Varane to Saudi league?

justsomebloke said:
How on earth did we end up in a place where Jonny Evans is a regular and Raphael Varane is on his way out, if that is indeed the case? I know about the left-footed LB preference and all that, but surely there's a bigger picture here. Involving such things as Varane being a top level CB when he's healthy, and Jonny Evans most definitely not being that. Frankly, if where EtH is taking us requires playing Evans and benching Varane, then I'm not sure I have confidence in where he's taking us.

Also, why the feck is lots of people now talking about Varane as if he's been a failure? He hasn't - he's mostly been great, save for the injury problems.
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If you have a Dutch coach, the left footed LCB is always going to be a thing, I think. It's kind of the engrained philosophy of passing lanes and tackling technique requires it - Dutch fans feel free to call me out on me talking shit. I think we know Martinez is first choice LCB and Maguire has played his way into first choice RCB, so realistically, that is the spot Varane is playing for. I don't think that's particularly wrong - I don't like the idea of Maguire or Varane playing LCB, I'm not as dogmatic as Ten Hag and would put up with it until Martinez in back.

The injury problems have been a real issue for someone who's one of our top earners though, I think that's where maybe the "failure" vibe comes from.
 
Last January we got rid of Ronaldo and replaced with Weghorst.

This January Casemiro and Varane for Rabiot and Jerome Boateng
 
Herman Toothrot said:
It's a case of adding two and two and possibly getting four. Varane isn't currently getting games and Ratcliffe, rightly, questioned United's transfer policy of buying ageing players on huge wages. That doesn't necessarily mean that Varane won't be back when Martinez is fit to partner him, nor does it mean that a future transfer policy that wouldn't have signed Casemiro mean we'll sell what we already have. However, I don't see either the players or club turning down a silly offer.
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I expected at least a source or something but it just states this:

Both were pivotal in Erik ten Hag’s impressive first season at the club but have struggled this term and approach the January transfer window with a question mark over their futures.
Casemiro looked short of form and fitness at the start of the season, and is out until after Christmas with a hamstring injury. The Brazilian has been linked with a move to Saudi Arabia in January. Even if he stays, his future is likely to be up for discussion in the summer.
Varane, meanwhile, has fallen out of favour with Ten Hag such that their relationship has practically broken down. A frank exchange of views is believed to have taken place after Varane was dropped for the Manchester derby last month, and the Frenchman has only made three substitute appearances since.
The 30-year-old is said to be unhappy that Jonny Evans has been chosen ahead of him, and Victor Lindelof was then selected to play alongside Harry Maguire against Luton two weeks ago when Evans was injured.

Things we all know already.

If it will be the case I hope we'll get good enough replacements. No rush to get rid of them in the winter.
 
Devil81 said:
To be honest if the Saudi sides came in we'd be crazy not to cash in as both these players are on a decline. Madrid knew full well about Varane's injury issues and they also knew full well the lack of mobility of Casemiro would get even worse the older he got.

We've got to be better in the market, big clubs only sell when they know a player is either declining or trouble.
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Which a lot said at the time but were met with cries of “shut up it’s fecking Casemiro!”

You’d think we’d have learned after Matic. Hefty fee for one good season, then you’re managing them out.
 
justsomebloke said:
How on earth did we end up in a place where Jonny Evans is a regular and Raphael Varane is on his way out, if that is indeed the case? I know about the left-footed LB preference and all that, but surely there's a bigger picture here. Involving such things as Varane being a top level CB when he's healthy, and Jonny Evans most definitely not being that. Frankly, if where EtH is taking us requires playing Evans and benching Varane, then I'm not sure I have confidence in where he's taking us.

Also, why the feck is lots of people now talking about Varane as if he's been a failure? He hasn't - he's mostly been great, save for the injury problems.
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Just shows how fickle people are on here.

People are actually pushing the agenda that Maguire and Evans are better for us than Varane. This is the same manager than will play Rashford into form no matter what but Varane can’t get the same privileges despite not being as bad as Rashford this season.

The second Maguire has bad games back to back or Evans gets exposed people will be back to the opinions they had of both back in September.

The big games are coming up now, it’s easy for EtH and the fans to back his stupidity in games against Luton and shite like that. Let’s see how many people agree with EtH when we face Liverpool and Bayern.
 
Lash said:
If you have a Dutch coach, the left footed LCB is always going to be a thing, I think. It's kind of the engrained philosophy of passing lanes and tackling technique requires it - Dutch fans feel free to call me out on me talking shit. I think we know Martinez is first choice LCB and Maguire has played his way into first choice RCB, so realistically, that is the spot Varane is playing for. I don't think that's particularly wrong - I don't like the idea of Maguire or Varane playing LCB, I'm not as dogmatic as Ten Hag and would put up with it until Martinez in back.

The injury problems have been a real issue for someone who's one of our top earners though, I think that's where maybe the "failure" vibe comes from.
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There's also Lindelof to play LCB. Which in effect means we're shipping out Varane in order to be able to play Maguire regularly. No matter how one turns and twists this one, it comes down to this: Shipping out one of our two top-class CBs to make room for someone who is clearly a lesser player. Whether that's Maguire or Evans.

Sure Varane has had injury trouble, but that's an issue of its own. What that means - as with Shaw - is that we need high-quality coverage. But if Maguire's suddenly the solution, we apparently already have that.

Again, I just don't buy into this. If that's the right decision for this team, then we're not building the right kind of team. A clear black mark against ten Hag, in my view.
 
I dont think he is going to be sold if we're not eyeing a replacement and its hard to get a quality one in winter.
 
It's a complete no brainer to sell Varane and casemiro, go for someone about 7-10 years younger than each and a third of the wages, and who can stay fit longer but has high potential. We aren't achieving anything this season, start building for the future years, properly. And get the wages under control.
 
justsomebloke said:
If we played this smart, it would be Maguire heading out the door, not Varane.
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So Varane can carry on being injured and the team be left without our one soul decent CB option?

Great idea that :wenger:
 
justsomebloke said:
There's also Lindelof to play LCB. Which in effect means we're shipping out Varane in order to be able to play Maguire regularly. No matter how one turns and twists this one, it comes down to this: Shipping out one of our two top-class CBs to make room for someone who is clearly a lesser player. Whether that's Maguire or Evans.

Sure Varane has had injury trouble, but that's an issue of its own. What that means - as with Shaw - is that we need high-quality coverage. But if Maguire's suddenly the solution, we apparently already have that.

Again, I just don't buy into this. If that's the right decision for this team, then we're not building the right kind of team. A clear black mark against ten Hag, in my view.
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I would be shifting all 3 (Varane, Maguire and Evans), but you have to do that gradually. If there's an option to get rid of Varane for a good fee January and add a prospect, I think that's a good idea. We can revisit Maguire and Evans in the summer. Maguire for his faults is perma-available and is much better to hang your hat on for this season.
 
As much as I like both players, getting a decent fee for them from Saudi would make sense. Need promising young replacements though, not bargain basement crap.
 
Even though they've both had some really good games for us, it's crazy that we went for them in the first place.
But, never change United...
 
El Jefe said:
Just shows how fickle people are on here.

People are actually pushing the agenda that Maguire and Evans are better for us than Varane. This is the same manager than will play Rashford into form no matter what but Varane can’t get the same privileges despite not being as bad as Rashford this season.

The second Maguire has bad games back to back or Evans gets exposed people will be back to the opinions they had of both back in September.

The big games are coming up now, it’s easy for EtH and the fans to back his stupidity in games against Luton and shite like that. Let’s see how many people agree with EtH when we face Liverpool and Bayern.
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Well said. These are my thoughts exactly. I’d also like to add that people are in dreamland if they think we’ll offload them for huge fees and get an adequate replacement in January.
 
El Jefe said:
Just shows how fickle people are on here.

People are actually pushing the agenda that Maguire and Evans are better for us than Varane. This is the same manager than will play Rashford into form no matter what but Varane can’t get the same privileges despite not being as bad as Rashford this season.

The second Maguire has bad games back to back or Evans gets exposed people will be back to the opinions they had of both back in September.

The big games are coming up now, it’s easy for EtH and the fans to back his stupidity in games against Luton and shite like that. Let’s see how many people agree with EtH when we face Liverpool and Bayern.
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Good post, agree word for word. The next month will provide the club with a very clear statement on where we're at.
 
I think both Varane and Case arrived here thinking they were going to help kickstart a new dawn at United. Both showed their class more often than not until our decline after winning the League Cup. By that time, I think they realised they're on a sinking ship and there's no end goal worth committing too. I'm not saying both have downed tools, I just think they're more regularly playing within themselves, plus they're picking up niggles (and cards in Case's case) and would rather be somewhere else. They must look around the whole OT environment and wonder what kind of shit show they've walked into after all those years at RM.

On a similar note, I think Ronaldo felt the same but with far more ego, ie he saw himself as the saviour, but ultimately imploded when his conceit got the better of him.
 
I think too many fans looks at Varane by name and the fact he won so much at Real Madrid. I don't think he's been good enough since he joined us and was involved in a lot of the heavy defeats. He's surely better than Maguire, Evans and Lindelof but he cannot stay fit and on hefty wages.

I have no issue with him being sold but the reality is who does the club replace him with? We know they are terrible at recruitment and with a January sale we know it will be an aging stop gap type player who should not be playing for Manchester United.

Recruitment at the club has been shocking for a while. If Real Madrid are happy to sell a player they know he isn't good enough at the top level.
 
El Jefe said:
Just shows how fickle people are on here.

People are actually pushing the agenda that Maguire and Evans are better for us than Varane. This is the same manager than will play Rashford into form no matter what but Varane can’t get the same privileges despite not being as bad as Rashford this season.

The second Maguire has bad games back to back or Evans gets exposed people will be back to the opinions they had of both back in September.

The big games are coming up now, it’s easy for EtH and the fans to back his stupidity in games against Luton and shite like that. Let’s see how many people agree with EtH when we face Liverpool and Bayern.
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The Bayern game wont matter. We will be out after Wednesday.
 
I still feel he's our best CB by a distance when fit and find it odd how ETH can't get him in there. The injuries are an issue though no doubt. This left footed CB thing, less so for me.

If Saudi offer good money we need to take it of course. Summer would be better though, if possible.
 
Varane can go in Jan, any kind of money for him is a bonus. We have the template what we need when Martinez comes back. Varane's pace was a good partnership with Martinez aggression, I guess similar to what he had with Ramos. A younger version with similar traits to Varane is what we need. Varane is starting to look sluggish, I guess the constant injuries are catching up on him. Get his wages off the bill, get a fee for him from Saudi and bring the lad in from Nice,and that would be a great piece of mid season business.
 
Champ said:
So Varane can carry on being injured and the team be left without our one soul decent CB option?

Great idea that :wenger:
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Really? If you can sell Varane and replace him, why can't you sell Maguire and replace him? Varane + new RB good enough to play when Varane is injured seems a good deal better to me than Maguire + new RB.
 
Lash said:
I would be shifting all 3 (Varane, Maguire and Evans), but you have to do that gradually. If there's an option to get rid of Varane for a good fee January and add a prospect, I think that's a good idea. We can revisit Maguire and Evans in the summer. Maguire for his faults is perma-available and is much better to hang your hat on for this season.
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I frankly think that's bollocks. Varane is a legitimate top CB as long as he's healthy, Maguire simply isn't.
 
I really like and rate Varane but if we can get our money back and re-invest it in a younger option it's not the end of the world.
 
justsomebloke said:
Really? If you can sell Varane and replace him, why can't you sell Maguire and replace him? Varane + new RB good enough to play when Varane is injured seems a good deal better to me than Maguire + new RB.
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No it doesn't, because Varane can't ever play 2 games a week. Which means in an absolute best case scenario, you're replacing him every 3 days, which makes for no continuity at the back.

Ten Hag has hinted frustration at this many times, so I'm not surprised he's just dropped Varane all together now. He's likely thought "feck it, Maguire's not as good but he's able to put himself out more than Varane is, circumstantially I'll take this and allow for a connection to be built longer term".
 
Yagami said:
Christmas has potentially come early. Two overrated players who've used us as a retirement home out in one window. I'm not even that bothered about the fee as long as we get rid.
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Same, it would be nice to make quick turn arounds on our mistakes, you just worry about who's coming in to replace them.
 
justsomebloke said:
I frankly think that's bollocks. Varane is a legitimate top CB as long as he's healthy, Maguire simply isn't.
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This is the key part, I know he is miles better than Maguire, but what's the point in keeping Varane when you have to inevitably play Maguire anyway, because he breaks down.

Take the money now and move on to someone else we can develop into a top CB.
 
justsomebloke said:
How on earth did we end up in a place where Jonny Evans is a regular and Raphael Varane is on his way out, if that is indeed the case? I know about the left-footed LB preference and all that, but surely there's a bigger picture here. Involving such things as Varane being a top level CB when he's healthy, and Jonny Evans most definitely not being that. Frankly, if where EtH is taking us requires playing Evans and benching Varane, then I'm not sure I have confidence in where he's taking us.

Also, why the feck is lots of people now talking about Varane as if he's been a failure? He hasn't - he's mostly been great, save for the injury problems.
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Varane was very average in his first season, good in his second season (too many poor games and too many injuries to say he was great), and started this season well but was then poor and injured again before losing his spot in the starting line-up (and continued to be poor when given games when he should have been trying to win his spot back).

His second season stops him being a huge failure, but I'd hardly say he's been a success either.
 
bosnian_red said:
It's a complete no brainer to sell Varane and casemiro, go for someone about 7-10 years younger than each and a third of the wages, and who can stay fit longer but has high potential. We aren't achieving anything this season, start building for the future years, properly. And get the wages under control.
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This, 100%
 
stevoc said:
So why is Varane rumoured to be leaving?
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Some rumours saying he's fallen out with ETH, either caused by or resulting in Varane dropping down the pecking order (chicken or egg situation where we don't know which came first).

From memory, there were also some rumours that he told the club he had an offer from Saudi and wanted to leave before ETH dropped him.
 
MadDogg said:
Some rumours saying he's fallen out with ETH, either caused by or resulting in Varane dropping down the pecking order (chicken or egg situation where we don't know which came first).

From memory, there were also some rumours that he told the club he had an offer from Saudi and wanted to leave before ETH dropped him.
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Right so seems like a really well planned out and managed situation where our best and most experienced defender is being shunted out the door mid season. While an inferior defender who apparently doesn't suit the managers style of play and a player he's tried to force out for the best part of a year and a half is now the guy he's relying on.

What a shitshow this season is descending into.
 
crossy1686 said:
Same, it would be nice to make quick turn arounds on our mistakes, you just worry about who's coming in to replace them.
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You see our transfer record the past decade and, yeah, there's not much hope that we'll get it right, but I don't think it should be too hard to upgrade on both of them. I'm not joking when I say they're two of the most overrated players I've ever seen here.

Our defence was better before Varane arrived, and it was Maguire and Lindelof. Our midfield was better before Casemiro arrived, and it was Fred and McTominay. They couldn't even provide upgrades on two terrible partnerships. With those partnerships in defence and midfield, under a lesser manager in Ole, we produced stuff that was levels above anything we've seen with them two at the heart of our team.
 
El Jefe said:
Just shows how fickle people are on here.

People are actually pushing the agenda that Maguire and Evans are better for us than Varane. This is the same manager than will play Rashford into form no matter what but Varane can’t get the same privileges despite not being as bad as Rashford this season.

The second Maguire has bad games back to back or Evans gets exposed people will be back to the opinions they had of both back in September.

The big games are coming up now, it’s easy for EtH and the fans to back his stupidity in games against Luton and shite like that. Let’s see how many people agree with EtH when we face Liverpool and Bayern.
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I don't think so, I think 99% of the fan base are hoping we go for someone young, fast and with some upside in Jan at CB. Feck these old farts on £300k per week plus.
 
He is overrated by fans anyway because he was so good at Madrid. Never been as good as United as he was at Madrid, and that's if he is fit. Send him off to Saudi with Casemiro and stop buying Madrid's hasbeens.
 
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