It will be one of the biggest puzzles as to why Ole didn’t play VDB more often. Even if he was “average “ on the occasions he did play, we have to remind ourselves on what the competition is - Matic (lost his legs and concentration), Fred - great energy but prone to catastrophic mistakes and McT (has moments but average otherwise).
Van De Beek unlocks Sancho.. those 2 will rule
- Thread starter Ferguson’s Hairdryer
- Start date
- Status
Oh you've lost me now. I think he's an immense signing and I'm gutted how pony we've almost been to a man this season to welcome him.
It's not hard to work out. McFred are limited but physical. And Bruno plays when DB ideally would.
Because its very obvious that VDB gets forward a hell of a lot.
It's his natural game play.
For him to do that and score goals like he did for Ajax vs Madrid - he either has to play in a midfield 3 with good defensive ability behind him; or play with a CDM that can hold his space and let VDB do his own thing.
The only proper CDM we have is Matic.
This is why Pogba gets played with Matic because of Pogba's attacking ability and lack of defensive ability - the best CDM gets put as his partner.
Fred & Pogba - or Mctominay and Pogba do not work as seen in the Europa league and more because McFred are defensively capable CM'S rather than CDM. They don't protect their area by themselves. This is why everytime we couldn't use Matic & Pogba, we used McFred together.
It's the same with VDB. He needs Matic. His games lined up with Fred or Mctominay like the FA cup was very average performances because he had to hold his position more.
The match vs Watford when he played with Matic he was able to get up and down the pitch more.
This is why Ole wanted to go for Rice. As seen with Soucek, Rice allows Soucek to play his game as far up the pitch.
Rice with Pogba, Pogba gets his protection allowing Pogba to create. VDB with Rice allows VDB to get forward just like Soucek does for West Ham.
Obviously VDB should have played more, but Ole wasn't a rotational manager and valued Pogba's creative ability next to Matic more than what VDB offered.
It's hard to fully get to the bottom of this as it always seems to end up in debates that go round in circles and then to nowhere in particular.
The poor performance in training theory. Probable, possible, but completely unknowable. It stands up to logic in the sense that if he was outperforming others he would get a chance in a meritocracy..
Then people question whether it was a meritocracy or whether Ole has favourites for whatever reason.
You get the poor performance argument which is fairly unarguable except for specific games, but the rebuttal is that how can he do well if he's never trusted or given a run or chucked on in improbable scenarios.
The "Ole didn't want him argument." Again completely unknowable unless confirmed by Ole, and even then he wouldn't be an unbiased bystander. This then runs into the argument that the manager defines transfer strategy as far as we know.
Personally I would probably go for a simple explanation that doesn't require too much speculation or theorising. The manager did not rate him ahead of Bruno and didn't think he suited his midfield 2. Or simply didn't rate him overall.
Bumping my own post after Carricks first team selection - would like to have seen Jesse in the 10 and VDB instead of One of McFred but Sancho, Donny, Martial can defo play together effectively.
Yeah. Wasn’t able to watch the match was happy to see VDB start but disappointed when he was played as a 10 as that still makes us rudderless in cm but I understood the objective was not to lose
He and Sancho still linked up a few times in this match with nice effect. They love to play quick 1-2 passes, you can tell Sancho is more schooled in the technical way of playing rather than kick and run.
They might but going by Villarreal game they can't. Game changed when Bruno came on for de beek, Rashford for Martial. Sancho played well before also but even he improved after 65th min.
Bruno Linked up with Sancho more effectively I agree. My general idea was that Sancho, VDB, Lingard, Martial, Cavani are suited to a possession based game with 1-2's and high pressing. I think bruno could do this as well but we know he was under instruction from Solskjaer to try killer balls all the time - he can improve by switching it up and retaining possession.
That’s good hear, lots of potential for a technical manager and no excuses for us to be getting outplayed so badly by teams once a manager has a few months of putting his ideas across.
How was Donny overall as a 10? I’m guessing limitations would be slow transition passes from mcafred doesn’t suit him?
honestly he barely got the chance to do anything as we spent most of the time defending and soaking up pressure.
he worked very hard, they showed the running stats at HT and he was the highest distance runner on the pitch.
He was asked to do a sort of RW/RM defensive job, but we struggled with their pressing and didn’t play any great football in sustained periods.
Once they got tired we made the changes at 60 minutes and he got subbed and it changed the game.
It wasn’t really a fair reflection of what he can do due to the team setup, but at the same time I don’t think under the current style he really works as the 10, we rely too much on individual running.
I much prefer him in the deeper CM role like watford.
Same here.. a highlight of all his best moments since arriving will be 80% passes from deeper, or running from deeper to join an attack.
Carrick is the midfield coach
Unlock what? Rule what? Beek has since been loaned out by Ralf to a team in the relegation battle and now even ETH can’t find space for him in this atrocious midfield. Another example of the fanbase living in a fantasy world. Football isn’t played from armchairs.
Strange bump. But VDB still looks miles off it, don't see him ever coming good here. Sancho is desperately struggling in this league, but I'd like to think with fresh players around him he'll find himself again.
you’ve bumped a post from last November
Ole, who bought him, did not rate him, Ralf loaned him and ETH the manager under who he shined at Ajax and made us buy him, does not use him.
I'm afraid is case closed for the guy.
I'm afraid is case closed for the guy.
did you just go a year back to find a random thread to be offended at?
Sorry. Some thread titles just stick around in my head
When posters make daft statements like “these two will rule” based on absolutely nothing other than one half of a football match (where we lost 4-1) you have to assume that it might be revisited down the line.
- Status