US Men's National Team Discussion

[Prodigal7]

You're exactly correct. In university/college, you're a student-athlete. You have to have passing grades and attend class to be eligible to practice, let alone play - that's the same thing in A levels/high school. The youth academies in MLS or IMG Academy don't really offer schooling or proper education. IMG Academy is a paid academy where you have to pay almost $90K per year for training and 'schooling'. That's absurd.

The commitment towards school/education and football training is 75% education and 25% training, at least. There's no such thing as part-time education and then other time devoted to football. Loads of European youth kids, and I think Rashford is one of them, trained pretty much full time in the academy but still got their education A levels and maybe even a little more education.

The US kids are as you said not playing even a fraction or training as much as their SA and European counterparts. And their coaches and training techniques/methods/ideology is already sub-par.

I think what needs to happen is for top U15/U16 talent from the US To join a PL academy as a first year scholar. California has a lot of talent and weather aside I can’t see the adjustment to life in Manchester or London being too tough compared to major cities in the California region.

You have parent jobs etc to think of as well but I’m surprised this hasn’t happened yet to my knowledge. I remember a few years back we had an American lad train with Gribbin, Williams, Gomes etc from the US U15 side.

 

[mazhar13]

I've said this before but I found Bradley's move back to Toronto from Roma extremely baffling.

He got a huge salary from Toronto FC to come back to North America. That plus living in an area that he's more comfortable in seem like understandable reasons for him to come to TFC.

 

[edcunited1878]

I've said this before but I found Bradley's move back to Toronto from Roma extremely baffling.

He like other Americans who have had some solid success abroad like Dempsey, Altidore, Kliasjan, etc they eventually came back to MLS because they make a boat load more guaranteed money, they are guaranteed starters if not one of the best players in the league, and they want to have families where they grew up.

Bradley leaving Roma was dumb but he had family on his mind. But it's telling is form was never quite the same after leaving Europe.

Altidore made a terrible move to Sunderland from his successful time in Holland and should have stayed in Europe somehow, but again his wife and family had much more stability and money and lifestyle in America and Toronto.

 

[mazhar13]

I remember a few years back we had an American lad train with Gribbin, Williams, Gomes etc from the US U15 side.

Are you referring to Matthew Olosunde?

 

[edcunited1878]

I think what needs to happen is for top U15/U16 talent from the US To join a PL academy as a first year scholar. California has a lot of talent and weather aside I can’t see the adjustment to life in Manchester or London being too tough compared to major cities in the California region.

You have parent jobs etc to think of as well but I’m surprised this hasn’t happened yet to my knowledge. I remember a few years back we had an American lad train with Gribbin, Williams, Gomes etc from the US U15 side.

Yeah, training or going on a month trial is different than being accepted full time in a youth academy system and while I do agree and like your general idea, it's just not ideal for many, many families. Pulisic had the talent but most importantly his parents understood the best process for him and were able to split up the family in order to support him during those teenage years in a foreign country. It was always setup for him financially, emotionally, family wise, etc. That is an extremely rare case.

 

[Prodigal7]

Are you referring to Matthew Olosunde?

Actually forgot about him but he’s another example. This kid was an attacking midfielder though and I recall it being mentioned in the youth section here back then. @khoazany or @jb8521 might remember it.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

The lack of professional teams is due to a lack of interest in the sport. Whilst it is growing, there isn't enough money to be made for smaller teams at this time. I really do hope that the CPL can offer that for smaller Canadian teams and eventually have them integrate into that setup as part of a bigger footballing pyramid, and I hope that the lower American professional leagues get more exposure. Until that happens, though, it'd be difficult for those teams to have enough money to invest youth development let alone run as a pro team.

Regarding TFC specifically, that does worry me. We have a ton of Canadian talent around in Toronto and the GTA, but the fact that we want to make money off of their parents/guardians disappoints me. Until we open ourselves up, we might have to continue relying on other academies/teams to supply us our best young players (Osorio, Edwards, Shaffelburg).

Not as popular as the other sports, yet there are more kids playing soccer in Canada than hockey. Yet they have no problem scouting and finding the top hockey players...

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Isn’t it also that they have to go to university/college as part of the journey to be a pro soccer player?
In Europe you might do your A levels (high school diploma) part time from 16-18 years old but you’re training full time to be a football player and would go straight into being a full time football player after that. Everyone signs a pro contract at 17.

Us kids are playing a fraction of the training and game time that non US football players are at ages 16-18 which is where you really need to push on to get to an international level

You don't have to go to college or university, but again, that's where the scouts are looking...

 

[adexkola]

He like other Americans who have had some solid success abroad like Dempsey, Altidore, Kliasjan, etc they eventually came back to MLS because they make a boat load more guaranteed money, they are guaranteed starters if not one of the best players in the league, and they want to have families where they grew up.

Bradley leaving Roma was dumb but he had family on his mind. But it's telling is form was never quite the same after leaving Europe.

Altidore made a terrible move to Sunderland from his successful time in Holland and should have stayed in Europe somehow, but again his wife and family had much more stability and money and lifestyle in America and Toronto.

I don't begrudge any player looking out for their pockets or family, but agree with the bolded, there was an immediate drop off in his quality.

This wouldn't be a problem if the baseline quality of the MLS was much higher. Creating dedicated academies attached to each club would be one way to go about it, farming out youth development to the NCAA won't work the way it does now for college football (gridiron)

 

[edcunited1878]

I don't begrudge any player looking out for their pockets or family, but agree with the bolded, there was an immediate drop off in his quality.

This wouldn't be a problem if the baseline quality of the MLS was much higher. Creating dedicated academies attached to each club would be one way to go about it, farming out youth development to the NCAA won't work the way it does now for college football (gridiron)

ESPN is a big culprit in destroying the amateur status of basketball and american football by showcasing a lot of prep high school sports athletes, which influences their decision in going to some universities (i.e. Zion Williamson).

The baseline of MLS is crap because the pool of players aren't remotely close to being a proper full time MLS player. At least in baseball, kids are drafted out of high school at 17/18 and go into the minor league system for a few years at least and are under team control for like 6 years. They are able to grow and mature, etc but baseball doesn't require you to be professional top ready really until 23 or 24. If you compare that to football, that's about one or two professional contracts in or at least almost being a fully settled professional with a couple years of top level football under your belt.

Some MLS teams are using the USL Championship (the 2nd tier in US Soccer) as their 'minor league' feeder club to the parent MLS club. But even then, the talent is so watered down and the pay is shit.

US Soccer needs to own and operate their own local and regional academies in almost every state and it's open to any youth boys and girls, but it's expensive and they don't have the financial resources, support, or requisite talent (i.e. coaching, one football ethos, director) to oversee the different locations and the entire operation.

 

[Bastian]

Haha, not really. Just that the US Soccer actually started producing players who played in Europe, regardless of their role, club, or development. Jurgen Klinsmann challenged the Federation and youth players to test themselves in Europe and to bypass MLS or college if possible. MLS and US Soccer didn't like that at all and while Jurgen, was right, their egos and ignorance couldn't tolerate him any longer when results started going south.

Playing in Europe at any club and level that can play in European competition (CL or EL) is beneficial for all American players because the competition and coaching are so superior to the US. Plus the pressure on players in Europe is much greater and helpful when going into international play.

Yeah, Klinsmann certainly had the right idea there. With the US ownership levels in the Prem you could look into getting the best talent into the academies early, on a relatively wide scale. I don't think you can both put everything into the MLS and the US national team, paradoxically enough. The MLS will probably take much longer - even if it ever happens - to cultivate into a top class league, while getting youngsters into top academies could yield success much quicker. Similar to every small nation that doesn't have a top league.

 

[mazhar13]

Not as popular as the other sports, yet there are more kids playing soccer in Canada than hockey. Yet they have no problem scouting and finding the top hockey players...

Ice hockey is to Canada what football is to European countries. There are so many local teams around that bring up players from a young age. Most of the Canadian NHL players play for those provincial clubs before getting drafted into the NHL. If football developed something like this here, it'd take off.

 

[Greck]

Top US athletes have at least 4 sports they'd rather play than "soccer" which they look down on as a sport for kids to learn teamwork and win participation medals before moving on to "real sports". It's a totally different bubble over there. If football was their preferred sport there would be a totally different set of faces in their national team

 

[Carolina Red]

Top US athletes have at least 4 sports they'd rather play than "soccer" which they look down on as a sport for kids to learn teamwork and win participation medals before moving on to "real sports". It's a totally different bubble over there. If football was their preferred sport there would be a totally different set of faces in their national team

Accurate.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Ice hockey is to Canada what football is to European countries. There are so many local teams around that bring up players from a young age. Most of the Canadian NHL players play for those provincial clubs before getting drafted into the NHL. If football developed something like this here, it'd take off.

Yes, in hockey they go from playing Midget to bring drafted into junior A. In Ontario is the OHL. Our local team is the Niagara Ice Dogs. The players are aged 16-21. If you aren't drafted to the NHL by the time you are 21, then you aren't going to get there. But you could still play in Europe. It would be great if soccer in Canada had a similar system. Problem though starts with the youth systems and how expensive it is to play any sort of "elite" soccer. There needs to be better grassroots systems in place so talented players don't slip through the cracks just because their parents can't afford the expensive programs...

 

[paraguayo]

Top US athletes have at least 4 sports they'd rather play than "soccer" which they look down on as a sport for kids to learn teamwork and win participation medals before moving on to "real sports". It's a totally different bubble over there. If football was their preferred sport there would be a totally different set of faces in their national team

So they develop into great athletes and then they pick their sport? More like they develop into great athletes after chosing the sport. Never got this argument..

 

[forevrared]

I never get this argument. Does US develop a bunch of great athletes in some laboratory, and then make them choose their sport only after they are fully developed?

If you have 300 million people you should have enough good athletes for 4 sports, come on.

I don't think it's that straightforward. It has more to do with soccer's place in American society and how that affects the kids who play it.

First, it's not ingrained in the culture the way American football, baseball, or basketball are. Everything beyond those three are essentially 'less than' in the sporting hierarchy - and this certainly affects how many kids grow up playing it, organized or not. While this is changing, for the longest time, soccer was seen as a sport for generally affluent kids in the suburbs. Given the pay-to-play structure of the sport, there comes a time around middle school (age 11-13 or so) where you're either going to have to take it to the next level and buy into the pay-to-play scheme or not. For a large portion of Americans, it's just not an option. The only chance you have otherwise is to take your chances on amateur coaching at a public high school and hope you do well enough to earn a college scholarship, after which you may get lucky enough to be drafted into MLS by the time you're 21 or 22. This sort of structure works for the NFL and NBA because it's a level playing field and that's a standard pathway to becoming a professional. In terms of soccer on the world scale, you're already 4-5 of the most important years of your career behind.

It's a gap that USSF/MLS/USL seem to be attempting to bridge with academies and the like, but it's still not a perfect setup and it also doesn't cover the entire country. So many of our sporting heroes on the world stage come from poor backgrounds - soccer in America just isn't set up to give those kids a chance.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Didnt their golden generation retire having achieved a lot for the USA game?

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

So they develop into great athletes and then they pick their sport? More like they develop into great athletes after chosing the sport. Never got this argument..

I suspect it means the top athletes at school level are proficient in more than one sport, tending to pick the sports with the higher prestige in their surrounding culture, as their long term fit more often than not. Hence a game like soccer loses out on the absolute cream

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

I suspect it means the top athletes at school level are proficient in more than one sport, tending to pick the sports with the higher prestige in their surrounding culture, as their long term fit more often than not. Hence a game like soccer loses out on the absolute cream

Also in the vast majority of America, football & handegg have concurrent seasons - more or less eliminating the bulk of the top athletes.

 

[MrMarcello]

Yes, in hockey they go from playing Midget to bring drafted into junior A. In Ontario is the OHL. Our local team is the Niagara Ice Dogs. The players are aged 16-21. If you aren't drafted to the NHL by the time you are 21, then you aren't going to get there. But you could still play in Europe. It would be great if soccer in Canada had a similar system. Problem though starts with the youth systems and how expensive it is to play any sort of "elite" soccer. There needs to be better grassroots systems in place so talented players don't slip through the cracks just because their parents can't afford the expensive programs...

How do these junior leagues afford the hockey costs?

I've always heard hockey is the most expensive youth sport and yet Canada and parts of the US (seemingly) have no issue forming leagues, finding players, funding equipment and travel costs, etc.

 

[Gator Nate]

Also in the vast majority of America, football & handegg have concurrent seasons - more or less eliminating the bulk of the top athletes.

That's not the case in Florida. High school soccer is a winter sport here. It used to be a fall sport, but that changed about 15 years ago.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

That's not the case in Florida. High school soccer is a winter sport here. It used to be a fall sport, but that changed about 15 years ago.

Huh! I had no idea. I suppose that makes sense given your weather; where I'm from in the northeast both were in the fall. Unless that's changed as well seeing as I did graduate high school exactly 15 years ago...

 

[Gator Nate]

Huh! I had no idea. I suppose that makes sense given your weather; where I'm from in the northeast both were in the fall. Unless that's changed as well seeing as I did graduate high school exactly 15 years ago...

I coached track and cross country from 2003 to 2015, and the coaches loved the move of soccer. Kids could go from cross country in the fall, straight in to soccer in the winter, and then into track in the spring.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

How do these junior leagues afford the hockey costs?

I've always heard hockey is the most expensive youth sport and yet Canada and parts of the US (seemingly) have no issue forming leagues, finding players, funding equipment and travel costs, etc.

I just looked up how much it was to play hockey where I grew up. U18 registration (which is the most expensive) is $720. When you take into consideration things like hotel fees for tournaments, it can get expensive, but as far as I know, nothing like "elite soccer" which my friends are paying around $5000 per year for their sons...

 

[mazhar13]

How do these junior leagues afford the hockey costs?

I've always heard hockey is the most expensive youth sport and yet Canada and parts of the US (seemingly) have no issue forming leagues, finding players, funding equipment and travel costs, etc.

I just looked up how much it was to play hockey where I grew up. U18 registration (which is the most expensive) is $720. When you take into consideration things like hotel fees for tournaments, it can get expensive, but as far as I know, nothing like "elite soccer" which my friends are paying around $5000 per year for their sons...

Sadler provided the answer, but I'll offer some more background info.

Whilst ice hockey isn't cheap, it's deeply ingrained into the Canadian culture. Many families are happy to spend money on the equipment and have their children play the sport that they love and cherish. This is mostly the case in lesser-populated provinces & smaller cities (i.e. not Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, or Calgary). Coincidentally, those are also the most populated cities in Canada, and this is where I and several other Canadians have predicted the fall of ice hockey among future generations.

With more immigrants coming in and ice hockey getting more expensive, more kids are starting to get into basketball (due to the Raptors) or football. We are already seeing an influx of Canadians in the NBA; the same will happen in football if the CPL continues to grow. I predict that, eventually, ice hockey will not be the #1 sport for the majority of Canadians, and one of basketball or football will take its place.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Sadler provided the answer, but I'll offer some more background info.

Whilst ice hockey isn't cheap, it's deeply ingrained into the Canadian culture. Many families are happy to spend money on the equipment and have their children play the sport that they love and cherish. This is mostly the case in lesser-populated provinces & smaller cities (i.e. not Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, or Calgary). Coincidentally, those are also the most populated cities in Canada, and this is where I and several other Canadians have predicted the fall of ice hockey among future generations.

With more immigrants coming in and ice hockey getting more expensive, more kids are starting to get into basketball (due to the Raptors) or football. We are already seeing an influx of Canadians in the NBA; the same will happen in football if the CPL continues to grow. I predict that, eventually, ice hockey will not be the #1 sport for the majority of Canadians, and one of basketball or football will take its place.

I don't know about hockey ever becoming second to soccer/football, but the beautiful game is definitely growing. Another part of the problem however, is that while parents are more than willing to do whatever it takes for hockey (if their kid is good they think he will make the NHL and do whatever it takes to try and get there), they look at soccer as a fun sport to pass time in the offseason. As for the CPL, I hope it gets bigger, but it will never get as big as they want it to if there continues to be better guys playing in my local league than there are in the CPL. Like I said in my original post, the two local guys who play in the MLS now aren't the best players in this region, so how many others have slipped through the cracks...

 

[mazhar13]

I don't know about hockey ever becoming second to soccer/football, but the beautiful game is definitely growing. Another part of the problem however, is that while parents are more than willing to do whatever it takes for hockey (if their kid is good they think he will make the NHL and do whatever it takes to try and get there), they look at soccer as a fun sport to pass time in the offseason.

I agree. My statement was on the basis that the immigrants and Canadians with immigrant predecessors eventually become more prevalent in Canada and introduce a cultural shift. We're already starting to see this with basketball becoming way more popular than ever in Ontario.

As for the CPL, I hope it gets bigger, but it will never get as big as they want it to if there continues to be better guys playing in my local league than there are in the CPL. Like I said in my original post, the two local guys who play in the MLS now aren't the best players in this region, so how many others have slipped through the cracks...

It's all about the baby steps. They just finished their first season with some success. All of the clubs have a decent number of fans attend matches, and whilst clubs initially recruited just established professionals for the most part, there is some hope that they can obtain some of the talent that seems to slip by.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

I agree. My statement was on the basis that the immigrants and Canadians with immigrant predecessors eventually become more prevalent in Canada and introduce a cultural shift. We're already starting to see this with basketball becoming way more popular than ever in Ontario.

It's all about the baby steps. They just finished their first season with some success. All of the clubs have a decent number of fans attend matches, and whilst clubs initially recruited just established professionals for the most part, there is some hope that they can obtain some of the talent that seems to slip by.

I certainly hope they can find the talent that slips through the cracks. Mind you, I also think the mindset for Canadian soccer players needs to change too. Too many extremely talented players are content to just play with their buddies. But if it were hockey, they would go for it. I've played with and against some very talented players who were fine with just playing in our mens league. Even back when the CPSL had two local semi-pro teams with Club Roma and Niagara United, they would still play with the same team. I had teammates leave to play for the CPSL who weren't even the best players on my team. As far as I'm concerned, the top talent should be playing in the top leagues and I only wish I had the talent that some of these guys had who just didn't bother to do anything with that talent...

 

[edcunited1878]

Also, American athletes in the Big 4 sports - American Football, basketball, baseball, hockey....those are all eye hand coordination heavy sports. Football/soccer is eye foot/leg/head coordination.

Soccer doesn't require athletes or athletic individuals similar to baseball or golf. There's a lot of biomechanics and technique involved when properly kicking a ball that's waist high and you're trying to keep it below the crossbar from a crisp pass. You really don't see that refined technique in American Football or basketball because genetic makeup and athleticism can take you to the highest level with adequate technique.

 

[mazhar13]

I certainly hope they can find the talent that slips through the cracks. Mind you, I also think the mindset for Canadian soccer players needs to change too. Too many extremely talented players are content to just play with their buddies. But if it were hockey, they would go for it. I've played with and against some very talented players who were fine with just playing in our mens league. Even back when the CPSL had two local semi-pro teams with Club Roma and Niagara United, they would still play with the same team. I had teammates leave to play for the CPSL who weren't even the best players on my team. As far as I'm concerned, the top talent should be playing in the top leagues and I only wish I had the talent that some of these guys had who just didn't bother to do anything with that talent...

Yeah, I think more and more Canadians need to be given an assurance that they can sustain their life with football. The problem's that your average MLS player makes less than most white-collar jobs in Canada & the U.S., and leaving the continent is already a huge sacrifice in itself. Once again, the CPL may change things depending on how they do.

 

[NecssryEvil]

So they develop into great athletes and then they pick their sport? More like they develop into great athletes after chosing the sport. Never got this argument..

I am not sure that is what the poster meant, obviously you pretty much have to pick some sport to become a great athlete. However, when parents see their kid has some athletic ability they will tend to point them to one of the big 4. Also, while we all dream big, if they are being realistic, the idea isn't necessarily to become a pro athlete. @Gator Nate did an excellent rundown in that regard.

As has been stated elsewhere, there are a whole host of reasons, but I'll springboard off this question/post. Aside from the fact that, probably, the number 1 reason is that not enough Americans care about the game to do anything...

College (American) football and basketball programs nationwide, at multiple competition levels (NCAA divisions 1 and 2, NAIA, and at least one other), allow pretty much a full scholarship for every slot on the team, less so for baseball, but I'll address that. This is not the case for any other sport. For many parents, and kids, they see the best way to pay for college is to get a football or basketball scholarship, so that's where the emphasis goes. Additionally, the NFL has an age limit that pretty much guarantees an NCAA player will stay in school for three years, and the NBA's rule will at least get a college one year of service.

Amateur football is almost exclusively played at the high school (grades 9-12) and middle school (grades 6-8) levels. There are lower levels where skills are taught, but plenty of kids never start until they're in high school. It's from high schools where colleges get their talent, and from colleges where the NFL gets its talent. A significant percentage of the money that funds this system is public taxpayer-funded high schools, though private schools contribute their fair share.

Amateur basketball is played at all levels, but the real talent plays club ball. They may, and probably do, play high school ball as well, but that's not where the scouts are looking. Lots of time and money is spent at the club level on what I call "cannon fodder." Most club players won't play organized ball past high school. Some of them may go on to play small-college ball. A very few will play big-college and go on to the NBA. The "cannon fodder" exist only to give the stars games to showcase their talents and to pay the bills.

Baseball is interesting, because the best high school-age players get drafted and sent to MLB-affiliated minor league teams with the expectation of working their ways up to the Major League. Much like basketball, the real talent is developed and scouted in clubs outside of the high school structure. Still, lots of time and money is spent to develop players that will never make it.

Soccer, on the other hand, doesn't get the same respect. NCAA only allows division 1 mens' teams 9.9 scholarships (yes, that's partial) while women's teams get 12. Division 2 gets less. Not too much hope there, you play because you love it. And if you're looking for a scholarship, you'd better be really good, or you'd better play football or basketball.

In a way it's a shame because most won't make it to the pros in the sport they chose (canon fodder I think another poster called it), but maybe could have had they focused on a different one like soccer. I mean there are a crapton of kids that go to play american football that have no shot at making a living playing in the NFL but have the physique to have a better shot making a decent living playing soccer if they had the opportunity to develop in the college age range.

NCAA Participants	Approximate # Draft Eligible	# Draft Picks	# NCAA Drafted	% NCAA to Major Pro	% NCAA to Total Pro
Baseball	36,011	8,002	1,217	791	9.9%	--
M Basketball	18,816	4,181	60	52	1.2%	21%
W Basketball	16,509	3,669	36	31	0.8%	6.9%
Football	73,712	16,380	254	254	1.6%	--
M Ice Hockey	4,323	961	217	71	7.4%	--

 

[Gator Nate]

I am not sure that is what the poster meant, obviously you pretty much have to pick some sport to become a great athlete. However, when parents see their kid has some athletic ability they will tend to point them to one of the big 4. Also, while we all dream big, if they are being realistic, the idea isn't necessarily to become a pro athlete. @Gator Nate did an excellent rundown in that regard.





In a way it's a shame because most won't make it to the pros in the sport they chose (canon fodder I think another poster called it), but maybe could have had they focused on a different one like soccer. I mean there are a crapton of kids that go to play american football that have no shot at making a living playing in the NFL but have the physique to have a better shot making a decent living playing soccer if they had the opportunity to develop in the college age range.

NCAA Participants	Approximate # Draft Eligible	# Draft Picks	# NCAA Drafted	% NCAA to Major Pro	% NCAA to Total Pro
Baseball	36,011	8,002	1,217	791	9.9%	--
M Basketball	18,816	4,181	60	52	1.2%	21%
W Basketball	16,509	3,669	36	31	0.8%	6.9%
Football	73,712	16,380	254	254	1.6%	--
M Ice Hockey	4,323	961	217	71	7.4%	--

I'm surprised nearly 10% of college players go to the pros.

It gets even worse in basketball and football due to body types. In many high schools, particularly "smaller" schools, the biggest kid on the basketball team is the center. In fact, you can pretty much line up a high school basketball team by height, and the tallest five, barring substandard ability, are center, forward, forward, guard, guard. Most of the time, the center is not tall enough to play forward at the next level. But he learns the skills of a center, and not those of a forward, so he's behind the curve for the next level of ball. Same happens in football, where the biggest kids get put on the line, even if they're build for the backfield. (I had a relative that was perfectly built for a safety, but being the second biggest kid on the team, got stuck on the line at guard.)

But most of them would be easily slotted into nearly any position on the soccer field, where body type is far less an issue.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Also in the vast majority of America, football & handegg have concurrent seasons - more or less eliminating the bulk of the top athletes.

Indeed

 

[jb8521]

Actually forgot about him but he’s another example. This kid was an attacking midfielder though and I recall it being mentioned in the youth section here back then. @khoazany or @jb8521 might remember it.

Nick Taitague, he's at Schalke now

 

[NecssryEvil]

I'm surprised nearly 10% of college players go to the pros.

It gets even worse in basketball and football due to body types. In many high schools, particularly "smaller" schools, the biggest kid on the basketball team is the center. In fact, you can pretty much line up a high school basketball team by height, and the tallest five, barring substandard ability, are center, forward, forward, guard, guard. Most of the time, the center is not tall enough to play forward at the next level. But he learns the skills of a center, and not those of a forward, so he's behind the curve for the next level of ball. Same happens in football, where the biggest kids get put on the line, even if they're build for the backfield. (I had a relative that was perfectly built for a safety, but being the second biggest kid on the team, got stuck on the line at guard.)

But most of them would be easily slotted into nearly any position on the soccer field, where body type is far less an issue.

10% of baseball players, football and basketball drag that total way down. Sorry, something screwed up when I copy/pasted the table and the headers adjusted somehow. Didn't notice until you replied. Here is the link if anyone is interested in more details. http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/research/estimated-probability-competing-professional-athletics

	NCAA Participants	Approximate # Draft Eligible	# Draft Picks	# NCAA Drafted	% NCAA to Major Pro	% NCAA to Total Pro
Baseball	36,011​	8,002​	1,217​	791​	9.90%​	--
M Basketball	18,816​	4,181​	60​	52​	1.20%​	21%​
W Basketball	16,509​	3,669​	36​	31​	0.80%​	6.90%​
Football	73,712​	16,380​	254​	254​	1.60%​	--
M Ice Hockey	4,323​	961​	217​	71​	7.40%​	--

I also think it is telling that the NCAA chose not to include soccer on their list (despite having a college draft of their own) but did include women's basketball. Shows you, unfortunately, where the game ranks in their minds.

 

[Gator Nate]

10% of baseball players, football and basketball drag that total way down. Sorry, something screwed up when I copy/pasted the table and the headers adjusted somehow. Didn't notice until you replied. Here is the link if anyone is interested in more details. http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/research/estimated-probability-competing-professional-athletics

	NCAA Participants	Approximate # Draft Eligible	# Draft Picks	# NCAA Drafted	% NCAA to Major Pro	% NCAA to Total Pro
Baseball	36,011​	8,002​	1,217​	791​	9.90%​	--
M Basketball	18,816​	4,181​	60​	52​	1.20%​	21%​
W Basketball	16,509​	3,669​	36​	31​	0.80%​	6.90%​
Football	73,712​	16,380​	254​	254​	1.60%​	--
M Ice Hockey	4,323​	961​	217​	71​	7.40%​	--

I also think it is telling that the NCAA chose not to include soccer on their list (despite having a college draft of their own) but did include women's basketball. Shows you, unfortunately, where the game ranks in their minds.

Baseball also has a gazillion rounds to their draft, but they take a lot of high school players.

As for soccer, how many teams really want a 22-year-old coming out of college? There's actually word that MLS has discussed discontinuing the draft. They'd be better off taking an 18-year-old out of high school or signing a 22-year-old out of Europe or Mexico. Or developing them at an academy.

 

[FootballHQ]

US national team always feels ripe for an experienced manager to come in and develop them for a 4 year cycle. They tried it with Klinsmann which was hit and miss and surprised in recent times they've gone back to bog standard American choices like Bruce Arena for a second spell which was a disaster and now choosing Gregg Berhalter who I presume will be in until 2022.

You look back to 2010 which imo was the strongest squad they've sent to a world cup given Howard, Bocanegra, Onyewu, DaMarcus Beasley, Clint Dempsey and Donovan were all in the 28-31 age range (and Bradley Jr was 22 and up and coming) and it felt underwhelming them going out in last 16 to Ghana basically due to Bob Bradley shoehorning everyone into a inflexible 4-4-2 (remember Slovenia ripping through that first half).

As an aside I was browsing Redcafe back then and remembering some of the American posters going on and on about a midfielder called Torres. Way they talked he was a cross between Xavi and Pirlo. Interesting seeing him in that squad and he just played all his career in the Mexican league. Anyway....

Seemed they flirted with Van Gaal a few years back but he chose to retirement. Surprised they couldn't attract Gus Hiddink when he was doing his tour of international teams a while ago.

Does feel an attractive international job considering the MLS continues to improve, great lifestyle and you'll have likes of Pulisic and Reyna in mid to late 20s when 2026 comes around so the USA could possibly get past the last 16 with a kind draw.

 

[MrMarcello]

Torres was the lone midfielder that had the ability to control the ball and dribble around/away from pressure. The rest of the mids just lumped up forward/lateral or played it back. He also had a pretty good left foot.

Holden was another starlet that could do similar but injuries ruined him shortly after the WC.

 

[FootballHQ]

Just looking at current US squad and my word it's stacked with incredibly promising players under the age of 25. Most of them are at elite clubs in europe already compared to good players they've had in the past who'd taken a while to get over to europe e.g Landon Donovan.

In their squad for the match v Wales are:

Sergino Dest (Barca)- 20
Chris Richards (Bayern Munich)- 20
Weston McKennie (Juve)- 22
Tyler Adams (RB Leipzig)- 21
Yunus Musah (Valencia)- 17
Pulisic (Chelsea)- 22
Gio Reyna- (Dortmund)- 17
Kondra de la Fuente (Barca)- 19

That's not a bad young spine to work with at all. Could do with decent CB coming through but lots of quality in midfield and attack. Has the feel of Belgium a decade ago when their current 11 were all and similar ages and already emerging in good leagues.

Can see US doing well at 2026 world cup when many of them will be mid 20s, last 8 potential I think.