.

Ten Hag's failed approach, and the suboptimal roles given to our attacking players within this system, that has also starved them of service amongst other things, has been analysed countless times at this point.

Our forwards and attacking players have also shown they can be profilic or at least chime in with a respectable number of goal contributions, either at United under Ole, when the attacking setup was much better, or in their previous teams before joining us.

I'm not trying to convince you that we would be scoring for fun and amass 120 goals scored over the course of a whole season, like we did under Ole in 20/21, but our attacking department is way, way better than to just end up with a minus goal difference and come 8th place.

Considering that Hojlund scored 16 goals in all competitions last season, at the ages of 20/21, in his first year in England, whilst playing for one of the worst teams in the whole league with 0 service provided to him, I really don't think it's an outrageous take that he can already easily score at least 25 in all comps, and around 15 in the Premier League, in a better team and better tactical setup.

Bruno and Rashford can get you over 30 goal contributions each too, over the course of a whole season. There's plenty of evidence supporting this.

The likes of Zirkzee, Amad, Mount, and Garnacho should be able to rack up around 10-15 G/A without issues as well. Antony and Eriksen can probably get 5 to 10. The rest of the midfield and the defense around 3-5. Maybe Wheatley and Obi-Martin will get some game time and score a few goals later in the season too.

Like I said previously, we will need attacking reinforcements, and a big player eventually, someone like Olise could've been on that right side this summer, but the base level and scoring potential of our current players are way better than what they showed under ETH and even Rangnick before that.

Amorim should have no problems with trying to extract more out of them, whilst also adding new players as time goes on...but I don't think Gyökeres is the answer. In fact, I think he would be an abysmal choice to go with.

-Only proven against relatively weak opposition
-Scores a big percentage of his goals from transitions: we already have transition monsters in our team in Hojlund, Rashford and Bruno.
-Gyökeres is a very similar profile to Hojlund anyways, who already cost a lot just 1 season ago, with no guarantees that the Swede has a higher ceiling or even base level than the Dane.
Yea seems optimistic for a 17 year old left back.
 
I think Amorin will whisper in Viktors ear: "- Viktor, don´t follow me to Utd because when i will peak with that team you will already be too old"