I'm not afraid to admit when I am wrong, I'm arrogant, but not that arrogant!
VAR and Refs | General Discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
Great.
Because Webb originally said he promised we wouldn’t have games re-refereed. But (because refs are awful), lots of poor decisions were RIGHTLY called by VAR.
Webb then said the threshold for VAR to step in would be higher and basically for silly ref mistakes or instances when ref didn’t have all the facts.
Yesterday should have been one of those instances. I’ve got no issue (ish) with ref decision as he thought he saw a high boot with studs. He also bought Spurs players reaction (as he did all game). VAR should have called him and said it’s definitely worth looking at all angles and I’m sure if he had done, he’d have changed it to a yellow
It may be a "generic" statement, unless you can categorically prove other wise, it happens.
As I understand it, VAR told him it was the right call and there was no need to review.Great.
Because Webb originally said he promised we wouldn’t have games re-refereed. But (because refs are awful), lots of poor decisions were RIGHTLY called by VAR.
Webb then said the threshold for VAR to step in would be higher and basically for silly ref mistakes or instances when ref didn’t have all the facts.
Yesterday should have been one of those instances. I’ve got no issue (ish) with ref decision as he thought he saw a high boot with studs. He also bought Spurs players reaction (as he did all game). VAR should have called him and said it’s definitely worth looking at all angles and I’m sure if he had done, he’d have changed it to a yellow
Gallagher infers in his analysis that it was a team decision, and that the assistant who had a better view, merely said over the headset ("thats a red")
Before headsets the assistant would have flagged and called the Ref over and had a discussion.
I don't think we've been shown any footage to see if the assistant flagged or not, (he should have)
With rugby the ref stays on the pitch and they look at the footage simultaneously, together. It helps that the players are generally better disciplined and the captain is the only player that ever approaches the referee. The whole thing still takes several minutes if it’s anything other than barn door obvious.
In football the referee spends a minute or two dealing with players shouting at him and each other. He then issues a card (or doesn’t issue a card) and only then does he (sometimes) start to talk to the VAR guy. At which point he would walk all the way over to the side of the pitch and only then begin a lengthy back and forth discussion, looking at every angle in extreme slow motion.
I kind of agree with you that red cards are so important it’s worth doing that but worth noting than even in a stop start game like rugby they got so fecked off with all the delays they created a new “bunker” system because video reviews were taking so long. This new system means that a player who makes a dodgy looking tackle gets a quick video review followed by a yellow card, is sent off for 10 minutes (a punishment that doesn’t exist in football) and the footage then gets an extremely detailed review without any input from onfield referee, after which the yellow may be upgraded to red and he never comes back on again.
Exactly this. It should be so straightforward but instead we are in this abysmal system where the VAR is asking themselves two questions “do I think it’s the right decision” and “if not, is it so obviously wrong that I should intervene”. It’s a complete nonsense.
I really hope that they release the audio of this incident in due course as it will be fascinating to hear the dialogue. I’d bet that VAR doesn’t even ask Kavanagh if he’s taken the slip into account.
It will also be interesting to see if there was any chat between the assistant and the ref
What they should be asking is if the ref should have another look given it's a game changing call. Reds, pens need scrutiny.
VAR shouldn't decide anything, just telling the ref to look again and call what they see.
Consistency is a big problem, we got a pen on Sat that was softer than the one denied against us the week before, for example.
Imagine hearing this as an Arsenal fan, after Declan Rice got a second yellow for a far less egregious case of ‘kicking the ball away’.
Has Gallagher defended it yet?
Defended what?
Oh yeah, Saka was just about to take the freekick, while on his arse.
The referee and VAR red card decision yesterday.
It was so bad, he thought it was a yellow.
Still annoyed with Maddison taking two steps after the tackle, THEN collapsing and screaming. And then saying unlucky to Bruno.
How is that relevant? Bernado Silva was still laying on the ground injured when Trossard booted it away and everyone unanimously agreed that was a deserved second yellow.
It's from this match:
The incident is from the 30 second mark.
The referee told the goal scorer, at half time, the the "optimal decision" would be that the on field decision (free kick to the goalkeeper) would be overturned.
After the match the audio was released, I can't find it now but will post if I do, and it was just shocking.
You used the Rice incident as a comparison. I'm not bothered either way, the rules and their handling are a joke and all teams/fans are suffering.
The Rice example was comparing the ferociousness of the kick. Ndidi properly boots it out of the pitch whereas Rice lightly taps it an inch from where the ball originally was. But yes, you’re right. We agree, generally. The inconsistencies from game to game, and often times within the same game, is a joke.
Hell froze over
I rarely get involved in these conversations as fans tend to exaggerate, but seeing as you're neutral(?) I'd have to ask if you really think he "booted" the ball? He pretty much tapped it as he came to a stop and the ball slowly rolled to the line.
Even he agreed it wasn't a red!
Wow, even Gallagher thought a ref decision was wrong?!
So it's just the bitterest of ABUs who thought it was the right call, alongside the ref and VAR official. Typical.
So it's just the bitterest of ABUs who thought it was the right call, alongside the ref and VAR official. Typical.
Yep, it really is that easy. Rugby has way more stoppages and stops the clock when big decisions are made, but for game changing decisions like this that should 100% be the way to go.
Its noticeable how low profile VAR has become this season. The less it is used, the better it seems!! Unfortunately I think it will
still end up causing major problems as the season progresses, because of all the reasons you and others have identified.
Especially with the offsides, which will be decisive in some big game. For me, those are the marginal calls which most infuriate
fans and players.
The other noticeable change is that players are, unsurprisingly, trying to game the system in any way they can. Turn yellow cards into
red cards, get opponents booked early in the game so that the opposing team is disrupted. Many of the problems are down to
this gaming by players and coaches. If, for example, we go back to the first yellow card having a higher threshold than we currently see.
Then well-organised teams like City will go back to rotational fouling to stifle any attacking opportunities for their opponents. Cynical
teams can play either side of the fence when it comes to gamesmanship/cheating. On reflection, the early yellow cards are probably
better than the rotational fouling, which crushes the game.
And VAR cant do anything about it.
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So there seems to be consensus across the footballing world that the red card was completely unjustified.
Why haven’t we heard any pressure from United over this? I imagine we are going to be too meek to appeal it and then wonder why referees are so emboldened to piss on us.
Why haven’t we heard any pressure from United over this? I imagine we are going to be too meek to appeal it and then wonder why referees are so emboldened to piss on us.
What's the point of VAR?
State of the dopes operating this. Feck off!
There's no need to play it out in the media. They did the sensible thing which is follow protocol and appeal - which they won.
To correct stuff like this, but it doesn't actually work...
Analogue non VAR football was much better to watch, even with mistakes than what we have now...
Mistakes + all the game slow down and annoyance.
We're the weakest club in England in this regard
Does the club not get the recording of the discussion between the VAR and the ref?
Good point…awful performance from the VAR operator, and his rationale should be highlighted.
to be fair they did row back slightly when they realised how ridiculous they were being.Insanely stupid from the VAR ref but glad it got correct.
Having bans retroactively overturned in the VAR era is beyond laughable
Knew it would get overturned
It highlights that the changes this season to stop VAR from interfering with the referees on field decision is a complete failure.