Van Gaal and Transfers

Kallech33 said:
At Bayern van Gaal was actually heavily criticised for his transfers.

In the end van Gaal was seen as an ambivalent figure. He got praise for the way he developed Müller and Badstuber on the other hand he was seen as someone who got his transfers wrong. Hanging Gomez and Tymoshchuk (who were very good players the season before) out to dry, forcing Lucio (who went on to play an amazing season for Inter) out of the club and refusing to spend the money the club made available to him in 10/11 was seen as...not so smart and stubborn.
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Yeah ambivalent is the right word for sure, the fact that he didn't want to sign players at all after winning the double and making a Champions League final still remains very weird.

But about Tymoschuk you could say he used Schweinsteiger + Van Bommel as CM - both were better than Tymoschuk.

Lucio got an offer from Inter I believe, and playing in Italy for Jose Mourinho, for a very good salary, don't know if LVG/Bayern could have kept him. Didn't really need him that season anyway and he was finished after Mourinho left Inter.

Pranjic is a very decent substitute player for 7 million, 50+ caps for Croatia. Braafheid is on Büttners level, and we payed more for Buttner than Bayern did for Braafheid so not that bad when he wasn't good enough, pure back-up player/gamble.

For Mario Gomez, LVG had to change the whole system because he was so limited. Great goalscorer but not a good footballer. Joachim Low did the same at Euro 2012 I think, Gomez scored 2 goals vs. Holland but was still benched the next match because he was too static and not creative or good at the ball.

Question still remains, why on earth LVG did not buy anyone in his second season. Never heard his comments about that, but I think the World Cup had something to do with it. Toni Kroos came back from Leverkusen, so midfield and attack were perfect already. But he still could've gotten some defenders for the 10/11 season, instead he gave Breno, Badstuber and Alaba the chance. First season Badstuber was used more as a left back I think together with Contento, second season it was Alaba/Contento for left back and Badstuber as a CB. So it actually makes a lot of sense he didn't buy anyone.
 
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Raoul said:
At Bayern, outside of Robben, he didn't bring in many "stars" from the outside, but he did give the likes of Kroos, Muller, Badstuber, and Alaba a chance. Suppose that's good news for the likes of Powell, Lingard, Wilson, Zaha, Lawrence, as well as Adnan of course.
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If they are good enough. I wouldnt compare the talent Bayern had in their ranks in those years with the ones we got.

Neither did they have such obvious weaknesses in their team in such a competetive league.
 
RedRover said:
I think that's the right way to go. The fact is that at the top end of the table you're rarely going to get youth team players good enough, quickly enough to make the grade.

If there are players good enough then great - they can be integrated into a successful side but you can't rely on that.

As it is its obviously a good thing if and when player break through but success, however that's achieved is what matters. There are no prizes for pushing players through, however satisfying that might be.
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You'd have to have someone special like a Rooney, or an Owen, or a Whiteside to see that and we haven't got anyone like that coming through the ranks. Januzaj had a remarkable season overall but, barring his debut game at Sunderland, he hardly set the league on fire and was more often than not, on the bench. It'll be interesting to see how well Shaw does at United. He seems confident enough but the expectations at United must far exceed anything he's experienced so far.
 
Browniee said:

that's fair enough, but I doubt Bayern had as many weak spots in their them as we so right now. Surely LVG will see that in the forthcoming tour. It was a good idea to arrange friendliest against decent European teams aswell, giving LVG a proper look at some players against top teams.
It is going to be very interesting to see who leaves this summer
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That's the squad Bayern had in 09/10:
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-bayern-munchen/kader/verein/27/saison_id/2009
Decent starting XI (apart from defense and GK) after Bayern bought Robben but not much depth.

I think the bolded part will be very important and I hope you're right and van Gaal learnt from his time at Bayern where he was a bit stubborn and didn't want to spend big money (reminds me of someone we all know;)) to improve the squad despite obvious weak spots (GK, CB, LB).
 
Mali_Zeus said:
On a side not, whatever happened with Badstuber, where did he disappear?
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Think he had a major injury with his ACL(?) twice. He's back now, but I highly doubt he'll ever hit the levels he once could have.
 
Henrik Larsson said:
Yeah I agree, but who's going to sell us a world class midfielder? I'm sure that if Modric or Kroos or Vidal for that matter wanted to join us, we'd sign them. With Anderson gone we still have Fellaini, Fletcher, Cleverly, Carrick, Herrera and optionally Phil Jones and Rooney who can play the 2 CM slots.

So that's 5-7 options/players for 2 positions. For the #10 we've got enough options too with Rooney, Kagawa, Mata and some makeshifts like Cleverly and then there might be youth players. So that's at least 10 options for 3 midfield positions and we don't play in Europe this season.

Makes me think LVG was just managing expectations. Surely we need to offload at least one of Fellaini, Fletcher or Cleverly before we can even sign a new CM? What club wants to buy them?

And then there's the question again, who will sell a world class CM to us/what world class CM is available for us?
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We don't need world class CMs, Herrera isn't one yet but he's still a good player. We need to have many good players if we can't get world class ones, we have too many average ones in midfield (Fellaini, Carrick, Fletcher, Anderson). Step by step we'll them shining toys but first let's start with solid performers if we can't get them.
 
Mali_Zeus said:
On a side note, whatever happened with Badstuber, where did he disappear?
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Had plenty of injuries, including 2 torn ACLs and was out for about 16 months. Played his first game for Bayern a few days ago.
Was Germany's best CB before his injury but I doubt that he'll ever be the same again. Almost 1,5 years out at the crucial age of 24, can't see him coming back from that.
 
Moriarty said:
You'd have to have someone special like a Rooney, or an Owen, or a Whiteside to see that and we haven't got anyone like that coming through the ranks. Januzaj had a remarkable season overall but, barring his debut game at Sunderland, he hardly set the league on fire and was more often than not, on the bench. It'll be interesting to see how well Shaw does at United. He seems confident enough but the expectations at United must far exceed anything he's experienced so far.
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I personally think Shaw will be fine. At left back you're protected to a degree and he's got plenty of PL experience. For Southampton he's looked like an old head on young shoulders - that's the sign of a special player.
 
Godfather said:
If they are good enough. I wouldnt compare the talent Bayern had in their ranks in those years with the ones we got.

Neither did they have such obvious weaknesses in their team in such a competetive league.
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Spot on.
 
RedRover said:
I personally think Shaw will be fine. At left back you're protected to a degree and he's got plenty of PL experience. For Southampton he's looked like an old head on young shoulders - that's the sign of a special player.
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Good. To be honest, I really haven't seen that much of him. Bit pricey for a full back but he's English and that's to be expected. I hope Van Gaal sorts out the right back berth. As much as I like Rafael, he does seem to get injured a bit too often and the thought of Smalling playing there isn't something that fills me with confidence. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see Smalling loaned out or maybe even sold.
 
Moriarty said:
Good. To be honest, I really haven't seen that much of him. Bit pricey for a full back but he's English and that's to be expected. I hope Van Gaal sorts out the right back berth. As much as I like Rafael, he does seem to get injured a bit too often and the thought of Smalling playing there isn't something that fills me with confidence. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see Smalling loaned out or maybe even sold.
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What ? We don't even have enough CBs as it is and you think Smalling will be sold ?
 
Moriarty said:
Good. To be honest, I really haven't seen that much of him. Bit pricey for a full back but he's English and that's to be expected. I hope Van Gaal sorts out the right back berth. As much as I like Rafael, he does seem to get injured a bit too often and the thought of Smalling playing there isn't something that fills me with confidence. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see Smalling loaned out or maybe even sold.
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As good as Rafael can be going forward I personally think his lack of discipline positionally and eagerness to get forward can expose the defence. Van Gaal likes a system it seems, where every player does his job. It'll be interesting to see what happens.
 
There's a huge difference between taking over Bayern who had just won the league the season before. Barca who had done the same and Ajax firmly lodged in at the top of Dutch football and taking over a giant club like Us who had finished 7th the year before with ambitions to not only improve by 3 places but also challenge for the title again.

That isn't just tactics it's personel and he will know it as will Woodward as will Giggs. He is currently assessing who will go basically. His list of players to Woodward will be who he needs regardless of who goes. Let's hope his old favourites are on there Vidal, Hummels, Strootman, Reus then we can begin a serious contention for the title.

He will know all about our team, how important players like Vidic, Evra and Ferdinand were. How we don't have anything in comparison to Robben on the wings and how in CM we are severely lacking and can almost be pointed at as to why we have fallen so hard.
 
SolidShite said:
There's a huge difference between taking over Bayern who had just won the league the season before. Barca who had done the same and Ajax firmly lodged in at the top of Dutch football and taking over a giant club like Us who had finished 7th the year before with ambitions to not only improve by 3 places but also challenge for the title again.

That isn't just tactics it's personel and he will know it as will Woodward as will Giggs. He is currently assessing who will go basically. His list of players to Woodward will be who he needs regardless of who goes. Let's hope his old favourites are on there Vidal, Hummels, Strootman, Reus then we can begin a serious contention for the title.

He will know all about our team, how important players like Vidic, Evra and Ferdinand were. How we don't have anything in comparison to Robben on the wings and how in CM we are severely lacking and can almost be pointed at as to why we have fallen so hard.
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If that is the case the numbers of outs could be insane

Cleverly Anderson fellaini fletcher nani Zaha young Hernandez, to go along with Ferdinand Vidic Evra butner allot of names
 
Oneunited26 said:
If that is the case the numbers of outs could be insane

Cleverly Anderson fellaini fletcher nani Zaha young Hernandez, to go along with Ferdinand Vidic Evra butner allot of names
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i understand your reason, but that would be too many IMO. Id rather get rid of few now, bring in some new blood and then next summer the same. anderson fletcher and young should go. Id give zaha another throw of the dice and cleverly and fellani. Hernandez is always usefull on the bench as an guy to bring on if a goal is needed
 
SolidShite said:
There's a huge difference between taking over Bayern who had just won the league the season before. Barca who had done the same and Ajax firmly lodged in at the top of Dutch football and taking over a giant club like Us who had finished 7th the year before with ambitions to not only improve by 3 places but also challenge for the title again.

That isn't just tactics it's personel and he will know it as will Woodward as will Giggs. He is currently assessing who will go basically. His list of players to Woodward will be who he needs regardless of who goes. Let's hope his old favourites are on there Vidal, Hummels, Strootman, Reus then we can begin a serious contention for the title.

He will know all about our team, how important players like Vidic, Evra and Ferdinand were. How we don't have anything in comparison to Robben on the wings and how in CM we are severely lacking and can almost be pointed at as to why we have fallen so hard.
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Neither of them had, actually, they'd both finished second. Still a fair whack better than we did but both needed a bit of revitalising.
 
I think Van Gaal will be aware that Woodward has a product to sell to the world and will be able to fulfil his philosophy within Woodward's boundaries.

It'll be a case of Woodward saying to Van Gaal "look, I understand that to win this race you would like a four wheel drive car with a rear-engine design. How about choosing from a Bugatti, Lamborghini or Ferrari rather than a Ford, Renault or Fiat?"
 
kouroux said:
What ? We don't even have enough CBs as it is and you think Smalling will be sold ?
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Yep. I think we'll be signing a new CB. I don't think Smalling is anywhere near good enough to step into the shoes of either Rio or Vidic. We need a good, commanding figure at the back; the type of player that United have traditionally had there since decades ago. Jones may fit the bill for raw power but Smalling doesn't have Rio's ball skills. I think he'll go.
 
Moriarty said:
Yep. I think we'll be signing a new CB. I don't think Smalling is anywhere near good enough to step into the shoes of either Rio or Vidic. We need a good, commanding figure at the back; the type of player that United have traditionally had there since decades ago. Jones may fit the bill for raw power but Smalling doesn't have Rio's ball skills. I think he'll go.
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Smalling isn't going anywhere. He's an excellent young centre back who has been played at right back too often were it doesn't suit him at all. It's the equivalent of playing Carrick as a winger.
 
Pexbo said:
Smalling isn't going anywhere. He's an excellent young centre back who has been played at right back too often were it doesn't suit him at all. It's the equivalent of playing Carrick as a winger.
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He's no full back. As for him being a regular starter in the middle of the defence, we'll have to agree to disagree.
 
How well known were badstuber, alaba, kroos and muller before they were put into the Bayern team? Were they already seen as having big futures or is van gaal capable of moulding great players?
 
AkaAkuma said:
How well known were badstuber, alaba, kroos and muller before they were put into the Bayern team? Were they already seen as having big futures or is van gaal capable of moulding great players?
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Alaba was a midfielder before LVG convinced him to become a left back and he has been a mainstay in their defence since then. Muller had a breakout season featuring in 50 something games and I remember Maradona refusing to do an interview with him at one point during a friendly between Argentina and Germany, because he thought he was a ball boy or something. Muller went on to score the opening goal against Argentina in the 4-0 drubbing in the world cup. Other than Kroos most of these players weren't that recognised or well-known like how Gotze, Neymar and Muniain were a couple of years ago.

Moulding great players is one of LVG's strong suits. He convinced Valdes into staying at Barca and bedded him into the first team. He also brought in the likes of Xavi, Puyol and Iniesta into the first-team as well. Just read on what those guys have to say on LVG. He was also primarily responsible for building that Ajax side of the mid nineties. LVG's truly has an eye for potential young players and can also develop them to their full potential as well. I would actually stick my neck out and say he is actually better than Wenger in that aspect...
 
Joga Bonito said:
Alaba was a midfielder before LVG convinced him to become a left back and he has been a mainstay in their defence since then. Muller had a breakout season featuring in 50 something games and I remember Maradona refusing to do an interview with him at one point during a friendly between Argentina and Germany, because he thought he was a ball boy or something. Muller went on to score the opening goal against Argentina in the 4-0 drubbing in the world cup. Other than Kroos most of these players weren't that recognised or well-known like how Gotze, Neymar and Muniain were a couple of years ago.

Moulding great players is one of LVG's strong suits. He convinced Valdes into staying at Barca and bedded him into the first team. He also brought in the likes of Xavi, Puyol and Iniesta into the first-team as well. Just read on what those guys have to say on LVG. He was also primarily responsible for building that Ajax side of the mid nineties. LVG's truly has an eye for potential young players and can also develop them to their full potential as well. I would actually stick my neck out and say he is actually better than Wenger in that aspect...
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Yep, spot on. If he reckons player X is good enough to feature, he tends to be right. Certainly has an eye for talent.
 
Moriarty said:
Yep. I think we'll be signing a new CB. I don't think Smalling is anywhere near good enough to step into the shoes of either Rio or Vidic. We need a good, commanding figure at the back; the type of player that United have traditionally had there since decades ago. Jones may fit the bill for raw power but Smalling doesn't have Rio's ball skills. I think he'll go.
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Like I said, in terms of numbers, we need to add CBs, not swap one with another. We don't have enough of them.
That being said, you're kidding yourself if you think he'll go, he's one of the least threatened players to leave.
 
Evilsanta said:
http://www1.skysports.com/football/...man-ed-woodward-tells-fans-to-expect-signings
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I like the idea of LvG giving our fringe and youth players a chance, especially in the friendlies, would love to see the likes of Cleverly living up to their potential with LvG's influence. But at the same time things like that are a luxury, and the board aren't going to put up with another mid-table finish, so signings are probably necessary. That and my inner muppet needs it.
 
Turnip said:
I like the idea of LvG giving our fringe and youth players a chance, especially in the friendlies, would love to see the likes of Cleverly living up to their potential with LvG's influence. But at the same time things like that are a luxury, and the board aren't going to put up with another mid-table finish, so signings are probably necessary. That and my inner muppet needs it.
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Been banging on about it all year. The importance is signing first team players, not squad players. We need instant improvement and that can only be brought by signing the crème de la crème. I'm sure we'll have to bring in a few experienced squad players to bolster our squad. Which is why Vermaelen or De Jong makes sense (less so De Jong as I think we'll be signing Strootman and Vidal).

I certainly think that we'll be signing a few low key signings to bolster our squad. Which will no doubt annoy the transfer muppets no end.
 
Just because Van Gaal said he'll assess the whole squad to see which position needs a replacement it doesn't mean there aren't players he definitely wants in his team, such as Vidal or Hummels, as an overstated example. And those are the transfers we're working on. I don't think there will be silence for 4 weeks.
 
I just hope we do bring in the players needed, we desperately need more depth at the back, as we only have rafeal jones smalling evans shaw, I heard woodward wants a tighter squad, which means he has to bring in marquee players who can improve our starting 11 if woodward wants much a tighter squad
 
northbynorthwest said:
i understand your reason, but that would be too many IMO. Id rather get rid of few now, bring in some new blood and then next summer the same. anderson fletcher and young should go. Id give zaha another throw of the dice and cleverly and fellani. Hernandez is always usefull on the bench as an guy to bring on if a goal is needed
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I defiantly think anderson fletcher nani and young are the ones who should get the chop if you compare our weakest midfielders. If Woodward wants a tighter squad, first 11 must be improved. I do think kagwa could be added to the list, as we do not need that many number 10's, mata kagwa rooney RVP playing in one team does not make sense, adding the fact mata is a much better player than kagwa, I say cash in on kagwa and replace him with a top class wide player if VG can find one. Herrera janazaj and mata is a great start to our midfield, you add another midfielder and wide player to that list you have the building blocks to creating a fine midfield. We will need 5 more players, 3 defenders 2 midfielders. Just because we so low on numbers in defence, the thought of going into the new season with our only defenders of rafeal jones smalling evans shaw, gives me nightmares
 
Our squad isn't 7th in quality throughout the Premier League, Only Chelsea & City look a fair sight stronger in both 1st team and potential depth, Arsenal's current side one could debate over the strength of player quality, as it stands we should be comfortably be sitting in the top 4, even last year we added Mata, Fellaini who who were both top PL performers for their respective sides and promoted Januzaj one of the most talented youngsters in world football.
Outside of defensive depth, which we clearly need given the injury records of Jones, Evans, Smalling & Rafael we should be able to sit in the top 4, with a decent managerial approach (That I'm sure if given time LvG possesses), particuarly with no CL games & traveling, some further expert LvG monitored minor surgery is needed, rather than the bloodbath chopping up of the squad some are suggesting.
 
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Oneunited26 said:
I defiantly think anderson fletcher nani and young are the ones who should get the chop if you compare our weakest midfielders. If Woodward wants a tighter squad, first 11 must be improved. I do think kagwa could be added to the list, as we do not need that many number 10's, mata kagwa rooney RVP playing in one team does not make sense, adding the fact mata is a much better player than kagwa, I say cash in on kagwa and replace him with a top class wide player if VG can find one. Herrera janazaj and mata is a great start to our midfield, you add another midfielder and wide player to that list you have the building blocks to creating a fine midfield. We will need 5 more players, 3 defenders 2 midfielders. Just because we so low on numbers in defence, the thought of going into the new season with our only defenders of rafeal jones smalling evans shaw, gives me nightmares
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yea i agree about kagawa. Mata is much better
 
kouroux said:
Like I said, in terms of numbers, we need to add CBs, not swap one with another. We don't have enough of them.
That being said, you're kidding yourself if you think he'll go, he's one of the least threatened players to leave.
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Quality not quantity mate. Some people don't rate Jonny Evans either. I do and I think he's a far better footballer than Smalling and he can slot in a s full back and do a creditable job there. This isn't about me finding a consensus and going against it as I am sometimes wont to do. I just don't think Smalling has shown he has what it takes to take over from one of the best centre halves the English game has produced in the last 30 years.
 
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