US Military helicopter hits American Airlines jet near Washington National Airport

berbatrick said:
I follow those ATC youtube channels and there's been a separation incident in the US every few months, for almost 2-3 years now. Many at SF and DC.
But unlike this one, none involved a helicopter, most involved an aircraft on the runway in conflict with one in the air or on a taxiway, in many, the ATC seemed to be at fault, and of course, for the ones in the air, TCAS got involved.
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These happen everyday and not just in the US, they're mostly separation issues due to various sized aircraft getting too close and becoming at risk of wake turbulence,
 
buchansleftleg said:
Helicopter Pilot being totally blamed by the President on National TV for Killing the people on the Plane....I wonder if the ethnicity of the Helicopter Pilot is already known by the President?
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It’s ridiculous really on National TV trying to pin it on sub intelligence due to DEI! 4 more years of this shitshow
 
AfonsoAlves said:
Wrong.
F-35's safety record is impeccable.

F-16 has a 4.85% crash rate from total airframes.
F/A-18 has a 12.5% crash rate from total airframes.
F/A-18G/J has a 6.16% crash rate
F-15C/E has a 10.93% crash rate

F-35 currently stands at 1.08% crash rate.



It's improved exponentially over the past half century. As seen with the data above.

Also, it isn't that much different from Airliner crashes. US in 2007 was at a rate of 6.8 crashes per 100,000 flight hours. 2023 which was a record breaking year for safety in the US was at 1.8 per 100,000.

F-16 stands at 3.55 per 100k hours.
F-15 stands at 1.89 per 100k hours
F-35 stands at 2.22 per 100k hours.

Basically, you were more likely to be involved in an accident/crash in a US civilian plane in 2007 than you were in a military fighter jet. Now, in 2023 its the other way around but the difference is not gigantic.
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Not gigantic? The last US airline crash prior to last night was in 2009
 
The Firestarter said:
You say wrong then confirm the number I gave (1%) . Don't you think its a little unusual for such a hi tech airframe in the 21st century ? Also you say its record is impeccable - now that's obviously not the case.
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Fergies Gum said:
You have literally proved the point the OP was making.
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BD said:
Wasn't it that the original point was simply that rates are quite high, which the OP then said "yeah 1%", then you said nah the F35s are impeccable and only have a rate of 1.08%. So you said exactly what he said, while also claiming that they are impeccable when they quite clearly aren't.
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Guys, I think it should be clear that he was not saying “wrong” to the 1%, but rather to 1% being an “especially” good type of example for a “disproportionate amount of crashes” involving a military airframe.
 
buchansleftleg said:
Helicopter Pilot being totally blamed by the President on National TV for Killing the people on the Plane....I wonder if the ethnicity of the Helicopter Pilot is already known by the President?
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I mean they obviously know the identity of the heli crew since 10 minutes after the crash. The fact they weaponize it so blatantly - only short of saying “hey they were black/woman and that’s why they crashed” - is the bizarre part
 
Carolina Red said:
Guys, I think it should be clear that he was not saying “wrong” to the 1%, but rather to 1% being an “especially” good type of example for a “disproportionate amount of crashes” involving a military airframe.
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It's not that clear when you take into account the F22 hull losses/mishaps. Now that's some really good numbers compared to toal hours flown.
 
Here you go:

Reflecting this increase in miles flown, preliminary estimates of the total number of accidents involving a U.S. registered civilian aircraft increased from 1,220 in 2021 to 1,277 in 2022. The number of civil aviation deaths decreased from 373 in 2021 to 358 in 2022.
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The Firestarter said:
It's not that clear when you take into account the F22 hull losses/mishaps. Now that's some really good numbers compared to toal hours flown.
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No, it's worse than F-35. 5 airframes have been lost out of a total of 187 at a loss percentage of 2.67%.

Crash rate is even higher at 8.5%
 
AfonsoAlves said:
No, it's not. The last large scale commercial airliner was 2009. The amount of undocumented/no media Bombadier crashes is huge.
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Sorry that's complete bollocks, undocumented/no media airliner crashes no matter which manufacturer does not happen and never has happened, it might not be high-lighted in US media because somthing that happens outside of the US holds no interest to the public here
 
But there's a particular reason why I didn't include F-22 because it's a pretty unique designation.

No other plane has entire squadrons solely dedicated to training with a training configuration and build that differs from the mains service build.

Most training frames for other aircraft are usually older variants set for retirement that get sent to base as a training frame, but the distribution for each frame between exercise/training time and operational duty time has a more even ratio.

F-22 operational squadrons have much different training/operation exercise ratio's as they have a dedicated set of squadron frames for that very purpose.
 
Red in STL said:
Sorry that's complete bollocks, undocumented/no media airliner crashes no matter which manufacturer does not happen and never has happened, it might not be high-lighted in US media because somthing that happens outside of the US holds no interest to the public here
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I've literally just posted the official US data on number of crashes. 1277 crashes in 2022.

Here you go:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1031941/us-general-aviation-accidents/

https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/home-an...ng this increase in miles,2021 to 358 in 2022.
 
Trump saying he signed a bill to hire people of "superior intelligence" to work as Air Traffic Controllers.

Median annual wage for air traffic controllers is $137k.

Sorry, I think I will take my "superior intelligence" and work elsewhere.
 
gaffs said:
Trump saying he signed a bill to hire people of "superior intelligence" to work as Air Traffic Controllers.

Median annual wage for air traffic controllers is $137k.

Sorry, I think I will take my "superior intelligence" and work elsewhere.
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Is that considered a poor salary?
 
AfonsoAlves said:
No, it's worse than F-35. 5 airframes have been lost out of a total of 187 at a loss percentage of 2.67%.

Crash rate is even higher at 8.5%
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I said per hours flown. That stat equalised between the two somewhere in 2024. And by then f 35 had double the hull loses.

Surely you can see how what you just did in your post is a logical fallacy ? The f22 fleet is tiny (<200) compared to f35 which is (>1000). To give you an example , you can have an airplane that has been made in a quantity of 1, fly 1 million hours for half a century and then crash. By your logic , it will have a 100% crash record and be worse compared to the f35.
Hope this helps.
 
The Firestarter said:
I said per hours flown. That stat equalised between the two somewhere in 2024. And by then f 35 had double the hull loses.

Surely you can see how what you just did in your post is a logical fallacy ? The f22 fleet is tiny (<200) compared to f35 which is (>1000). To give you an example , you can have an airplane that has been made in a quantity of 1, fly 1 million hours for half a century and then crash. By your logic , it will have a 100% crash record and be worse compared to the f35.
Hope this helps.
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It's a pointless comparison which I addressed above.

F-22's do not have the same training/operation sortie split as normal airframes do in the USAF.

Anyway if you really want to go down that route, F-22 crash rate is 7.2 per 100,000 hours, as per FY23 official documents

https://www.safety.af.mil/Portals/71/documents/Aviation/Aircraft Statistics/F-22FY23.pdf
 
2cents said:
Is that considered a poor salary?
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I think they pay ATC much better in many European countries, with much lower living cost. I know in Spain it's a job that pays a salary incomparable (5-10x more or so) to normal stuff. huge responsibility and you have to be on top of your nerves every second of the job.
 
CloneMC16 said:
This press conference is crazy.
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Absolutely insane. Reminds me of those rambling COVID briefings.

Him describing the crash is just one of the craziest thing i have ever heard....

"I have helicopters, it could have gone down very quickly. Or up".

People will soon remember how much of a nut job Trump is.
 
Red in STL said:
These happen everyday and not just in the US, they're mostly separation issues due to various sized aircraft getting too close and becoming at risk of wake turbulence,
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well, these weren't exactly the kind of seperation issues you are describing. a typical example would be an airplane aborting a landing after noticing another airplane on the active runway, unnoticed by ATC.
 
So, according to Trump transsexuals in the airforce are to blame. Not that Trump would be so callous to politicize such a tragic event like this.
 
The Firestarter said:
Is he claiming heli pilot was lgbt or in general?
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The funny thing is that if the pilot would result that he is a straight white male and his wife would come out saying that and having the perfect family and that would go against anything that Trump would vaguely hint, the media (and social) would find a trans childhood friend that would say that he was gay and people would lap it up
 
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