His form returned at the end of the last season. Crisis averted
Valencia's Attitude
- Thread starter Hectic
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
I'm pretty confident that once the season is underway, worries about our wings suddenly being a weakness will evaporate. Valencia will be back in form, and I think there's a decent chance that Nani will too. If nothing else, he seems the sort of player who might benefit from the honeymoon effect of a new manager. Suddenly we'll be back to having the best overall resources on the wing in the league (especially having added Zaha).
We'll try to return to worries about our shit CM, only to discover that we're playing Carrick and Thiago behind Kagawa.
You're forgetting the fact that Ashley Young is going to be amazing also. A true world beater.
It pretty much is to be honest. It's pictures, then a few sentences from Scholes on his thoughts of said picture,
Superb work.Real quotes, right?
ffs come on Hectic, he's a legend. Have some little respect please
come on Hectic, he's a legend. Have some little respect pleaseNo one is saying he has to change his style. What he's saying is that in being one footed, Valencia is a fairly limited player, which is a fair comment. Luckily, despite being limited, he's generally excellent at what he does as he has fantastic pace, can often beat a player with ease, and is a very good crosser. When his crossing isn't at it's best though, or if someone manages to stop him from getting past them, he's undoubtedly very limited as a footballer.
Definitely legendary from Hectic... even showed it to my wife and tried to explain. Needless to say she was deeply impressed other than to pat me on the head.
According to the summer issue of United We Stand, they reckon Valencia was carrying a bit of metal from a past ankle operation, which gave him grief all season. They said he's getting rid of it(assume it's got rid of by now).
Do you play football? It's perfectly possible to get back into form without playing in the actual matches. Training comprises 90% of the football a player experiences. I was very good in school, then got a bad injury (fell during a corner, got stamped on, broke two ribs and my collarbone). Lost all my confidence and basically asked not to play competitive matches. Was utterly shit for months. Stuck to just training for a whole year, and when I finally started playing matches again I was back to something close to my original form.
If we sign Thiago, maybe we'll have more threat through the middle of the pitch and become less predictable, which would help Valencia become part of the weaponry, and not just our go to move when no one else has a clue what to do
Yes, I don't see how your mental fragility relates to Valencia's situation. He came off a bad injury and got a big burst of form off the back of that. I think we are just seeing the plateau of that burst. I expect him to get more games under Moyes and continue to work hard on the right but if he doesnt adapt his game slightly and be more confident then we will see more of the stuttering wing play.
I'm not sure I can get on board with the theory that Valencia will be a better player if we play through the middle. It reminds me of my mates theory that we would do better with Ronaldo because we wouldnt be so reliant on one player.
I can assure you it's a different kettle of fish when being a pro you need games in the first team to fully recover form not training or playing with the stiffs! (Not having a go just trying to add to thread)
100% agree
I can see the idea behind it though. A player like tony loves to hug the touch line looking for those darting runs to make when he sees the space in behind. Having the ability to thread through balls to him with someone like Thiago would immediately need closing down making him more of a menace to deal with compared to just playing it wide and hoping he can beat his man/men and get a ball into the box.
More often than not last season we saw the ball go wide to him and he had nowhere to go with teams sitting deep and he would inevitably play the ball backwards to the fullback, who would then play it back to him creating this hypnotic shitness football resulting in feck all.
What I do love about Tony is the fact that no matter how far or close to the goal he is and whether it be a cross or a shot, he fecking hammers the ball out of it. It reminds me of a Denis Irwin style kick penis (penalty for those of you unaware to what the kids are saying these days) "I'm going smash this ball so hard that I won't even know where it's going to end up.
I really do hope he returns to rape mode next season. It was heart breaking watching him struggle to perform. He's such a loveable beast.
Jeez, thanks for that one. I was fifteen, got half my upper body caved in, blacked out, woke up in an ambulance with no idea what had happened and in excruciating pain. Apologies if I wasn't flying into those penalty area scrums three weeks later.
I don't actually disagree with most of your post, but none of it has anything to do with the point I originally responded to, which was you totally rejecting the idea that a player can regain form without being played week-in week-out. If my personal experience isn't enough, there are plenty of Premier League footballers who have done exactly that, i.e. been in shit form, been dropped for a significant period of time, and come back in great form. It's actually the norm to drop out of form players.
Possibly you're being snappy because you think I'm either having a go at or being a fanboy of Valencia. I'm not, I'm just responding to that one point of yours about recovering form without being played in matches.
If I was there I am sure I would have been the first one in there making sure you were ok.
We're talking about elite athletes here. Not sunday league cloggers or young and upcoming reserves. You can rejuvinate your fitness and re-discover your mental edge and your confidence (which I think is a personal thing regardless) but I don't really believe you can 'gain form' by sitting on the pine. Confidence yes but match sharpness at that level? I really doubt (but of course imo).
I am not being snappy at all. You brought your own experience into the equation and took personal offence to me disregarding it. I wasn't trying to be rude or anything.
I am neither here or there on Valencia. He does an effective job with what he has but I feel the game itself is adapting away from his bread and butter (getting the ball and moving it in behind defenses for a near post tap in or a drilled cross). Fullbacks are getting smarter, quicker and closing faster with more effectiveness as well as Central defenders having the mental ability to read these sorts of plays and cut out more ball. The athletic edge a lot of wingers had on defenders in recent times is starting to disappear and wingers are having to adapt their game to be versatile.
I hope so but I think he is a bit of a flat track bully. Really important to help us win the league, but a tendency to go missing in big games. This might give hima bit more space to do his thing.
You are completely ignorant to the fact that Valencia played 39 straight games last season constantly trying to find form and failing. It is not like he just got a dip in form and we are looking to give him "a run of matches to hit form again".
He already had a run of matches to hit form, then he got another 35 on those. The problem is that Valencia is our worst winger in this form and Nani has showed it whenever he gets game time. Kagawa has been consistently better in every game as well and I would say even Ashley Young(Mr.Average) was better than Valencia in average. Welbeck have also put in performances way above the standard that Valencia has from the wing.
So in this form he does not deserve to start, he is not good enough right now for the team to benefit from it and he has already had enough games to try and hit form again. Valencia in this form is probably our worst regular first-teamer since well it is actually hard finding an example of a regular of such a poor quality.
I acknowledged that his simply wasn't a case of 'needing matches'. Even saying that I felt his initial burst of good form at the back end of last season somewhat tapered off and developed into a confidence issue and mould of style problem.
Kagawa is a technically better player. A playmaker so instantly he's going to have a better understanding of the deeper role and while not being the best 'chalk boots' winger. He still has the technical depth to perform in a left sided role. I won't be surprised if we draw him further into an inside forward role this coming season.
I'd agree. It also didn't help that we at times used a 'diamond' and shifted our play to that of a more modern '4-5-1' variant with the diamond but I just feel his game is getting less and less suited (like I stated) to modern football. If he doesn't get his confidence back somehow I don't really see what putting him on the bench will do in truth. In the case of 'he needs to find form on the bench' which I think is a myth as well. (As I stated).
The "He needs to find form on the bench" was not about Valencia benefiting from it. It was because having someone playing that bad and consistently starting them is bad for the team.
I would not want to sell Valencia because there is always the possibility that he regains form from the side-lines and when he is in form he offers a lot to our team. But neither do I think that Valencia is bigger than Manchester United and that he deserves to start every game because it may benefit him. The reality of it is that every player would benefit of never getting benched, so why would we give this honour to Valencia when we don't even give it to Rooney.
I do agree that Valencia is not suited for the modern game and I brought it up comparing him to more of a wing-back in the modern game. Baines/Alves are not that much better defensively than he is and he is of course even better offensively(in form).
I don't think we steered away from a tactic that suited him last year, Valencia was almost always hugging the touch-line when he played, with a left-winger who was in a more free role. I think that his injury made him less explosive, he is still as fast but previously even if you knew he would go on the outside just his explosiveness made him a threat.
You knew that he would go on the outside but not when. Right now he looks sluggish in all his movement and I think it is not just in the 1 on 1.
Anyway, he's lost confidence I agree and the bench time will benefit him in terms of a rest. But I still stand by the fact that it's near impossible to 'regain form' from the bench. Confidence for sure, but not actual match form.
Even I at times forget he came off a horrendous double break and came back early from recovery. It's pretty phenomenal athleticism in general.
Even I at times forget he came off a horrendous double break and came back early from recovery. It's pretty phenomenal athleticism in general.
Nobody can get match-form from the bench which is why it is stupid to bench players like Nani/Rooney for them to regain the match-form they lost in a match. I agree that if this was only about Valencia then he should be starting every game until he wants to quit playing but it isn't.
Either you let every player in the team start however their form is or you let nobody play if they have a consistent run of poor displays. I do believe that Valencia has been treated in a way that has influenced Rooney to think he is treated poorly and most probably Nani as well.
You're putting words in my mouth.
Does ghali just wander the forum lookig for disagreements??
Well it beats trying to be funny!
Yeah cause that's exactly what I said.
Sorry ghaliboy lol
tough crowd here...