I'm not sure it's particularly relevant, but the crux of the issue is that people who find a system where incomes in the top 1% pay 40% of income taxes unfair seem blissfully unaware that that same top 1% control over 40% of the wealth.
US Presidential Election: Tuesday November 6th, 2012
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Another Comedy Central Republican Presidential Debate tomorrow.
Can't wait.
Can't wait.
And the solution to this would be? I mean christ this is starting to sound like Palin type speech just from the other direction. Now people shouldn't pay their own unemployment insurance? Disability? Social Security? Of which the business pays a sizable chunk of anyway. So repubs want no gov't and demos want what no taxes for the 99%?
Tax reform needs to be done. And needs to be fair to all. Not just to lower income and not for rich. For ALL. The problem in this country is our politicians are so far out of touch with reality it's truly shocking. Do you think Pelosi really understands the plight of the poor? Hell no. Do you think Perry/Romney/Cain is really doing what he thinks will help small business? No he's helping the people who will give him money to get elected.
The revolution shouldn't be against Wall Street, it should be on Pennsylvania Avenue and 1 1st St.[/ron paul]
you bring up a significant issue here. the subject of fees.
For Republicans, fees are not taxes, though their effect is the same...in fact worse because it is not tied to income.
What I am puzzled by is the avarage republican voter is not well off. Yet they feel comfortable supporting all these measures that hurt them
Can they really be this stupid.
Republicans? Really? How about politicians in general. When it suits their needs they can justify any tax, fee, license, etc. It's not just repubs in the pocket of Wall St. Look and see who the largest receiver of contributions from Wall St is. Not Bush. But he's a close second......
Progressive taxation. Which is already the situation that we have, but the GOP tries to incrementally regress at every turn.
I agree with most of what you say Cali Red.
I have posted that we really are voting for the lesser of two evils..."as we see it of course"
The argument about fees is that many state Republican legislatures have no problems raising all these 'fees' while they fight tooth and nail about raising taxes to balance the budgets...as has happened here in Minnesota for example.
As to your argument that the employee does gain benefits from these payroll taxes, of course you are right....but they are taxes. And are we saying citizens gain nothing from income taxes? The police, fiefighters, infrastructure and the armed forces?
We collectively benefit of course.
The trouble is governments waste money that is collected. Trying to reduce wasteful spending should always be done. Just gutting spending is very irresponsible and not the answer to balancing the budget. The rich must be asked to pay their share in progressive taxes. Trickle down economics does not work as has been proven over these dozen years.
We have to accept that the poor are not on a level playing field and ignoring their plight is even more irresponsible. Every citizen needs to contribute to the nations well being. It is in the interest of all of us to make sure everyone is given a fair chance. Some will need more help than others. That is to be accepted.
We are in this together. We will make it together.
I have posted that we really are voting for the lesser of two evils..."as we see it of course"
The argument about fees is that many state Republican legislatures have no problems raising all these 'fees' while they fight tooth and nail about raising taxes to balance the budgets...as has happened here in Minnesota for example.
As to your argument that the employee does gain benefits from these payroll taxes, of course you are right....but they are taxes. And are we saying citizens gain nothing from income taxes? The police, fiefighters, infrastructure and the armed forces?
We collectively benefit of course.
The trouble is governments waste money that is collected. Trying to reduce wasteful spending should always be done. Just gutting spending is very irresponsible and not the answer to balancing the budget. The rich must be asked to pay their share in progressive taxes. Trickle down economics does not work as has been proven over these dozen years.
We have to accept that the poor are not on a level playing field and ignoring their plight is even more irresponsible. Every citizen needs to contribute to the nations well being. It is in the interest of all of us to make sure everyone is given a fair chance. Some will need more help than others. That is to be accepted.
We are in this together. We will make it together.
The famous liberal courts of the Roman Empire.
This is what I was thinking, so much for Republicans and their staunch defence of the Tenth Amendment.
Don't you just love it when we can all come together in mutual despise of the Republicans?
I despise BOTH major parties. You should try it, feels gooooood.
Capitalism creates a few winners and many losers - deal with it ot deal with capitalism.
The problem is that everyone thinks they're going to end up as a winner.
Depends on the definition of winner and losers I guess but I'll keep the system. Just needs some tweaks now and again.
Anyone else watching the debate tonight? I haven't got work until friday, so I'm definitely staying up for it. I think it'll be the fourth one in a row. It's like a comedy and a horror movie all in one.
Rick Perry.
Herman Cain.
Michele Bachmann.
Mitt Rom- zZzzzzzz
Rick Perry.
Herman Cain.
Michele Bachmann.
Mitt Rom- zZzzzzzz
The myth of the American dream.
Oh, no Huntsman in this one? The average IQ probably just fell by 30%.
When is it on and what channel? I might watch for a laugh.
It's on CNN 8PM Eastern
How can you put yourself through this? I only watched one debate, and turned it off halfway
Good job Huntsman...Santorum sholud get another 2 minutes then to rail on fags.
Bachmann was doing her bit last night - demanding that the US gets oil revenues from the countries it intervenes in.
I am sure the US Military would appreciate it if they became mercenaries.
I am sure the US Military would appreciate it if they became mercenaries.
thats his jobs plan.
substitute US military for US companies and this is already happening. Go into Iraq, redo all oil contracts, divvy them up between the US and UK and you're set.
Saudi Arabia got handed a $50bil service charge for the US coming in and saving it...or does Michelle think this was all done for free?
Sadly, you are correct!Santorum really is the most despicable human being of the bunch. Tonight's comedy will come from Cain but I'm sure we'll see the Newt trying desperately to prove that he's the intellectual of the field...and failing miserably.
It's actually quite entertaining. Particularly last one, where the moderators really set the candidates up against eachother. Some of them even had good points against the other candidates, though of course their own solutions were nearly as, if not more, idiotic.
It's essentially comedy. The two most charismatic ones are both idiots, if in slightly different ways (Perry and Cain). Watching the debate, I basically spend half the time fantasizing about any of them in a presidential candidate debate against Obama.
Cain's a bit of a clown, but he's definitely not an idiot. He's just not as politically aware as he should be for someone hoping to be president. If you look at his history, it's far more admirable than that of, say, Obama (or pretty much anyone else who is prominent in US politics at the moment).
Grew up as a working class black kid in the heavily racist South, pre Civil Rights Act
Undergrad in maths, Masters in computer science.
Ballistics expert in the US Navy
Highly successful CEO of a major company
Was chairman of one of the 12 districts of the Federal Reserve.
It's just a shame his political views are so selfish and odious.
Grew up as a working class black kid in the heavily racist South, pre Civil Rights Act
Undergrad in maths, Masters in computer science.
Ballistics expert in the US Navy
Highly successful CEO of a major company
Was chairman of one of the 12 districts of the Federal Reserve.
It's just a shame his political views are so selfish and odious.
If he really believes his 9-9-9 plan could work, he's an idiot. And "for someone hoping to be president" is true, but it's far worse than that. It's more like "for someone with any passing interest in foreign and domestic politics".
Has anyone done a financial model on how much the 9-9-9 plan would raise in tax revenue.
The current average tax rate in the US is around 22-23% so I can't see how 9% will work. Plus corporation tax is considerably higher than 9%. Even when you factor in a brand new 9% sales tax the number just don't add up.
My suggestion for tax bands, with a 5% sales tax and a reduced corporation tax down to 20% would work. The sales tax shouldn't effect the poor too badly because essential are exempt. I would like to see a couple of luxury sales taxes for stuff like jewelry and high end cars.
The current average tax rate in the US is around 22-23% so I can't see how 9% will work. Plus corporation tax is considerably higher than 9%. Even when you factor in a brand new 9% sales tax the number just don't add up.
My suggestion for tax bands, with a 5% sales tax and a reduced corporation tax down to 20% would work. The sales tax shouldn't effect the poor too badly because essential are exempt. I would like to see a couple of luxury sales taxes for stuff like jewelry and high end cars.
I don't know what exactly will be except under Cain's sales tax plan, but if it is similar to the UK's V.A.T in what it covers, it will hit the poor very badly. The only way a sales tax isn't going to be regressive is if it is restricted to high cost luxury goods that are beyond the reach of most people. Even people on the lowest incomes need to buy clothes, furniture, electrical goods, haircuts and other services. It's not like America's poor are living in mudhuts surviving on nothing but rice and water. Introducing a general sales tax (even if it does exclude necessities) in order to cut income and corp' taxes is obviously going to end up being a case of lower and middle earners subsidising the rich.
This isn't the UK, things aren't focused on the poor. I am more concerned with the overall economy and having enough tax revenue to provide a few basics services including healthcare, which the poor would benefit from.
Cutting corp tax helps the economy, so everyone benefits from that. I am in favor of a simplified income tax system with set bands and no exemptions, with people on over $200k paying a little more.
I am not sure if Brits are aware but many people in the US do very well out of the tax system. With exemptions from mortgages (primary and second homes), and all sorts of other write offs a couple earning $150k can get their tax burden down to $10k a year.
When people say Cain is an idiot they mean in the sense that he has total ignorance on social and foreign issues, and a fairly good grasp on economics but asinine ideas on how to run an economy.
Nope, he is just an everyday idiot I am afraid.
Aboslutely! I was a little guilty about paying no federal income tax last year because of deductions on our homes and stock. We both work and make above average wages but our accountant got us the maximum result this time around.
The system here does not favour the less fortunate at all.
That's unfair. He's smart and is probably just doing this to build a career as a speaker.
It's somebody like Gingrich who scares me. He thinks he's some super-intellectual and so do many others. But he's nothing of the sort...a complete phony.
I don't really listen to any of the wankers TBH. I caught 30 seconds of him one day as I scrambled to find the remote, and that was more than enough for one lifetime.
I would certainly not say Cain is smart. I guess you'd have to give some credit to someone who manages to make themselves such a financial success, but I sincerely believe it can happen to idiots too. He might be very good at running a pizza business. But economically? Foreign policy? Disaster.
Cain is pretty much the black Bush. Perry is the.. I don't know.. less charismatic Bush?
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