US Politics

You address it by listening to folks who have worked on this their entire life. Like the attorney whose tweet I posted. Or the website she refers to that collects data on prison inmates. There are literally hundreds of organizations that do this. The least you could do to help them is not make their work harder by repeating republican talking points from yesteryear.
 
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entropy said:
You address it by listening to folks who have worked on this their entire life. Like the attorney whose tweet I posted. Or the website she refers to that collects data on prison inmates. There are literally hundreds of organizations that do this. The least you could do to help them is not make their work harder by repeating republican talking points from yesteryear.
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You’re right. How dare I point out that Democrat politicians might be concerned about GOP talking points considering how many elections those talking points have won the last 6 years.

For fecks sake man. Just because someone points out a political fact doesn’t mean they 1) agree that it’s how it “should” be or 2) that they want all inmates to die of Covid.
 
We've discussed in many threads the lack of prison reform, the prison for profit system, and a legal system that feeds off minorities and the poor. I don't see anyone above discussing who to release (save nimic) and see plenty of fallacious attacks and other bullshit retorts that find their way into these threads.

Perhaps releasing anyone sent to prison on certain drug charges and other minor offenses/three strikes rule would be a start, but violent offenders simply cannot be released to the public. Some inmates have been released ahead of schedule to help combat the virus, including some who had previously tested positive. Numerous policies and whatnot are in the works according to https://www.prisonpolicy.org/virus/virusresponse.html.

Not sure where this 77% infection number came about, I've not found anything to indicate such. Per a research study published 8 July, prisoners held a 5.5x infection rate and 1.34x death rate over the general population (per 100,000) but accounted for just over 2.11% of all infections (42107) and 0.44% of all deaths (510) nationally as of 6 June (national: 1,992,030 cases and 114,665 deaths as of 6 June).
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2768249 & https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

But I'm curious what any of you have in mind for thousands of released felons during a pandemic and rising unemployment. How exactly are these convicted felons going to find work? make ends meet? avoid falling back into the same shit that got them there?

Immediate release takes one problem and multiplies into more problems. Or do we collectively play the "not my problem" hand after release, akin to how the xian-right do IRT abortion/child birth?
 
Carolina Red said:
You’re right. How dare I point out that Democrat politicians might be concerned about GOP talking points considering how many elections those talking points have won the last 6 years.

For fecks sake man. Just because someone points out a political fact doesn’t mean they 1) agree that it’s how it “should” be or 2) that they want all inmates to die of Covid.
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The fate of an inmate should never ever depend on the outcome of some hypothetical election. They are already being subjected to inhumane conditions made far worse due to COVID. They are literally begging us for help as more and more inmates keep dying every day. I don't know how inaction is supposed to be some form of solution.
 
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entropy said:
The fate of an inmate should never ever depend on the outcome of some hypothetical election. They are already being subjected to inhumane conditions and covid makes it even worse. They are literally begging us for help as more inmates keep dying everyday. I don’t know how inaction is supposed to be some form of solution.
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To reiterate...

“Just because someone points out a political fact doesn’t mean they 1) agree that it’s how it “should” be”
 
MrMarcello said:
We've discussed in many threads the lack of prison reform, the prison for profit system, and a legal system that feeds off minorities and the poor. I don't see anyone above discussing who to release (save nimic) and see plenty of fallacious attacks and other bullshit retorts that find their way into these threads.

Perhaps releasing anyone sent to prison on certain drug charges and other minor offenses/three strikes rule would be a start, but violent offenders simply cannot be released to the public. Some inmates have been released ahead of schedule to help combat the virus, including some who had previously tested positive. Numerous policies and whatnot are in the works according to https://www.prisonpolicy.org/virus/virusresponse.html.

Not sure where this 77% infection number came about, I've not found anything to indicate such. Per a research study published 8 July, prisoners held a 5.5x infection rate and 1.34x death rate over the general population (per 100,000) but accounted for just over 2.11% of all infections (42107) and 0.44% of all deaths (510) nationally as of 6 June (national: 1,992,030 cases and 114,665 deaths as of 6 June).
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2768249 & https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

But I'm curious what any of you have in mind for thousands of released felons during a pandemic and rising unemployment. How exactly are these convicted felons going to find work? make ends meet? avoid falling back into the same shit that got them there?

Immediate release takes one problem and multiplies into more problems. Or do we collectively play the "not my problem" hand after release, akin to how the xian-right do IRT abortion/child birth?
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Excellent post.

It will likely get ignored.
 
Carolina Red said:
To reiterate...

“Just because someone points out a political fact doesn’t mean they 1) agree that it’s how it “should” be”
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It isn’t a ‘political’ fact. Inmates shouldn’t have to risk death because it might affect Newsom’s career. That is literally how we got here in the first place.
 
entropy said:
It isn’t a ‘political’ fact. Inmates shouldn’t have to risk death because it might affect Newsom’s career. That is literally how we got here in the first place.
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So pointing out the political aspect of a topic isn’t “political”. Aight

And again, to reiterate...

Just because someone points out a political fact doesn’t mean they 1) agree that it’s how it “should” be
 
entropy said:
It should go without saying that the numbers being reported are not accurate and the reality is far worse.
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Infections: 5,003,600 -> 100,000+ prisons = 2.0% (not all are prisoners)
Deaths: 161,921 -> 802 prisons = 0.5% (not all are prisoners)

The very link indicates long-term care facilities are far worse off. Are you gonna weep for these poor old people as much as prisoners?

Coronavirus cases have been reported in more than 15,000 nursing homes and other long-term care facilities, according to data collected by The New York Times from states, counties, the federal government and facilities themselves. More than 335,000 residents and employees have been infected in those homes, and more than 59,000 have died. That means more than 40 percent of deaths from the virus in the United States have been tied to nursing homes and other long-term care facilities.

In American jails and prisons, more than 100,000 people have been infected and at least 802 inmates and correctional officers have died. During interviews with dozens of inmates across the country, many said they were frightened and frustrated by what prison officials have acknowledged has been an uneven response to the virus.
 
MrMarcello said:
Infections: 5,003,600 -> 100,000+ prisons = 2.0% (not all are prisoners)
Deaths: 161,921 -> 802 prisons = 0.5% (not all are prisoners)

The very link indicates long-term care facilities are far worse off. Are you gonna weep for these poor old people as much as prisoners?

Coronavirus cases have been reported in more than 15,000 nursing homes and other long-term care facilities, according to data collected by The New York Times from states, counties, the federal government and facilities themselves. More than 335,000 residents and employees have been infected in those homes, and more than 59,000 have died. That means more than 40 percent of deaths from the virus in the United States have been tied to nursing homes and other long-term care facilities.

In American jails and prisons, more than 100,000 people have been infected and at least 802 inmates and correctional officers have died. During interviews with dozens of inmates across the country, many said they were frightened and frustrated by what prison officials have acknowledged has been an uneven response to the virus.
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Racism accusations incoming...
 
Carolina Red said:
So pointing out the political aspect of a topic isn’t “political”. Aight

And again, to reiterate...

Just because someone points out a political fact doesn’t mean they 1) agree that it’s how it “should” be
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My point, something which I have mentioned multiple times, is to steer clear of republican talking points. They are mostly BS and doesn’t help the cause in anyway whatsoever.
 
entropy said:
My point, something which I have mentioned multiple times, is to steer clear of republican talking points. They are mostly BS and doesn’t help the cause in anyway whatsoever.
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And my point is that political reality is political reality.

You didn’t even ask if I agreed with the GOP talking point - you just attacked because I brought it up.

And to another point of political realism - it doesn’t matter if you want to steer clear of them or not. They exist and they’ve won Congress and the Presidency for nearly the last decade. Maybe they shouldn’t be ignored.
 
Carolina Red said:
And my point is that political reality is political reality.

You didn’t even ask if I agreed with the GOP talking point - you just attacked because I brought it up.

And to another point of political realism - it doesn’t matter if you want to steer clear of them or not. They exist and they’ve won Congress and the Presidency for nearly the last decade. Maybe they shouldn’t be ignored.
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True, but the reality is that our national bird should be an ostrich, not a bald eagle

That being said the fact that the bald eagle is a kleptoparasite is hilariously fitting.
 
@MrMarcello It’s a shame that your posts, which are actually factual and contain useful information/talking points, are ignored to continue to just post ridiculous rhetoric. The “huh?” reply to your last post was particularly amusing, just shows some people are completely incapable of an adult debate when valid points are raised, which they can’t just throw rhetoric at.
 
rpitroda said:
@MrMarcello It’s a shame that your posts, which are actually factual and contain useful information/talking points, are ignored to continue to just post ridiculous rhetoric. The “huh?” reply to your last post was particularly amusing, just shows some people are completely incapable of an adult debate when valid points are raised, which they can’t just throw rhetoric at.
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Let me get this straight, you think, “Are you gonna weep for these poor old people as much as prisoners?” Is actually a valid argument?
 
Carolina Red said:
Ah yes, because tons of slaves were slaves because they’d killed or raped or attempted to kill and attempted to rape people.

As I said, @MrMarcello summed up the problem nicely. Ignoring the points there is just silly.
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That has nothing to do with it whatsoever. If a society incarcerates people and then fails to keep them safe while incarcerated that society is no better than the murderer, rapists or pedophile.

It's just organized cruelty by the masses. Any state that can't keep it's prisoners safe has absolutely no moral authority to take prisoners in the first place, regardless of what they've done. And if they do, they're just as bad as what they are fighting.
 
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entropy said:
Let me get this straight, you think, “Are you gonna weep for these poor old people as much as prisoners?” Is actually a valid argument?
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It's rather amusing you respond to quips directed at you yet litter this forum with them.

Here's an idea, and I guesstimate you're intelligent enough to comprehend, maybe challenge the data provided?

I provided data that reflects persons in long term care facilities and nursing homes have suffered more than 3x the number of infections as to prisoners, and a death rate 73x higher, and I've not yet seen you respond to "poor old people." Why only prisoners?
 
MrMarcello said:
It's rather amusing you respond to quips directed at you yet litter this forum with them.

Here's an idea, and I guesstimate you're intelligent enough to comprehend, maybe challenge the data provided?

I provided data that reflects persons in long term care facilities and nursing homes have suffered more than 3x the number of infections as to prisoners, and a death rate 73x higher, and I've not yet seen you respond to "poor old people." Why only prisoners?
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To be fair to @entropy, they are being consistent when it comes to the age of people. In the 2020 Elections thread we were told that considering our children (or nieces and nephews) when voting is "leveraging them".
 
MrMarcello said:
It's rather amusing you respond to quips directed at you yet litter this forum with them.

Here's an idea, and I guesstimate you're intelligent enough to comprehend, maybe challenge the data provided?

I provided data that reflects persons in long term care facilities and nursing homes have suffered more than 3x the number of infections as to prisoners, and a death rate 73x higher, and I've not yet seen you respond to "poor old people." Why only prisoners?
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Because the state is doing feck all to protect them. By cutting off communication with their families or not sharing accurate data, they are just making matters worse. These prisons don’t have the resources to deal with the outbreak. I still don’t get what nursing homes have to do with any of this.
 
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entropy said:
Because the state is doing feck all to protect them. By cutting off communication with their families or not sharing accurate data, they are just making matters worse. These prisons don’t have the resources to deal with the outbreak.
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you just described the situation in the majority of nursing homes. It is a population of elderly people, many who are suffering from cognitive decline, who can no longer see family and are not being cared for in a way that will prevent an absurd number of them from dying. I would bring up personal examples of this, but that would be, you know, leveraging elderly family members.
 
entropy said:
Because the state is doing feck all to protect them. By cutting off communication with their families or not sharing accurate data, they are just making matters worse. These prisons don’t have the resources to deal with the outbreak.
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Fair enough. Therein why I mentioned two separate issues at play: humanitarian and criminal.

The state should look after their incarcerated during this pandemic, yes, but we must also remind ourselves many of these persons are convicted of varying crimes, often violent and/or contributing to the destruction of society. This is why I argue a state cannot simply open the prison doors to flood the streets with violent felons (not all are violent but the California and Texas incarcerated become notoriously hardened through prison life and politics, often linking up with gangs for life). While I do agree that persons can be redeemed in life, with both an internal desire and reform/therapy, simply releasing them will alleviate one problem will adding more to the whole and burdening the public.

But instead of attacking the posters why not present options of how to combat a virus for incarcerated?
 
Guys, you are just going to go in circles with this poster until he finds away to link your anti-blackness with your genocidal tendencies while ignoring everything you post without offering any solution. We are bad, he is good.
 
MrMarcello said:
Fair enough. Therein why I mentioned two separate issues at play: humanitarian and criminal.

The state should look after their incarcerated during this pandemic, yes, but we must also remind ourselves many of these persons are convicted of varying crimes, often violent and/or contributing to the destruction of society. This is why I argue a state cannot simply open the prison doors to flood the streets with violent felons (not all are violent but the California and Texas incarcerated become notoriously hardened through prison life and politics, often linking up with gangs for life). While I do agree that persons can be redeemed in life, with both an internal desire and reform/therapy, simply releasing them will alleviate one problem will adding more to the whole and burdening the public.

But instead of attacking the posters why not present options of how to combat a virus for incarcerated?
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Just reply with "huh". If he thinks that's good enough for your excellent post then that's all he deserves.
 
MrMarcello said:
Fair enough. Therein why I mentioned two separate issues at play: humanitarian and criminal.

The state should look after their incarcerated during this pandemic, yes, but we must also remind ourselves many of these persons are convicted of varying crimes, often violent and/or contributing to the destruction of society. This is why I argue a state cannot simply open the prison doors to flood the streets with violent felons (not all are violent but the California and Texas incarcerated become notoriously hardened through prison life and politics, often linking up with gangs for life). While I do agree that persons can be redeemed in life, with both an internal desire and reform/therapy, simply releasing them will alleviate one problem will adding more to the whole and burdening the public.

But instead of attacking the posters why not present options of how to combat a virus for incarcerated?
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I am still confused as to why you'd think bringing up nursing homes is somehow related to covid outbreaks in prisons or "are you gonna weep for these old people as much as prisoners" is some form of a valid argument.
 
entropy said:
I am still confused as to why you'd think bringing up nursing homes is somehow related to covid outbreaks in prisons or "are you gonna weep for these old people as much as prisoners" is some form of a valid argument.
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Still with the quips, eh?

The rebuttal was long-term care facilities and nursing homes are suffering far worse than prisons. Argue for the states to fix that issue as well. I've also addressed your prior response, concisely I may add.
 
MrMarcello said:
Still with the quips, eh?

The rebuttal was long-term care facilities and nursing homes are suffering far worse than prisons. Argue for the states to fix that issue as well. I've also addressed your prior response, concisely I may add.
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What quip? you literally posted that and I found it confusing then and still do so now.
 
GiddyUp said:
Guys, you are just going to go in circles with this poster until he finds away to link your anti-blackness with your genocidal tendencies while ignoring everything you post without offering any solution. We are bad, he is good.
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Been like this for a long time, don’t know how people still give him the attention.
 
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