US Military helicopter hits American Airlines jet near Washington National Airport

AfonsoAlves said:
Wrong.
F-35's safety record is impeccable.

F-16 has a 4.85% crash rate from total airframes.
F/A-18 has a 12.5% crash rate from total airframes.
F/A-18G/J has a 6.16% crash rate
F-15C/E has a 10.93% crash rate

F-35 currently stands at 1.08% crash rate.



It's improved exponentially over the past half century. As seen with the data above.

Also, it isn't that much different from Airliner crashes. US in 2007 was at a rate of 6.8 crashes per 100,000 flight hours. 2023 which was a record breaking year for safety in the US was at 1.8 per 100,000.

F-16 stands at 3.55 per 100k hours.
F-15 stands at 1.89 per 100k hours
F-35 stands at 2.22 per 100k hours.

Basically, you were more likely to be involved in an accident/crash in a US civilian plane in 2007 than you were in a military fighter jet. Now, in 2023 its the other way around but the difference is not gigantic.
Click to expand...
You say wrong then confirm the number I gave (1%) . Don't you think its a little unusual for such a hi tech airframe in the 21st century ? Also you say its record is impeccable - now that's obviously not the case.
 
WPMUFC said:
yeah, seems they deleted it. thanks for letting me know. I'll delete.
Click to expand...

I was informed misinformation wasn’t prevalent on bluesky but seems like it’s impossible to avoid, always gonna be idiots on any platform
 
The Firestarter said:
You say wrong then confirm the number I gave (1%) . Don't you think its a little unusual for such a hi tech airframe in the 21st century ? Also you say its record is impeccable - now that's obviously not the case.
Click to expand...

You’re wrong in your implication that F35s crash rate is higher than usual.

It’s not unusual whatsoever. Everything is relative to all around it and compared to all other military airframes it has an impeccable record.

Hint: training crashes during operational testing of civilian airliner QAs are not publicised. Nor do civilian aircraft constantly do flights in purposefully fudged scenarios. What do you think the crash rate of a Boeing 747 would be if they did a passenger flight then immediately had to do a flight where they tested what would happen if an engine was knocked out and then the sensors stopped working? Then immediately after that test it’s switched backed to passenger haul mode for another commercial trip?
 
AfonsoAlves said:
Wrong.
F-35's safety record is impeccable.

F-16 has a 4.85% crash rate from total airframes.
F/A-18 has a 12.5% crash rate from total airframes.
F/A-18G/J has a 6.16% crash rate
F-15C/E has a 10.93% crash rate

F-35 currently stands at 1.08% crash rate.



It's improved exponentially over the past half century. As seen with the data above.

Also, it isn't that much different from Airliner crashes. US in 2007 was at a rate of 6.8 crashes per 100,000 flight hours. 2023 which was a record breaking year for safety in the US was at 1.8 per 100,000.

F-16 stands at 3.55 per 100k hours.
F-15 stands at 1.89 per 100k hours
F-35 stands at 2.22 per 100k hours.

Basically, you were more likely to be involved in an accident/crash in a US civilian plane in 2007 than you were in a military fighter jet. Now, in 2023 its the other way around but the difference is not gigantic.
Click to expand...

You have literally proved the point the OP was making.
 
Fergies Gum said:
You have literally proved the point the OP was making.
Click to expand...

What? The point is that military aircraft crash rates are getting unusually high.

It’s the opposite. It’s unusually low. And getting lower.

1% accident rate for a military aircraft is astoundingly low
 
FriedClams said:
I was informed misinformation wasn’t prevalent on bluesky but seems like it’s impossible to avoid, always gonna be idiots on any platform
Click to expand...
Nothing to do with Bluesky or idiots on any platform, it was wrongly reported and later retracted by actual news outlets like NBC.
 
NotChatGPT said:
There's been a fair few close calls with very fine margins, hasn't it?
Click to expand...
Sure have been. Mix of understaffed and thus overworked ATCs, and habitually narrow margins between aircraft both landing and taking off at US airports in order to maximize aircraft operations per hour. Plus far from all airports have been outfitted with a ground traffic surveillance system that automatically warns about possible conflicts.
 
AfonsoAlves said:
What? The point is that military aircraft crash rates are getting unusually high.

It’s the opposite. It’s unusually low. And getting lower.

1% accident rate for a military aircraft is astoundingly low
Click to expand...
Wasn't it that the original point was simply that rates are quite high, which the OP then said "yeah 1%", then you said nah the F35s are impeccable and only have a rate of 1.08%. So you said exactly what he said, while also claiming that they are impeccable when they quite clearly aren't.
 
From the videos, it looks dilebrate to me. The helicopter ran right into the plane. How can you not see a big white object with all those flashing lights right infront of you?
 
What a tragedy.

16 years ago we had a miracle on the Hudson. Unfortunately, no miracle on the Potomac.
 
BD said:
Wasn't it that the original point was simply that rates are quite high, which the OP then said "yeah 1%", then you said nah the F35s are impeccable and only have a rate of 1.08%. So you said exactly what he said, while also claiming that they are impeccable when they quite clearly aren't.
Click to expand...
Impeccable was a poor choice of words but the f35 has a good record considering only one person has died in it's crashes up to now (as far as I know).

These aircraft are expensive killing machines. Being idiot proof or indestructible by misuse isn't part of the brief.
 
Scarlett Dracarys said:
The pilot in this case didn't even have a chance to do anything. He was hit without any warning. I can't imagine the terror those people went through.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. Especially when you fall in frozen waters if you survive the initial impact. Unimaginable tragedy.
 
Very sad.

I'll take flying out of/into DCA over IAD any day (especially for weekend trips in and out of the DMV) but I've always wondered how they make it work with all the controlled airspace and air traffic in the area.
 
I appreciate so much the expertise that many members brings to plane crashes topics. But makes me wonder if I am the only one in the caf that is not a pilot

Is amazing the detailed knowledge displayed
 
adexkola said:
Very sad.

I'll take flying out of/into DCA over IAD any day (especially for weekend trips in and out of the DMV) but I've always wondered how they make it work with all the controlled airspace and air traffic in the area.
Click to expand...
I've kinda said it before but for a variety of reasons i think that airport has no business existing in today's world. They even want to raise capacity (which I believe was approved already). The short runway, challenging low speed approach over the Potomac along with all the non commercial aviation in close proximity PLUS Dulles and BWI nearby - not to mention the air force bases, and pretty active general aviation airports nearby as well is a cluster feck.
 
Redplane said:
I've kinda said it before but for a variety of reasons i think that airport has no business existing in today's world. They even want to raise capacity (which I believe was approved already). The short runway, challenging low speed approach over the Potomac along with all the non commercial aviation in close proximity PLUS Dulles and BWI nearby - not to mention the air force bases, and pretty active general aviation airports nearby as well is a cluster feck.
Click to expand...

Convenience for politicians I'd assume? From downtown DC to BWI/Dulles is a good 45 mins (without traffic)
 
4bars said:
I appreciate so much the expertise that many members brings to plane crashes topics. But makes me wonder if I am the only one in the caf that is not a pilot

Is amazing the detailed knowledge displayed
Click to expand...
They all watched Top Gun. There's a maverick in all of them.
 
BD said:
Wasn't it that the original point was simply that rates are quite high, which the OP then said "yeah 1%", then you said nah the F35s are impeccable and only have a rate of 1.08%. So you said exactly what he said, while also claiming that they are impeccable when they quite clearly aren't.
Click to expand...

Aircraft Impeccability, reliability and maintainability is a very specific classification indexes for military aircraft. Impeccability is more of an aggregate as opposed to a specific metric term.

It does not mean that this aircraft does not have accidents, nor does it mean it does not have safety problems. It means that compared to the median, mean and IQR's, it sits well outside the norm for its positive safety record and is a massive positive outlier.

1% is not high. 1% is extremely low. To a point where it's lower than practically every other military aircraft in the world.
 
Scarlett Dracarys said:
Are you? It's an opinion. Am I not allowed to have one or do you have more knowledge of the incident than anyone else in here?
Click to expand...
I thought it was a fair question. Certainly you're not throwing murder accusations around based on nothing but some crappy video filmed from far off where you cannot make out more than two lights and a fireball?
 
Trump turning a briefing on a tragedy into and anti-DEI diatribe....stay classy Donald!

Describing another politicians record as a "disaster" in the middle of a briefing of an ACTUAL disaster.
 
Last edited:
buchansleftleg said:
Department of Defence has said it was an experienced Helicopter crew doing a routine training refresher using night vision equipment.
Click to expand...

That's really interesting. I watched a Guy Martin series recently where he was driving an ATV with the British Army with night vision and he mentioned how your depth perception is affected by them. I wonder if that caused a misjudgement from the Heli pilot.
 
Scarlett Dracarys said:
From the videos, it looks dilebrate to me. The helicopter ran right into the plane. How can you not see a big white object with all those flashing lights right infront of you?
Click to expand...

There was a former military helicopter pilot on BBC News being interviewed earlier who explained. The Black Hawk crew were flying at night, wearing helmets and night vision equipment that would have impaired their peripheral vision and the CRJ was descending rapidly from above them. They probably misidentified a different aircraft as the one ATC were referring to and didn't see the CRJ until it was too late.
 
G3079 said:
I thought it was a fair question. Certainly you're not throwing murder accusations around based on nothing but some crappy video filmed from far off where you cannot make out more than two lights and a fireball?
Click to expand...
Maybe it's the crappy video that makes it's seem like they didn't try to avoid impact. Do you have a link to a better video?
 
Scarlett Dracarys said:
Maybe it's the crappy video that makes it's seem like they didn't try to avoid impact. Do you have a link to a better video?
Click to expand...
Do you even consider the option of not jumping to conclusions in the face of insufficient knowledge? Why immediatly assume the worst out of material that allows for no conclusions at all?
 
Scarlett Dracarys said:
Maybe it's the crappy video that makes it's seem like they didn't try to avoid impact. Do you have a link to a better video?
Click to expand...
No you are correct - the helicopter crew didn't seem to take any avoidance measures - maybe their vision was hindered by wearing night vision goggles.

I'm suspicious that this Presidential briefing has gone so hard on the DEI angle....I've a horrid feeling that the helicopter pilot has been targeted as the SOLE cause because of their ethnicity / background.

I feel sick - this is just like what he did with the Manchester Bombing - releasing details ahead of time to make himself important without thinking about the impact on families and those working to try and help.
 
buchansleftleg said:
.I've a horrid feeling that the helicopter pilot has been targeted as the SOLE cause because of their ethnicity / background.
Click to expand...
By how JD and that fecking Pete sounded it certainly seems to be the case

Also the amount of bootlicking for Trump from these guys is quite obscene, as if they were competing who says more “thank you for your leadership, as Mr president said”
 
You must log in or register to reply here.