Victor Osimhen

[Bowlcut11]

Must buy. Purely because we could make up a chant to the tune of 50 Cents' Many Men (Wish Death)

Sanchez's piano, eat your heart out!

 

[Cassidy]

You're not factoring in the difference in wages. Over the course of an average contract the overall difference will be vast

Getting Hojlund instead of Kane worked out well didn’t it?

You have to factor in quality

 

[FortunaUtd]

He's a mercenary looking for a massive payday. He turned down four offers from Chelsea on transfer deadline day because they wouldn't pay him enough!

So one keeps reading. Yet he is at Galatasaray on loan from Napoli. Are we to assume those are clubs that pay in the range of wages we can routinely offer?

 

[Trex]

He's a mercenary looking for a massive payday. He turned down four offers from Chelsea on transfer deadline day because they wouldn't pay him enough!

So he's a mercenary for asking Chelsea to atleast match his current wage right. You do realize football is his source of income right.

 

[MaMa given red]

So one keeps reading. Yet he is at Galatasaray on loan from Napoli. Are we to assume those are clubs that pay in the range of wages we can routinely offer?

You literally just said "I am convinced that players who are not at the end of their career still will consider a move to a famous club in a relevant league over a move to Saudi league"

Last summer he had the chance to play in the Saudi league for the money or play in the Premier League for Chelsea. He chose the Saudi option.

So he's a mercenary for asking Chelsea to atleast match his current wage right. You do realize football is his source of income right.

I am aware that the football player Victor Osimhen has football as his source of income right.

The offers Chelsea made him were all structured in a way that he'd get paid very well if Chelsea met certain targets, however he turned this down then chose to waste a year of his career in the Turkish league.

Is this really the sort of player you want us to sign?

I feel like some people have learnt nothing over the last ten years or so!

This guy has got more red flags than a parade in North Korea!

 

[FortunaUtd]

You literally just said "I am convinced that players who are not at the end of their career still will consider a move to a famous club in a relevant league over a move to Saudi league"

Last summer he had the chance to play in the Saudi league for the money or play in the Premier League for Chelsea. He chose the Saudi option.



I am aware that the football player Victor Osimhen has football as his source of income right.

The offers Chelsea made him were all structured in a way that he'd get paid very well if Chelsea met certain targets, however he turned this down then chose to waste a year of his career in the Turkish league.

Is this really the sort of player you want us to sign?

I feel like some people have learnt nothing over the last ten years or so!

This guy has got more red flags than a parade in North Korea!

First of all, I don't mind a player turning down Chelsea for whatever reason.
Then, since you seem to be informed, can you give us an idea of what wages Chelsea might have offered him last summer?

 

[The White Pele]

If he’s interested, has a reasonable release clause and doesn’t break the mould of our wage structure then I would love us to sign him and get it done early. There’s going to be plenty of top clubs fishing around the likes of Isak, Gyokeres, Sesko etc and it feels inevitable one of them will turn to Osimhen at some point over the summer so if the numbers make sense let’s beat them to it.

 

[aeh1991]

Last summer Osimhen agreed a deal of 600k a week to go to Saudi. Do you think we should match that?

He obviously won't ask for the same salary.

 

[MaMa given red]

First of all, I don't mind a player turning down Chelsea for whatever reason.
Then, since you seem to be informed, can you give us an idea of what wages Chelsea might have offered him last summer?

Normally I'd agree with you actually as Chelsea are an absolute basket case of a club, but if it's a choice between Chelsea or a year in Turkey, then it tells you a lot about the players motivations.

The deal's he was offered meant he'd have to take a reduction in his basic wage, but the contracts were incentivised with bonuses if Chelsea met certain criteria such as qualifying for the Champions League etc.

He wasn't willing to buy in to it though, which says a lot about his character.

He obviously won't ask for the same salary.

How do you know this?

The point is the main factor in his next move will be money. In the summer he will join whichever club offers to pay him the most. He proved this last summer and it backfired and he's spent one of the prime years of his career in a second rate league.

We need to avoid players like this like the plague!

Thankfully I doubt he's seriously even on our radar now because it's been made clear that money is tight and we are building a long term project.

 

[Vault Dweller]

If Orny has reported he's Saud bound, that's unfortunate. We need someone like him desperately this summer.

 

[FortunaUtd]

Normally I'd agree with you actually as Chelsea are an absolute basket case of a club, but if it's a choice between Chelsea or a year in Turkey, then it tells you a lot about the players motivations.

The deal's he was offered meant he'd have to take a reduction in his basic wage, but the contracts were incentivised with bonuses if Chelsea met certain criteria such as qualifying for the Champions League etc.

He wasn't willing to buy in to it though, which says a lot about his character.

I think it's obvious that if you want to sign the capocanniere from a scudetto winning team to the Premier League, offering him a "reduction in his basic wage" will seem quite off-putting to him.

The point is, yes, it's a balancing act if he wants massive wages and has the option and basic willingness to go to Saudi for wages no sane club can match. It might not be doable within a justifiable framework.
But what exactly is justifiable for us? We are crying out for a top striker, we should at least test him with wages that are attractive.

We should be able to afford a couple of superstar wages, the notion of setting a voluntary salary cap that exludes top wages because you want no "mercenaries" will mean we won't have top players.
Kane is getting paid 400k £ at Bayern too, 31 years old. We are not poorer than Bayern and we want to have top players too. Building a "title-winning team" over years with youngish players on low wages is a fool's errand.

 

[Cassidy]

Normally I'd agree with you actually as Chelsea are an absolute basket case of a club, but if it's a choice between Chelsea or a year in Turkey, then it tells you a lot about the players motivations.

The deal's he was offered meant he'd have to take a reduction in his basic wage, but the contracts were incentivised with bonuses if Chelsea met certain criteria such as qualifying for the Champions League etc.

He wasn't willing to buy in to it though, which says a lot about his character.


How do you know this?

The point is the main factor in his next move will be money. In the summer he will join whichever club offers to pay him the most. He proved this last summer and it backfired and he's spent one of the prime years of his career in a second rate league.

We need to avoid players like this like the plague!

Thankfully I doubt he's seriously even on our radar now because it's been made clear that money is tight and we are building a long term project.

Not just a reduction in basic wages but 50% reduction. Who in their right mind would agree to that especially when the bonuses were based on team success of a team which just finished 2 seasons outside of UCL places and just hired a manager from the championship?

An offer like that is signalling the club does not truely value you. Which may be fair from Chelsea point of view since they had a good opinion of Jacksons development (rightly or wrongly)

 

[MaMa given red]

I think it's obvious that if you want to sign the capocanniere from a scudetto winning team to the Premier League, offering him a "reduction in his basic wage" will seem quite off-putting to him.

The point is, yes, it's a balancing act if he wants massive wages and has the option and basic willingness to go to Saudi for wages no sane club can match. It might not be doable within a justifiable framework.
But what exactly is justifiable for us? We are crying out for a top striker, we should at least test him with wages that are attractive.

We should be able to afford a couple of superstar wages, the notion of setting a voluntary salary cap that exludes top wages because you want no "mercenaries" will mean we won't have top players.
Kane is getting paid 400k £ at Bayern too, 31 years old. We are not poorer than Bayern and we want to have top players too. Building a "title-winning team" over years with youngish players on low wages is a fool's errand.

True. That also means he's not right for us though.

The fact that he's chosen to play in the Turkish league over this option though tells me that this isn't a player that cares much about his career and prioritises money over legacy.

Bayern are in a very different position to us though. They are about to win ten out of eleven league titles and are virtually always guaranteed Champions League football. They were adding Kane to an already successful team, whereas we have lots of work to do to build a squad.

Building a "title-winning team" over years with youngish players on low wages isn't a fool's errand. It's exactly how the champions elect Liverpool have done it. They signed youngish hungry players that were already good and had room for improvement. It was only after the players had proven themselves and been successful at the club that they were rewarded with bigger contracts.

Why should we hand Osimhen a massive contract for us before he's even kicked a ball here?

That was the mistake we made with Sanchez, and to some extent Casemiro.

 

[ron86]

True. That also means he's not right for us though.

The fact that he's chosen to play in the Turkish league over this option though tells me that this isn't a player that cares much about his career and prioritises money over legacy.

Bayern are in a very different position to us though. They are about to win ten out of eleven league titles and are virtually always guaranteed Champions League football. They were adding Kane to an already successful team, whereas we have lots of work to do to build a squad.

Building a "title-winning team" over years with youngish players on low wages isn't a fool's errand. It's exactly how the champions elect Liverpool have done it. They signed youngish hungry players that were already good and had room for improvement. It was only after the players had proven themselves and been successful at the club that they were rewarded with bigger contracts.

Why should we hand Osimhen a massive contract for us before he's even kicked a ball here?

That was the mistake we made with Sanchez, and to some extent Casemiro.

Liverpools success was built on breaking two transfer world records for virgil and Allison, and having a productive forward line

 

[sullydnl]

I still think it was absolutely correct not to sign Kane.

We'd obviously have fared better over the last couple of seasons. But we'd still be staring at a multi-year rebuild ahead, with an ageing striker on massive wages with no resale value who would need to be replaced as part of that rebuild.

Rebuidling a side isn't rocket science, and teams like Liverpool and Arsenal have demonstrated how it's done. And it isn't by splurging massive money on 30 year olds. Trying to take those sort of short-cuts for the sake of short term gain is in a large part why we're in this mess.

However, not signing Kane for €95m doesn't make signing someone like Hojlund for €70m a good idea. In the same summer that we bought Hojlund players like Gyokeres, Nick Jackson, Joao Pedro, Ekitike, Cunha, Retegui, Sesko, Marmoush and Delap all moved clubs, and crucially in almost all those cases for a tiny fraction of Hojlund's price. Nearly all players most here would probably now swap for Hojlund.

You have to buy smart as well as young. If you don't you're still going nowhere just as surely as if you keep making braindead Casemiro-style buys of 30 year olds on massive money.

But Osimhen is still just 26, not 30 like Kane was. So it's not a like for like comparison. The questions with Osimhen are whether we have concerns about his fitness and whether we're willing to make the sort of outlay he'd cost on any striker this summer.

 

[FortunaUtd]

True. That also means he's not right for us though.

The fact that he's chosen to play in the Turkish league over this option though tells me that this isn't a player that cares much about his career and prioritises money over legacy.

Bayern are in a very different position to us though. They are about to win ten out of eleven league titles and are virtually always guaranteed Champions League football. They were adding Kane to an already successful team, whereas we have lots of work to do to build a squad.

Building a "title-winning team" over years with youngish players on low wages isn't a fool's errand. It's exactly how the champions elect Liverpool have done it. They signed youngish hungry players that were already good and had room for improvement. It was only after the players had proven themselves and been successful at the club that they were rewarded with bigger contracts.

Why should we hand Osimhen a massive contract for us before he's even kicked a ball here?

That was the mistake we made with Sanchez, and to some extent Casemiro.

Liverpool didn't become a title-winning team until they signed Van Dijk and Alisson, both established top players in their prime, for big money. And adding Fabinho and Wijnaldum, having Salah and Mané. All of these players were in their mid to late twenties when they joined.

It has to be a mix, we won't win anything with only Dorgu, Amad, Yoro. It's Bruno who has keeping this team together this season, De Ligt, Ugarte and Mazraoui were great signings too. Top players in their prime. Now we need the same mix in attack.

 

[MaMa given red]

Liverpool didn't become a title-winning team until they signed Van Dijk and Alisson, both established top players in their prime, for big money. And adding Fabinho and Wijnaldum, having Salah and Mané. All of these players were in their mid to late twenties when they joined.

It has to be a mix, we won't win anything with only Dorgu, Amad, Yoro. It's Bruno who has keeping this team together this season, De Ligt, Ugarte and Mazraoui were great signings too. Top players in their prime. Now we need the same mix in attack.

Exactly.

None of those players you've mentioned were on massive wages when they signed them. They all arrived on modest wages and were rewarded with better contracts later on.

Those six players you've mentioned came from Southampton, Roma, Monaco and a relegated Newcastle.

De Ligt, Ugarte and Mazraoui aren't top players in their prime! The only reason they are here is beacuse Bayern and PSG wanted to get rid of them!

We need good attacking players that have the potential to go up a level or too.

Players like Delap from Ipswich and Semenyo from Bournemouth are the sort of players we should be targeting this summer.

 

[FortunaUtd]

Exactly.

None of those players you've mentioned were on massive wages when they signed them. They all arrived on modest wages and were rewarded with better contracts later on.

Those six players you've mentioned came from Southampton, Roma, Monaco and a relegated Newcastle.

De Ligt, Ugarte and Mazraoui aren't top players in their prime! The only reason they are here is beacuse Bayern and PSG wanted to get rid of them!

We need good attacking players that have the potential to go up a level or too.

Players like Delap from Ipswich and Semenyo from Bournemouth are the sort of players we should be targeting this summer.

They clearly are. The second sentence doesn't negate this, it only explains why we got them despite being in a worse sporting situation than their previous clubs.
Adding Delap to this team will not lift us anywhere, at least that's what I am afraid of. We need some proper oomph up top.

 

[Cassidy]

Exactly.

None of those players you've mentioned were on massive wages when they signed them. They all arrived on modest wages and were rewarded with better contracts later on.

Those six players you've mentioned came from Southampton, Roma, Monaco and a relegated Newcastle.

De Ligt, Ugarte and Mazraoui aren't top players in their prime! The only reason they are here is beacuse Bayern and PSG wanted to get rid of them!

We need good attacking players that have the potential to go up a level or too.

Players like Delap from Ipswich and Semenyo from Bournemouth are the sort of players we should be targeting this summer.

Roma and Monaco as clubs were levels above where Ipswich and Bournmouth are right now. Both stables in European football with Monaco regularly playing in the UCL and Roma often there too. I don’t think you can compare signing Alison (who was one of the highest rated keepers around at the time) and Fabinho (another highly rated player internationally at the time) with Delap (a single season in the PL) and Semenyo.

Yes we don’t need to be targeting Valverde or Mbappe but for instance signing Osimhen is quite similar to both Alison and Fabinho even though I would still prefer Gyokeres

 

[MaMa given red]

They clearly are. The second sentence doesn't negate this, it only explains why we got them despite being in a worse sporting situation than their previous clubs.
Adding Delap to this team will not lift us anywhere, at least that's what I am afraid of. We need some proper oomph up top.

They wouldn't start for any of the top clubs in this league, hence why none of them were interested in them in the summer.

It doesn't necessarily have to be Delap, but more that profile of player. Someone that's hungry
to succeed, not looking for a massive pay day.

Roma and Monaco as clubs were levels above where Ipswich and Bournmouth are right now. Both stables in European football with Monaco regularly playing in the UCL and Roma often there too. I don’t think you can compare signing Alison (who was one of the highest rated keepers around at the time) and Fabinho (another highly rated player internationally at the time) with Delap (a single season in the PL) and Semenyo.

Yes we don’t need to be targeting Valverde or Mbappe but for instance signing Osimhen is quite similar to both Alison and Fabinho even though I would still prefer Gyokeres

I'd never heard of Alison at the time Liverpool signed him. He was backup to Wojciech Szczęsny for one season and then had one full season with Roma when Szczęsny left.

Fabinho was a player that we were often linked with and I wanted us to sign.

I'm trying to give some example's of the sort of players we need to be going for.

We need good players, around the 22 to 25 age bracket that still have much more to prove, not players that are looking for a big financial contract.

 

[FortunaUtd]

They wouldn't start for any of the top clubs in this league, hence why none of them were interested in them in the summer.

It doesn't necessarily have to be Delap, but more that profile of player. Someone that's hungry
to succeed, not looking for a massive pay day.



I'd never heard of Alison at the time Liverpool signed him. He was backup to Wojciech Szczęsny for one season and then had one full season with Roma when Szczęsny left.

Fabinho was a player that we were often linked with and I wanted us to sign.

I'm trying to give some example's of the sort of players we need to be going for.

We need good players, around the 22 to 25 age bracket that still have much more to prove, not players that are looking for a big financial contract.

Alisson was raved about by everyone as being the best keeper in Serie A by a mile at the time. He was not some secret scouting stroke of genius. Which is also why he was the most expensive GK transfer of all time at the time of his signing (topped by Kepa to Chelsea a month later).
The equivalent would be buying a striker for 150m € now, not Delap from Ipswich.

 

[Cassidy]

They wouldn't start for any of the top clubs in this league, hence why none of them were interested in them in the summer.

It doesn't necessarily have to be Delap, but more that profile of player. Someone that's hungry
to succeed, not looking for a massive pay day.



I'd never heard of Alison at the time Liverpool signed him. He was backup to Wojciech Szczęsny for one season and then had one full season with Roma when Szczęsny left.

Fabinho was a player that we were often linked with and I wanted us to sign.

I'm trying to give some example's of the sort of players we need to be going for.

We need good players, around the 22 to 25 age bracket that still have much more to prove, not players that are looking for a big financial contract.

Just because you had never heard of him doesn’t mean he wasn’t on of the highest rated keepers that season. He had an amazing season which is why he was one of pools most expensive signings

I get you are giving examples but I am just disagreeing with your assessment, especially on Delap.

 

[didz]

Not just a reduction in basic wages but 50% reduction. Who in their right mind would agree to that especially when the bonuses were based on team success of a team which just finished 2 seasons outside of UCL places and just hired a manager from the championship?

An offer like that is signalling the club does not truely value you. Which may be fair from Chelsea point of view since they had a seedgood opinion of Jacksons development (rightly or wrongly)

I think Chelsea got to the table and realised they'd spent all their money on shit wingers. It happens to the best of us.

 

[IRN-BRUno]

I think potentially missing 8 or 9 games because of AFCON would be a bit of an issue. We already could be without Onana, Mazraoui and Amad for that month, it wouldn't be ideal to add another main player to that list.

 

[The Original]

True. That also means he's not right for us though.

The fact that he's chosen to play in the Turkish league over this option though tells me that this isn't a player that cares much about his career and prioritises money over legacy.

Bayern are in a very different position to us though. They are about to win ten out of eleven league titles and are virtually always guaranteed Champions League football. They were adding Kane to an already successful team, whereas we have lots of work to do to build a squad.

Building a "title-winning team" over years with youngish players on low wages isn't a fool's errand. It's exactly how the champions elect Liverpool have done it. They signed youngish hungry players that were already good and had room for improvement. It was only after the players had proven themselves and been successful at the club that they were rewarded with bigger contracts.

Why should we hand Osimhen a massive contract for us before he's even kicked a ball here?

That was the mistake we made with Sanchez, and to some extent Casemiro.

Where is the legacy in playing for a mid-table team with no chance of major honours? Are you saying that winning the League (albeit the Turkish league), winning the Europa League, and being the top scorer is less of a footballing legacy than paying for a mid-table team that might, at best, win the Conference League? What sense does that make?

It's funny because Osimhen already turned down a big-money move way back as a teen when he scored 10 goals in the U-17 World Cup and naturally had several top clubs looking at him. He chose instead to go to Wolfsburg, where he was guaranteed less pay and less of a spotlight because he thought it would be better for his development.

In his words:

"It's true that a big team like Arsenal wanted me and I feel honoured to be invited over. But personally I feel Wolfsburg is a ladder for me to reach my professional goals," Osimhen told BBC Sport.

"Yes Arsenal is a good team for young players but Wolfsburg is the best club for me.

"This the best place for me to learn and develop because my heart is here with Wolfsburg.

"The club's plan for my career is very encouraging and I believe with God on my side I can grow to become one of the best players in the world," he added.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/35569526

 

[Gandalf]

I'm just thinking about the posts you make about Hojlunds past record and can't help but read this and smile.

Well of course you smile if you are leaving out context. I think i am consistent in stating that Hojlund is not ready to lead the line for us and may never be but he is also a young striker with the potential to improve if you consider where he is relative to where other top strikers were at his age. No guarantee that he improves but the possibility exists even if it is looking more remote with the passing of time.

In commenting on Osimhen it is from the perspective that a lot of people are just stating as a fact that he would score 20+ goals a season for us and I am questioning their certainty when he has not been that player for most of his career and we as a team are not exactly chance creation machines. Osimhen is better than what we have but it is a leap to suggest he guarantees 20+ goals a season in all competitions when he only managed that once in 5 years for Napoli and did not do it during his lone season in Ligue 1. For context, Tammy Abraham also scored 20+ goals for Roma in his first season in Serie A so it is not exactly a guarantee of PL goal scoring success.