VAR Decisions - PL 19/20 Season

[Oldham]

One of the points with VAR was stopping players simulating... well that went well...

 

[sullydnl]

The minute they came up with the clear and obvious it went to shit. Also that they gave quotas for refs to check the screens for the whole season. I watch a lot of Bundesliga and must say even though sometimes it's really strange to have refs run there and check it works much better. This was so bad and I even got my Liverpool mate to agree on that if it had been the other way around the ref would never have given it and it would have been denied by VAR due to it not being a pen .

The interesting thing about this comparison is that I read on ESPN that the Bundesliga initially intended to have a "high threshold" approach similar to the PL's but changed it when it became apparent that it simply wouldn't work.

Despite being one of the last to adopt VAR, the PL seemingly failed to learn from lessons elsewhere. Which makes me worry that they'll also be slower to admit they've got their approach wrong.

 

[Pexbo]

The minute they came up with the clear and obvious it went to shit. Also that they gave quotas for refs to check the screens for the whole season. I watch a lot of Bundesliga and must say even though sometimes it's really strange to have refs run there and check it works much better. This was so bad and I even got my Liverpool mate to agree on that if it had been the other way around the ref would never have given it and it would have been denied by VAR due to it not being a pen .

The only issue I have with referees checking the decisions again themselves is that they're only humans and humans are absolute suckers for confirmation bias. If a referee has made a decision and then goes and views the decision on a monitor, they are going to be looking for evidence that asserts their original decision, rather than attempting to be completely objective and looking at both sides of the coin.

 

[sullydnl]

The only issue I have with referees checking the decisions again themselves is that they're only humans and humans are absolute suckers for confirmation bias. If a referee has made a decision and then goes and views the decision on a monitor, they are going to be looking for evidence that asserts their original decision, rather than attempting to be completely objective and looking at both sides of the coin.

During the world cup that tended not to be the case though, didn't it? Most times when the ref went to the monitor they changed their decision, presumably because at that point there was good reason for them to. It was only occasionally they stuck by it, which is fair enough as that should happen occasionally too.

Though it may be that English refs would behave differently over the course of a full league campaign.

 

[arthurka]

The only issue I have with referees checking the decisions again themselves is that they're only humans and humans are absolute suckers for confirmation bias. If a referee has made a decision and then goes and views the decision on a monitor, they are going to be looking for evidence that asserts their original decision, rather than attempting to be completely objective and looking at both sides of the coin.

More often then not they seem to want to make the right decision. They change their minds more often then not.

 

[Mrs Smoker]

Useless in England.

 

[Hansa]

Useless in England.

Implemented purely to give the lazy refs a breather now and again. It's so strange, this deference shown to the PL refs, as if overturning a wrong decision would be like neutering them or something. But armpit hairs in an offside position is very, very important to get right.

 

[MackRobinson]

The decision against anybody is the issues no matter who it is, it's not being used correctly if it's still open to suggestions or differing opinions from different VAR officials it's not working! There were so called grey areas before there are more now. Grealish for Villa perfect goal, VAR disallowed it through poor Refereenig wrong, hand balls in boxes it's different when goal is scored to not , wrong all these are grey areas , if so just bin it and go back to the human mistakes everyone is used to.

If you want to use VAR only use it for tight offsides nothing else. Then that has been hopeless as well because if a lino raises his flag and ref blows whistle game has to be stopped, no matter on or off side, well that's what's supposed to happen!

Get rid of it now It does not work pointless having it.

No, that means the rule set isn't working. Again Mane WAS fouled, but made a meal of it. You can't overturn calls like that.

Getting rid of VAR b/c it doesn't look at everything is ridiculous.

 

[awop]

So what about the no-call on the Pepe penalty ? I think it's given 99% of the time even without VAR. Having a slight touch of the ball doesn't cancel the following rugby tackle from the Bournemouth defender, does it ?

 

[padr81]

So what about the no-call on the Pepe penalty ? I think it's given 99% of the time even without VAR. Having a slight touch of the ball doesn't cancel the following rugby tackle from the Bournemouth defender, does it ?

Its terrible, I'm pro VAR, the technology is great, but why the Premier League see the point in slowing everything down just to be afraid to disagree with the ref is beyond me. If you have the technology you have to use it, the PL look at it and are afraid to use it.

 

[maniak]

I was expecting the VAR to give it. Some decisions are very hard to understand.

 

[Heinzesight]

Carroll blatant red. Knew what he was doing. Another VAR bag of wank.

 

[Hughie77]

No, that means the rule set isn't working. Again Mane WAS fouled, but made a meal of it. You can't overturn calls like that.

Getting rid of VAR b/c it doesn't look at everything is ridiculous.

Ok you know it all by the sounds of it, it does not work. Look at all the other sports using television match officials etc, and have for years get the right calls. Making a meal of things last season was vilified by pundits fans etc , this season it's acceptable, and VAR is justifying it by the looks of it.

 

[Hughie77]

The interesting thing about this comparison is that I read on ESPN that the Bundesliga initially intended to have a "high threshold" approach similar to the PL's but changed it when it became apparent that it simply wouldn't work.

Despite being one of the last to adopt VAR, the PL seemingly failed to learn from lessons elsewhere. Which makes me worry that they'll also be slower to admit they've got their approach wrong.

Exactly they seem to be they know the best, clear and obvious is suggestable it's a person's interpretation of what's been seen, it differs from game to game, not working is correct.

 

[Hughie77]

Carroll blatant red. Knew what he was doing. Another VAR bag of wank.

It wasn't clear and obvious that his fore arm went into his throat enough it had to come out the other end with his tonsils for it to be clear enough .. yep VAR load of crap.

 

[Irrational.]

Can't blame VAR today. We were horrific.

 

[Jonno]

I don’t really understand VAR. We see Mane feel contact, run off with the ball and then decide to throw himself to the ground. We then see Andy Carroll purposely elbow McTomminay in the penalty box. Neither gets ruled. What’s the point? They’re scared of overturning referee decisions. What is the actual point of it?

 

[MackRobinson]

Ok you know it all by the sounds of it, it does not work. Look at all the other sports using television match officials etc, and have for years get the right calls. Making a meal of things last season was vilified by pundits fans etc , this season it's acceptable, and VAR is justifying it by the looks of it.

You can find examples in other sports if you care to look. The NBA has rules for diving (flopping), but again it has to be clear and obvious. This is nothing new.

 

[Sara125]

So crap that I even completely forgot about the decision

 

[Terminator]

Source :
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/de383f/nicolas_pepe_penalty_shout_vs_bournemouth/

How is this not a pen? Almost as blatant as the David Silva one vs Bournemouth.

 

[sullydnl]

Source :
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/de383f/nicolas_pepe_penalty_shout_vs_bournemouth/

How is this not a pen? Almost as blatant as the David Silva one vs Bournemouth.

All the ref has to say is "I saw there was contact but didn't think it was enough to go down like that" and VAR will be boxed in to letting it stand because of the stupid protocol they're working under, even if they themselves think it's a penalty. That's why it wasn't overturned.

 

[Hughie77]

You can find examples in other sports if you care to look. The NBA has rules for diving (flopping), but again it has to be clear and obvious. This is nothing new.

Read everyone's else's is opinions on VAR, from The Bundesliga to outer Mongolia leagues if there using it, they do not use clear and obvious!! Only the useless FA use it because they know better on how it should be used, where other leagues have learned how it's used The Premier league do not. NBA more contact in that than Rugby and They get it right more than Football where contact is easier to spot weather it's deliberate falling over or just plain cheating. NBA what an example. Bloody hell.. bute

 

[MackRobinson]

Read everyone's else's is opinions on VAR, from The Bundesliga to outer Mongolia leagues if there using it, they do not use clear and obvious!! Only the useless FA use it because they know better on how it should be used, where other leagues have learned how it's used The Premier league do not. NBA more contact in that than Rugby and They get it right more than Football where contact is easier to spot weather it's deliberate falling over or just plain cheating. NBA what an example. Bloody hell.. bute

You brought up other sports...

Look at all the other sports using television match officials etc, and have for years get the right calls.

Not sure why you are surpised.

 

[Megadrive Man]

What is the point of VAR. I haven't wanted it from the start, but if you are going to have it, then use it properly. The decision yesterday with Liverpool's last minute penalty says it all. This was in the dying seconds of the match, & had a massive effect on the league. Was it a penalty, no. Mane either fell or dived, & the only decision should have been a yellow card for him. The referee obviously did a homer & went with the crowd, so it was an ideal situation for VAR to show what it was supposed to do. In other words, overturn a clearly wrong decision. So what does it do. Absolutely nothing. What is the point of it. Then to cap it all the sanctimonious humbug known as Klopp, then comes out with a straight face saying it was an obvious penalty. Can you imagine if it had been a Leicester penalty, the hypercritical twerp would have been jumping up & down with rage.

There was contact and Mane went down. Yes he went down easily but you could just as easily blame Albrighton for two stupid decisions that lead to that penalty.

Do you honestly think Ferguson, Guardiola, Mourinho or virtually any other manager would have reacted any differently?

 

[Hughie77]

You brought up other sports...


Not sure why you are surpised.

NBA is a court game or is played on grass! Tennis is a court game as well if you want to throw them in , both get calls right? Because they have been doing it the right way, not pretending they can operate the system better than others! This why VAR will not work in British Football. The F.A and the premier league think they know better, than the leagues that started using it few seasons ago. Dutch leagues seem to get to problems in it, German one, only the Prem?

 

[montpelier]

Just been on MOTD. Blatant dive by Mane. Not sure how anyone can see it another way? He actually takes another deliberate touch on the ball after the contact to move it away from Allbrighton, stops to think about it and then throws himself down.

exactly this imo

although there is a scouse claim he has his foot stood on - but then I don't think he falls over quite like that

VAR needs to start making some decisions that aren't 1cm offsides in order to serve some useful purpose

this is nonsense all ways around atm

 

[montpelier]

No, that means the rule set isn't working. Again Mane WAS fouled, but made a meal of it. You can't overturn calls like that.

Getting rid of VAR b/c it doesn't look at everything is ridiculous.

he wasn't 'fouled' - there was some contact not much more significant than being leaned against.

Mane then plays the ball, has a little think, and decides to try for a penalty with his next action/movement.

I can understand the ref being fooled (esp a non footy playing ref) - I think VAR with some claws is perfect for this.

If you disagree with that, fine. Let's not bother with VAR because it will hardly ever do anything - or will be like it is now, you could say.

 

[Anustart89]

Did anyone see an explanation for why an elbow to the face wasn’t punished by var? Did mike dean see it and claim that it wasn’t worthy of a red or what?

 

[OldSchoolManc]

Ref watch again just confirms that it’s an old boys club that are out to protect each other.
Dermot Gallagher says that all the decisions were correct.

VAR is a complete waste of time, unless as someone else pointed out, the VAR reviewers are only shown incidents with no knowledge of what the ref actually gave. They dare not go against the On field decisions.

 

[UncleBob]

Ref watch again just confirms that it’s an old boys club that are out to protect each other.
Dermot Gallagher says that all the decisions were correct.

VAR is a complete waste of time, unless as someone else pointed out, the VAR reviewers are only shown incidents with no knowledge of what the ref actually gave. They dare not go against the On field decisions.

Gallagher is a bit of a knob.

On Martial vs Crystal Palace

INCIDENT: Early in the second half, Anthony Martial drove into the box, and appeared to be pulled down by Martin Kelly, sending a shot flying wide of the far corner. The referee, Paul Tierney, did not signal for a penalty and the incident was not reviewed by VAR. DERMOT SAYS: VAR must follow the referee.

On Matip vs Newcastle

INCIDENT: As a corner was delivered by Liverpool, Lascelles pulled Matip to the floor near the far post with his arms around shoulders. However, referee Andre Marriner waved away the claims for a penalty with nothing awarded through VAR. DERMOT'S VERDICT: Incorrect decision.

Liverpool should have been awarded a penalty when Newcastle defender Jamaal Lascelles pulled down Joel Matip, says Dermot Gallagher.

 

[Hughie77]

Gallagher is a bit of a knob.

On Martial vs Crystal Palace

INCIDENT: Early in the second half, Anthony Martial drove into the box, and appeared to be pulled down by Martin Kelly, sending a shot flying wide of the far corner. The referee, Paul Tierney, did not signal for a penalty and the incident was not reviewed by VAR. DERMOT SAYS: VAR must follow the referee.

On Matip vs Newcastle

INCIDENT: As a corner was delivered by Liverpool, Lascelles pulled Matip to the floor near the far post with his arms around shoulders. However, referee Andre Marriner waved away the claims for a penalty with nothing awarded through VAR. DERMOT'S VERDICT: Incorrect decision.

Liverpool should have been awarded a penalty when Newcastle defender Jamaal Lascelles pulled down Joel Matip, says Dermot Gallagher.

Exactly this is why it hasn't worked and won't work , they are supposedly to keep flags down until offsides are viewed, flags go up on or off side, some players will stop when flag goes up. Refs VAR have not got a clue how to operate the technology they have. Pointless having it .

 

[UncleBob]

Exactly this is why it hasn't worked and won't work , they are supposedly to keep flags down until offsides are viewed, flags go up on or off side, some players will stop when flag goes up. Refs VAR have not got a clue how to operate the technology they have. Pointless having it .

That's not what makes his quote funny. The Martial and Matip incidents are similar in terms of the ref saying that he's seen the incident but didn't think there was enough to it, so VAR just follows the ref

On the Martial incident he ignores what happens and simply states that VAR must follow the referee. On the Matip situation, he just says it's an incorrect decision

 

[Hughie77]

That's not what makes his quote funny. The Martial and Matip incidents are similar in terms of the ref saying that he's seen the incident but didn't think there was enough to it, so VAR just follows the ref

On the Martial incident he ignores what happens and simply states that VAR must follow the referee. On the Matip situation, he just says it's an incorrect decision

Ok .

 

[André Dominguez]

It will take a few season and a couple more of tech tweaks until the VAR becomes more fluid and effective.

It's difficult not to get it wrong when making such a drastic change in the refereeing dynamics.

 

[awop]

It will take a few season and a couple more of tech tweaks until the VAR becomes more fluid and effective.

It's difficult not to get it wrong when making such a drastic change in the refereeing dynamics.

Could have avoided this waste of time if they bothered checking how it was used everywhere else or using basic human common sense. As frustrating as it is, at least some wrong decisions have been corrected.

 

[saivet]

Why wasn't VAR used? I thought they check all red cards?

I understand the emotion of the game, given the context of what happened, but the decision likely resulted in Spurs dropping 2 points.

 

[A-man]

Why wasn't VAR used? I thought they check all red cards?

I understand the emotion of the game, given the context of what happened, but the decision likely resulted in Spurs dropping 2 points.

Looked like the ref changed his yellow to red when he saw how bad the injury was. Very strange there was no VAR check on that.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

This is one of the things I don't like about VAR. Crystal Palace just had a goal disallowed because of a push on a set piece. Was there a push? Yes there was, however it had nothing to do with the play as TAA won the header and flicked it onto a Palace player. The other thing is that on every single set play, if you look hard enough, you will find a foul. I like VAR for things like offside (however I think the rule needs to be changed) and things like penalties and clear and obvious mistakes that had an impact on a play. But I don't like calls like this. How far back can VAR look on a play to call off a goal? This is the part that is ruining the game...

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Can we change the title to LiVARpool decisions - PL 19/20 Season?

This is one of the things I don't like about VAR. Crystal Palace just had a goal disallowed because of a push on a set piece. Was there a push? Yes there was, however it had nothing to do with the play as TAA won the header and flicked it onto a Palace player. The other thing is that on every single set play, if you look hard enough, you will find a foul. I like VAR for things like offside (however I think the rule needs to be changed) and things like penalties and clear and obvious mistakes that had an impact on a play. But I don't like calls like this. How far back can VAR look on a play to call off a goal? This is the part that is ruining the game...

They were looking for reasons to disallow it. If it happens at the other end it's a goal.

 

[El Zoido]

Can we change the title to LiVARpool decisions - PL 19/20 Season?


They were looking for reasons to disallow it. If it happens at the other end it's a goal.

You’re right. Seriously, imagine Liverpool scoring this exact goal, there’s zero chance they disallow it. We all know it’s true.