Van De Beek unlocks Sancho.. those 2 will rule

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Abraxas said:
A long way to go, I think. A few flickers but again Sancho didn't have the best time out there and that's the first 45 minutes of football from VDB that was more than "he did okay" since...well, a long time ago. Maybe the CL in his first season.
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Umm, DVB played very well in the West Ham game this season. Easily our best player there. Against Young Boys, too.
 
If we get a manager who brings in a proper system, then Van De Beek and Sancho will excel. They have always excelled in systems. They are not individual players, which is what Solskjaer seemed to prefer playing.

I think Cavani would be great in the same team as VDB and Sancho.
 
Bestie07 said:
I would even drop Bruno at this stage and play a proper number 8 in his position to go a proper 4-3-3.
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I wouldn't have Bruno and Ronaldo in the same team. Granted Bruno will set up an odd cracker for Ronaldo, but neither of them press and they are both moany cnuts. And when they are bad, they really are atrocious. Bruno has regressed so much this season. I think there is only room for one.
 
Ross Barkley has played twice as many minutes as Van de Beek in the league this season. Maybe their 6th choice centre midfielder.
 
I think you need a midfield 3 with VDB in it to make up for McFred’s lack of ability. Then a front three. That creates an issue with Bruno but he could probably do with some time out of the side IMO.
 
This doesn't really come as a surprise. Lots of people predicted this on here. VDB has had some nice synergy with Greenwood in the past too. I'd like to see a 4-3-3 with these players rotated:

Rashy/Ronnie/Greenwood/Sancho
Fred/Bruno/VDB
DM/Matic

elnorte said:
I'm thinking your mother made a mistake by not visiting the abortion clinic.
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Give your head a wobble.
 
Ferguson’s Hairdryer said:
I know the defeat to Watford was atrocious. However one positive that I noticed and something that hopefully the next manager will utilise is the the great interplay between DVB and how his creativity and ability to pass into space turns Sancho into a different player.

1) VDB, lots of arguing about what position he is. He can play a 6,8, or 10. Today he showed he’s great as a deeplaying playmaker and gets stuck in with tackles and interceptions but has the quickness of thought and vision to play defence splitting passes from deeper positions.. like Pogba but with better work rate and less of a defensive liability but of course won’t do the spectacular things that Pogba occasionally does. I thought he was bit like Verratti today, early days but if he plays in the position he played in today regularly that’s probably what we can expect. Most of our attacks will start from him.

2) Not had much of a chance, when he has played been played on the left. I’ll be honest playing bad on the left never made sense for me as I assumed he was just a modern day forward who could play across the front 3 and deep down dreamed of being central. But seeing him today in the 2nd half until the red card I realised he is the epitome of a system winger, actually surprised Pep didn’t put a buy back clause.
As soon as DVB, another who thrives in footballing teams, came on Sancho looked like an £80m player. With passes played into space he was running onto balls and whipping in crosses, with support to his left pass and cut inside.

Honestly think those two, plus Greewood and Amad (who didn’t play) are the future of United and really hope the Glazers hire a manager who gives them the chances. The potential for great football is there. The first 25 mins of the 2nd half is actually the first time I’ve seen anything positive in a footballing sense.
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I agree. Sancho was arguably our worst player in the first half, and our best (with DvdB) in the second. There's a nice complementarity there.

You could imagine a sort of trio structure on either side, with two attacking, one hanging back. DvdB, Sancho and Wan-Bissaka on the right, Shaw, Rashford and whoever plays in the sitting midfielder role on the left. And Bruno drifting to connect up the middle, or create overloads on either flank.
 
Some pathetic trash talk in this thread, need to give it a rest , this isn't Facebook.

Completely agree with you, OP. It isn't jumping to conclusions to say something that many people have been thinking all season - that we look bereft of ideas at times and should be playing the players we have that are intelligent and creative.

VDB was great when he came on. Looked a constant threat and his passing was streets ahead of our other midfielders. We play the other midfielders for their energy and defensive work, but even that has been poor recently. Need to get him in the side and if that means dropping Bruno for a bit then so be it. I think Bruno is at the point where his head has gone and he needs a couple of games on the bench to calm down anyway.
 
Name Changed said:
I wouldn't have Bruno and Ronaldo in the same team. Granted Bruno will set up an odd cracker for Ronaldo, but neither of them press and they are both moany cnuts. And when they are bad, they really are atrocious. Bruno has regressed so much this season. I think there is only room for one.
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Bruno is more than happy to press (probably more than anyone in our midfield and attack other than Fred and Cavani), it's just that far too often he does it stupidly and leaves us a man down as he's way out of position.

If we get a manager who implements a proper pressing system throughout the team then I'd expect Bruno to be one of the best at it.
 
VDB actually created enough for us to have won the game really although you have to take it with a pinch of salt, as there's an element of him looking good because he was the only one who hadn't given up.

Sancho was ok second half but wouldn't say he was amazing.

But still I'd be playing vdb purely on the basis he can actually do a job in midfield and we keep picking people there who can't.
 
I only watched the highlights of the United game, and I honestly wish any of Spurs midfielders had the ability to actually lay on the good passes I saw him do.
I hope Levy pays whatever it takes to snap him off.
 
Sviken said:
Umm, DVB played very well in the West Ham game this season. Easily our best player there. Against Young Boys, too.
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He played okay. I think anything he does has some overcompensation attached to it from those that are convinced there was an agenda against him getting an opportunity. A big difference between being tidy and playing extremely well in my opinion. Yesterday was more like it because he was a threat and found clever balls, they are genuine difference making moments.
 
Abraxas said:
He played okay. I think anything he does has some overcompensation attached to it from those that are convinced there was an agenda against him getting an opportunity. A big difference between being tidy and playing extremely well in my opinion. Yesterday was more like it because he was a threat and found clever balls, they are genuine difference making moments.
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No, he played a million times better than McFred combined. And that's all he needs. We were not asking him to replace a prime Xavi-Scholes-Iniesta midfield here.
 
Sviken said:
No, he played a million times better than McFred combined. And that's all he needs. We were not asking him to replace a prime Xavi-Scholes-Iniesta midfield here.
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I don't know why everything he has done gets turned into this dramatic affair where he played very well or great instead of just calling it what it is, a good to reasonable showing.

A million times better is an example of what I mean. There are some strange artificial standards attached to how some look at his performance just because of McFred or his perceived plight. I saw a guy that knocked it around against West Ham, absolutely fine, it's a decent 7/10 perhaps. Young Boys was...okay. Probably a 6 for that, not much to go on. Which is also how I'd describe most of his minutes prior to that, not much to go on, somewhere between very quiet and okay.

I think what I said is fair enough. There's a long way to go for this Sancho/VDB axis, they both need to show themselves as able to perform at the level we need. To do that they obviously need a chance but I'm not going to pump them up and overcompensate, just call exactly what I see and give them some patience.
 
Abraxas said:
I don't know why everything he has done gets turned into this dramatic affair where he played very well or great instead of just calling it what it is, a good to reasonable showing.

A million times better is an example of what I mean. There are some strange artificial standards attached to how some look at his performance just because of McFred or his perceived plight. I saw a guy that knocked it around against West Ham, absolutely fine, it's a decent 7/10 perhaps. Young Boys was...okay. Probably a 6 for that, not much to go on. Which is also how I'd describe most of his minutes prior to that, not much to go on, somewhere between very quiet and okay.

I think what I said is fair enough. There's a long way to go for this Sancho/VDB axis, they both need to show themselves as able to perform at the level we need. To do that they obviously need a chance but I'm not going to pump them up and overcompensate, just call exactly what I see and give them some patience.
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In the 25-30 minutes before the sending off he showed us things he can do that neither one of McFred can do and things that our midfield has been crying out for. Will he do that every match? of course not, but you don’t have to watch 50 matches to figure what attributes a player has.

He’s shown in his own right, plus the glimpses of the chemistry with Sancho possibilities that gives hope and optimism. Now if a manager with a tactical brain coaches that into the system, those two could very well become key players.

Also people demeaning the unlocking aspect… football is a team game. All good teams have players that combine with chemistry and basically unlock each other. The winger who crosses with pinpoint accuracy into the box for the old fashion number 9 to head and score is the oldest and most simplistic version of one player unlocking another.
 
Abraxas said:
I don't know why everything he has done gets turned into this dramatic affair where he played very well or great instead of just calling it what it is, a good to reasonable showing.

A million times better is an example of what I mean. There are some strange artificial standards attached to how some look at his performance just because of McFred or his perceived plight. I saw a guy that knocked it around against West Ham, absolutely fine, it's a decent 7/10 perhaps. Young Boys was...okay. Probably a 6 for that, not much to go on. Which is also how I'd describe most of his minutes prior to that, not much to go on, somewhere between very quiet and okay.
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Because he legitimately did. Obviously I was using a hyperbole, but the reality is that he was very, very much better than McFred in both of those matches. In both matches we controlled the mdfield for the first time in a long while (before utterly collapsing after he was taken off in the Young Boys game), he was breaking the plays, he wasn't losing the ball, he wasn't misplacng passes left and right as usual, he wasn't hiding from the ball, courtesy of McTominay, and for the first time in a long while we played forward passes. Some of his key passes were absolutely great. In short, he was a much needed improvement over McFred. As a reward? Benched yet again.

I think what I said is fair enough. There's a long way to go for this Sancho/VDB axis, they both need to show themselves as able to perform at the level we need. To do that they obviously need a chance but I'm not going to pump them up and overcompensate, just call exactly what I see and give them some patience.
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Well, thankfully, Ole is gone because they'd have never seen that chance. We can be patient till the cows come home, but the fact of the matter is - there comes a time when you have to call it what it is. DVB wasted a year of his career, Ole was in the process of wastng Sancho's career as well, after spending 2 years trying to chase him down. It's incompetent management to the bone.
 
Rocksy said:
I think you need a midfield 3 with VDB in it to make up for McFred’s lack of ability. Then a front three. That creates an issue with Bruno but he could probably do with some time out of the side IMO.
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Spot on, I'd have a midfield 3 of donny, Fred and matic, sancho and ronaldo as inverted wingers amd Bruno as a deep false 9
 
Ferguson’s Hairdryer said:
In the 25-30 minutes before the sending off he showed us things he can do that neither one of McFred can do and things that our midfield has been crying out for. Will he do that every match? of course not, but you don’t have to watch 50 matches to figure what attributes a player has.

He’s shown in his own right, plus the glimpses of the chemistry with Sancho possibilities that gives hope and optimism. Now if a manager with a tactical brain coaches that into the system, those two could very well become key players.

Also people demeaning the unlocking aspect… football is a team game. All good teams have players that combine with chemistry and basically unlock each other. The winger who crosses with pinpoint accuracy into the box for the old fashion number 9 to head and score is the oldest and most simplistic version of one player unlocking another.
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You don't need 50 matches no. But the amount of minutes Sancho and VDB have spent together means there isn't really a trend, there's a few isolated actions. That's where I think some caution is being urged before too much is read into it. When you say a glimpse...it really is just that, I don't even think Sancho played particularly well.

We'll have to see where these players figure for the interim and then long-term manager too, it might never get going if he doesn't rate them or uses a system not conducive to them.
 
Abraxas said:
You don't need 50 matches no. But the amount of minutes Sancho and VDB have spent together means there isn't really a trend, there's a few isolated actions. That's where I think some caution is being urged before too much is read into it. When you say a glimpse...it really is just that, I don't even think Sancho played particularly well.

We'll have to see where these players figure for the interim and then long-term manager too, it might never get going if he doesn't rate them or uses a system not conducive to them.
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The way Sancho’s performance improved after VDB came one and the things Sancho started doing in regards to runs, crosses etc means that’s it would be very naive not to look deeper into it. He’s clearly a player that needs the ball player into space, and VDB is clearly a player who can pick out those pockets of space.
 
I called VDB out for mediocre performances so I’ll give him credit where it’s due, top appearance from him until the sending off.

Got us up the pitch with some progressive, incisive passing, scored, did everything you could have asked.

Keep it up Donny lad.
 
Ferguson’s Hairdryer said:
I know the defeat to Watford was atrocious. However one positive that I noticed and something that hopefully the next manager will utilise is the the great interplay between DVB and how his creativity and ability to pass into space turns Sancho into a different player.

1) VDB, lots of arguing about what position he is. He can play a 6,8, or 10. Today he showed he’s great as a deeplaying playmaker and gets stuck in with tackles and interceptions but has the quickness of thought and vision to play defence splitting passes from deeper positions.. like Pogba but with better work rate and less of a defensive liability but of course won’t do the spectacular things that Pogba occasionally does. I thought he was bit like Verratti today, early days but if he plays in the position he played in today regularly that’s probably what we can expect. Most of our attacks will start from him.

2) Not had much of a chance, when he has played been played on the left. I’ll be honest playing bad on the left never made sense for me as I assumed he was just a modern day forward who could play across the front 3 and deep down dreamed of being central. But seeing him today in the 2nd half until the red card I realised he is the epitome of a system winger, actually surprised Pep didn’t put a buy back clause.
As soon as DVB, another who thrives in footballing teams, came on Sancho looked like an £80m player. With passes played into space he was running onto balls and whipping in crosses, with support to his left pass and cut inside.

Honestly think those two, plus Greewood and Amad (who didn’t play) are the future of United and really hope the Glazers hire a manager who gives them the chances. The potential for great football is there. The first 25 mins of the 2nd half is actually the first time I’ve seen anything positive in a footballing sense.
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They’re proper footballers, so no great surprise.

I’m surprised that people are surprised
 
Sandikan said:
We seem to have a high amount of players who would be quality, BUT with these unspecified missing players around them.

We've heard it for Pogba, DVB, Fred, McTom, Ronaldo, Sancho, Bruno, Maguire etc.

At some point we need to buy this magical player who seemingly unlocks the rest.
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We love sticking players of all different types in together.

We have a bunch of quick footed, high tempo technical players like Sancho, DVB, Fred, Martial and others.

We have leggy players who like to get the ball out of their feet and run. Pogba, Matic, Rashford and so on.

Its hard to mix the two. If we group them together properly it will only take one or two players to unlock the potential. Keep chucking them all in together with no plan and we'll be stuck here for years.
 
I thought Sancho had one of his better games the other day. Agree that these two can play in the same type of system - Ten Hag would love them both. Funnily enough I think that with these two, Lingard behind Cavani and Martial on the left we could have the basis of a team that gels together nicely - see Lingard's goal against Newcastle.

The likes of Rashford, Greenwood, Bruno simply don't look after the ball well enough.
 
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Amazing how when we play two technically gifted players who are able to keep and pass the ball in tight spaces we suddenly look more dangerous going forwards. I can't believe VdB has been frozen out of the team for so long for the likes of Fred/McTom etc. We should be trying to fill the team with players who can pass like this. Just like City have done for the past 5 or so years.
 
I am really excited by the Sancho VDB combo, they are technically very good, saw glimpses of the right channel.
 
MUFC OK said:
I thought Sancho had one of his better games the other day. Agree that these two can play in the same type of system - Ten Hag would love them both. Funnily enough I think that with these two, Lingard behind Cavani and Martial on the left we could have the basis of a team that gels together nicely - see Lingard's goal against Newcastle.

The likes of Rashford, Greenwood, Bruno simply don't look after the ball well enough.
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Greenwood needs to be number 9, once CR7 has retired. He’s a great talent and one of the best finishers I’ve seen for his age, being put on the right is wasting him as he’s not a multi functional forward.
 
DVB is the future of the club. Pogba and Lingard are on their way and should be dropped to the reserves. I dont know why any of our fans think Pogba is going to renew - in about 6 weeks he can have a pre contract with Real, Barca, Juve, Bayern, whoever he wants. Feck him. Dont know why hes kept DVB out of the team
 
One Sancho to rule them all, one Beek to find them. One Carrick to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them.
 
Sandikan said:
We seem to have a high amount of players who would be quality, BUT with these unspecified missing players around them.

We've heard it for Pogba, DVB, Fred, McTom, Ronaldo, Sancho, Bruno, Maguire etc.

At some point we need to buy this magical player who seemingly unlocks the rest.
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A better coach is all we need. All those players are great and would all get games, some as immediate starters at City/Liverpool/Chelsea.

Chelsea looked forever beatable under Lampard. A better coach and they’re a different team.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
A better coach is all we need. All those players are great and would all get games, some as immediate starters at City/Liverpool/Chelsea.

Chelsea looked forever beatable under Lampard. A better coach and they’re a different team.
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I was having that exact same debate with someone earlier. He's insistent our squad is average at best, and Chelsea have a terrific squad.
I don't see it like that, but instead exactly as you word your last lines.
 
One thing I can say is VDB has awareness that McFred don't have. He looks at Ronaldo to make a run and place the ball perfectly for him to have a shot at goal. With Watford players closing in on him, he had the awareness to kick it into space for Sancho to chase is anothrr example of awareness. Ole doesn't think he needs a forward passing midfielder, he feels that his front 3-4 will unlock the defence by themselves so he choses McFred hoping that we won't concede a goal. That's his downfall.
 
Sandikan said:
I was having that exact same debate with someone earlier. He's insistent our squad is average at best, and Chelsea have a terrific squad.
I don't see it like that, but instead exactly as you word your last lines.
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It’s mad. I’m in the marginalised camp that thinks Ronaldo was a bad signing for us. I think we’d be performing better without him. Maybe he would represent a problem to most modern managers. But our squad is Fcuking awesome.
 
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