Rojo is probably our best defender (pre Lindelof). We're fecked if Lindelof isn't at least as good and Bailly doesn't start improving.
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I think the frustration with Van Gaal spilled over into his signings for a lot of us. Just like Moyes and Fellaini. The same is happening with this summer's signings. There are some who are slagging off the new players mainly because it's Mourinho managing United they dislike.
"He was rubbish under LVG in all positions" is an equally big overstatement though. He was largely poor in 2015/16 (mostly playing at LB), but certainly had his fair share of decent games in 2014/15, and probably wasn't helped by the fact that he was played wherever needed from game to game. Is he the future main man for us at CB? Probably not, but he can certainly do a job when called upon, and I wish we had him fit now while Lindelof beds in.
There's nothing to suggest he'll be sucessful just because we paid a big fee and scouted him (just look at defensive signings city have made). However, It's absurd to write players off based on pre-season.
Not gonna panic yet, its pre-season. I was hoping though, that come West Ham we'd have a confident, fresh Bailly-Lindelof pairing as our first choice but seems like we're gonna be back to bloody Smalling yet again.
No he was good at CB in 14/15. Even remember some people here calling him our new Vidic.
Another unimpressive performance from Lindelof. Absolutely no pressure on Barca's star forwards, let them do whatever they wanted.
Give him time to accommodate and in the meantime use more Mensah & Tuanzebe.
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Still struggling to understand why he hasn't partnered Bailly yet.
What do you expect him to do with little midfield cover? One of the front three always had a chance to run at our defence because Carrick was easily bypassed.
Intercept, tackle or block, depending on the situation. I agree Carrick was a complete disaster and Pogba not much better defensively. To which you can add Blind and Valencia having nightmare games. Smalling did at least get in one block that I noticed.
I don't think he put a foot wrong, but at the same time he's not as explosive and attacking every ball as Bailly. He's a different type of defender and and I thought we somewhat got an idea about that from his videos before signing him.
He wasn't as nervous as last game. I think with the proper CB partner and a proper DMF his performance will rise eventually. Again he's not the same explosive type as Bailly.
He wasn't as nervous as last game. I think with the proper CB partner and a proper DMF his performance will rise eventually. Again he's not the same explosive type as Bailly.
21 pages already.
He will likely be on the bench for the first league game with Bailly and Jones being our first choice CBs. Which in itself is a bloody shame as we needed to buy players we could be sure of as being undisputed first choice.
Continue to my previous point. I think he's like Carrick who is well known slow starter. What I saw with Carrick is that his style relies on other players getting sharp, so he can make the best of his reading. Lindelof maybe similar that he needs to get a better understanding of his teammates as well as they start to get sharp & consistently enough for his reading to become accurate.
Beside one or two unconvincing header, I think he improved this game as the team is getting sharper. Hardly put a foot wrong. People need to realize who we're facing. Even Valencia was stifled & ended up making series of mistake (offside trap, turn the wrong way, not clearing the ball), which is very unlike him. Blind lost his composure. Only Smalling who loves defending looks better.
Beside one or two unconvincing header, I think he improved this game as the team is getting sharper. Hardly put a foot wrong. People need to realize who we're facing. Even Valencia was stifled & ended up making series of mistake (offside trap, turn the wrong way, not clearing the ball), which is very unlike him. Blind lost his composure. Only Smalling who loves defending looks better.
Looks extremely flat footed to me so far. Hopefully he gets a lot sharper
LINDELOF AND SMALLING AS A PAIR
"I think we will understand the reason in a couple of days. [Eric] Bailly is suspended for the first two matches in Europe as you know, and in the next couple of days you will have the understanding of why I am playing [Victor] Lindelof and [Chris] Smalling."
"I think we will understand the reason in a couple of days. [Eric] Bailly is suspended for the first two matches in Europe as you know, and in the next couple of days you will have the understanding of why I am playing [Victor] Lindelof and [Chris] Smalling."
That sounds ominous!
Hmm next few days? Is someone leaving? Bit of an odd statement that
He may be talking about the Supercup game against Madrid. These two will probably start that match.
Jones getting sold?
Jones is probably injured he just can't be arsed to talk about it.
Thats how I took it to mean as well. Very strange comment.
With Bailly, Lindelof and Rojo and first 3 choices...Smalling and Jones were probably looking to leave but no offers were forthcoming. I think Jose was ok with one leaving. Everton are looking for a CB...maybe he is headed there
@TheSwedeFromSweden - Is anyone else suspicious that this guy is Victor Lindelof?
I am...some of his posts bear an eerie resemblance to NL Max and the Mad Winger i.e. Depay and Kagawa respectively
I am...some of his posts bear an eerie resemblance to NL Max and the Mad Winger i.e. Depay and Kagawa respectively
@TheSwedeFromSweden - Is anyone else suspicious that this guy is Victor Lindelof?
I am...some of your posts bear an eerie resemblance to NL Max and the Mad Winger i.e. Depay and Kagawa respectively
NL Max- Depay
MAd Winger - Kagawa?
Is that what you're saying?
We also had Rafael here, cannot remember his nickname though.
Really really needs to step it up badly the lad. Only pre season of course but nothing I've seen from him impresses me in the slightes. Not physically imposing at all, not good at heading a ball, and his great passing skills I have yet to see.
His debut was a sub appearance coming on for Ruud against Blackburn. Not sure about his full debut.
What I remember best about his first couple of months was the match against Liverpool (? Might have been someone else). An opposing attacker kicked the ball ahead and was headed clean through on goal. Vidic jumped into his path face on and bowled him over with an obstruction. It was the clearest foul you'll see but I took it as a good sign, a sign that he would do anything to stop someone getting past him!
I think it was Wolves wasn't it? I think Kenny Miller knocked it past him and Vida just shut the door on him lol
Could have happened more than once tbf but I do remember the Wolves incident because it was one of the most blatant and cynical fouls I have seen on a football pitch!
Not sure why people were ever assuming Lindelof would start straight away and also not sure why people are so quick to write off our own CBs
Most teams would kill for Bailly, Smalling, Jones and Rojo with Blind and Tuanzabe too. OK none of them are world class but Bailly could be in time and the others do a fine job the majority of the time
Just find it strange how some players, Herrera, Valencia, Martial, Rashford, Mhiki and Mata get away with 1 good performance in 3 and have obvious limitations and yet they are bulletproof.
Smalling, Jones, Lingard, Shaw and Fellaini seem to consistently be whipping boys whatever they do
Most teams would kill for Bailly, Smalling, Jones and Rojo with Blind and Tuanzabe too. OK none of them are world class but Bailly could be in time and the others do a fine job the majority of the time
Just find it strange how some players, Herrera, Valencia, Martial, Rashford, Mhiki and Mata get away with 1 good performance in 3 and have obvious limitations and yet they are bulletproof.
Smalling, Jones, Lingard, Shaw and Fellaini seem to consistently be whipping boys whatever they do
It's on August 8th, a good 12 days away. But unless someone is getting sold, this makes the most sense.
Yes
and how do we know so?
Are you serious? Most of those perform far better than once in 3 games and yet get plenty of criticism.
Most teams would kill for any of our established players but that's to be expected when you are one of the top clubs in one of the top leagues. Doesn't really mean much in the context of Manchester United. That's the standard by which Lindelof will be judged too, but it's far too early yet.
Lindelof will come good, no need for us to jump the wagon and slag him off. Just wait for the season to start and let him settle first before drawing the sword on him.If there is one thing that Jose is best at then it is defending.We have to trust Jose on this one.
Yes, it's far too early to judge him, but he has to progress quickly because the PL is a different kettle of fish to the Portugal league and he'll get a very hard time by his PL opponents - we cannot afford the sort of mistakes he's been doing.
Imagine the threads for Vidic and Evra in the first few months.
Wsa just coming in this thread to say this. Give the guy some time man.
Do they? I mean lets look at there performances last season and the response from fans
Valencia - won PPotY award. Solid RB but for a converted winger his crossing is unbelievably bad. Actually limits our attacking play down the right with his constant turning backwards. Loved by the fans. Never a bad word said.
Martial - lets be honest, did virtually nothing last year, certainly not when it mattered. Most fans still consider him one of our best players
Mata - never been a fan. Nice bloke, great technique but lacks the dynamism, pace and power we need. Another who is very safe. Absolutely loved by the fans - I will get criticised just for pointing out his flaws.
Mhiki - Flashes of brilliance, lots of mediocre games and some absolute dross. First season OK but needs to step it up, should be in his prime. Loved by the fans.
Herrera - usually solid but is that what we class as good enough now? Not saying I don't rate him but you have people comparing him to the best midfielders in the world. I don't care what stats get put infront of me about tackles, interceptions etc...he is generally effective but not world class. Darling of the fans, despite costing us two games with needless sendings off.
Rashford - local lad done good yes but we talk about him like he is Messi or even Rooney standard at 19. Sorry but they were both miles ahead.
Just remember what point I am making when you respond - not saying I don't rate the above but J am saying that the likes of Smalling, Jones, Rojo, Fellaini, Shaw etc....seem to get such a tough ride in comparison. I mean, people still go on about those two tackles Rojo made to justify dismisssing the consistently brilliant performances he put in last year!
RedCafe can fawn too much over some players and be too critical of others
Sounds like a mix of you not rating players and not reading similar criticism that gets posted about them. Plenty of people criticize Valencia's lack of end product ('Turn Back Tony') or say Martial is in the last chance saloon (despite having had a better season under LVG than Shaw ever has).
Even when Mata has a good game I'll often read in his player performance thread the kinds of things you wrote - doesn't matter what he adds to the team because he isn't fast, isn't strong, doesn't stick to the wing, beat his man and put in a cross. Ironically those same posters tend to then go elsewhere and complain Mourinho values physical attributes too much and fosters unimaginative attacking play.
Herrera had a very, very good season for us yet again there are fans like you (you're not alone in this) who insist he isn't good enough and we should be looking to upgrade him in the short future.
Obviously if you rate certain players much more than others or vice versa then you will feel RedCafe is playing favourites, but it could be just you. I haven't really read much criticism of Rojo, largely people seem to agree he was very good when he started for us last year. Fellaini is hated because of who he is, it will never change sadly.
On topic, I feel the same is starting to happen with Lindelof. People who are frustrated with the summer in general because we didn't sign whoever they wanted, or dislike Mourinho, are taking it out on him. He could turn out to be a terrible signing or a great one, but you get the feeling some aren't going to give themselves the chance to find out.
Even when Mata has a good game I'll often read in his player performance thread the kinds of things you wrote - doesn't matter what he adds to the team because he isn't fast, isn't strong, doesn't stick to the wing, beat his man and put in a cross. Ironically those same posters tend to then go elsewhere and complain Mourinho values physical attributes too much and fosters unimaginative attacking play.
Herrera had a very, very good season for us yet again there are fans like you (you're not alone in this) who insist he isn't good enough and we should be looking to upgrade him in the short future.
Obviously if you rate certain players much more than others or vice versa then you will feel RedCafe is playing favourites, but it could be just you. I haven't really read much criticism of Rojo, largely people seem to agree he was very good when he started for us last year. Fellaini is hated because of who he is, it will never change sadly.
On topic, I feel the same is starting to happen with Lindelof. People who are frustrated with the summer in general because we didn't sign whoever they wanted, or dislike Mourinho, are taking it out on him. He could turn out to be a terrible signing or a great one, but you get the feeling some aren't going to give themselves the chance to find out.
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