US Politics

[InfiniteBoredom]

Also, for all the making lives worse for other people, didn't he save Obamacare being the only one conservative who voted for it?

No, Kennedy being the other.

He ain't that bad. Of course, I don't agree with most of his views, but you, Eboue and co. need to understand that half of American people seem to mostly agree with them, which is why Republicans have the presidency, senate, house and most of governatorial positions. There is not a right vs wrong in these things, and different people see things differently.

Roberts himself was the product of an illegitimate president who won an election with less popular vote, and a Supreme Court decision regarding a contested result in a state his brother was governor of and had a huge hand in suppressing minority votes by purging them off voter rolls systematically.

And the fact that Democrats lost 1000 seats since 08 when they had a supermajority in Senate and house may have something to do with the fact that they've been so feckless in fighting the Republican agenda, starting with punishing those responsible for the crash.

 

[Revan]

No, Kennedy being the other.

Two different votes. In "National Federation of Independent Business v. Sebelius', Roberts was the only conservative who sided with liberal judges. That gave ammunition to lunatics for all sorts of conspiracies, and angered Republicans. The story is that Roberts decided to do so because the court overturning the law would have create all sorts of problems, and be very unpopular, so despite that he initially sided with the other conservatives, when it became clear that they were going to win, he changed sides in order to not be the guy who did so. The ruling you're mentioning is King vs Burwell when both him and Kennedy sided with liberals.

Roberts himself was the product of an illegitimate president who won an election with less popular vote, and a Supreme Court decision regarding a contested result in a state his brother was governor of and had a huge hand in suppressing minority votes by purging them off voter rolls systematically.

And the fact that Democrats lost 1000 seats since 08 when they had a supermajority in Senate and house may have something to do with the fact that they've been so feckless in fighting the Republican agenda, starting with punishing those responsible for the crash.

It doesn't matter in US.

While the decision was undoubtedly corrupt, in the end it seems that it didn't change much. According to studies done later, Bush would have won anyway.

 

[Eboue]

He ain't that bad. Of course, I don't agree with most of his views, but you, Eboue and co. need to understand that half of American people seem to mostly agree with them

no they dont.

 

[Revan]

^^^ Why then the evil Republicans who aren't supported by anyone control house, senate, presidency and are governators in most states?

People voted them.

 

[Eboue]

^^^ Why then the evil Republicans who aren't supported by anyone control house, senate, presidency and are governators in most states?

People voted them.

because republicans engage in massive voter disenfranchisement and gerrymandering and democrats are neoliberal cowards who havent presented a compelling platform. 110 million eligible voters didnt even vote in 2016 and for many its because they dont want to choose between Corporate Party That Hates Gays and Corporate Party Thats Fine With Gays

 

[langster]

I used to get paddled by my principal in Alabama. That sort of thing used to be a bit of a sport among teachers and principals in the south. My principal had a fairly broad variety of paddles made out of all sorts of different trees. Good times.

That explains a lot.

 

[Raoul]

^^^ Why then the evil Republicans who aren't supported by anyone control house, senate, presidency and are governators in most states?

People voted them.

In addition to what Eboue said, the Dems simply don't have their act together. They have been split between two factions who want to take the party in diverging directions.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

because republicans engage in massive voter disenfranchisement and gerrymandering and democrats are neoliberal cowards who havent presented a compelling platform. 110 million eligible voters didnt even vote in 2016 and for many its because they dont want to choose between Corporate Party That Hates Gays and Corporate Party Thats Fine With Gays

The political structure of America itself is a massive problem. Regardless of their ideological bend, FL, TX, CA and NY together account for 33% of the population, they got 8% representation in the Senate, which can overrule the House of Representatives that goes by Census. This distribution also means that they have a lock on the Senate. To win the Senate, Dems would need on average a 14% general ballot advantage. That's not democracy, so the 'will of the people' is just a convenient straw man.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

It doesn't matter in US.

While the decision was undoubtedly corrupt, in the end it seems that it didn't change much. According to studies done later, Bush would have won anyway.

If the fact that the majority get snubbed regularly because of an arcane system, then the Republicans holding the States and federal power can't be attributed to 'the people'.

And while most studies done later did indeed point to a Bush victory, they didn't take into account the fact that 20000 black Floridians got purged off voter rolls by Jeb Bush and his minions.

 

[PedroMendez]

 

[berbatrick]

Missed this

 

[fishfingers15]

Missed this

You think large scale voter suppression happened?

 

[berbatrick]

You think large scale voter suppression happened?

I don't know how widespread - based just on twitter outrage I think 2016 had more.
In 2016 I thought it was shoddy record-keeping, and the city was forced by the court to promise reforms: https://www.wnyc.org/story/city-board-elections-admits-it-broke-law-accepts-reforms/
It's repeated, so I think it's more than a mistake.

 

[Eboue]

here's your "not that bad" guy @Revan

 

[Eboue]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/15/...dent-loans-recession.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

this is a really good article. i have a similar background to the author and through a combination of luck and my parents sacrifices and planning have been able to avoid the worst of what is described. but i know so many people who havent had my luck even though they are smarter and have worked harder than i have. but this is the reality for this generation and the failure to acknowledge it and aid the effected on any serious level by either party is a disgrace.

a vast section of the country is full of people with stories like this. or stories of people from youngstown and gary and flint who live in a post industrial hellhole. or stories of people whose communities have been ravaged by opioids.


this country simply does not work anymore. it never worked for so many minorities who were crushed under the boots of capitalism and racism but now its not even working for formerly middle class white people. there may finally be enough people who just cant afford to live anymore to actually make serious changes in the coming years. i kind of understand how some people who are generally well meaning but live in bubbles of affluence dont understand what other people face but that isnt the case for my generation. almost every american who grew up in the aftermath of 9/11 has known only unjust war and financial collapse. we put our hopes in obama, we trusted incrementalism and it brought us here...

 

[Eboue]

there are no good republicans

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/15/...dent-loans-recession.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

this is a really good article. i have a similar background to the author and through a combination of luck and my parents sacrifices and planning have been able to avoid the worst of what is described. but i know so many people who havent had my luck even though they are smarter and have worked harder than i have. but this is the reality for this generation and the failure to acknowledge it and aid the effected on any serious level by either party is a disgrace.

a vast section of the country is full of people with stories like this. or stories of people from youngstown and gary and flint who live in a post industrial hellhole. or stories of people whose communities have been ravaged by opioids.


this country simply does not work anymore. it never worked for so many minorities who were crushed under the boots of capitalism and racism but now its not even working for formerly middle class white people. there may finally be enough people who just cant afford to live anymore to actually make serious changes in the coming years. i kind of understand how some people who are generally well meaning but live in bubbles of affluence dont understand what other people face but that isnt the case for my generation. almost every american who grew up in the aftermath of 9/11 has known only unjust war and financial collapse. we put our hopes in obama, we trusted incrementalism and it brought us here...

Ah sell the disease, profit off the cure. Of course the DOJ is hard at work arguing capital punishment for kids smoking weed to care for this silly shit.

 

[Eboue]

 

[Member 5225]

Bit off topic but as likeable as she is, how can anyone take her seriously as a politician?!

 

[Raoul]

Bit off topic but as likeable as she is, how can anyone take her seriously as a politician?!

You have to cut her a bit of slack. She obvious needs to sharpen her media game, but given that she was working as a bartender last year with no TV experience, she is improving from her early interviews a couple of months ago.

But Tapper's questions is a legitimate one and she should be prepared to nail down the exact funding sources. All she would have to do in this regard is visit Sanders' web page where he goes into detail of how he would fund it. Just regurgitate something similar to this - https://berniesanders.com/issues/medicare-for-all/

 

[Adisa]

You'd have to be a buffoon to think America cannot afford universal healthcare. However she has to be able to defend her numbers or she'll be eaten alive.

 

[Member 5225]

You have to cut her a bit of slack. She obvious needs to sharpen her media game, but given that she was working as a bartender last year with no TV experience, she is improving from her early interviews a couple of months ago.

But Tapper's questions is a legitimate one and she should be prepared to nail down the exact funding sources. All she would have to do in this regard is visit Sanders' web page where he goes into detail of how he would fund it. Just regurgitate something similar to this - https://berniesanders.com/issues/medicare-for-all/

Yep totally agree and I do cut her some slack tbh.
But if I was in her inner circle, I’d constantly train her for that question.

You’re gonna hate me for saying it, but something Bannon has mastered very well. The recent documentary about him (American Dharma) has him saying something along the lines of ‘its not all just rational, black and white, driven solely by numbers’ - even if she had a holding statement like that...

 

[Florida Man]

In regards to the funding of universal healthcare, is it just assumed that medical costs will stay the same? (Ie $20 for a tylenol, or a million dollars for a transplant)

 

[Red Dreams]

In regards to the funding of universal healthcare, is it just assumed that medical costs will stay the same? (Ie $20 for a tylenol, or a million dollars for a transplant)

Firstly the artificial cost of Insurance companies goes away.

Secondly part of universal healthcare would enable Congress to buy medicine at the lowest cost. This means we can get medication from overseas if they are lower. Competition will ensure we get much cheaper medicine for starters.

Also the cost of medical procedures will be a lot more efficient and cheaper because Doctors would not have find ways to get round insurance companies to give patients the best care they deserve. Insurance companies always try and deny coverage that costs them money.

If you look at an "Explanation of Benefits" it states the full cost and discounts and what ends being charges. Of course there is the end bit which says what you need to pay.

Remember. This is the cost after your exorbitant premium and deductibles.

 

[Grinner]

She's not incoherent and it's clear that single payer would pay for itself from what we already pay to health insurance companies. Stuff like student loans is small potatoes in the big scheme.

Tapper is looking for a gotcha rather than truth.

 

[Raoul]

She's not incoherent and it's clear that single payer would pay for itself from what we already pay to health insurance companies. Stuff like student loans is small potatoes in the big scheme.

Tapper is looking for a gotcha rather than truth.

It’s a fair question for him to ask,and one she should be able to answer convincingly without any deer in the headlights hesitation. The media also need to extend a similar line of questioning to right wingers who are pushing tax cuts. How will they get paid for ? etc

 

[Grinner]

It’s a fair question for him to ask,and one she should be able to answer convincingly without any deer in the headlights hesitation. The media also need to extend a similar line of questioning to right wingers who are pushing tax cuts. How will they get paid for ? etc

I don't see a deer in the headlights. She explained herself, maybe not to your liking.

Only an idiot would think that she would try and get everything done at once and need all the money for it in one go. Tapper was being a prick.

 

[Adisa]

It’s a fair question for him to ask,and one she should be able to answer convincingly without any deer in the headlights hesitation. The media also need to extend a similar line of questioning to right wingers who are pushing tax cuts. How will they get paid for ? etc

This is the only part the media fails at. And with the country needing over $1trn in infrastructure investment, it's a necessary question. She is absolutely right in that the country can afford all those things but she should be able to defend herself.

 

[Raoul]

I don't see a deer in the headlights. She explained herself, maybe not to your liking.

Only an idiot would think that she would try and get everything done at once and need all the money for it in one go. Tapper was being a prick.

Her explanation wasn’t nearly comprehensive enough since she failed to directly answer the question. If I was someone on the fence I would’ve left the interview distinctively unimpressed. Tapper went out of his way to let her speak at length and she didn’t deliver. Contrast how Sanders awnsers the same question to her response and it’s pretty obvious she has a lot of work to do. Not a big deal since she technically isn’t even elected yet, so there is plenty of time.

 

[Raoul]

This is the only part the media fails at. And with the country needing over $1trn in infrastructure investment, it's a necessary question. She is absolutely right in that the country can afford all those things but she should be able to defend herself.

Agreed. They seem to hold progressives to a higher standard than right wing tax cutters.

 

[Grinner]

Her explanation wasn’t nearly comprehensive enough since she failed to directly answer the question. If I was someone on the fence I would’ve left the interview distinctively unimpressed. Tapper went out of his way to let her speak at length and she didn’t deliver. Contrast how Sanders awnsers the same question to her response and it’s pretty obvious she has a lot of work to do. Not a big deal since she technically isn’t even elected yet, so there is plenty of time.

It's a bullshit question. That's the problem with US media. They can't do substantive policy discussion because it's easier and more fun to do gotcha questions that can be added to their news timeline when somebody can't answer it as they want them to.

 

[Florida Man]

It's a bullshit question. That's the problem with US media. They can't do substantive policy discussion because it's easier and more fun to do gotcha questions that can be added to their news timeline when somebody can't answer it as they want them to.

Do you think she gets that question if she was on a program like Fareed Zakaria?

 

[Grinner]

Do you think she gets that question if she was on a program like Fareed Zakaria?

Dunno, I don't watch him.

She's been in the job for 5 minutes yet the establishment have decided to label her as the progressive nut from NY who's cute and quaint but not to be taken seriously. But the people who voted for her don't watch Jake fecking Tapper and don't give a shit that her media strategy isn't polished. That's partly why they voted for her.

 

[Red Dreams]

I don't watch Tapper because he always plays the gotcha game. He is also too lazy to actually get data on a subject as a proper journalist would so that viewers can learn.

Damn I miss Tim Russert.

But I'm going to watch this video when I'm home to see how he makes a fool of himself.

 

[Florida Man]

Dunno, I don't watch him.

She's been in the job for 5 minutes yet the establishment have decided to label her as the progressive nut from NY who's cute and quaint but not to be taken seriously. But the people who voted for her don't watch Jake fecking Tapper and don't give a shit that her media strategy isn't polished. That's partly why they voted for her.

He’s got the Sunday morning hour show on CNN but his discussions are rational, reasonable, and absent of gotcha questions. It’s akin to something you’d see on the BBC.

 

[ChaddyP]

I honestly dont see whats wrong with the question. She didnt answer it and thats what they do on the left and the right. I always find it interesting when the left and the right moan about Tapper. How is asking how are you planning to pay for this a gotcha question. He would ask and has asked the same from the right about the tax cuts

 

[Red Dreams]

I've seen Obama shut him down for his gotcha questions a couple of times when he was taking questions from the press.

Stopped watching him and CNN after seeing him do the same in a few other interviews.

 

[Red Dreams]

A good journalist needs to have knowledge about the person he or she is going to interview.
Secondly he/she needs to have a reasonable understanding of the subject being discussed without needing to be an expert.

This is not the highest requirement. This is the minimum.

Almost all fail this test.

 

[Pexbo]

I don't watch Tapper because he always plays the gotcha game. He is also too lazy to actually get data on a subject as a proper journalist would so that viewers can learn.

Damn I miss Tim Russert.

But I'm going to watch this video when I'm home to see how he makes a fool of himself.

Disagree with you there. Tapper is an excellent journalist. He clearly believes in the craft. I think in cases like this he sees it as his duty to ask the hard questions, if she was more prepared and had more experience she would have been able to use his questions to drive a message home but alas she’s not there yet.

 

[fishfingers15]

We crib about why gotcha questions are not asked about the right and the right cribs about why gotcha questions are not asked about the left.