VAR and Refs | General Discussion

So, Morgan Gibbs White kicks out after Varane (?) which in itself is a red card. He then continues to commit two bookable offences in the span of five seconds before he verbally assaults the ref twice in five minutes (which Dalot was sent off for against Liverpool and booked for today).

And what did MGW get? A booking. Completely insane inconsistency in the refereeing and once again, we’re the victim.
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
No. Or Neville.

Ten Hag or any player interviewed should though.

Worrall got red carded at OT and Forest wrote a complaint to Howard Webb about it.

I don’t want to be moaning non stop but we’ve got to be smarter about this… Fergie would have been all over it after the Dalot red and raised the thought in every refs mind for our games. I know Ten Hag is foreign but his interviews are so passive.
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Agreed.
 
The ref was poor today and got lot wrong today like giving a Forest Goalkick when it should have been a United corner then later giving a United corner when it should have been a Forest goalkick.

Also the Forest keeper hand balled it on a back pass and got away with it.
 
The Gibbs-White incident which easily could have a warranted two separate yellows reeks of "I don't want to be scrutinized for possibly benefiting United a win" as it would be discussed by pundits for days and possibly drawn a Wolves-esque media onslaught.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
The ref was poor today and got lot wrong today like giving a Forest Goalkick when it should have been a United corner then later giving a United corner when it should have been a Forest goalkick.

Also the Forest keeper hand balled it on a back pass and got away with it.
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Stopped the game for a 'back injury' as well.

To the guy he should have sent off.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
It should have been an indirect freekick to United for handball by the Keeper
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Is that not reviewable by VAR for a clear and obvious error? It denied a potential possession/chance for United.

LDUred said:
Stopped the game for a 'back injury' as well.

To the guy he should have sent off.
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That was odd as United had taken control and began to push forward only for the ref to then stop play. I guess he thought it may have been a head injury but where it occurred certainly was not preventing or interrupting the flow of the play, and quick glance would tell him it was not a head injury and possibly play-acting. We have seen play on in these incidents numerous times and should have been until the ball went out of play, or possession changed, or United played backward.
 
I mean, we all knew that the "getting booked twice for doing the same thing twice in quick succession" rule was never going to be enforced again, so I wasn't surprised at all that Gibbs-White got away with doing the same thing he got booked for multiple times after being booked, on top of making three wild tackles and kicking out at players in the same sequence of events.

But it's fecking infuriating anyway, innit?
 
Seriously, before people accuse the referee of not knowing the backpass rule, maybe read up on the rule yourself? Turner was allowed to handle it under the circumstances because he attempted a clearance. Rules may be strange but the call was correct.
 
Jev said:
Seriously, before people accuse the referee of not knowing the backpass rule, maybe read up on the rule yourself? Turner was allowed to handle it under the circumstances because he attempted a clearance. Rules may be strange but the call was correct.
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He isnt allowed to handle it unless another player touches it first
 
RedRocket9908 said:
He isnt allowed to handle it unless another player touches it first
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Yes! Again, read the rules. From 12.2 in The Laws of the Game:

An indirect free kick is awarded if a goalkeeper, inside their penalty area, commits any of the following offences:
  • touches the ball with the hand/arm, unless the goalkeeper has clearly kicked or attempted to kick the ball to release it into play, after:
    • it has been deliberately kicked to the goalkeeper by a team-mate
 
Anustart89 said:
I mean, we all knew that the "getting booked twice for doing the same thing twice in quick succession" rule was never going to be enforced again, so I wasn't surprised at all that Gibbs-White got away with doing the same thing he got booked for multiple times after being booked, on top of making three wild tackles and kicking out at players in the same sequence of events.

But it's fecking infuriating anyway, innit?
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He also threw a tantrum while on a yellow when Varane brought down elanga. What a horrible little prick he is
 
If Bruno does the same thing it will a yellow twice, ref will point towards two places on the pitch and bring out a red.

Did you see how quick the ref went for his yellow card in the previous match when Bruno tried to take quick free kick, he knew Bruno was about to complain about getting blocked and was rushing forward hand going into his pocket. We have instant cards for looking, going to complain, I wouldn't even call it dissent and I've seen refs take a ton of abuse from other players and nothing. We have to walk on water and not question the ref or it's a booking. See Dalot.
 
Garnacho's Shoelaces said:
Doesn't fit their predetermined narrative.
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I was shocked at Neville not picking up on this, everyone watching connected Gibbs Whites behaviour to the Dalot incident against liverpool and nothing was said dispite it being significantly worse, when Dalot then picked up a yellow for calling this out still nothing was said, it was bizarre, almost awkward, definitely seems premeditated.
 
The referees don’t even try to pretend that they aren’t biased against us. I’m not saying that there’s some grand conspiracy against, but referees definitely do seem to make decisions at our expense more often than not.
 
The year is 2038.

Phil Neville's son has just captained United. He's just given the referee dogs abuse...

"Diogo Dalot was sent off for less than that!"

Shouts the lone wolf in the crowd. He's not wrong, but the Old Trafford crowd don't have a clue what he's talking about. Silence.

Fin.
 
I’m convinced the dissent rule only applies to us. I don’t even know what Eriksen did To get booked, it was far less than what MGW did
 
What about that penalty for handball that VAR didn't even review? Looked a much better shout than some that have been given to me. It's true he was probably unsighted by the players in front of him but it wasn't blasted from 2 yards, it looped over from the wing so he had time to see the flight of the ball.
 
Cpt Negative said:
I’m convinced the dissent rule only applies to us. I don’t even know what Eriksen did To get booked, it was far less than what MGW did
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Up to December 3. there were 80 bookings for dissent in the PL, compared to 24 last season. Looking at the PL, Championship, the national league system and the top two women's leagues, there's been an increase from 966 to 1 813.

It is very clearly a general thing, not a United thing. Dissent is this season's surrounding the ref.
 
Cpt Negative said:
I’m convinced the dissent rule only applies to us. I don’t even know what Eriksen did To get booked, it was far less than what MGW did
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Gibbs-White was 2 yellow card fouls, lord knows how he got away with it. I cannot remember the last time a refs bottled booking one of our players at OT, seems any minor scuffle and it's 100% certain Dalot, Casemiro or someone takes a card to even things out.
 
NotThatSoph said:
Up to December 3. there were 80 bookings for dissent in the PL, compared to 24 last season. Looking at the PL, Championship, the national league system and the top two women's leagues, there's been an increase from 966 to 1 813.

It is very clearly a general thing, not a United thing. Dissent is this season's surrounding the ref.
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80 over 20 teams - averages 4 per team - if everyone was equally disrespectful to the ref. We've had 5 in the last 3 league games... Forest: Dalot and Eriksen, Villa: Bruno, Liverpool Dalot twice.
 
Cpt Negative said:
80 over 20 teams - averages 4 per team - if everyone was equally disrespectful to the ref. We've had 5 in the last 3 league games... Forest: Dalot and Eriksen, Villa: Bruno, Liverpool Dalot twice.
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That’s hilarious. Especially considering the circumstances. Bruno got yellowed for complaining that an opposition player stood in front of the ball at a free kick to stop us countering. Don’t think the Villa player did. Dalot gets two yellows for complaining about a blatantly wrong refereeing decision. The first time anyone has got two yellows for dissent in the same moment. And then another for complaining that MGW got away with committing three fouls and shouting at the ref in the same passage of play with just a yellow given. Take your pick which offence it was actually given for.
 
Bale Bale Bale said:
Utd fans never going to let the Romero handball go are they? :lol:

Don't even know what they want at this point. For every clear handball from now on to not be given just to validate the one that went against them?
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Well feckwits like Gallagher admitting the ref and the VAR team obviously fecked up a big decision would be a start.
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
No. Or Neville.

Ten Hag or any player interviewed should though.

Worrall got red carded at OT and Forest wrote a complaint to Howard Webb about it.

I don’t want to be moaning non stop but we’ve got to be smarter about this… Fergie would have been all over it after the Dalot red and raised the thought in every refs mind for our games. I know Ten Hag is foreign but his interviews are so passive.
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He's way too meek. Barely comments on ridiculous decisions against us.
 
Cpt Negative said:
80 over 20 teams - averages 4 per team - if everyone was equally disrespectful to the ref. We've had 5 in the last 3 league games... Forest: Dalot and Eriksen, Villa: Bruno, Liverpool Dalot twice.
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Those games aren't included in the 80. It was 115 bookings for dissent by December 13, more now.
 
Bale Bale Bale said:
Utd fans never going to let the Romero handball go are they? :lol:

Don't even know what they want at this point. For every clear handball from now on to not be given just to validate the one that went against them?
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From the fanbase that still bring up a decision from 20 years ago.
 
Villa game yesterday.

Spent ages looking for Foster to be offside on the halfway line by a toe nail. Didn't spend the same amount of time looking at a potential offside on the Villa goal. He probably wasn't off, but it's the same issue around the moment they choose to freeze the frame that decides it.

And that penalty at the end.... joke of a decision.
 
On 606 this week they did a phone in asking listeners what rule change would they like to see for 2024. Somebody rang in and said why not draw all the VAR lines from the feet of the players, rather than armpits, hands, heads etc etc. Too sensible a change to be implemented?
 
NotThatSoph said:
Those games aren't included in the 80. It was 115 bookings for dissent by December 13, more now.
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I think the point was that 5 in 3 games is a considerably higher rate than we’ve seen all season. Which would clearly be true. You could argue that United dissent more but when you see what Gibbs White got away with in the same game it doesn’t really wash.
 
antsmithmk said:
On 606 this week they did a phone in asking listeners what rule change would they like to see for 2024. Somebody rang in and said why not draw all the VAR lines from the feet of the players, rather than armpits, hands, heads etc etc. Too sensible a change to be implemented?
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How is it sensible? You can score from any part of your body apart from your hands/arms. Why arbitrarily choose feet? Because it’s called “football”?
 
Garnacho's Shoelaces said:
I would rather have thicker lines and offside requiring daylight between them/no overlapping lines than an armpit offside, etc.
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I could get on board with this. I think the actual motivation for the offside rule has been forgotten - it’s about stopping a striker camping in the opposition’s area waiting for the long ball. If the technology was up to scratch it would actually be the easiest rule to implement but for that you need more cameras, higher definition and higher frame rate and a sensor on the ball which determines the exact moment the player makes contact for the pass. The only concern I have with your suggestion is that when it comes down to it, all you are really doing is arbitrarily deciding where the edge of a line needs to be to determine if a player is offside.
 
So those thinking "daylight offside" would be better, you'd be happy to see something like this given as a goal?

Evu49orXIAYC_2t.jpg:large

They introduced thicker lines for the defenders this season and it's working well, it's only people not understanding how angles work and how they're accounted for that have any problem with it.
 
Bale Bale Bale said:
So those thinking "daylight offside" would be better, you'd be happy to see something like this given as a goal?

Evu49orXIAYC_2t.jpg:large

They introduced thicker lines for the defenders this season and it's working well, it's only people not understanding how angles work and how they're accounted for that have any problem with it.
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That would be ridiculous but in reality it wouldn't look like this I think. Defending teams would compensate and adjust their positions.
 
acnumber9 said:
I think the point was that 5 in 3 games is a considerably higher rate than we’ve seen all season. Which would clearly be true. You could argue that United dissent more but when you see what Gibbs White got away with in the same game it doesn’t really wash.
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Or Nunez in the same match that saw Dalot sent off. It really couldn’t be any more obvious that the way dissent has been handled in our last few games is not even close to even handed.
 
Pexbo said:
How is it sensible? You can score from any part of your body apart from your hands/arms. Why arbitrarily choose feet? Because it’s called “football”?
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Because a) it's more accurate for a human to draw lines from feet then arbitrary picking points on an arm and b) the idea of gaining an "advantage" from simply leaning forward (when attackers and defenders will by nature be going on different directions) is negligible.
 
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Annihilate Now! said:
Because a) it's more accurate for a human to draw lines from feet then arbitrary picking points on an arm and b) the idea of gaining an "advantage" from simply leaning forward (when attackers and defenders will by nature be going on different directions) is my negligible.
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How, in the Christ, are VAR meant to pick out feet from a crowded penalty area?
 
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